Note: this post makes reference to things that may not be considered pornography in the academic sense, but which I believe are being used for the same purposes as porn.
* * *
Theoretically, I'm okay with people choosing to look at pornography.
I feel about it similarly to the way I feel about bondage, swingers, etc.: Those choices should be available to the people that want them, but they are not for me or my loved ones.
It's the "or my loved one" part that's causing me problems of late.
Last night, my significant other of five years let me use his laptop. As soon as I typed in the first letter of the url, the url bar at the top of the page (or maybe Windows) helpfully supplied a list of all the recent pages visited that begin with that same letter.
Some of the urls had phrases like "gentlemen's club" and "strip club." I followed the urls and saw that my S.O. had been looking up "adult clubs" in neighboring cities and in a few cities he had recently visited on his own. I was disappointed but not upset; although as a feminist, I'm abivalent about stripping, I don't really mind if he looks at other women's naked bodies. I know he loves me and is deeply attached to me (perhaps a bit more than I am to him), and that the women on the stage or in a DVD can't fulfill him in the same way I do.
This is the reason why I don't object to his re-viewing the same three "adult" DVDs he's had for a few years. Also, I often use external stimuli to get aroused, and I wouldn't hold him to a double standard.
So, I checked my email and moved on to type in the name of a blog I like that begins with an "L." The url dropped down to offer a list of DOZENS of Los Angeles Craigslist entries...the urls of which indicated they were personals ads. We don't live anywhere near L.A. but my S.O.'s work sent him there last month on a job.
I followed the urls. I understand that some in my position might consider this a violation of privacy, and I'd agree with them. However, given the assorted high stakes involved--the very LEAST of which is the fear of STDs/my health--I violated his privacy with impunity.
My S.O. has apparently been looking at highly explicit personals ads on Craigslist. I wasn't even aware that this site allowed graphic images, but the posted pictures were full-on nudity, many of them posed in self-consciously pornographic manners. Most of the images were of women, but some were of men. He had looked up personals only on Craiglists sites of cities close to ours and cities my S.O. had recently visited.
To say I was shocked was an understatement; nothing in his personality has indicated to me that he would be this invested in pornographic imagery, to say nothing of potentially answering personals ads. He's a mild-mannered, sweet-tempered recent immigrant who (according to him) had never had a girlfriend before me. (Though I suppose that some might consider this good reason for him to explore the "bounty" of Western sexual imagery with which he's now faced). I've always considered him to be the most honest person I know; he often tells me things that he knows will upset me, but shares them because he "does not want to lie."
Anyway, I shut down the computer and confronted him about it. At first, he thought I was accusing him of stepping out on me, and perhaps in some ways, I was. After all, I did calmly demand that he take a new STD/HIV test on the morrow and show me the results.
His expression crumpled with horror and he began urgently denying that he would ever have sex with another, that I was the only woman he wanted/loved; etc. He also denied ever having gone to a strip club; he said he only looked them up to see the adjacent photographs of the models. He was adament that because he could never lie to me, he would freely admit to looking, and even offered to walk me through all of the different ads he had looked at. He could not articulate why he looked up personals only in cities he lived near or had visited. He looked and sounded ashamed of himself and aplogized, saying, "I don't know why I looked at them, and I'm sorry."
After listening to him/watching him for a while, I came to the conlcusion that he was telling the truth when he said he had neither had sex with, nor contacted any of the people in the ads. I believe that he was using them as a sort of free "porn."
But, the problem for me, remains a future one. Is this the beginnings of one of those fabled "porn addictions" one reads about in alarmist-sounding articles? Is it helpful to think of explicit personals-cruising as porn, or is it more accurately something separate? Even if he doesn't "act" on the personals, is there something functionally different between viewing professional actors on an adult DVD and looking "into" the lives-on-offer that are personals ads? After all, these were people who gave their first names sometimes, who described their interests,jobs, talents. Looking at their picture along with their personals ad seems more--well, personal!
