Amazing that a health care professional feels like he can get away with that shit. Good for you for going back and telling your doctor. The guy should be disciplined and probably fired.

Good for you for going back and talking to the doctor about that nurse. One would assume that misogynistic jerks wouldn't work in ob/gyn offices-sigh- not much we can do about that though.

I work in a medical setting as a sign language interpreter and I’ve interpreted countless ob/gyn appointments and what that nurse said to you is total bull shit. Also just as a patient if you’re not comfortable with a nurse or doctor you can ask to see someone else. It’s your health, it’s important to advocate for yourself, because we know the misogynistic asshole nurse won’t.

I can't believe this guy thought he could treat you like that! And this is the same problem with abstinence only education. He's going to tell this stuff to some poor woman and she'll stop using condoms because they don't work on the big stuff so what's the point of badgering her partner to put one on? A medical professional should be giving accurate and helpful information, and not judging the patients!

I'm glad you made the point about women and men sexually and how if women were chaste like the nurse said, men would have no partners. There's so much contradictory bullshit in this kind of sexism, if anyone thought about it they'd realize how stupid it was.

Good grief. I think I'd have reported him to more than the doctor. Sorry you had to go through this.

if men can have sex and women cannot, who are the men having sex with

If he believes that it's okay for men to shag like bunnies but not for women to, presumably he should be all in favour of male homosexuality. But somehow I doubt it.

That is SUCH crap; props for going back in. I think a lot of people (me included!) are shocked and silent during a situation like that, but way to take a breather and deal with it on your terms.

What upsets me a lot about that is, don't they market Gardasil to younger "tween" girls now, before they start having sex? I just looked on the Gardasil website, and yeah, they market it to parents "If your daughter isn't old enough to choose Gardasil for herself." Some poor 11-year-old girl probably got that lecture from that nurse and has no background/knowledge to know it was wrong. :-(

WTF?!!!!!!

“Women shouldn’t have sex like men. You’re in college, you know what some women are doing….If he’s not Mr. Right, then why are you with him anyways?”

WHAT? Because men are immune to Stds? Because men don't have to be responsible for their sexual and emotional health and the sexual and emotional health of their partners?

GAH.

UGH! I'm so sorry that happened to you and I'm so glad you posted here! It must have felt good to type all that shit out and tell the world how completely wrong that guy is. You rock!

The idea of medical professionals not pushing condoms as the BEST way to prevent STDs and HIV outside of abstinence is just ridiculous. It says right there on the package! It's been proven! They work!

Please tell me that nurse got fired? Even better, please let me that he got his license revoked (though, I highly doubt it since the gov't OKs giving young women incorrect and potentially harmful advice so long as it keeps they chaste for longer...)

I know how hard it is to talk back to someone who is in such an authoritative position. And most young women aren't as strong-willed and well-informed as you are, so it's sad to imagine what their trips to the OB/GYN office are like.

Becca-
Not to mention that there is supposedly legislation in some states (or localities, I'm not sure) designed to FORCE girls to have this shot--like you are required to have tetanus immunizations.

Seeing this reminds me of an article I saw in The St. Louis Review a few years ago about two male ob/gyns. The article praised the heck out of the a**holes because they both chose the field primarily because of their pro-life stances.

I bet the sexist nurse purposely chose ob/gyn because he wants to use his position of power over female patients to make choices for them. He probably thinks he's doing making the world a better place by "educating" women with his lies.

Thanks everyone for your support. This post has only been up one day and already so many responses! You don't know how happy it makes me to read everything you have to say.

I wanted to let you all know that this nurse was not fired. I know that my doctor was very concerned about what was said and wanted to handle the situation immediately, but I really highly doubt the nurse was fired. But also, the doctor made it clear that if I was comfortable with continuing going to the practice, I wouldn't see anyone but him, he would personally be in charge of my care. He was very understanding about that.

So sorry for your situation. It's doubly (or quadruply) frustrating because not only is it a power/control manipulation by a healthcare provider to a patient - in itself disturbing enough - but it's also a man talking down to you and trying to tell you what to do with your sexuality.

I had a similar experience with a male doctor who, when my normal doc was out, had to do my annual pap. He assumed I couldn't possibly know anything about my own anatomy, sexuality or sexual activity. Though I tried to assure him that I have been with a monogamous partner for five years, he kept trying to refer to other partners slutty me must have had. THEN he tried to refuse to renew my birth control prescription unless I get STD tests that A) I knew I didn't need and B) he wasn't allowed to require me to get, legally. Fuming and searching for another doc, I got a call a few days later from his office (an apologetic nurse) saying he'd changed his mind and called the prescription in (how sweet of him, letting me make my own health decisions).

