I don't know about you, but I'm sick of seeing there's a new comment on some thread and then clicking, only to find out it's a troll post. It's not only annoying, but it's also pretty weird. I don't go on conservative blogs and fill their comments pages with my opinions. Why not? There are plenty of reasons. It would make no difference, because they've heard it all before. Anyone dedicated to a cause has heard most of the major criticisms before - that's how come there are those bingo cards and drinking games, to highlight that irony.
After a troll post on a given website will be a bunch of people trying to explain - breaking it down into language that a one year-old could understand - that no, feminists don't hate men, gays don't all have AIDS or whatever. Then what usually happens is that the troll quotes your post line-by-line with a predictable and poorly interpreted retort for every sentence. They usually conclude with some variant of my special troll favourite: 'Damn feminazi biased scum, I don't know why I bother!' No, I don't know why you bother, either. Damn, you'd think we dragged you here. Granted, no matter how many times you insist you've said your two cents and you're out of here, you always come back. Strange.
A lot of it is along the lines of 'You're arguing from a biased perspective!' No shit, Sherlock. That's why we're here: because we've already worked through the rest of it. That's like crashing a Jehovah's Witness meeting for a discussion on religion and then complaining that they're arguing from a biased perspective (not that I *personally* believe JV's are comparable to feminists ;) ). Or like going to a Richard Dawkins conference and repeatedly interjecting with your creationist talk. Understandably, everyone would get sick of you and want to chuck you out. I wouldn't expect anything else if I went on an MRA website and started posting my feminist opinions. If I did that, I'd be a troll. That's why we call you trolls: not because of what you're posting, but the fact that you post it here in the first place and then complain when - surprisingly - people don't agree with you.
Yes, we should talk and share opinions. That's why there are comments. As the name of the website suggests, this is where we talk about things from a feminist perspective, meaning that we've already established a common philosophy, and we're arguing within the boundaries of that philosophy. Why do we do this? Because we've heard all the rest before. We hear it every day, a million times a day, in other places. If you don't like that, well tough luck, but don't throw your teddy in this corner. This is a place where we go for a BREAK from all that. I wish people would have some respect for that. I disagree vehemently with conservatives, but I don't invade their space and then present myself as a victim, under attack from a load of 'biased' people, no matter how wrong I might think they are. There need to be places where we can discuss these things from our perspective. If we want a discussion from any other perspective, we'll go looking for it. I'd rather post things without the trepidation that I'm going to get a thousand comments full of boring old junk - usually from the same person again and again.
I respect everyone's opinion and their right to express that opinion. But who benefits from a troll post? Nobody. It's not the same as posting on a non-specific site without a feminist message where there are probably feminists and non-feminists. You come here, you're gonna find feminists.
This is intended for the more intelligent trolls out there, the ones who actually have some logic in their brain. If you ARE just here because you want attention, then no amount of reasoning is ever going to reach you. So I look forward to the many oh-so-learned line-by-line responses I'm likely to get from you. To everyone else: don't let the trolls get you down!
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I vote we get them a whole box of feather boas, so they can flounce out of here with style.
You know, this is something I always wondered about, too. If I go onto a site that says something or believes in something that I don't agree with, no matter how much it may make my blood boil, I NEVER leave a comment. Arguing on the internet is about as pointless as taking a boat to the middle of the desert. It gets no one anywhere and just makes generally intelligent people look like idiots.
As and atheist, it always surprises me that many Christians will do their damnedest to try and convert me or tell me I'm destined for eternity in Hell, but I come across Christians every day and I don't say a word to them. I'm of the belief that people have every right to their beliefs and opinions no matter how goofy or irrational. As long as no one is getting hurt I don't care.
I just wish people would respect others, it's really not that hard.
I totally agree that it makes no sense for them to come on here. But a lot of them are people with nothing better to do with their time and they enjoy the arguments. There was the one post a couple days ago (we all know which one) where there was an insane amount of back and forth argument between the blogger and a troll. I think the best thing to do is not to argue with them. I think we should try our hardest to just let the troll's post go unanswered. Otherwise they will quote our response line by line and it gets out of hand (trolls arguments tend to get worse and worse the more they write).
