Oh, I am SO sorry you had to endure that this summer!

Hopefully this will make you feel better and not worse, but only a minority of my girlfriends have taken their husband's name. In fact, it's a conversation we all know we need to have with each successive bride, rather than assume either way.

I do think there is some "harmless" expectations in this realm, where some people just make stupid assumptions and don't mean any harm, they just have certain expectations due to age or what they've been exposed to. But *damn* the guy who claimed you were infringing on his rights? A-HOLE.

I am very happy for you that you were able to work up the courage to write this post.

As someone who is preparing to begin a life with a military husband (and who has already been dipping her toe in it), I have a morbid fascination with the hypermasculinized, patriarchal culture of the military.

I am going to keep my last name, and I am of the confrontational sort, sometimes, so I'm kinda looking forward to chewing people's heads off when they question my choice. :)

I wish you the best, and I hope that your example can help some people around you question their assumptions.

Those are some horrible people you work with. I hope things get better.

I'm terribly sorry to hear about what you've had to go through. I hope it gets better.

Now then: I really, really, really, amazingly, transcendently apologize for making this about me, because I know it isn't. And I know a lot of my comments could be construed as out of line; I'm sorry. Really, I am.

I just don't know what to do about my name. "Moore" isn't my last name, although my name contains it. I don't go by my last name on the Internet because it's unique - literally, the only people who have it are in my immediate family.

Basically, I don't know what to do about my name since it's a damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't situation. If I get married and change my surname, I'll get criticized for that. But if I don't change my name, I still have to go around with my father's last name. My father is an asshole in every possible way. I hate him and resent having to cart around his name - and having that decision be framed as the right thing to do, from a feminist standpoint. I've asked my mother if I can take her maiden name but she won't let me.

I just have no idea what the right option is here. And again, apologies for making this about me. If I was able to post on the community blog I'd make this a separate post, but the site won't let me. Please forgive me.

Thanks for this post! I'm getting married next month and definitely keeping my name, too.

With kids who have been trained to call you the wrong name, I'd turn it on them in a joking way. Start calling any kid who calls you Mrs. HisName "George." Then, when they get confused explain that if they want to be called by their correct name, they should call you by yours.

And as for others who address you incorrectly after you've asked them not to, I'd probably go the passive aggressive route and get up in the middle of the conversation or pretend that I'm not listening. When they called me on it, I'd say something like, "Oh, I thought you were talking to someone else. My name is Ms. Mylastname."

But that's me. If you're cool with your name, that's all that matters. People who continue to call you something else are acting disrespectfully and quite rudely. Maybe you could tell them that if they continue, you will file a complaint. I don't know.

In any case, good post!

To katemoore:

Legally, you can change your last name to anything you want. Personally I wouldn't necessarily go with your mother's maiden name if she's said she doesn't want you to, but you can pick anything you like. Maybe use "Moore" if you're happy identifying yourself with it.

You can also change your name to your husband's surname if you don't mind waiting until you get married to make a change. Don't worry about being criticized for it - I'm never sure why feminists criticize other feminists for their choices! You're looking at your decision with feminist ideals in mind, which is great - now you can make an informed decision about what's right for you. :)

Wow, I'm really sorry that you have to deal with that. Especially the former friend who claimed you were infringing upon his beliefs - entitlement much?

Good luck dealing with them! I hope you can open a few narrow minds.

When my parents got married, they both changed their names to something entirely new. I always planned on hyphenating my name when I got married, but my name and my husband's names are common english words, and when you put them together, they sound like porn. Clearly. You think I am joking, but I am not. So I just kept my name.

After we got married, my MIL knew this, but seemed to forget when she bought everyone plane tickets to a family trip. My ticket had my nickname and my husband's last name, so it didn't match my ID at all. They wouldn't let me on the plane.

As for KateMoore, I really really understand your predicament. Now, as my daughter is entering school, I am having trouble because we have different names. I might end up having my husband's name for legal stuff and my name for professional stuff. But my husband doesn't want me to for practical reasons, and because he had to fight his family on the issue and doesn't want them to win.