I'm not sure what to do about this. I told him we would discuss it further later, but that if he felt like he "had" to look at pictures, he might want to look into some sort of addiction group or help. (FWIW, he never said he "had" to or that he felt otherwise compelled). I told him I cared about him and would always be his friend, but that I didn't believe I could enter a marriage knowing about this type of habit. DVDs are one thing, but the personals ads just rubbed me the wrong way.
I find myself asking a lot of questions I would not have asked before, when porn and sex work and exotic dancing and internet sex were all distinct categories I could parse at my leisure, from high atop my feminist perch.
What about you?
When it comes to sexual imagery and services, how do you reconcile your feminist views with your life?
Has anyone had a moment like mine, when the academic became the personal?
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Oops, that was supposed to be "ambivalent" in the bit about stripping.
If all the links that came up had pictures in them then it's possible he's telling the truth.
I look at the "casual encounters" and "erotic services" listing on CL on my town all the time. Although it's not so much for arousal, I've got tons of porn for that, but mainly for the occasional incident where I run across someone I know and then it's kind of funny to me. But I'm sure a lot of people get off on "amateur" porn of the kind posted on CL, and if you live in a town that does not have a lot of CL listings then LA might have more to look at.
Still, the fact that he hid this is suspicious. I've always been very open about my internet and possibly misconstrued viewing habits with anyone I was in a relationship with.
Logrus, I appreciate your input. I never use CL, not even to buy used items or seek apartments, so I don't know anything about its specific "culture."
Every url I followed--both CL personals and the strip clubs--contained explicit or semi-explicit images. As I said, some of them were for men, too, and so far, he has never shown any indications of being attracted to men.
I don't know if it's accurate to say he "hid" anything from me. He didn't tell me that he was visiting CL to look at naked pics. On the other hand, in the past, he had to be coaxed into admitting that he had ever masturbated; it's looked down for men in both his and my own background's culture, and he was embarassed to "admit" to doing it.
I don't know how much he knows about computers, but even if he didn't know how to erase the url history, if he thought there was a chance I could see anything, why would he hand over his laptop?
I guess my concerns are more about "unilateral" porn use in relationships in general, and whether or not there's a difference between occasional use of professional porn (which I didn't really take issue with) and, say, daily or weekly checking out of amateur/personals type of stuff. In an otherwise very good relationship, does this bode ill?
I don't know how much he knows about computers, but even if he didn't know how to erase the url history, if he thought there was a chance I could see anything, why would he hand over his laptop?
You ever stand in front of the fridge with the door open, looking for pickle relish for twenty minutes getting more and more frustrated and then someone reaches past you and grabs the relish which was right in front of you the whole time?
My point is that everyone is capable of being a brain-dead moron sometimes. Maybe he just had a moment where he was absolutely clueless. I have about twelve a day, possibly more I may have forgotten about.
It's really hard for me to guess though, I'm really open about my sexuality and related issues. If I were your BF you would know I looked at that stuff and if I whacked off to it or not, or if it was just for giggles because I would say "Hey, come here and look at this. Does that look like Steve an Karen? Yeah, they're swingers! Wild huh? Wow, Karen really has stretch marks. That's too bad. Huh, Steve shaves his balls. I would have never guessed."
Oh, or:
It could have been a calculated first step in a plan to gradually make you aware that you've been exposed to the happies.
I hope not, but having instigated some haire-brained plans in my day (none involving the herps) it seems possible.
I think that it is definitely acceptable to be upset if your boyfriend is checking out personal ads, especially in cities where he is going on business trips. It's great that you took your anger about the issue and confronted your S.O., instead of keeping your anger and doubts to yourself. Perhaps to calm your nerves about it you could have a rule between the two of you that he only looks at personal ads of women (or men) in cities he is not going on business trips or living in. If part of the allure is that he might one day see these women, and that's why he only looks at cities he is in or will be in, then that's another thing you should discuss. Hope everything works out well. I don't think this sounds like a porn addiction or anything more serious than most men's porn browsing.
