I wonder why "K" doesnt put her foot down in the house? Why would she let her husband get away wth this neglect? I continue reading about women who choose to quit work because the house gets so hectic that they drop out. Or they employ the superficial way of deciding who stays home by discerning who makes the most at the time they have the kids. This method doesnt focus on the issue of men (this is mainly a hetero problem) not upholding their end of house and child duties. Its also highly superficial. If Steven Hawking made less than his partner and decided to quit, we'd never have our innovative ways of looking at the universe. What about female astrophysicists, politicians, cause fighters, business owners, ect. You dont just quit because you make the less, at that moment, of the two of you. How are women going to shape our society if were not in it? I want to reference a female "Steven Hawking," not a male. I want future society to have a thousand women (of all races, sexual orientations) they could reference off the top of their heads, of women who are responsible for positively shaping, innovating and transitioning society.

These issues are the same problems I remember seeing in my household as a toddler. My father would put me in day-care on Saturdays to go golf with his friends, and my mother would feel guilty that she was working. Thank luck she never quit.

Have you asked K if she feels comfortable with her husband staying home with the baby? Before assuming that she has asked and he has refused, there is another possibility here. I remember when my daughter was just a few months old, I did most of the intensive parenting because I was home, breastfeeding, yada yada. My husband hadn't yet had a chance to figure everything out. I was a bit nervous leaving him with the baby since he was kind of wobbly, if that makes sense. In my intense mothering mode, with how nervous I was about the baby's safety, I was just plain scared of leaving him with her for a whole day the first few times. She may not yet feel comfortable with him taking over when he hasn't gotten some of the basics down, which is not uncommon in the beginning, while the nanny probably has experience with these things. It may be that she asked and he said no, but it is entirely possible that she doesn't want him to do it. The fact that she noted that he doesn't know how to get the baby to sleep makes me wonder about that. He may not be so bad after all.

In terms of the flexibility (or lack of flexibility) at work, though, that is clearly a problem.

This is all just my perspective having gone through it. May not be relevant at all.

I had thought of that, Mama Mia. And I do not know for sure. But I would hope that if that were the case, M would insist on taking care of their son one day a week, and devote time to learning how baby stuff works.
If K is just being stubborn, and refuses to "let" M care for the baby on his own, then she is being short-sighted. It's just such a simple solution to their dilemma, you know? The baby is just as much M's as he is K's; why should K have to give M her "permission" to care for the baby? If he doesn't learn now, when will he learn?
Last week K had a speaking engagement in town, and M did stay home for the day with J (not sure where the nanny was). K said M complained about it. WTF?

The attitude of the management is just so typical. My partner is a very good "hands-on" dad, and our daycare has both our numbers for both my daughter and stepdaughter, but they NEVER call him. In the case of my stepdaughter, they'll call her mom and then me, and then her grandma, before they'll finally call his cell. This in spite of the fact that we've told them that his work schedule is flexible, and even on days when her mom is in a meeting, I'm working to meet a deadline, Grandma's out of town, etc. We can all three ask them to call him instead, and they'll usually make one of us do it. Ridiculous!

On a related note, my brother and sister-in-law work for the same company and have onsite daycare (sooo nice!), and their managers were very reluctant to let my brother use his sick leave to take my nephew home when he was sick. They're both engineers, and work on different projects, so one will have a deadline coming up when the other doesn't. This would work out really well in terms of trading off on the unexpected childcare duties, except that everyone in their office always expects her to drop whatever she's doing and take care of the baby, even if his dad has nothing going on that day. And people always act so dismissive when I use this kind of example as one reason why women's careers don't advance as quickly as men's, even in identical jobs. People totally guilt my sister-on-law into taking time off when she doesn't need to, and then some male co-worker ends up completing her work and getting credit for it. Such bullshit.

SarahMC, your points are all good. If she is being stubborn, that's frustrating. And no, she shouldn't give "permission" for him to do his job. I think what has surprised me most about parenthood as I have watched my friends struggle with it and as I myself have struggled with it, is people behave in ways you (and they) would never have predicted. Women who knew they wanted to stay home are desparate to get out of the house, women who knew they wanted to work change their minds, too. Some women who demand equality and respect in every other area have trouble giving up control when it comes parenting, thus shutting dads out without realizing it.

If I was guessing what was happening in K's case, based on my internet degree in pop psychology, I would say it is this. M stayed home with J and when K came home, he complained that it was hard and really boring, because it is both. K was insulted and hurt, because she already knows that, duh, but she has been sucking it up and doing it all this time. What's his problem?! She then decides he doesn't want to help anymore, which may be the case, but may not, and therefore doesn't ask anymore. He knows she needs help, but she isn't asking for help, and since he is kind of scared of it, he doesn't push her to ask for help and lets her do it on her own. Down the line, she will resent him for not stepping up, he will resent that she doesn't treat him as an equal parent. It takes guts to insist on help and it takes guts to insist on helping. I can think of several couples I know that have followed this pattern.

I think that many very compatible, intelligent couples believe transitioning to a parenting couple won't be all that hard, but dynamics change so much in ways we don't understand, even while we are in it. We assume things will be like they were before, but they aren't.

All that said (and I know no one was asking), he could also just be a jerk. But I like to hope it is more complicated than that.

You are a good friend for being frustrated with it all.

SarahMC, your points are all good. If she is being stubborn, that's frustrating. And no, she shouldn't give "permission" for him to do his job. I think what has surprised me most about parenthood as I have watched my friends struggle with it and as I myself have struggled with it, is people behave in ways you (and they) would never have predicted. Women who knew they wanted to stay home are desparate to get out of the house, women who knew they wanted to work change their minds, too. Some women who demand equality and respect in every other area have trouble giving up control when it comes parenting, thus shutting dads out without realizing it.

If I was guessing what was happening in K's case, based on my internet degree in pop psychology, I would say it is this. M stayed home with J and when K came home, he complained that it was hard and really boring, because it is both. K was insulted and hurt, because she already knows that, duh, but she has been sucking it up and doing it all this time. What's his problem?! She then decides he doesn't want to help anymore, which may be the case, but may not, and therefore doesn't ask anymore. He knows she needs help, but she isn't asking for help, and since he is kind of scared of it, he doesn't push her to ask for help and lets her do it on her own. Down the line, she will resent him for not stepping up, he will resent that she doesn't treat him as an equal parent. It takes guts to insist on help and it takes guts to insist on helping. I can think of several couples I know that have followed this pattern.

I think that many very compatible, intelligent couples believe transitioning to a parenting couple won't be all that hard, but dynamics change so much in ways we don't understand, even while we are in it. We assume things will be like they were before, but they aren't.

All that said (and I know no one was asking), he could also just be a jerk. But I like to hope it is more complicated than that.

You are a good friend for being frustrated with it all.

Can I just add that I did not intend that to sound condescending, if it did? Sorry about that.

I don't think you were being condescending at all, Mama Mia! I see what you're saying, and I am certainly sympathetic to your arguments.
It's just such a bummer that so many couples default to gendered roles because it's expected and often easier than pushing back and demanding change.
It also bothers me that most people will insist that men earn more and hold more top positions in business because they're just naturally more ambitious and hard-working. They aren't forced to make the "choice" between a career and a family the way women are.
Fathers are not treated the same way as mothers in the workplace, and men are not expected to juggle childcare demands and work demands the way women are. Women are working the "second shift" in addition to their paid jobs, and yet we're told we just musn't be up to the challenge when we succumb to the pressure to "choose." How much of a choice is it, really?

All these issues women face are invisible, when you think about it.