I think the whole name game being a litmus test for either traditional values or feminist values actually just makes things harder on everyone. Whatever you do with your name, you are still a feminist.

It feels almost weird to me that people would have a problem. Out a group of seven people that include me and my close friends, only one of us has a mother who took on her husband's last name (and she hyphenated it.) Another's father changed his last name to match his wife's. All of our mother's have different last names, and have had their own careers. I guess I kinda take that for granted, but it apparently ain't so comment if it causes your friend such immense suffering.

I'm also sorry you have to put up with those people! Congrats on sticking to your guns so far.
This probably doesn't make you feel any better but I can remember one of my high school teachers (not that long ago) saying that the only reason a woman would call herself "Ms" was because she didn't want men to know if she was married, and that was unfair on men.

KateMoore: As others said, you can choose any name you want, so why not pick one that you like? If you want to pick something meaningful, maybe take on the name of someone you admire or your maternal grandmothers?

Something similar happened to me my first year of law school. We were sitting and waiting for class to start and I was talking to a classmate and she was debating whether or not to change her name back to her maiden name. I told her that if it is easier for business purposes or if she just plain wanted to, I don't see what the big deal is.

A few WOMEN who overheard our conversation said that if a woman does not take a man's name it means that they are not really married - it is an insult to him. I went to an historically black university with many middle class and upper middle class socially conservative Christian women. I was shocked by this event. This was in 2003!

This is still a big issue with people. Anytime you try to "screw" with marriage in any way, people get very offended. People have very strong feelings about the institution in our culture and are so sensitive about the slightest things...

P.S. Guy that said he wants to get married so that he can have sex whenever he wants...I assume he is going to ensure that his future wife is willing first? And why can't he have sex now? The same rule applies: a willing partner.

I fail to understand why many women think it's obligatory to take their husbands' last names.

As for me: no thanks.

Thanks for all the comments!

This summer I have been all about informing people when they are saying things that are harassing, and discriminatory to women... unfortunately that feels like an every day occurance here. One guy told me not to bother because we were already equal... I informed him he needs to look around.

Its really hard educating, as a fair number of the white males I work with have the idea that we are already equal.... they do not see their privledge, or they turn it into a remark on how if they were to apply for a government/RCMP/Police job they would be discriminated against (employment equity).

Its an uphill battle.... however, not one that I am going to give up on yet. People do not understand why I did not change my name (everyone on both sides of my family has, and I believe that everyone I went to high school with who is married has changed their name)...and even if they do understand, they do not support and feel like poking fun at it. I have a whiteboard on the door of my room here at camp, and a few times last summer and at least once this summer someone has erased my name off the white board, and put my husbands after my first name. It never ends...

It can be a pain. My husband is in the Air Nat'l Guard, but luckily for me I don't have to deal with the same things you do because I don't really have contact with the military. From what I hear from my husband they (the people he works with) like to keep the patriarchal order and can be sexist and rude in order to maintain the status quo. So you have my sympathy.

I kept my name when I got married. It was kind of a tough decision for me because I'm in a similar situation as KateMoore. I have no relationship with my father but I have his name. And I wouldn't change my name to my mother's because the same goes for her. Unfortunately my parents are not the greatest people. I thought about changing my name to my husband's name because of this. But I'm stubborn and don't want to go along with patriarchal tradition. Also, my current name is pretty common so I would not be easily linked to my father. It is also just easier to keep my name for professional reasons, and I don't want to go through the hassle of changing every form of identification for something I don't really want to do.

Huge pet peeve of mine is being referred to as Mrs. his first and last name. So obnoxious, like I don't even really exist. His parents like to refer to us as the (his last name)s. But they still write my name on checks for my b-day so I don't get bothered by it. But they also never pushed the issue, or even asked me to change my name. I think that they might have asked my husband about it though. My husband said he would have considered choosing a different name with me for both of us if his parents weren't still alive. He has a good relationship with his parents and his father would probably feel heartbroken/betrayed so he didn't want to do it. They also have an unusual last name, so anyone who has that name is related to their family.

my husband has a great last name. i love having it. why is this such an important issue?