Personally, I see no issue with my SO looking at porn. I don't even care if he tells me about it. His masturbation aids are his own business, just as mine are my own. Unless he started choosing porn over me or I found out he was looking at kiddie porn or something equally creepy, there is and will be no issue. If he was going to strip clubs, I would want to be informed of it, but as long as it was not a frequent habit it would not bother me. That is just me, I know alot of people are bothered by SOs looking at porn, it is a very personal thing.
I can understand why the craigslist personals freak you out a little, as there is contact info and the like attached. You should try and share your feelings on the matter with him, and explain why it feels like a bigger deal than regular porn to you. If it really just is for the images the he looks at them, then I am sure there would not be a problem finding a non-personal ad equivalent...it doesn't sound like he has a pornography addiction, if it took you 5 years to even think that he had a porn problem. Unless he is unable to preform w/o it, or constantly avoids real life in favor of porn, it is probably a relatively harmless habit, IMO.
Dan Savage has a few great podcasts relating to this. Craigslist is another kind of porn, a newer emerging form, where the draw is the fact that it's amateur and linked to another human being with a desire to be an exhibitionist. It's slightly more interactive porn. I guess the challenge would be setting boundaries - if he is in contact with the people he browses ads with but never intends to actually meet them that could be ok, or not. It's up to you two to draw the line at where you're comfortable.
But this definitely doesn't sound like a porn addiction at all.
Can anyone see the contradiction in the above statement?
What if that statement was made by a man, talking about his girlfriend's choice of entertainment, religion, or friends?
Apparently, you think there are some choices that shouldn't "loved ones" shouldn't be allowed to make... interesting.
And rather than continuing on to whatever page you were headed towards, you decided to snoop. Let's not kid ourselves, either you were snooping, or you're so slow at typing that you were able to read through a lot of websites before you finished entering the one you wanted.
So you don't object to DVD's he's had for a few years? How generous of you! Tell me, has he purchased any new movies, books, or magazines in the last few years? I'm sure there are some die hard fans that wouldn't mind only ever owning the works of Shakespear or Tolkien and never reading anything else, but most folks prefer a little variety over time...
So you were snooping in your boyfriend's history bar, even checking out the websites he'd visited to determine that they were from strip clubs in specific cities, and then you just decided to check your email, maybe read a blog or two when suddenly all this new information appeared? You were snooping! It's OK to admit it. There was no 'L' blog, just snooping. Once you saw traces of porn, you wanted to find out how far it went. I'm sure you'd say that you were just dusting the bookshelf when his journal fell out, and it just happened to open to a specific page when you picked it up, so you started reading.
Fear of STDs is "high stakes"?
[emphasis added] OK, I call hoax here. Seriously, this has to be fake."this invested"? How "invested" was he? Internet histories can go back days, weeks, or even months. You haven't said how often he looked at these sites, or how much. There's a difference between reading 30 personals over a lazy 2 hours one Sunday afternoon, and looking at 5000 in 6 hours, every other day. "...to say nothing of potentially answering personals"? Potentially? Either he answered some, or he didn't. Getting worried over what someone "potentially" might do, especially if it seems out of character, is bordering on drama. "...on the morrow"?Let's be honest: you violated his privacy well before you hit the Craigslist entries. You weren't looking at stripclub websites because you were afraid for your health. Say it with me: you were snooping. Don't try to take the moral high ground here: you snooped in his computer.
OK, remember how I asked if anyone could spot the contradiction earlier on? Here's another participation exercise. Again, I'm inclined to think this is a hoax, simply because it's hard to read phrases like "Is this the beginnings of... porn addiction" in the same sentence as "alarmist-sounding". The only way this could sound better is if it started with "Could this possibly be..."