A few years ago, I used to say, "Sure, why wouldn't I want a male OB/GYN? It's all the same." Since then, though, I've realized that it's not the procedure I'm uncomfortable with, but the gender/authority dynamics that can emerge. Not that female docs can't be the same, but I think there's more of an understanding, or less of a affront, at least.

I definitely recommend seeing a female gynecologist. I made the decision to go to a woman doctor from my very first pap test and I have no qualms, no fears, no discomfort about going in for those exams. Women remember what it was like at their first visit, all of the doctors I have seen have told me exactly what they were doing, and answered all my questions patiently. They have also made recommendations to fit my lifestyle and choices, not their views (which they never expressed to me to begin with).

An added bonus is that you are supporting a woman professional!

ajohnson posted at July 17, 2008, at 08:47PM:
"he told me this: “Women shouldn’t have sex like men...'.

"...But the question remains, if men can have sex and women cannot, who are the men having sex with?..."

They're expected to have sex with other women and girls who aren't "marriage material" and who the "but women have it better than men!!!" crowd don't count.

Sounds like that nurse is expecting you to save STD infection for marriage.

This is a classic example of Slut-Shaming. I have been slut-shamed so much at the OBGYN, that I have been through 5 OBGYNs in 10 years - and most of them were women!

I go to Dr. Bowers now in Alexandria, VA. I got a good vibe from the place: the Physician and Midwife Collaborative Practice. If you are in the Northern VA area I recommend it. She is a bit pro-natalist. I got that impression when I asked her about fertility and all that. I am childfree, but I allow for the possibility that I could change my mind and wanted to know when the book closes on that decision. Despite the "you just wait until your biological clock starts a tickin'" thing, she seemed a good feminist and competent doctor.

Your mom's reaction = my reaction.

I probably wouldn't have said anything, either. But you know, you did do the right thing - correcting him and talking back could have caused a scene and now his superior knows and can take action against him.

I read your comment about being able to see a different person when you go in, and that's great! Maybe the nurse won't get fired or his license revoked, but they're aware of the situation and maybe he's been talked to and told that he can't say stuff like that. And maybe he won't anymore.

It's so frustrating to have someone who not only thinks they know more than you tell you what to do, but someone who's just wrong. Yeah, he's got a degree to support his apparently massive ego, but he's still wrong!

I hope that he learned a lesson from all of this.

This makes me so sick. I hate it when assholes think they can bully other people around because they're older or male or better-educated.

I definitely recommend seeing a female gynecologist.
Ditto. In fact, I recommend finding a female doctor in all fields--my gynecologist and ophthalmologist (and the general practice doctor at my college) are all female, and they're awesome! My general practice doctor in my hometown...male...total jerk...doesn't take my problems seriously. That's not to say there aren't good male doctors (as the OP's story obviously attests to), but I've had way better luck with women.

Thanks for sharing that.
I'm impressed with your self awareness and so glad to hear you spoke to the doctor.
I hope that nurse is trained to do better or fired.

Medical professionals lying to women doesn't stop at the GYN office. I'm pregnant and my female OB has told me quite a few lies in order to pressure me into treatments that I probably don't need. So, I'm changing doctors (I found a midwife practice that can take me - I'm switching late in the game). Interacting with the medical profession as a pregnant woman is a whole new ordeal. My point is that we always have to be careful about who we trust.

I can't believe this man is a nurse. The lie that viruses can get through condoms has been debunked for years, even before I was told it in an seventh grade sex-ed class I was in 10 years ago. I really think this nurse's behavior warrants being fired.

To judge someone for the treatment they are receiving, especially since you had already had the first shot in a three shot series, is completely ridiculous. For that matter, you could be a virgin and still want to get the HPV shot. Being a virgin and not having sex doesn't prevent you from being raped by someone with HPV and then getting cervical cancer as a fun bonus. How can it hurt to get the HPV shot. It can't. But it can hurt to NOT get the HPV shot, especially if you are prevented from doing so by someone who is not in the position to make your medical decisions for you.

And go you for going back to the doctor's office and sorting everything out. I agree with your mom, I can't believe he said that to you. Hope your doc fires his ass.