Is there a certain procedure we should use to report bad trolls to the admin? Hopefully someone can answer me.
I've thought about that too, miki mouse. Perhaps we could all e-mail them about certain posters? Perhaps there should be an option, like there is on Youtube, to flag comments if it gets out of hand? I mean, not just disagreements, but when the comments become offensive, such as explicitly racist, homophobic or whatever - but also the just plain useless as well. Maybe we should e-mail the admins to suggest such a scheme?
I agree that if a comment is flagged as offensive by several readers, say five, then the post should be removed. Or something like that. Reading troll posts can be disturbing and an invasion of a space that is supposed to be safe for us. These people have no life so they go around bothering others who want nothing to do with them.
Also, it seems like trolling comes from a deep-seated feeling of insecurity in one's positions. Why else would someone feel the need to go somewhere where they know that no one will listen and that they will be actively attacked for what they say? It gives them "proof" that they are victimized and that their opinions of the people opposing them are right.
I propose doing what Shakesville does. Mock them. mock the shit out of them. don't bother responding to their points or giving them any shred of credibility at all. then report them to admin and get them removed.
*sighs* There's, once again, a misunderstanding of what trolling is.
Trolls are people who PURPOSEFULLY set out to upset you, so they can laugh at it. They don't troll because of insecurity in their position. In fact, their actual position is meaningless; they might decide that they want to, say, go post evolution facts on a creationist website next. All that matters is that they piss you off. They think it's funny.
The following, while you may not like them, aren't always trolls:
- Assholes
- People with no grasp of logic
- Insecure people
- MRAs
- People who bring up familiar talking points
- People who disagree with you
The fundamental difference is purpose. Trolls don't want to argue with you, or even change your mind. In fact, they DON'T want to change your mind. They want to provoke as much of a reaction as they can.
Therefore, the best reaction to a troll, I've found is to deprive him of his reaction. Ideally, this is moderator deletion (without much fanfare, though; the other thing trolls really like is attention). Otherwise, just ignore them.
And finally, dismissing someone by calling him a troll never works. If the person isn't a troll, you've just made an ad hominem argument. If the person is a troll, they know and are probably just fine with that fact.
Well said, Kate Moore. The term gets thrown around far too loosely. I've seen plenty of people get labeled a troll for arguing a point far more politely (and sensibly) than the accusers.
Here's an example http://www.feministing.com/archives/007637.html
Note that Alerwic/Aleric never once engaged in name calling, lost his head, or posted contradictory messages without a well-thoughtout point to make. As you can see in the end, he was getting lambasted and labeled a troll (even by the site administrators) just for disagreeing.
Though I've only done it a small number of times, I've certainly challenged posters on sites contradictory to my views (though always been polite about it). And I certainly relish having a good debate with a formidable opponent (or even with a hard-headed ninny) who's joined a debate in an on-line community I regularly participate in. I find most threads where everyone is in agreement to be totally boring and pointless unless there are substantial contribution of ideas being added to the discussion by responders.
Even within a feminist community there are many different views and often heated contention between different "camps." To suggest that we'd all be one cozy little community were it not for the "trolls" is erroneous. In arguments between the anti-pornstitution crowd (as they call themselves) and the pro-choice crowd (as I like to call them) should we keep our mouths shut when the agument comes up? In threads like this one http://feministing.com/archives/004282.html would you consider Hazel, Sally, BB and Dim Underwear trolls?
Good god, tl;dr
Speaking of which, is there a reason foxdie is still around?
I'm with Kate Moore. And please let's not do what Shakesville does! It's absolutely terrifying to someone intellectually under-developed like me who goes to a blog like that for edification, only to find the comment sections a maelstrom of bile and knee-jerk attacks of newbies by the bloggers. That kind of treatment of commenters is why I'm now reading Feministing instead. They scared me away.