No. It is not the beginnings of an addiction. Addictive behavior, whether for porn or booze or drugs or shopping, all follows certain patterns, none of which you've mentioned.
What's funny (to me at least) is that you've been with this person for what, five years? If he had the behaviors of an addict, you wouldn't be worried by finding porn, you'd be relieved that you finally knew what he'd been hiding, relieved to at least understand what was driving the negative behavior. But (and this is important) there's been no negative behavior. You found out about the porn after the fact; he didn't neglect you or steal money or leave the house at odd hours or go out and not tell you where he went; he was the same nice guy he's always been. You're just freaked out that he was a nice guy that likes to look at naked ladies without you around.
It seems you don't really understand men & porn at all. Porn is about fantasy, and men know it! It doesn't matter if it's a personal ad by "Sally" who "likes windsurfing", or if it's a "bored housewife" who answers the door in high heels and a garter belt when the plumber arrives, it's all fantasy! He knows that the personal ads are as plausible and real as the DVDs he owns, he's enjoying the fantasy involved, as fantasy!Wow. So he said he never cheated, and never felt compelled to look at porn, and you told him he's a porn addict that should go into therapy, and that you won't marry him. I'm shocked, shocked! that he would keep this a secret from you. Why would he ever keep such a secret from his compassionate, understanding, non-judgmental partner of 5 years? If he's learned nothing else from this incident, he knows now that you'll assume the worst, jump to conclusions, judge him harshly, and use all kinds of emotional threats. He knows that secrecy really is best with some things, and he knows that you'll try to make choices about his private preferences.
Oh, and what, exactly, do you mean by "this type of habit"? Do you mean "looking at porn in secret/without your pre-arranged approval"? Do you mean "looking at naked women except for the express purpose of gaining arousal to have sex with you"? ( Do you mean "masturbation"?
Why? Seriously, why? You've already admitted you don't think he's cheated, or that he was looking to cheat. You believe (and I see no reason to doubt) that he was simply looking at the personal ads as a means of arousal.Let's try a few thought-experiments & see if we can get to the heart of the matter.
*What if you found out he had a membership to a Netflix-style adult DVD rental service? (unlimited rentals, but only 3 at a time)
*What if instead of loaning you his laptop, he loaned you his car, and you found a box of adult magazines & strip-club newsletters in the trunk? (for those not in the know, adult bookstores often have free publications advertising all the strip clubs and escort services in the area)
*What if instead of finding URLs for strip clubs & Craigslist, you discovered he had been buying "private shows" from "webcam models"?
Look, I may not be the most up-to-date on feminism, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't work on a high perch. I'm pretty sure real feminism is down in the trenches, working with real people, face to face. Including boyfriends & husbands.
There are two issues at play in this little vignette. First, if someone is cruising personal ads, that's cause for legitimate concern and dialog, because most folks cruise personals looking for, well, persons. But that's not where you started, and that's not what you're worked up over. Your response ("Did you cheat? I want a new STD test") may have been a bit strident, but is an acceptable response, and it led to a satisfactory resolution: you don't think he cheated, and he'll get a test to prove it. That really does get to be the end of that.
The other issue, the real issue, is that you have the same, non-feminist, non-unique, non-academic hangup about your boyfriend looking at porn that almost every woman experiences sooner or later. You were OK with the porn he had from before you two were together, and by "OK", I mean you accepted that you couldn't make him get rid of it, so you tried to ignore that he watched it and used it as a masturbatory aid. You were ready to consider marriage to this person who looked at porn & masturbated without your knowledge, but as soon as you found out he looked at porn and masturbated, you freaked out.
If you had said "he'd been acting weird", or "I thought he might be cheating", then your snooping might have been justified. But the only thing this man did that was out of the ordinary was letting you borrow his laptop!
Bottom line: drop it. You're convinced he's not cheating, and you don't get to tell him what he does or doesn't want to or get to look at. He's not breaking the law, he's not hurting you, he's not neglecting your relationship. Leave it alone!
