In my down time at work I like to surf comment threads on abortion-related topics - I find them fascinating. Not too long ago I came across this little gem posted by the user "Agnostic Neocon"
It's his defense of the pro-life stance and why we need John McCain in the Oval Office. It's a long argument but to take any of it out of context really lessens the impact of his overall message (paragraph four is my favorite - and by favorite I mean it is completely atrocious):
This next President might install three more Supreme Court Justices!! The next election is huge!! The tide is slowly turning around the country, with modern mini-cameras traveling the womb to give us pictures of the living fetus, with babies being born after 22 weeks to survive!! In time with one or two more Judges we can overturn the ugly stain of fetal genocide that has ‘poxed’ this great country for the last 35 yrs!! But we have to elect a truly pro-life candidate, and that one my friends, is John McCain!!
Abortion is murder! Just because the babies head hasn't came out yet, does not mean it’s not a living being! We should at least gather a five star panel to figure out where life really does begin! When you die the doctor will pronounce you dead when the electrical activity in your brain stops! That’s when you are officially and scientifically dead, so it is logical to say that life begins when that synapse starts in the fetus (around day 7). Roe vs. Wade is a terrible law!! The 14th amendment was never written with abortion in mind!! We all have the rights to "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" as the Bill of Rights says! One's right to happiness should not trump another's right to life! Life is the first right listed for a reason! Life is precious, in reality all we really have is our life! Let’s stop this ugly institution of abortion!
The history of men's oppression against women since the beginning of time has been horrific and documented and it still goes on all over the world today, only in modern times in the West and modern East have women had the right to control their own destiny as they should, but I believe that in the name of Independence we have let the pendulum swing too far! I can see where women would want to get out, get a job, be productive, and have a better life, and if a woman is not in ultimate control of her sexuality, her reproduction, and then that freedom is taken from her… Denying our biological responsibilities in the name of freedom and equality is just wrong! When I hear talk of women's rights, when speaking of abortion, it echoes the "Civil War" where Southerners spoke of "states’ rights" in speaking of slavery!! It’s an illogical argument, the right to happiness should not trump others' rights to life!!
The standard comeback that I hear is: you’re not a woman so you are incapable of having a proper opinion on the subject, basically saying: since I have no female sex organs, I have no right to have an opinion on the topic! Ladies: carrying a child is a huge burden and I know I'm ignorant of the fears or responsibility that a woman has to bear when she gets pregnant! But all that being said, maybe I'm more ENTITLED to make an objective conclusion because I'm not stricken with those fears of responsibility!! If a cop gets killed, they will never put another cop or a cop’s family member on the jury, because they are incapable of making an objective verdict. So maybe sexual age women have an inherent prejudice when examining this issue that I do not? Carrying a child is a huge life changing burden, but regardless life trumps all other considerations!! I'm very sorry, but it’s your biological DUTY to have a child if you get pregnant!!! I know I'm branded a sexist pig for daring to tell a woman what to do with her body: but once you’re pregnant, unfortunately for you, it’s no longer your body; it’s now “their " body, you’re sharing it with an equal being!! That’s your place in the nature of life, your biological responsibility to your race. I'm sorry if mammal biology doesn't sit well with the feminist movement, but so be it!! The purpose of sex is not to empower you, or to have fun, it’s to reproduce!! If you have sex by all means use birth control, but understand that if you get pregnant, you have a responsibility to your baby!! If you don't want or can’t have a baby, then don't have vaginal sex!
Abortion has created a rift in our political parties, it causes hate on both sides of the aisles, it’s been a moral stain on our nation, since 1972 over 45 million children have been killed in the name of sexual freedom, or "women's rights"! In the 60's and 70's we had a cultural revolution, and the pendulum swung too far to the left when Row vs. Wade was made law!! The 14th amendment to the Constitution, says nothing about the killing of the unborn child, it’s a terrible interpretation of the amendment!! The ‘Declaration of Independence’ our nations first document expressing our rights, states that we all have right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, it’s illogical for some to say their right to happiness outweighs another’s right to life!!
Since 1972, 25% of children have been executed for the crime of having a mother who didn't want them!! 1.4 million each yr, and then we go to the third-world to adopt babies!! Genocide is defined as an act of killing 10% of a population for economic or political or religious reasons and we are killing our young at the rate of 25%!! We are committing genocide on the weakest members of our society!!
When you factor in 35% of sexually active people have already taken part in abortions, there is no way most of them will ever in believe in their hearts or minds they were wrong. Like the slavers in our own ugly history, or the Romans and such throughout humanity’s long ugly history, our opinions are often determined by our wishes and past actions, not by pure logic, or morality, many will never admit or even know they are wrong, but that doesn't make their opinions or actions correct! They are locked in their misguided ways. But in the end life trumps all other concerns, happiness should not be allowed to overrule the unborn child's right to life. A culture is judged by how they treat the weakest members of that culture, and we kill our weakest members at the rate of 25%! Abortion will be argued over, until we do away with it, because it’s wrong and evil!! And the numbers of those against it are slowly growing and will become the majority in time, the tide is turning and genocide of the unborn child is on its way out, it will take a couple more judges, than time to make law giving the fetus the same rights we all have, so vote for John McCain and let’s work to end this scourge of fetal genocide!
_______
If this is why I should vote for John McCain, you can pretty much bet that I won’t be doing that come November (not that I had ever planned to, but still). I did add some emphasis on a few words because the original emphasis was on the word LIFE a lot and I wanted to point out some bigger themes (and I corrected any formatting errors that occurred so that this was actually readable) but everything else is all him.
