I'll second that Fuck You.

I'm really glad you put that jerk in his place, I'm sure it must have been hard with a room full of pro-lifers. Hopefully, your words will resonate with atleast one of those ignorant fools.

PS Do you go to a Catholic school or something? Not that that would make Mr. Chambers' behavior acceptable, but I could not imagine a teacher being able to say things like that in a public school. You should check in your student handbook to see if there is some way you could report him.

I think you did a pretty good job keeping your cool under his condescension and misconceptions. I always get stressed under these situations and come across as whiny.

And yeah, I third that Fuck You.

I can't decide if this guy is a liar or just phenomenally stupid, but either way, good on you for standing your ground. I hope something awful falls on him.

I'd like to know if you go to a Catholic school too. If not, that was almost certainly in violation of some sort of rule and I would take action. Misinformation about sex, abortion, and sexual assault should only be spread around through sex ed, not history classes.

That last sentence was a joke, of course.

A professor at a public school could absolutely get away with saying that. College professors - with or without tenure, public or private - have a lot of latitude in the context of class discussion. If one were to lodge a formal complaint against him, he would most likely claim that he was playing devil's advocate, blah blah blah.

I'm going to keep this one in my file and break it out the next time I hear some conservative blowhard complain that academia has been taken over by progressives. Sheesh.

It's sounds like this was in high school, right? Because she said teacher and referred to him as Mr. So in that case, unless it was a private religious school (making assumptions about their practices) there should be some recourse. Could you file a complaint with the principal? Maybe talk to a more progressive teacher at the school about it? I would also write to the dean and the chair of the department if it is at a college. At least he might refrain from future anti-choice babel or be forced to issue an apology. I have had my share with dealing with jackass professors and wonder how one can be so stupid and have tenure.

Hold on until college, girl. It gets a lot better as long as you don't somehow get packed off to fundie hell like Liberty or Bob Jones. You'll only have to put up with your teachers' bullshit for a little while longer.

I am just amazed that people Mr. Chambers manage to hang onto their jobs.

Wow. What the fuck.

I honestly encourage you to complain formally to someone about this guy - a principal, the school board. Write some letters. I would not let behavior and speech like that from a school authority figure go unnoticed. This entire situation, it seems to me, was completely inappropriate and disrespectful and, I would argue, even hateful toward women who have ever suffered rape or had to carry a rapist's baby - not just in America, but around the world. What a Eurocentric thing to claim that "rape doesn't happen anymore." (And not really, even, because rape is still rampant in America and Europe.) But all one has to do is go to any militarily volatile place in the world and s/he will see rape occurring in massive numbers.

As an educator myself, I find this educator's comments disgusting and a total disgrace to the profession and teachers' abilities to listen and encourage critical thinking.

Please, for me and for yourself, complain about this teacher.

gah!

complain - seriously. this is total crap, and not behaviour you should have to put up with. he's a HISTORY teacher, FFS. is he completely unaware of what's going on in the Congo right now?

I agree with everyone telling you to complain. When I was in high school I filed a complaint about a sexist teacher (he wasn't my teacher but I had to deal with him everyday making comments to me and other girls who did weight lifting PE instead of general PE which got very rude). Have someone who was in the class with you to vouch for what you said. and do it as soon as possible. The more time you waste the less credible your story is going to sound. Write it as a letter to your principal and the school broad that way it can't just be washed away by your school. And keep sending it until you get attention. If they don't give you attention find a way to go to the media about it. Sexist pigs like that have no place to teach students about anything. Good luck.

totally Fuck You to this "teacher" what an ass!

I had a summer class at UCONN years ago with a similer sort of teacher, it made me fucking nuts for weeks. he told us that homosexuality is a morally wrong as murder, and when I asked about a married hetero couple using birth control, he lumped it under sexual behavors like beastality.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this fuit cake.

There is a correct point of view that he must follow as a teacher in a public institution. Certainly he is promoting a social evil if he does not follow the popular line of thinking. Only a social reprobate would believe that an unexpectedly conceived fetus is in it's innocence not actually capable of taking it's mother prisoner, but is just an innocent victim, and should not be scraped from the womb unceremoniously. Of course he should be reported. There are proper ways to address his particular kind of thought crime. Send him to reprogramming immediately!