Okra,
Having gone through a similiar situation myself, I can understand your concern.
Although I personally disagree with pornography (for various reasons that are not particularly relevant to this conversation), I never felt it was my place to tell my partner that he could not watch pornography. I understood that he did, and that he enjoyed it, and I accepted that.
However, one day when using his computer I found suspicious content. Then I snooped ( I fully admit to this). I found a VERY large amount of pornogaphy on his computer, and realized he lied to me about his porngraphy usage (he later admitted that yes he lied to me about it, often). I also found that he was on various dating websites, and having (what I considered) inappropriate, sexually flirtatious conversations with other women.
All of these things together really upset and concerned me, and I must say that I did not handle it nearly as well as you did, by discussing it with him calmly. However, when we were able to talk about it, I expressed my various concerns, and my partner told his side. I told him, that I would be more comfortable if he did not watch pornography, but I never told him he had to.
After our conversation, my partner decided to refrain from watching pornography at all, left all the dating websites, and is more careful in his conversations with other women. This is not say it happened all magically overnight. It has been a struggle for both of us to regain our trust issues, and understand each other's needs and deisres in this situation.
My partner recently explained to me that he has chosen to continue refraining from using pornography becuase he believes he has a pornography addiction. While I can't say if he did or didn't, I respect his decision, and he does not feel like I "made" him stop using pornography.
It is important that you keep open, honest lines of communication with your partner about this topic. You can both be happy only when you are both able to discuss your needs and feelings without fear of negative consequences. If the bond between yourself and your partner is worth saving, then you will both be willing to put the work in to understanding each other's feelings and behaviours.
I would also like to say, that is my partner who encouraged my to write this, as he hoped maybe our situation might help you and your partner sort out your issues.
Good luck :)
How can you call yourself a feminist and be 'ambivalent' about women objectifying themselves for mens' sexual pleasure?
HI Everyone, thanks for the responses. I'll try to address them as each as concisely as I can:
RodeoBob, I appreciate your taking the time to write such an in-depth comment. Your insistence that my experience is a "hoax" (while at the same time offering a long series of opinions on it) has me scratching my head a little. I suppose I'll never understand what motivates people to complain another person's experience is untrue...especially regarding something as mundane and common as concerns over porn viewership.
I'm also genuinely confused as to the source of your confrontational and, frankly, rather angry tone. My post was made in good faith and solicited opinions in what I feel was a reasonable and open-minded fashion. In fact, I'm pretty calm about the whole situation; some might even say I'm philosophical about it. The fact that your response--the first one to this blog--was so hot 'n' bothered leads me to believe that reactions to porn-viewership is an issue that gets you riled up.
You're entitled to express your many forceful opinions on that subject, but you'll have to find someone else on whom to work out your agression.
I'd also like to offer you a tip for the Community blog: this is a space where people--men and women alike--post experiences that have are deeply meaningful or significant to them. Some people post about their own sexual assaults; others about their families' racism; still others about problems in their personal relationships. Polite dissent is a boon, IMO, and I welcome it. But I reject any poster's attempts to come into a discussion and use confrontation, accusation, and devaluing of the original poster's experience as substitutes for that polite and informed dissent. This is what you have done here. Please stop.
Rzep, that is an *awesome* suggestion, and I will definately google Savage's thoughts on the topic.
Agnes Scottie, ditto to you on the setting boundaries as to what "Cities" would be acceptable. As I mentioned several times in my post (but as Rodeo might have missed), I myself don't have a problem with the viewing of naked people per se (i.e. not linked to a personals ad), so this is a workable solution for us. 4llison, I think this is a solution that seems like might have worked for you, or at least that you would be amenable to; I'm glad to hear there are others who share my experience.
