I do not believe women are equal with men yet. But I do think that a whole lot of the male anxiety about 'identity' is insane. If your friend wants to understand a gender identity crisis, maybe he should get thinking about what it's like to be a woman and see EVERY president be male, women virtually absent in history books and absent from debates about whether women should be able to control how many children we have or use contraception. Seeing affirmation of men's place in the world everywhere you look. Mozart's sister was a great composer, but we only hear about him. That's just one of many cases. And he should try feeling like a woman does, hearing that we should all shut up because we've got the vote when women are still trafficked, raped and abused, even butchered physically and forbidden to make eye contact in places like Iran.

Um, soz slightly for the rant, but I get so angry when people just can't see it. I know it's your friend I'm ranting about, not you.

As for the implications of a feminized world, did he mean matriarchy, or equality? In which case, does he mean that if men were in the same position women are in now, that'd be way too bad, but it's okay as it is because he happens to be part of the sex which is on top? That's just plain selfish.

If by 'feminized world' he means a society where men and women are equal, he is in fact insulting men, because he is implying that men do not have an identity except for the oppression of women and that their having a purpose must be at the expense of women. The loss of this effortless seat of power by virtue of simply being male seems to be the fear for those who are, as you say, insecure, and lash out by beating or raping women or even just working as hard as they can to preserve patriarchy.

Tell him that in a more feminist world, men's identities would not necessarily be dependent on their sex organs. His identity could be whatever he wants it to be.

As Nettle Syrup made clear, things AREN'T equal. I would call the currnet world 'masculinized' WAY before I would call it 'feminized'.

I don't see what would be so bad about all humans, including men basing their identity on being 'caring and compasssionate' to others, NOT being violent, exploitive or oppressive to others. That would solve a lot of world problems.

Marc, a male feminist on this site, said this about a male anti-porn author in a post:

"Robert Jensen isn't interested in being a man. He is interested in being a good human being. "

It reminded me of this discussion. Why does 'being a man' or 'being a GOOD man' need to differ from being a decent person who is considerate to others and tries to treat others fairly and with respect?

first of all, what "feminized world" is he talking about? Because it certainly isn't this world where women are still treated like chattel and still have half the rights but double the responsibilities that men do.

second, you could ask him who he is. Tell him to take his self definition away from his genitalia and then answer you.

Really, is there any reason anyone should have to define themselves by what is in their pants? sounds restrictive to me. I mean, I have a vagina, but it is not my sole means of self definition. I am many other things besides female, considering that female bits were something I was born with by chance. I can choose who I am, and I guess in a world where we have managed to achieve equality between peoples regardless of genetic differences, it will be the responsibility of the individual to decide who they are without being lazy and expecting stereotypes to do the work for them.

As someone has pointed out, men and women aren't equal yet, but as a male, what I feel is my place in this society is not only to work towards equality, but to continue working towards it. I don't think it's too much to say that not all men are feminists and many still hold the traditional values that confirm their own "superiority." As feminists, it's our job to continue to provide a good example to all those boys growing and learning about how to treat others by watching adults.

So, even if we make the big assumption that equality has been reached, it's still new enough to require activists to maintain this equality.

Really, feminism has largely been quite freeing for men since it asks that we quit making people conform to limiting gender stereotypes and just let them be themselves. If your buddy is some sporty, sweaty, hunter guy - fine, no one is telling him not to be. Yet, if he also likes to knit while his latest kill is roasting over the fire - we believe he shouldn't be diminished for that. Feminism asks that opportunities are open to everyone, which choices you make are still your own.

As long as men aren't threatened by women having access to opportunities that were traditionally theirs alone, they shouldn't be threatened by feminism. It is simply time that people's identities are form by their actions, words, and interests rather than their genitalia.

I interpret his use of the word "feminized" more as being a complaint about a perceived disintegration of the macho American John Wayne* stereotype within a more diplomatic, war-averse world. You know -- the fucked idea that, in the parlance of grouches like Maureen Dowd, that red-blooded tough guys are losing out to graceful, calm, "feminized" men like Barack Obama.

A feminist, equality-oriented world is far from a feminized world, however, at least in the way "feminized" is often understood as pejorative and as denoting stereotypical aspects of femininity.

In a feminist world, men compete with women, fight wars alongside women, negotiate family roles with female partners, aren't disadvantaged in the office for taking family leave, have no social or work repercussions to fear for loving men, expect serious investigation and imprisonment for sexual and other violent assaults, have no masculinity to prove, consider women's rights human rights, and, if they so choose, become women themselves. And a whole lot more.

* Not ragging on John Wayne, who had serious charisma and whose westerns -- Red River, The Searchers, Stagecoach, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance -- are some of my favorites ever.

"He said that women are seen as caring and compassionate and males as violent and brute, now that that notion is changing, what should be the new male identity?"

Why, oh why, would he want to hold on to that if he really and truly thinks that's what being a man is?

I have my own ideas about masculinity, modeled after the men I've known and the man I've become, and violence and brutality have no place there. In my experience, violence and brutality are the coin of small men whose only strength is physical, with the emotional reserves of children. I count some serious fucking warriors among my close friends, but they are never violent unless it's absolutely necessary, and never, ever brutish.

But in an ideal world, we wouldn't tie our identities to gender much at all, and would be much more interested in being a good person than being a good man or a good woman.

I have no idea what your friend was talking about, but I'd like to pipe in on what SarahMC said.

Because a lot of men get confrontational when they find out I'm trans and ask me 'what the hell do you think makes you a man? I end up asking a lot of men what they think makes them men. To be completely honest, without exaggeration, between 90-95% of the answers I've heard to date have either to do with violence, being 'on top' in bed, and the fact that they have a penis.

So you're right, I think that a feminist world would be a world where men could be what they wanted without always having to prove themselves by saying "well, I have a penis!"

"He said that women are seen as caring and compassionate and males as violent and brute, now that that notion is changing, what should be the new male identity?"

My simplified answer (and ignoring the other issues of whether women are really equal etc) is this: I think that if everyone in the world could be caring and compassionate (and this wasn't considered just a 'woman's' thing) then the world would be a much better place. If, because of feminism, more men start adopting this 'identity' then they should embrace that. I see no downside to compassion or caring. There are lots of women out there too who aren't very caring and compassionate, but I think that would be a good thing for everyone to strive for.