You would deny him his freedom of speech, so that you may have freedom from being offended?

allegra commented at July 23, 2008 6:30 PM: "What a Eurocentric thing to claim that 'rape doesn't happen anymore.' (And not really, even, because rape is still rampant in America and Europe.) But all one has to do is go to any militarily volatile place in the world and s/he will see rape occurring in massive numbers."

Not only Eurocentric but just plain wrong, the same way claiming that, say, dolphins are fish is wrong. Rape does still happen, dolphins are not fish, etc. Those are facts.

womanofabomination commented at July 24, 2008 12:38 AM: "Of course he should be reported. There are proper ways to address his particular kind of thought crime. Send him to reprogramming immediately!"

Lemme guess, you think that it's no worse for a math teacher to teach the class "the square root of 144 is 15" than to teach the class "the square root of 144 is 12" and that the people hiring the teacher should have no preference either. After all, both statements are speech...

I believe the teacher was rational, and discussing facts, not opinion. The instances of pregnancy that result from rape these days are rare in comparison to the rates due to poor choices. Imagine if you flipped that number on it's head and said most unwanted pregnancies are the result of rape. He also believed that rape wasn't a "valid excuse" for abortion.

So he thinks babies should be allowed to come to full term and live, even if they were conceived in violence. Honestly, what's so vile about that?

Sure he offended her. That doesn't mean he is factually wrong. He disagrees, and doesn't place as much importance on her feminist ideals. That doesn't make him a pig either.

In a public institution, shutting someone up and not allowing him to teach a valid point of view that may be deemed unpopular is fascist by it's very definition.

womanofabomination commented July 24, 2008 9:06 AM

I believe the teacher was rational, and discussing facts, not opinion. The instances of pregnancy that result from rape these days are rare in comparison to the rates due to poor choices. Imagine if you flipped that number on it's head and said most unwanted pregnancies are the result of rape. He also believed that rape wasn't a "valid excuse" for abortion.

So he thinks babies should be allowed to come to full term and live, even if they were conceived in violence. Honestly, what's so vile about that?

Sure he offended her. That doesn't mean he is factually wrong. He disagrees, and doesn't place as much importance on her feminist ideals. That doesn't make him a pig either.

This is utterly ridiculous. What is the point of being such a troll? Don't you have better things to do with your time?

You say that the teacher was rational and "discussing facts." Well, maybe you failed to notice, but he didn't say what you're trying to make us believe he said, he said "Rape is so much less common now-a-days and women almost never get pregnant by a rapist." Right, that's SO FACTUAL.

Rape is extremely common, even in America. And I'd like to see these numbers of yours that say more unwanted pregnancies are caused by "poor choices" than rape (on a side note, a lot of those "poor choices" wouldn't be so poor if teenagers were taught factual things about birth control). Where are you finding this information? I haven't been able to find it. And even if that is the case, as Emily asked, "are you saying that its ok for even one woman to be forced to carry the pregnancy caused by her rapist to term? Is it ok as long as it doesn't affect 'that many' people?"

I never said rape was uncommon, simply that the rate of unwanted pregnancies due to rape in this country are far outnumbered by unwanted pregnancies due to other reasons, and yes, poor life choices. I discuss these issues often with a girlfriend of mine who is a nurse in an abortion clinic. There are so many women that have access to birth control through her office and yet come in regularly for abortions. Is rape much less common nowadays? Who really knows. Is rape a valid excuse? That's reasonably up for fair debate in our society.

I'm not a troll trying here with the intent of pushing people's buttons. I just think calling for his head is extreme and smacks of thought control. We just shouldn't use Nineteen-Eighty-Four tactics to squelch debate in a free country.

I never said rape was uncommon, simply that the rate of unwanted pregnancies due to rape in this country are far outnumbered by unwanted pregnancies due to other reasons, and yes, poor life choices.

And you have a cite for this? And who gets to decide what "poor life choices" are?

Is rape a valid excuse? That's reasonably up for fair debate in our society.

But that's the thing: Women don't NEED an excuse for an abortion. And who's doing this "excusing" for abortions? They're legal and women are able to have them if they want.

I just think calling for his head is extreme and smacks of thought control.