I don't know what I'll do when I get married. I'm the last of my name (only child and neither my father or grandfather had any brothers), but it's a really hard-to-pronounce name and I don't really care for it. I'd like to keep it and possibly hyphen it to my children to keep the tradition going, but it's not a really great name and I would like to be able to tell people my name without having to spell it and explain that, yes, it is possible for an "i" to be silent.

My mom took my dad's name, but she could never stand being called "Mrs. Lastname" as it made her feel old and reminded her of her mother-in-law, who's kind of nuts. She really prefers people call her by her first name, and I'll probably be the same way, but you kind of have to have some last name. I would hate to be called by my husband's name without my permission, though. If you're an adult, you should be able to call yourself what you want.

"and a few times last summer and at least once this summer someone has erased my name off the white board, and put my husbands after my first name. It never ends..."

What in the Sam-Hill is this? Who are these losers working themselves up into a lather over an acquaintence's naming choice? If I were you, I wouldn't engage with these village idiots; as with trolls, they luuurrve to be fed!

The next time someone says something to you about your name, look them straight in the eyes and say: "You were born John Smith and you'll die John Smith. I was born Carrie Cortez [or whatever] and I plan to die Carrie Cortez. What makes you think I'm any less attached to my identity than you are?"

BTW, a woman being married to Harry Houdini and referred to as Mrs. Harry Houdini is indeed an erasure, and it's unthinkable that that's still acceptable in North America.

This conversation makes me very glad I'm from a culture in which women always keep their own names. Granted, she still keeps her male ancestors' names, and that's problematic, too.

very feminine, this is your first post, so I welcome you.

Women's names should not be a struggle. But in some countries, they are. The source of friction is some people's persistence that women *must* take the family name of their new husband. The issue has nothing to do with whether or not one, like you, likes one's husband's name or even his family members.

It's really not about the husbands at all, whom, presumably, most new wives love and respect.

It's about the fact that many women are, like many (non-transgender) men born in an Anglo societies, deeply attached to their lifelong identities and do not want to relinquish them because they entered a partnership.

My name is Okra Stew. I was Okra Stew when I was an infant. I was Okra Stew when I was a fat little gap-toothed grammer schooler. I was Okra Stew when I was captain of the soccer team and my name appeared on newspaper sport pages around the city. I was Okra Stew when I got my first college degree, magna cum laude. I was Okra Stew on when filling out the GRE application form, and Okra Stew when defending my graduate thesis. I am Okra Stew to friends and loved ones and enemies alike.

Just like John Smith has been his whole life.

TO expect me now to become Okra Fritter because I want to share my life with Potato Fritter is to expect me to forfeit my very self.

To paraphrase John Proctor in Miller's _The Crucible_, "Because it's my name! Because I can never get another one!"

Mama Mia commented at August 14, 2008 12:08 AM: "I think the whole name game being a litmus test for either traditional values or feminist values actually just makes things harder on everyone. Whatever you do with your name, you are still a feminist."

...and in some cases, keeping your original family name is a traditional value too. In the Iranian mainstream, it's not traditional for brides to change their names. I heard that also goes for Arabic-speaking cultures, Han Chinese cultures, Icelandic cultures, etc.

I also found some interesting info on the history of surnames and marriage in Kolomea/Galicia here: http://www.shtetlinks.jewishgen.org/Kolomea/surmar.htm

Hrm. Perhaps. I'd probably have to wait until I finish college, just to minimize paperwork as much as possible. The idea of changing my name to that of someone I admire seems good, but then if they're alive I'm afraid they might think of it as creepy, or infringing on their heritage, or something.

There was a thread about this here about a year ago, is all, and it made me cry. I don't have thick skin. It's just not who I am. So I get defensive.

Sorry again for making this about me. I know it isn't. I really wish this could be split off or something.

