I agree that the terrifying part is the normalization and acceptance of this kind of attitude. "I hate women, but I like to fuck them."

And I think it is very much reflected back by women who say they JUST CAN'T be friends with other women, ever.

Why? Because according to these men and women, every woman (or every other woman besides themselves) are boring, naggy, snippy, bitchy, back-stabbing lesser beings. They're not REAL people like men are, with real interests, emotions, philosophies, and lives.

Great post.

Honestly? I don't think it's all that difficult for men to sleep with the despised part of the population. If it truly were so difficult to be a man who hates women yet sleeps with them, there'd be a lot fewer men doing that.

I think you're completely missing the fact that society as a whole, embodied in the advertising industry, supports the attitude of "Women are only good or one thing - sex." Society, and men's company of other men condones these act, relieving what little guilt there may have been. All the time men are confirmed in their ways - by other men.

It's human nature to seek out the situation that gives you the greatest reward with the least effort put into it. So if it were really such a burden to sleep with the lesser beings, why would they do it?

The thing is: Once women have been established as the bearers and keepers of teh_secks, there's no guilt connected with using them for exactly hat purpose - after all it *is* their purpose. The reason so many men feel totally at ease doing this, is because in their eyes they're doing nothing diferent from using the reote to change channels on the telly. They're using a given thing for its given purpose.

Methinks you're giving men a bit too much credit for viewing women as something that has any effect on their own shame. Remember extra-marital sex is only the woman's shame - not the man's. Purity balls vs. Integrity balls... remember?

Sounds like a lot of "anonymous men" if you know what I mean by anonymous. Hurp a durp.

Yeah, internet dudes complain that women are catty, intellectually inferior, snobby, celebrity obsessed bitches with trivial hobbies (and then they have hour long debates on the various types of anime tentacle porn). My bigger pet peeve is guys that say they can never find a girl who is interested in their nerdy hobbies (like comic books and video games) and in the same breath say that any girl that would like those things is just an obese whore anyway. That is actually a direct quote and it saddens me.

Good post.

That attitude seems fairly common online, but I, thankfully, have not encountered it in person. My friend once showed me a completely horrible website where the purpose was to complain about how feminism and women's rights had made women too uppity and causes many men to be single. Their disdain of women was unbelievable, but at the same they wanted to date women. How did they reconcile their hatred of women with their desire to be with them? They vilified American women in every way possible while fetishizing foreign women as submissive and perfect. It's pretty unbelievable.

Spacecake, I agree, and I think this idea that women are uninteresting and have no emotions or ideas is seen in a lot of other things in our culture. It's like the double standard he's passionate/she's hormonal or PMSing thing, because women don't have real emotions unconnected to their ovaries.

The idea that a large number of men hate women and just want sex scares the crap out of me. I would like to find a guy to be a partner, not someone who sees me as a glorified blow-up doll.

My ex-boyfriend "fell out of love" with me about six months into our relationship. He neglected to tell me until a year later, but felt it was okay to lie to me and tell me otherwise, and felt no shame about sleeping with me, too.

He now tells anyone who will listen how much he hates me. He was my first big eye-opener that there's a LOT of men out there who don't give a shit about who I am, they just want to use me as tangible evidence that they got off using something OTHER than their hand.

That attitude seems fairly common online, but I, thankfully, have not encountered it in person. My friend once showed me a completely horrible website where the purpose was to complain about how feminism and women's rights had made women too uppity and causes many men to be single.

Oh GOD have I ever seen this. The men in online forums cannot see women as anything but fuckholes, and if a woman is 'unattractive'? Well, then they'd rather she just die. I've actually ran into dudes in these communities who compare seeing 'unattractive' women on the street to being raped. Makes me wonder what they'd be like in real life...scum of the Earth? Garden-variety sexists? Or hiding behind a veneer of quietness and goodness, only to have a whole second personality hidden on the computer screen?

Nice post. This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. I have two thoughts on this. Sorry if it's kind of a rant:

Firstly, I've noticed that contemporary hetero men and women have become sort of sexual competitors against each other.