Hi, I am so sorry that this happened to you. I also wanted to let you know that doctors are not nurse's bosses. In hospitals, clinics, and all other health agencies, we have our own power structure. The only exception to this is in a private practice. An RN is a public license, and just like you're supposed to be able to ask a cop for his badge number, you can ask for any nurse's license number and they have to give it to you. With that, or even just their name and place of employment, you can make a complaint with the state board of registered nursing. I encourage you to. The reason why, is that your doctor may secretly agree with the nurse, or may not take appropriate action; the state board will. If nothing else, the state board calling this nurse over your complaint will absolutely terrify this nurse.

On behalf of my profession I apologize. I love nursing so much, and I really hate hearing bad nurse stories.

Quite honestly, if it had been me, I think I would've kicked him in the nuts (I have a black belt in TaeKwonDo), and explained to the doctor why his nurse was doubled over in pain when he walked in.

Good for you for having the courage to go back in. What he did was terrible. I too have had a shit experience at my school health center, and I'm still mad at myself for not going back and letting that bitch have it.

(Basically, she flat out asked if I was raped as a child (since I'd never had a pap smear). This after sneaking in "do you have breasts?" somewhere between your typical run-of-the-mill health questions, which... besides being *completely* inappropriate and offensive, was entirely besides the point since I was there for a freaking SINUS INFECTION and did NOT need her exacerbating any of my body issues when I already felt like shit thanks to the fever I was running. UGH, I get furious thinking about it to this day.)

When I got to the part about condoms are only for preventing pregnancy, he couldn't be more wrong. Form of the condom have been around since ancient Egypt, maybe earlier. It wasn't until the 19th century that it started to be considered a form of birth control. Before then it was only seen to prevent disease.

Unfortunately, working in a clinic has opened my eyes to rampant ignorance about sexual health issues, but to hear that the very people patients seek answers from are giving out not just biased and sexist information, but medically inaccurate information, disturbs me. In my community, there is no comprehensive sex education. The little bit of information given to them when they come into the clinic for treatment is all they have to protect them. Perhaps this nurse should consider going back to school...learning the facts and forgetting his stereotypes before he returns to work.

good for you for writing down what you remembered and then reporting him.

this is only part of the reason why we need comprehensive sex ed in schools - because of nutcases like this in healthcare.

as for the question about whether to go to a female doc or not, at the end of the day, everyone has to do what they feel most comfortable with. just wanted to let you all know that there are plenty of fantastic male doctors around (i am a female physician, but i've trained with great men!), so keep the hope alive if for whatever reason you have to see a male doc. choosing a doctor is kind of a trial and error for both doc and patient....keep searching until you find a doctor, of whichever gender, whom you feel comfortable with.

You might want to think about posting this story on EVERY business review site you can find, like Yahoo Local and SuperPages. Maybe once potential patients find out that this guy is dispensing medically inaccurate CRAP, he will loose some business. Also, if this doctor/nurse combo work for a larger hospital or clinic structure, find the name of the hospital director or HR or even Chief of Medicine and write them a professional business letter telling them about why your experience bit the big one. I think this guy should have to pay professionally in some manner for this bullshit.

Have things changed? In the UK in the 60s, my Mum had a traumatic labour of 36 hours with my older brother, and when shifts changed and a particular nurse came back on duty she said to my Mum rudely, "Are you still here?" As if my Mum was choosing to prolong the agony she went through!!! After my birth and finishing breastfeeding me, she went to a Family Planning Clinic requesting the pill. A nurse questioned her decision. Her argument was that my Mum was young, healthy and married and should therefore keep reproducing. At this stage she had 2 kids under 2 at the age of 24. She got her prescription but still had to justify why. My parents later migrated to Australia and my Mum had another child soon after. Again after breastfeeding him, she decided to go back on the pill. She tried to make an evening appointment with the local doctor so my Dad could look after their 3 young children while she went, to be told that evening appointments were reserved only for those people who worked! She was forced to attend a daytime appointment with 3 young children in attendance. When she mentioned this to the doctor he was outraged. The nurse had taken it upon herself to lay down the rules regarding eligibility for appointments. Things changed as a result. We're now in the year 2008 and your experiences with this nurse illustrate that many health professionals still regard women as being incapable of making decisions regarding their own bodies and reproductive health. I went to a male gynaecologist for a pap smear and it was excruciating. When I told him it was hurting I was told to stop "carrying on". This is after having 2 natural births with no pain relief. Unfortunately I could no longer see the doctor who had delivered my babies as he had gone into research, so this was the new guy. Now I see a female gynaecologist who has 4 kids of her own. She is absolutely fantastic.