Katemoore: About finishing college before changing your name, check out the college policies first! I've discovered that our university will only ever issue you with one copy of your certificate and that if your name changes afterwards, they won't change the certificate to match. Take it from someone with two first names, when the names on all your official paperwork don't match, it can be a really big pain!

My experience with the military includes the following:

-having lived (past tense, thank whoever) in Savannah, GA - which has two large bases, one within the city and just outside it
-having family friends with family members in the military - most notably a good friend my mother made in Savannah whose husband is army
-watching Army Wives as a total (un)guilty pleasure

So I'm not going to pretend my experience is all that extensive. But my impression has been that the military as a whole has a long way to go on the feminist front (other areas as well, but that's another issue for another day). Especially when it comes to wives and how they impact the soldier's "manhood." I've seen/heard of lots of not wanting their wives to work or have friends, basically enforcing a very 1950's June Cleaver thing. But, like I said, my experience isn't all that extensive (and I'm aware some of it is fictional, lol). Actually I hope I'm wrong about this and my mom's friend just has an especially douchey husband that isn't the norm (the only reason she is still with him has something to do with waiting until they've been married 25 years or he's been in the service 25 years or something so she would automatically get half his benefits in a divorce - I think she only has about two years left).

Re: last names, I am reminded of the Facebook status of a recently married high school friend. It was something like "Ashley finally changed her name on Facebook so Mike would stop complaining about it." I gagged. It was enough that she did change her name - that's her decision, I don't judge without knowing her reasons. But what got me was that her husband was bitching because she didn't change her name on Facebook right away? I mean, this was up within a few days of changing their status to married. Like he owned her now and wanted to stake his claim. I don't know if that's really what he thought, but that was how it appeared.

Apparently when my parents got married (um...1971? Somewhere in there) my mom got flack from people because, though she did change her name, she started using her maiden name in place of a middle name. I guess in her Catholic-school, Italian upbringing that was radical.

I was watching Jeopardy once, and during the annoying contestant interview part (which I normally ignore, but this caught my eye) one of the contestants said that when he got married, both he and his wife changed their names to something new. I was, of course, all "rock on!" but Trebek had a really hard time with it. I think he said something like "so X isn't your real last name?" (eyeroll) and the guy replied with "yes, it's my real last name, it just isn't the one I was born with." And I grew a new fondness for the "suck it, Trebek" skit from SNL...because that's pretty much what I was saying.

If I ever get married I plan to keep my own name. If the guy has an issue with that, I'll let him explain of course, but I doubt it would change my mind. In fact, depending on his explanation it might indicate his not being someone I should marry. Of course, I don't even have a boyfriend, so this is all speculation.

wow...sorry that comment was so epic

To me, deciding what your last name is going to be in a matter of personal choice. It doesn't harm anyone- if they think it does, they're more than a little nuts.

I don't want to marry, but if for some reason I did, there is no question: I would keep my last name. Most women in my family have: some haven't married at all (my mom), some have reverted back after divorce (my aunt), and some kept it after marriage (my cousin).

At the same time, my friend just got married, and one thing that was very exciting, and meaningful to her, was taking on her husband's last name. To each their own.

One place where last names can get tricky is when people have children though. My best friend had a baby, and although she is not married to her boyfriend, she gave her daughter his last name. Which I don't like- because I really don't like her boyfriend.

Its amazing how complicated last names can be. But everyone should be able to make a choice without other people harassing them about it. And you are definitely being harrased. I think you should look into filing a complaint. The way they are treating you is NOT okay.

i think it's hilarious that these people think - no, assume! - that your name is any of their business at all, and that they're somehow entitled to an opinion on the matter. like it affects them At. All.

and telling kids to lie? mmmhmm. there's some AWEsome family values right there. yeesh.

Throughout the summer, I have been reading feministing every day to keep in some sense of sanity. Its interesting how in a system which indoctrinates patriarchal systems within the people which are the core of the organization, leads us self-assured women to self-doubt when things that enforce patriarchy occur.

I keep doubting that I am justified in feeling harassed, as it sometimes seems like no big deal, that worse things are happening.