No one here is interested in what he thinks. What we're upset about is his unprofessionalism. It is his job to teach students facts about history. According to this post, he's not only grossly mistaken in his facts, but he's preaching students his opinions. That's not what school is for. We'd be just as outraged if he was spreading lies and opinions about the mental deficiencies of racial minorities. He's allowed to believe what he wants in that area, too, but there is a line of professionalism when it comes to sharing opinions (I have a lot of teaching experience), and he definitely has crossed it. I've only seen advocating for the original poster to let his supervisors know about it.

So he thinks babies should be allowed to come to full term and live, even if they were conceived in violence. Honestly, what's so vile about that?

You're forgetting just one eenesy-weensey problem with that: in order for those fetuses to come to term and be born, a woman's body is needed for nine months. What you don't seem to understand is that by making abortion illegal or inaccessible, you are essentially forcing women to remain pregnant and give birth against their will.

Thinking a child should live is not unprofessional. Neither is it unprofessional for a teacher to express a commonly held opinion. I don't see how he crossed a line in discussing this point of view. It is no different than a teacher who supports the idea of readily accessible abortion, and speaks at length about it framed within the context of feminist history. If he sends his students out to rally for his cause or he punishes his students for having an opposing point of view and arguing the point, that's another story.

Equating pro-life beliefs with racist ones is simply intellectually dishonest. Racism comes from a cruel place. Most of the time pro-life and pro-choice positions are borne from natural human empathy children and mothers. This teacher sees all abortion as killing a baby and finds it morally unjustified. The math doesn't matter to him. The thought of children dying troubles him deeply. Should that really earn him a Fuck You and a mark on his record?

I don't remember ever promoting the idea of making abortion illegal or inaccessible. I simply stated that it is within the realm of rational debate to question whether one can claim moral justification for aborting a child even one conceived from a rape. It's an entirely moral question not a legal one. The law is the law, and we as individuals choose whether we are going to make use of it.

A person who is truly pro-choice would allow this teacher his pro-life sentiments.

A person who is truly pro-choice would allow this teacher his pro-life sentiments.

Nobody's saying he can't believe what he wants. But as an authority figure in a room full of minors he shouldn't be propagating lies or attempting to influence their viewpoints. If he wants to talk about abortion or feminism, it should've been from a balanced, historical perspective, not a "pro-life" one.

Why not a pro-life position? Why not attempt to influence viewpoints? Why not make Emily mad? It seemed to do some good. She got to express her opinion, the class heard it. Maybe many more agreed with her than she thought. She handled herself well.

What about balance? Isn't the expression of the pro-life viewpoint within the arena of history?

I would say that it's very difficult to teach and take a position contrary to the very core of your beliefs. If you believe abortion is child murder, then you obviously have some very strong convictions. Seems it would literally hurt to say that you're fine with it just to save your job. It would be unfair to require that of him.

Thinking a child should live is not unprofessional.

A fetus is not a child.

Neither is it unprofessional for a teacher to express a commonly held opinion.

It absolutely is when he expresses it in front of a captive audience (as in they're not allowed to leave). A history teacher is not a preacher in a pulpit. He is supposed to give students facts to learn, not propaganda and opinion. As an authority figure, he's abusing the fact that students must listen to him and give weight to what he says (as they might be tested on it). That is the epitome of unprofessionalism from an educator. He is not doing his job by preaching when he should be giving facts (and, no, saying that women aren't raped very often and don't get pregnant by rapists are statements that take mere seconds to verify as wrong). He's a bad teacher if that's what he's teaching in history and should maybe rethink a career as a religious leader, if that's what he wants.

It is no different than a teacher who supports the idea of readily accessible abortion, and speaks at length about it framed within the context of feminist history.

I would have a problem if this same teacher spread falsehoods, too. The difference is, according to the OP, the teacher didn't frame anti-abortion statements within the context of feminist history. Instead, he made the classroom his own sounding board for his opinions, which is unprofessional.

Equating pro-life beliefs with racist ones is simply intellectually dishonest.

Not really. They're both opinions people have that aren't illegal, nor should they be. And people should have free speech to express those opinions, but not to captive audiences who have neither the ability to leave nor the authority to speak back.

Racism comes from a cruel place.

In my experience, so does anti-abortion opinions.

Most of the time pro-life and pro-choice positions are borne from natural human empathy children and mothers.