It used to be back in the day that men competed with other men for women, and vice versa.
An extreme example of unchecked male competition is polygyny. Yet for every man with several girlfriends/wives, there will be several men with none. And thus, the scenario more than not was accompanied by some kind of male violence, either as a result (men dying in war and the surviving men taking additional wives) or as a direct cause (men killing other men specifically to have access to women).

Now there is a new game in town. These days players are back in style, but people are supposedly more civilized. The twist now is that the man sees the woman as his competitor to be conquered. And by definition if he wins (aka scoring) then she loses. This mentality is discussed as part of the psychology around pick-up. I believe this thinking, when taken to the extreme, creates contempt for women on the part of men because people in general do not respect losers; hence the loss of respect that some men feel after sleeping with a woman. Furthermore women who are considered physically unattractive are despised for not even being worthy of the conquest or the "game".

The second thought is that sometimes I think that the culture of man is to have contempt for everyone, including other men. They simply put up with women for the sex. As evidence is the persistence of truly senseless violence committed by men against men. But what's fueling it today?

I read an article just last week about gangs in LA killing over graffiti turf. A young man proclaimed that having one's artwork painted over, was to lose one's honor. To me it is absurd that a person would kill another human being over paint on a cement wall. But it really got me thinking about what's really on the minds of men.

In one study I read, pride was the one emotion that men consistently attribute to themselves more so than women. Today I am now see whole communities based on pride where honor comes before all else. You can also find these themes present throughout pop culture, The Godfather, for example.

So I'm wondering if women just caught in the middle of something grander? Or is it that some men really do hold a special place in their hearts to hate us but simply can't ignore the urge to fuck us?

I suppose it would be prosaic of me to point this out, but, still. You read a quotation from a few gangbangers in the L.A. Times and it got you thinking about what's on the minds of men (that overarching collective noun)?

Huh.

"I suppose it would be prosaic of me to point this out, but, still. You read a quotation from a few gangbangers in the L.A. Times and it got you thinking about what's on the minds of men (that overarching collective noun)?"

SOME People are always complaining that few discuss the fact that MEN (that overarching collective noun) are disportionately victimized by other men (that overarching collective noun).

This fact transcends cultures, class, religions, borders and history.

So, pardon me for pointing out the common denominator.

It's not the first time a man of sound mind has said that honor is worth killing for. Maybe we should listen?

To be honest, I've BEEN one of those men, but fortunately decided I didn't want to be like that. The reason I hated women, not going with all men here, are as follows.

1. Women do not meet what we were fed to believe.

To a person who does not have a lot of experience with women, a women should be kind, caring, understanding, and sympathetic to a man. In other words, we view women as something special to protect, maybe a person beyond us that we can apsire to one day become.
This rarely happens to men who are, ugly, socially awkward, or people women aren't actually attracted to. That pisses us off. Of course, women aren't necessarily like this anyway, they're just people. But it still pisses us off. We hate arrogance in women, we hate the fact that women can get a man whenever they want, but complain about there being no men. How spoiled and rotten. We don't have that luxery. As such, we don't see you as a real women, just a crappy spoiled thing that gets everything we cannot have, and complains about it or lords it over other people.

2. Men who hate women have been mistreated or neglected by women. I have a fairly scarred face from acne, and shy. I'm fairly handsome though, so I get looked at by women at a distance. However, when I get closer to women, there's a point when they can see that I'm pretty scarred up. That's when the rejection of me hits. Do you know what its like to be rejected by countless number of women? You're a nice guy, you're not bad. Then when that same women flaunts over some other nicer looking guy, you start to hate. Women don't care about looks huh? Bull. Women are kind to all people huh? Bull. They're just in it for themselves, there's nothing special about them, and your expectations and dreams of finding a wonderful women are smashed.

Do I excuse this hate? No, its wrong. I've worked to overcome it. Up to 25 and no girl friend, but I don't hate anymore. I understand that women are just as hateful, selfish and greedy as men. But I also understand that women are as kind caring and loving as men. Equality between the sexes must go both ways.