Clarityinprint, I really appreciate your comments, as well; please say thank you on my behalf to your partner. It's helpful to me to hear from someone who describes their own situation as an "addiction" because I just don't have the experience with this issue to be able to tell what is and isn't. For a bit of context, I grew up in the U.S. in hard-line conservative Protestant communities, and porn was a popular subject in abstinence-only literature. Abstinence-only leaders characterized porn viwership of any kind as ominous signs of an addiction (of course, in that milieu, porn was believed to be only men's preference; women like hearts and flowers and "emotion," not that yucky sex stuff). Looking back now, I don't doubt some people are focused on porn to the detriment of their relationships, but I believe the characterization as "addiction" smacks of alarmism.
joyfuldinosaur, not all feminists think the same way; there are different schools of thought. And two hints: (1) men star in lots of porn, and (2) many women, hetero and queer, get "pleasure" from viewing porn.
As usual, an LOL to Logrus. Joint viewership of "steve and karen's" sexcapades sounds like a fine old time.
It does seem to be a compulsion, or addiction if you will. I would suggest talking about why he does this. Does he feel a rush? A need? There has to be something behind his need to check out personals and porn to this extent. I have known about a lot of men who have porn addictions, so this may be somewhat common. Would he be open to seeing a sex therapist (or regular one)?
Sometimes people leave hints about their behavior in order to be found out. It's almost like they can't stop the behavior themselves so they allow others to find out in order to force themselves to deal with their issues. I actually had a similar experience in one relationship.
I have also heard about friend's family who have gotten sucked into a secret fantasy life where they post/answer personals and have internet affairs, and eventually end up living a double life. I'm just saying this is not completely uncommon but I would want to seek help from a therapist and have really open communication to deal with this.
I hope this helps. At least you know you are not alone.
Hi RiotGrrl--thanks for the suggestion. Knowing his personality, he would not object to a therapist.
I saw him today and asked him again why all of the personals ads were in cities we either lived near or which he'd recently visited. This is all I want to know, and, I believe, is a reasonable and significant question. Granted, I was asking when neither of us had a lot of time, so it wasn't the best time for a conversation, but he could not articulate an answer. He looked unhappy, confused, and a bit frustrated with himself that he could not come up with an answer.
All he did was stress over and over again that he would never step out on me. I asked him what conclusions he would jump to if he saw I'd been looking at explicit, seeking-sex personals ads only in the handful of cities that I live near and had visited last month. He agreed he would be concerned.
I'm glad I posted, because, as a non-porn viewer and a non-CL-user, I was totally out of the loop in terms of what Logrus and Rzep brought up (the whole "social phenomenon" of amateur porn and personals being more intimate and voyeuristic than pro porn). It's actually piqued my academic interest. Maybe I'll raid the online journals at my uni to see what's been written about it.
I also wonder how gender roles would play into this. For example, U.S. majority society constructs women as more attuned sexually when emotions, lives, and personal connections are involved. Hypothetically, if a woman was otherwise disinclined to traditional porn, might she be attracted to "personals porn" as a more tacitly "acceptable" form of sexual expression? From what I saw on Craigslist, some of the people set up whole personas with first names of pseudonyms and described jobs, outside interests, and likes and dislikes. Whether or not carefully crafted, this was clearly a "person" who was displaying themselves sexually, not the one-dimensional sexual objects I've seen in the little porn I've viewed.
I look at CL casual encounters all the time, because they're hilarious, and I usually look at cities close to where I live. It's curiosity, more than anything else. Also, NY craigslist usually has the weirdest casual encounters. Still, this sounds really suspicious to me.
If you really don't believe he's cheating, then seriously reconsider your ideas about porn. I understand that you're uncomfortable with it, but under those sorts of restrictions I'd probably be getting kind of sneaky myself. He's been restricted to the same three DVDs for years now. I switch up my fantasies pretty frequently, and some stuff that I found incredibly arousing a few years ago is completely boring to me now. Are YOU under any restrictions as to what sort of aides you can use while masturbating?