In my experience, pro choice positions are also borne of natural human empathy towards children and mothers.

This teacher sees all abortion as killing a baby and finds it morally unjustified. The math doesn't matter to him. The thought of children dying troubles him deeply. Should that really earn him a Fuck You and a mark on his record?

When he brings it up in a history class with a captive audience of students who do not feel that they have the authority to disagree with him, yes. What he is doing is unprofessional within a history class discussion of feminist history. His teaching record should reflect that.

A person who is truly pro-choice would allow this teacher his pro-life sentiments.

They can have all the sentiments they want. However, it's unprofessional to express them in front of a captive audience who rely on teachers for grades, recommendation letters, and for factual information to help them in life. He can say and think whatever he likes outside of the classroom. As a teacher, though, he must remain neutral and present the facts while class is in session.

Why not a pro-life position?

Because his job is not to give students the talking points of the anti abortion or the pro choice agenda. His job is to teach them history.

Why not attempt to influence viewpoints?

That isn't his job, either. He's an educator, not a preacher or religious leader. He should change professions if he wants to influence morality instead of students' education.

Why not make Emily mad?

Because she is a student powerless to stand up to him in the context of the classroom. Yes, she got to make her points, but within the context of the classroom, their opinions were not considered equal. He had her at a disadvantage with his authority and she was angry because of it.

Maybe many more agreed with her than she thought.

Yet they didn't speak up. Wonder why.

If you believe abortion is child murder, then you obviously have some very strong convictions.

If you believe that it isn't child murder, you also have equally strong convictions. That you agree with them does not make them stronger.

Seems it would literally hurt to say that you're fine with it just to save your job. It would be unfair to require that of him.

He isn't required to give an opinion contrary to his own. In fact, that's my point! He should save his opinions, no matter what they are, for after class. He should stick to facts. I've managed to have dozens of discussions (yes, even on abortion) in my classes, yet never once did I prosthetize my beliefs. Not a single student would have been able to deduce my own personal politics from that discussion because it was not my job to give my own opinion, only to encourage students to develop their own based upon facts.

Also, I notice you still haven't found a citation for your claims.

ElleStar commented on July 24, 2008 6:26 PM: "Seems it would literally hurt to say that you're fine with it just to save your job. It would be unfair to require that of him.

"He isn't required to give an opinion contrary to his own. In fact, that's my point! He should save his opinions, no matter what they are, for after class."

Exactly! This boils down to "seems it would literally hurt to do his job just to save his job."

Likewise, if you want to tell your audiences about your deeply held sociopolitical opinions so much that it hurts to utter facts about math instead, you shouldn't expect to keep a math teaching job and you should look for another line of work.

I was unaware that I was under a directive to cite sources. And the math is not my point so don't take this as a see I told you so.

My point is you are always going to be exposed to teachers' world views, especially in history or sociology classes.

http://www.abortionno.org/Resources/fastfacts.html

93% social reasons

1% rape or incest.

MiriamCT,

if you don't mind me asking, who was the professor? I currently go to UCONN myself and would like to stay away from him...

I find because I'm defending his freedom to express a pro-life opinion in a classroom without risking his job somehow makes me anti-choice. There's no need to argue abortion with me. I am pro-choice, I'm just not flip about it, and I don't fool myself about what it actually is so that I can face myself in the mirror.

I does appear that he was reading the statistics I read, and used them as a basis for his argument. He's hardly "propagating lies". He did nothing indecent that would damage anybody.

Ellestar,

If you read my quote correctly I was stating that pro-choice and pro-life beliefs come from empathy towards mothers and children. So we agree.

I understand people just want to be angry and call for his blood.

A similar thing happened to my class during an abortion debate. My teacher called me a feminazi--I will say he might have done so jokingly, but either way, I didn't appreciate this misrepresentation of my views.

This teacher is also running for representation in the state of Texas. I'd link his web site, but the last thing I want is a shitstorm. Here's an excerpt from his "Issues" page:

"I’ll be a staunch defender of preserving our traditional moral values that make Texas such a great place to raise a family. I am unafraid to affirm my strong conservative convictions and will be a stalwart defender of the unborn, fighting for legislation to protect their unalienable right to life. I believe that marriage is an essential institution that exists only between a man and woman."

Stay classy (and tolerant)!