I have had an extremely similar experience with a male gynecologist recently. I think I will post about it as well. I admire you for being able to keep your cool.

I had a medical professional grill me on the particulars of my abortion (from seven years ago) during a PAP. She made a whole bunch of inappropriate comments and made me aware of her pro-life position in one of the most uncomfortable doctor visits EVER. I'm secure in my decision & was well aware that she was out of line, but I was still left with a bad feeling towards Docs in general after that fiasco. Not only are uneducated women & teens at risk in the hands of jerky medical professionals; even the most feminist-y of us feminists are negatively affected by such behavior. I've carried that doubt & distrust to every gyno exam since!

Sorry to hear you had to deal with such ridiculous sexism. Gynecological nurses don't need a degree right? It's probably a good general rule to confirm anything they say with a doctor anyway.

Also, there are a couple subtleties about condoms and STIs that a lot of people aren't aware of. Although what he told you about viruses being able to get through condoms is definitely not true for latex condoms, it is true for sheepskin condoms (which some people use because of latex allergies). Also, HPV and herpes are transmitted through skin contact rather than fluid contact, so condoms help lower the risk of transmission, but not as much as they do for other STIs. Still, latex condoms offer the best protection for the sexually active, and it's a shame that nurse was abusing his position to spread misinformation.

Can he losing his right to practice for blatantly giving out false information?

A LOT of things about female health are not necessary and unfair, like giving birth laying down. It makes birth much more difficult and unnatural. Or perhaps now going to Walgreens in Chicago and not being able to find a pregnancy test, that's a lot of fun. It's embarrassing enough to be in that "aisle" but to have to ask for someone's help is just down right debilitating.

Although I have had one good experience in that store, I needed to get the plan b pill and I walked up to the pharmacy and asked if they had it and the young pharmacist look at me and smiled and said "No problem, you don't need to say anymore". He asked if I had questions and I said no, I knew a lot of about it. I came out of there feeling kind of empowered, like it wasn't a big deal that I asked for it. : ) YAY for awesome health professionals! BOO for shitty ones!

I'm so relieved that you posted about this. I went to the OBGYN today and became so furious that I planned posting here as a way to vent. This was a follow up appointment with another doctor that was referred to me by my original doc. (My pap was abnormal during my exam a week ago, also I found out I have HPV.) My experience was a more subtle form of a certain will to control/morally influence me. At first, I thought this woman was awesome. She asked me about my environmental job and told me about her kids and how they recycle and save water, etc. She told me about activists in India that engage in civil disobedience to stop clear cutting. Then, she said “You’re an office manager, how, you are so young.” (I’m 21) Which, you know, I thought was a bit condescending. I didn’t think anything of it until after the exam, biopsy, and pain that led to me crying as she told me “You are such a good girl. There you go. It’s all over. You were being a good girl.” Then she told me everything looked fine but that she wanted to “talk to me”. I thought maybe she’d discuss the implications of HPV (all of which I had obsessively read about online) or how to protect my possible partners from getting it until it cleared up. No, instead she told me “Like smoking leads to lung cancer, sex can lead to…you know…and you do not want to be here again. So, I advise that you abstain from sex until marriage, until that special man comes. You do not need to be having sex. Just abstain until you find that person…etc” She kept repeating various sentences combinations with the words “abstain”, “marriage,” and “special”. Even after she’d asked me about being on birth control, if I used condoms, when I lost my virginity, she STILL felt like it was ok to tell me to close my legs until marriage. I just smiled and said, “I’m currently single, but I appreciate your advice.” And then she left and I cried. I have yet to find an OBGYN in Texas that won’t make me feel like shit after I’ve put my clothes back on.

I would just like to offer the opinion again that not all male doctors are bad. I was sexually abused when I was younger, so when it came to the point of going to the gynecologist, I was already hesitant. I weighed the options of a male or female doctor. I had a male GP, whom I really liked, but I was afraid of what it would be like for him to do a PAP on me. I considered the whole would it be better for a female I don't know to do it or a male I do, and I decided on the male doctor. He was absolutely wonderful and took care of all of my concerns and needs as far as it went. I wouldn't trade my doctor for anything, and just wanted to share.