It doesn't sound like a porn addiction at all. He wanted some new material, and he went and found some. That's normal.
The best thing you can do is remember that no porn on Earth can compete with a flesh-and-blood woman, and then back off. It's difficult, but be as rational as possible and don't question him too much about his porn use. Unless he's preferring the porn to spending time with you or looking at kiddie porn, you have nothing to worry about.
RodeoBob:
Firefox and other browsers automatically fill in a complete URL based on whatever letters are typed in to the address bar. How can you be unaware of this? She said it right in her original post.
You were obviously looking for some reason to pick a "fight" with someone and nothing to go on other than blatantly turning a blind eye to her very clear statememnts.
Also there is no disparity on her views of pornography. She's saying it's not for her and she does not like that people she cares about are in to it; but she clearly is able to accept it's existence to some degree. Perhaps you've never been in a relationship but that is essentially how they work. Nobody absolutely adores every single detail about a lover/partner. We love what we love and try to look past the less important things we are not happy with. That's how adults usually do it.
Your entire post comes off like you were in a bad relationship and have been saving up a rant about personal privacy and looking for some place to unleash it. Well congrats, it's out of your system now. Completely inappropriately, but you've excised the demon.
nattles_thing:
We have a local paper here in Portland with a very entertaining personals section that has an "Other seeking Other" category.
I wish CL had that category, because if there were pictures to go with some of those adverts it would be awesome.
Okra,
I agree with your concern about using the term addiction. Given the increasing rate that the religious right continues to tell us that ALL pornographic use is addiction, its a tricky subject.
I believe that anything can really become an addiction, but it is not up to me to decide if my partner has an addiction. Its just up to me to support whatever he decides is the best course of action for him.
I think, when we are discussing concerning behaviours with out partners regarding pornography, it is best to leave the term addiction out of it. Once the term addiction enters the conversation, people tend to become defensive and guarded, and it becomes difficult to actually achieve any constructive discussion.
There are still ways we can talk about concerning behaviour, by pointing out its effects on our relationship (whatever they may be), and expressing whatever emotions those behaviours may illicit in us.
I would also like to point out, that neither my partner or myself grew up in religious or conservative households, and neither of us were exposed to abstinence-only "education". We are both very leftist activist type people, so I feel confident that my partner's decision to use the term addiction hasn't come from a place of negative influence.
A lot of guys look at porn. So many, in fact, that you could link it to just about anything, from being a church deacon to, yes, cheating on your girlfriend. And pretty much everybody has some level of shame attached to it, and that can lead to lying to your partner, even when you know it's no big deal, even if you weren't raised religious. Our culture is messed up about sex, and it's easy to absorb that.
Also, the personal ads on Craigslist are massively entertaining. I've seen older women looking for men, 18-22, to "educate" (my wife sent me that one), young women willing to trade sexual favors for time on a boat, and one guy who posted a picture of himself in tighty whiteys, sprawled on a rug embroidered with a picture of a tiger. Oh, brave new world that has such people in it.
Clarityinprint, I don't think your BF is a porn addict. I think he likes looking at porn and knows you don't approve, so he minimized. He got caught, you got mad, so he seized on an excuse that absolves him of responsibility. He may even believe it. When I was much younger, I thought I was addicted to masturbation because I kept doing it. Turns out that I kept doing it because it felt good! And unless you're doing it to crazy excess, it's actually good for you. But I bought into the shame game and convinced myself there was something wrong with me.
On the other hand, if he calls in sick to work three days in a row so that he can "stay home and watch beach volleyball", you might want to recommend treatment.
MikeT,
It was never the one who used the term addiction, and I want to stress that. I was also not mad that my partner used pornography. I was upset that he was doing other things, in conjuction to pornography, that were suspicious and concerning. Please dont make assumptions about my reaction like that.
