First and foremost, I wanted to emphasize that I was born a statesman (or statesperson if you want to break the gender binary and be politically correct), thus I am more interested in solutions than opinions. Lately, however, I've been caught up in the argument of pornography (and prostitution) in regards to feminism. So, with that, I wanted to get your opinions on said issue.
What follows is an argument for both sides: the 2nd-wave anti-porn feminists, and the 3rd-wave pro-sex feminists.
Regarding the objectification of women, 2nd-wave feminists argue that women are all linked via gender - the subjugated gender under patriarchy, and thus have shared interests as one. As such, what one woman chooses to do has an effect on another woman. As such, a woman who chooses pornography as a career affects other women in that while she might feel empowered by her choices, other women are viewed as sex objects as the indirect result of her presenting herself as such. For these feminists, feminism isn't just being able to do what you want, but rather, doing what is good for ALL women.
Another argument from 2nd-wave, anti-porn feminists is that while women are given economical autonomy through sex work, they are still seen as objects in the eyes of men, rather than complete and whole people. To further complicate matters, the issue of international sex trade also comes into question. That is: while sex work may prove lucrative for some, for others, it's not a choice. Even when the choice is made freely, many second-wave feminists argue, it's not really a choice, because women do not have the same economic autonomy as men. Because of that, the 2nd-wave feminist argues that the power is false power, hidden behind economic gain.
For the 3rd-wave feminist, the basis of feminism is self-empowerment and choice. If a woman so chooses to be a sex worker, she should be able to do such without judgment under patriarchy, because she is her own person and able to make her own choice. Further, unlike 2nd-wave feminists, 3rd-wavers do not assume that feminism is the same for all women, and that all women face the same plight. Thus, what is correct for a woman at a certain place in her life may not be correct for another woman. Further, 3rd-wave feminism believes in the power of reclaiming one's body, celebrating one's sexuality and being able negotiate the public sphere without fear of patriarchy. In sum, 3rd-wave feminism is about the individual, rather than the collective, and because of that, women are encouraged to pursue what they want. Rather than basing their arguments on theories, 3rd-wave feminists focus on the reality - instead of talking about the moralities of sex work, 3rd-wave feminists talk about sex workers' rights. Rather than rejecting concepts of beauty, which 2nd-wavers may see as a sign of seeking male approval, 3rd-wavers embrace such, not for the patriarchy, but for themselves.
I am torn, really - I can see the views of both the 2nd and 3d-wave. I can understand where both camps are coming from. But I can't make a decision. I can also see the link between pornography and rape; yet, I also see the link between the legalization of prostitution and a decrease in rape cases. Throw feminist theories of power and the intersections of gender, race, and class into it, and I am as confused as a Unitarian at a religious convention.
I suppose my place in feminism isn't to make that decision. As an aspiring politician, my place is to provide those who I fight for with the most opportunities, so those who do not wish to engage in sex work do not have to, but those who do can do so in safe environments. I am not making a stand on sex workers, and it seems wrong. After all, not only am I an activist, I am a scholar. I should be able to make up my mind.
One last question: do you think the things we enjoy sexually are a product of pornography, or is pornography merely a representation of our desires?
What are your thoughts?
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I don't know enough about all the distinctions between waves, but based on your synopsis, I think feminist men should try to adopt the third wave perspective as much as possible.
"As such, what one woman chooses to do has an effect on another woman. As such, a woman who chooses pornography as a career affects other women in that while she might feel empowered by her choices, other women are viewed as sex objects as the indirect result of her presenting herself as such." When this perspective is adopted by men in particular, I can see the potential for victim blaming since what an individual woman chooses to do is perceived as an endorsement of a representation of gender. Again, I need to be more familiar with the waves, but the first of your descriptions seemed to say to me in much nicer words, "Women shouldn't be sex workers because prostitutes perpetuate the slut role." What is important for men to see is that this statement completely neglects the responsibility of men and is focused on what women need to do to protect themselves from the scrutiny and pigeonholing of patriarchy and hegemonic masculinity. If we're talking about sex work and its effect on patriarchy, we have to remember that men are a crucial part of the discussion.
Men benefit from patriarchy and generally are the agents in gendered relations (and sex work is almost always incredibly gendered). Men should be talking about what men should be doing in regards to sex work, not what women are doing. We know patriarchy exists, but instead of expecting women to work around patriarchy and minimize the effects of it through limiting personal choice, isn't it more just to expect men, the traditional agents, to take responsibility as a group (and individually) to challenge prejudices that would stigmatize a particular woman's choice?
"One last question: do you think the things we enjoy sexually are a product of pornography, or is pornography merely a representation of our desires?"