You actually believe her? When someone leaves out bits of the conversation then it usually indicates a fabricated story.

I read it and from what I got out of it is that you are pretty easy. Can I get your number.

i'm really glad you posted this. the first time i visited a gyn. the nurse made several off comments including telling me to "keep my knees together." She did it all with a smile on her face and was otherwise very nice to me. i felt kind of bad when i had that weird feeling in my stomach afterwards. it could have been a lot worse, but it still made me angry and upset.

i'm really glad you posted this. the first time i visited a gyn. the nurse made several off comments including telling me to "keep my knees together." She did it all with a smile on her face and was otherwise very nice to me. i felt kind of bad when i had that weird feeling in my stomach afterwards. it could have been a lot worse, but it still made me angry and upset.

i always found it interesting that despite my male GP prescribing me birth control (because at age 18 i was still irregular) his female physician's assistant proceeded to act as if i was a liar who wanted the pill so i could have sex. just goes to show how its not always men being sexist when it comes to treating sexual health issues.

conversely i've had good experiences and not so good experiences with planned parenthood of all places. anyone else?

I absolutely agree that that nurse was very sexist. I do want to say though, that HPV can be contacted even if your partner is wearing a condom. It's about skin to skin contact and if someone has a wart on an exposed genital part, you can get that STD too.

Well, you have to admit that if you weren't having sex, then none of these issues would really affect you.

And, ideally, if women aren't having sex, then neither are men. At least, according to traditional Judaeo-Christian doctrine, which is the perspective I'm assuming this "evil nurse" was coming from.

It's just so unbelievably inappropriate and sexist that I just sat there absolutely blown away I tried to think of *a* situation when it was appropriate to say that, I tired to find something "not wrong or inappropriate" about what he said, and I completely failed.
Aside from being incredibly sexist - I've never understood why female sexuality seems so dangerous that we must harness it...behind a hymen - the facts about condoms are wrong. But, being a nurse, not only was he wrong, but he was lying. I'm hoping that he was just *incredibly* stupid and didn't know any better and so was just wrong but the whole thing is nauseating, that he would be in that kind of position and feel that he could have that kind of power.

Regarding the HPV vaccine, I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it. Why not see if we can eradicate the disease by having all girls vaccinated against it? Even if it only did a few, what's wrong with being protected from them?(On that note, since it can cause throat cancers and the like, when will we being to vaccinate the boys? Oh wait, we don't want to protect them against something that they'd only get if they were dirty homosexuals...)

One of the most annoying things about going to ANY doctor that most women probably don't even notice is the heterocentrism that occurs before you even step inside the office. It usually goes something like this, "Are you on any medications?" No. "What about birth control?" No. "Are you trying to get pregnant?" No. "Well, do you use condoms?" No. "When was your last period?" "Do you think you might be pregnant?" "How do you know for sure?" The whole thing is sooooo offensive. The one time I answered the "What type of birth control do you use?" question by stating, "Lesbianism" I had to listen to the (male) nurse talk to me about all the lesbians he knows and how great lesbians are. So glad I could be your fantasy. Loved that appointment. I also always have to remind my doctors multiple times that I'm not sleeping with "dudes" nor am I abstinent. Never once have they given me any info on safe sex with women. EVER. They just drop the subject completely once it's not about teh menz...and I always go to female doctors.

Anytime you have any problems of this sort (or anything), you need to report it. If you have insurance or Medicaid, you should call them up and say you want to file a complaint. It’s no guarantee that anything will happen, but if they never hear complaints about providers, nothing will ever change. Health plans are very interested in quality performance and need to know about sexist or demeaning behavior. They do keep logs of complaints.

my second and third Gardasil took exactly long enough for them to poke me. My doctor is actually a nurse practitioner (whom I love!)and she talked about it with me before the first one but the second and third are just shots.

I would also like to say I am sorry that this happened to you. Some people are jerks. I don't want to sound sexist but I have always been a little suspicious of male gynecologist (I know this guy was a nurse). May be a doctor could explain this to me. Don't doctors pick specializations based on interest. Obviously, some men really want to help women but I still don't want a guy doing my pelvic exam. It has nothing to do with sex it has to do with has this person ever HAD a pelvic exam?

meggy b: if you're in the DFW area, i can recommend my gyno. he's a man, but i've talked to him about some not so conservative topics before and gotten nothing but good info and support. leave a comment at my blog or email me: bethany [at] thinkforfree [dot] net.