My partner and I are very sex positive people, and we both whole heartedly encourage each other to explore our individual sexualities in various ways. Encouraging masturbation within our relationship is very important to both of us. Honesty has always been the key part of this. Both my, and my partner's, concern stemmed largely from the fact that he was hiding and lying about things.
Again, I never chose to use the term addiction. It was something that my partner has used to describe himself. I have already stated it is not my place to say that he is or isn't, because I really do not know. I do know however, that we went through this situation, and we both were uncomfortable with what was happening to our relationship because of it. Therefore, my partner has chosen to refrain from using pornography at all...of course, Im not saying we all need to stop using pornography, it was just the right decision for my partner.
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I also feel like pointing out that many peole are commenting on how men use pornography, but I really think we should all be saying PEOPLE use pornography...because both men and women use pornography. I dont think that should come as a shock to anyone at this point.
mike t,
as clarityinprint's partner, i have a few problems with the assumptions and statements you make.
firstly, "addiction" as a term is used to much more than just physical dependance, and in this context has nothing to do with wether "it feels good" or not, but with the amount of which i was watching porn, the fact that i was lying to my loved ones about how much i had been watching, and that it was damaging my relationship with my partner.
also, i had no intent, nor do i absolve myself of the amount of porn i watched by simply attributing it to being an addiction. like any addiction, admittance is the first step towards recovery, and im dealing with the addiction with the help of clarityinprint.
now i turn my attention to your statement that "our culture is messed up about sex". as i am sure my partner would agree with me, we as a couple have absolutely no problem with sex. WE LOVE SEX! sex is awesome. sex is not the issue in our particular situation, its pornography, which in many cases, is abhorently UNfeminist. and as someone who believe's themself to be a progressive feminist thinker, i decided to cut out pornography from my daily ritual. that decision doesn't stem from being weird about sex, but believing that people shouldn't be degraded for my pleasure.
finally, i'd rather not you refer to me as clarityinprint's boyfriend, because a) i am not a boy, i'm a man, b) i think after about a year and a half of being in a serious and committed relationship, i am passed being simply her friend. i am her partner, and i think that the polite thing for you to do, is to use the same terminology as the individual you are talking to to refer to their relationships, instead of making assumptions.
Sorry, guys, didn't mean to offend, or to minimize your relationship. I've seen a lot of otherwise good relationships fall apart over this issue, so I tend to take a "don't sweat the small stuff" attitude about it, even though it's clearly not a small issue for the people in those relationships.
No offensive taken MikeT....its all about open communication on these boards.
I appreciate that for you, this kind of thing is "small stuff" and its great that it works for you. This is now "small stuff" to us in some ways, because we have worked through it, and found a solution that works for our relationship.
Hopefully, Okra and their partner will be able to to find a solution that makes both of them happy as well.
I think this has been a great discussion about the real-life impacts pornography can have on a realtionship (be they positive or negative), which helps to take it out of an academic context like you would find in a women's studies class.
Happy mid week everyone!
Clarityinprint, glad to have been a guinea pig for the feminist cause! Doublenegative, kudos to you and your partner for finding a solution that worked for both of you.
I spoke with my partner again last night. The meeting strengthened my belief that he did not contact any of the people in the ads and that he was not considering contacting them, either. (That probably makes me more gullible than I've known myself to be in the past, but sometimes, it's the non-verbal cues that help us determine truth.)
He was very embarassed to be perceived as "the type of person" who looks at porn. I explained to him that it is not porn viewing that bothers me--and reminded him that I never had a problem with his DVDs--but that it was the specter of his actually contacting and meeting up with some of the people in the pictures that disturbed me. I encouraged him to consider "professional porn" over personals ads linked to our city or nearby ones, and reiterated my belief that masturbation is helpful and nothing to be embarassed of, as he has been in the past. I also said that if he was interested in seeing how "everyday" people look, I'd be happy to take a page from Logrus' book and indulge in some joint viewership of amateur porn.
Thanks to all who commented; you really helped me work through my thoughts on this.