I think pornography is a representation of our fantasies. I think that's why there are so many types of porn out there, a different kind to suit each type of fantasy. Although, I think that no matter what type of porn was out there, somebody would buy it.
Personally, I find porn to be a bit strange because it's just watching other people have sex.
I don't see a point in it when we can have the real thing. It's a compulsive thing or something.
When your life is about to end it's not like we are going to be like 'Oh wow I wish I would have spent more time looking at internet porn, instead of fucking my significant other'. Hehehe.
On this issue I am firmly in the third wave. Complete liberation for women will only happen when a woman can be the no make up hairy legged separatist lesbian, or the conventionally beautiful stay at home mom, without judgment. Women's lives are too complicated to be universalized the way 2nd wavers like to do.
As to your question at the end... For my generation (I'm 23) I think it's a blend. I do agree with the 2nd wave perspective on the pornification of society. I think many of us grow up with a certain perspective influenced by that. As a result I think we are somewhat conditioned by porn, and also somewhat influential in what porn gets made. I also agree with the 2nd wavers that pornification is not really a good thing. And I really have to bemoan the lack of authentic and healthy sexual identities and practices that we see growing up. I do think as feminists we really need to work towards fixing that disparity.
I think that making blanket judgments on pornography as a whole is inappropriate. There are porn sites/videos that are degrading to women and there are others that advertise their videos as "never degrading, never disgusting" and they try to keep it somehow respectable.
Re: do you think the things we enjoy sexually are a product of pornography, or is pornography merely a representation of our desires?
I can't speak for anyone else but I can say this. My own personal sexual wants and needs arose long before I ever saw or wanted to see pornograpy. The non-vanilla desires I developed, came from experiences with one of my early lovers (at about 20 y.o.), and had nothing to do with any porn I may have been exposed to up to that point. Now (at 28) that I've been exposed to much more porn, I can honestly say that it hasn't made me want to do anything.
I know an individual who is two years younger than I am. When he was about 12 I noticed he was using the internet for porn and saving it on disc (oh, 1994!). It was more like nude photographs --titty pics-- than porn, btw. I guess his dad talked to him and he either stopped or learned discretion. Anyway fastforward a dozen years and he's completely normal from what I can tell. His first real girlfriend stayed around for five years, and he's on his second girlfriend. He's had at most a few other sexual partners. I know his gf and his exgf as friends and they assure me that he's a good lover. I've found his girlfriend's sexy corset accidentally, but I've never found anything remotely disturbing in his room/apt -- ever. He's 100% sexually normal despite an early desire for (tame) porn.
In sum, early exposure to pornographic images does not necessarily cause some given person to "go bad." Avoidance of pornography and does not cause some given person to stay vanilla.
If you are concerned for your sons and daughters growing up normal sexually I'd suggest a typical "good family" formula. Give a kid morally upright parents, role models of each gender, siblings or cousins to be close to, encourage them with schoolwork, sports, and creative pursuits, and you'll wind up with a well adjusted adult. It's not rocket science.
The second half of the question is a whole other story. Pornography is not a representation of MY desires. Like any other creative work such as a shoe commercial or the most obtuse European cinema, any given piece of pornography is a product of what the artist/author wanted to say, and what their producers let them say. The porn that is available easily (Hustler, RedTube) is what the industry has decided people are willing to pay for. I think most of the visual porn I can find is at best marginally erotic, and I really need to check out the "never degrading" stuff whatsername mentioned.
As for others, I think "you are what you eat" can become true under certain circumstances. Furious masturbation and an absence of a partner over a long period of time could certainly give a guy --especially younger, less experienced ones-- a very distorted and quite honestly destructive view of what's hot.
Just the other day I was beginning to enjoy a porno but the guy started doing switching anal to vaginal penetration, back and forth, back and forth. I've never suffered the consequences of such behavior but watching it made me think of, and only of, nasty vaginal infections.
It is certainly possible that a porn-saturated individual could begin a relationship expecting it to go just like it goes in the movies. (And indeed, many MANY women enter into romances half expecting all the trappings of the sweetest romantic movies.) The worst scenario would be if such a person was in a relationship with someone who had little or no sexual experience themselves. A misled person and a doormat spells disaster in the form of at least one person is going home unsatisfied.
I always thought good sex was had if both people end the encounter happy and satisfied. All the porn I've seen the woman looks bored and the man looks stressed out. I guess if people are dumb and think that's good sex, I can't do anything about that. I tell you what though, I'm not going to date them!
"and I really need to check out the "never degrading" stuff whatsername mentioned."
Show some courtesy and look up my name.
Steven, I'm fairly certain they simply confused you for me, since we both commented here. ;)