I'm almost too exhausted from his posting to pick apart all the facts he uses as justification because I'm so caught up in the implications of his argument. As women we're apparently irrational about our own bodies, behaving irresponsibly to the human race, and ushering a new Conferdacy into the 21st century.
Thoughts?
0 TrackBacks
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Women and the Next Civil War.
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.feministing.com/cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-tb.fcgi/8158
Weekly Feministing Newsletter
Feministing RSS Feed
OMG!!!! The exclamation marks make his argument so forceful!!!
This should be spread far and wide so people know what is at risk in November.
"Thoughts?"
At least this person does not limit sex to within the confines of marriage, approves of use of contraception, and implies acceptance of non-"vaginal sex". (BTW, how come we don't hear more about non "penile sex"? What is it about men and the penis? I have no issues with ED, but my wife and I only use mine maybe one third of the time.)
So what's his bullshit about sex being meant "to reproduce" and not to "have fun" then, particularly if one "can't have a baby" or he PROMOTES use of "birth control"?
Idiot.
Roe vs. Wade is a terrible law!!
Ow. My brain. Ow, ow, OW.
I guess it would be too much to ask that people who make arguments actually understand what they're talking about.
Also I am looking forward to seeing how well it goes over when all these "pro-life" folks try to institute mandatory organ donation laws.
What about all the "babies" killed before Roe v. Wade? Abortion didn't start when Roe v. Wade was decided, and abortion won't stop if it is overturned. What about all the women killed or maimed before Roe v. Wade? 1.4 million "babies" have died but how many (both women and blastocysts/fetuses) died before Roe v. Wade? Why don't these people ever talk about that?
He should be preaching about proper sex-ed and free contraception for everybody. anti-choicers aren't too proactive are they?
Ok, lets break this down:
1)That’s when you are officially and scientifically dead, so it is logical to say that life begins when that synapse starts in the fetus (around day 7)
- An ANTI CHOICE commercial I saw claimed that fetuses dont measure brain waves til about the 40th day after conception. Not quite the 7 he was talking about (anyone have real data on this, I've always been curious)
2) maybe I'm more ENTITLED to make an objective conclusion because I'm not stricken with those fears of responsibility
- thats exactly WHY you ARNT entitled to make that decision. How could someone make an informed decision about something they will never experience? This is like people with no military experience or family members in the military making decisions about our country's envolvement in war. Oh, wait....
3) it’s been a moral stain on our nation, since 1972
- Women have ALWAYS had abortions. Always. In every culture. Whether it was purposely ingesting a poison so that in the throws of illness they would miscarry or arranging an accident like falling down stairs, women have always gone to great lengths to abort unwanted children. Boy, those options sound like lots of safe, fun times. If you de-legalize abortion all those women will continue to have them, only in unsafe, unclean conditions where they will risk infection, sterilization, and death. Or you, just do their fucking DUTY and bear these unwanted children into fatherless poverty to a mother who may not be adequately prepared to raise them to the best of her abilities.
I'm one of the 35% and I've never been ashamed of my choice. Suck my cock, loser.
Faeryn commented at July 24, 2008 6:57 PM: "If you de-legalize abortion all those women will continue to have them, only in unsafe, unclean conditions where they will risk infection, sterilization, and death. Or you, just do their fucking DUTY and bear these unwanted children into fatherless poverty to a mother who may not be adequately prepared to raise them to the best of her abilities."
Don't forget the third possibility: bearing these unwanted children into poverty to a mother and a present father who both may not be adequately prepared to raise them to the best of their abilities (no matter how much some conservatives would tell some of the mothers "but you don't need anyone else's help, you're married so your husband will provide!!!" and some liberals would tell them "but you are adequately prepared to raise children, it's unfair to say some parenting is better than other parenting!!!").
I am not arguing for restriction of access to abortion or reversing Roe v. Wade*, but why is poverty the only situation (or future) forseen regarding the family into which a baby is born against a woman's choice? Other possibilities though one may not agree with them, are giving children up for adoption, or being born and raised as "average" children as within cultures where abortion is not legalized, like pre-1973 USA. Then are unplanned or unwanted children who live a life of abuse and trauma of varying length and degree (as well as planned and wanted children who experience abuse and trauma).
* I support a woman's right to abortion on demand. Economic hardship or poverty are hardly the only reason for a woman to consider or seek abortion, even in those cultures or times where abortion is not legal or safe.
Holy shit, that's not the definition of genocide at all.
Genocide, from what I understand, is the removal or extermination of a racial, ethnic, religious or national group. This can be done through forced removal, sterilization, killing, maiming or other means of getting rid of one of these groups. Since fetuses are not under any of these groupings, it's not fucking genocide. There is no number for genocide. One killing in the name of extermination is genocide. Generally, it's not treated that way, but technically, it's still genocide.
In that vein, if you kill 50,000 women, it's not genocide. Even if you only target women. They aren't one of the groups.
I'm sorry, but that really bothers me when people call abortion genocide. It's not. You could call it infanticide or something and I wouldn't be all definition-happy, but it's not genocide.
I echo everyone else here, too.
Where is this 35% coming from? I'd like to see some statistics and sources, thanks.
I'd also like to see a few more exclamation points. Because there just aren't enough in this essay.
yeah i lose brain cells reading drivel like this, much less commenting on it.
can referencing slavery in the american south in an abortion thread please be the godwin's law of reproductive rights?