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My Anti-Feminist Professor and This Week's Extra Credit Assignment Over *gasp* Feminism. =D

This semester I decided to take online courses, which was quite a change. My professor required that we each introduce who we are to the class via the course discussion board. I mentioned that I was a feminist in mine, because I feel that is a big part of who I am. My professor replied letting me know he was an anti-feminist, and felt that feminism is highly correlated with the rise of divorces, ADHD and other relationships. He also made it clear that this didn't mean he didn't believe in equal rights for women...

I responded to his posts, which then sparked a class discussion. Every week the professor posts an extra credit assignment which I take full advantage of. I woke this morning to find that this week's extra credit assignment was a 500 word response to the following questions:

A) How did you become a guy or a girl SOCIALLY? What molded you into your gender roles?

B) What are the gender roles for relationships, and how do you fit into your gender's roles for a relationship?

C) Has feminism helped America? Evolutionary psychologists argue that one of the reason that women have three times the anxiety as men (that is a fact - not an opinion) is due to the rise of feminism and women not being evolutionarily "fit" for the added stresses of work/school. Considering it is factual that women have three times the anxiety of men - do evolutionary psychologists have it right? Or is there another explanation?

Now, I have read more than enough material, and have enough life experience to give a thorough answer to the given questions. However, As far a part "C", I am having a hard time finding material and facts countering the argument that evolutionary psychologists pose. Women not being "fit" for the added stresses that we have fought for? Puh-lease.

I will have no problem providing a minimum 500 word response, I'm sure. I just want to make sure that I have solid supoort to part "c", which is the one that I've googled only to find articles titled worthless crap like, "Why Feminism Has Failed Women",and the like...No joke.

Posted by Divine Chaos - September 16, 2008, at 02:45PM | in Anti-Feminism
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60 Comments

[0+] Author Profile Page RiotGrrl said:

Maybe women have high anxiety, assuming it's fact, because when they at work and school they have to deal with sexist standards. They are stressed about being paid .70 for every dollar a man earns. Maybe women are stressed about being forced to fit into gender roles and having to fill old-fashioned gender roles rather than it being the other way around as the professor suggests. I'm lazy and don't feel like googling but you can probably spin it the other way as I did with my comments (working, educated women being forced into gender roles by society).

I know a lot of the sexist commentary and treatment that I have experienced has stressed me out. This includes street harassment, sexist bosses, sexist teachers...Sure school and work can bring stress (it does for men too), but it also brings fulfillment which can counter the stress. Like when I achieve something like a degree, stress is lifted.

[0+] Author Profile Page nightingale said:

I'm going to leave you high and dry for actual articles, but here's what you should look for to help you argue against C:

Women have more financial troubles than men. They have to work harder in their field to excel than men. At home, they have more housework than men, particularly if they are also mothers, in which case raising children is more of their responsibility than men. Women's beauty standards are more stringent than men's. Life is harder for women, due to sexism, so it makes sense that women would have more anxiety. All of these contribute incredible stress more to women than men, which could lead to increased anxiety, and can be allievated by feminism.

In addition, you could look for statistics/anecdotal evidence on stress levels prior to women's lib, or in housewives today. Many women were depressed and anxious before the "added" stress of school and work. I don't know how easy it would be to find information on that, but it depends on what your professor is willing to accept. Would he be opposed to citing Desperate Housewives? Heh.

Or, if possible, compare it to race anxiety. Do black people have more anxiety than white people--and if so, would it be at all acceptable for us to suggest it is because white people deal with stress better? Of course not, even though white and black evolution was different, it's ridiculous and racist to blame it on genetics and not very, very different situations.

Or you could even look at anxiety in different, less sexist countries. If it's genetic, surely women in Germany, Canada, France and Britain would have the same disparity.

Good luck!

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

I agree with you 100% RiotGrrl. I'm playing with words here and slowly receiving some findings that aren't completely sexist/ignorant, whether it's hormonal differences, men being under-diagnosed (because, you know, men aren't "over-emotional" like us gals) , or even that women are not as reluctant to seek help for emotional difficulties (which is a strength, not a weakness, in my opinion)...

http://www.health24.com/mind/Anxiety/1284-1295,15701.asp

Thank you for commenting! I think I recently added you as a friend on myspace? Small world. Have a good one!

I'm with nightingale here: if the old commutation trick doesn't work then nothing will. It's amazing how many people are horrified if you take some study that's been done about women vs men and replace them with blacks vs whites. Studying differences in brain size? Racist. Why is it racist? Because the premise of the study itself is that there are relevant differences in brain size that underlie the assumed differences in intelligence. So why isn't it sexist? Because there's still a general consensus in our culture that there are relevant differences between the sexes that cause men to be better at everything that has any value in our society. Depressing.

[0+] Author Profile Page sweedie said:

That women are not "fit" to handle the added stress of work and school is bogus and I doubt these evolutionary psychologist are factoring in everything that can contribute to anxiety.

What they seem to have left out of their scientific research is the fact that women still work more hours unpaid than men and less hours paid then men, but with longer working days over all. Household work is still mainly in the hands of women. Cooking, cleaning, laundry, child care, grocery shopping. All this has not diminished at the same rate as our job and school hours have increased.

Also there is no mention of what they are comparing the anxiety levels with (besideds between the genders). Has there been a steady increase in anxiety in women since the 2nd wave of feminism or is this a new study with no comparison to the anxiety levels of housewifes in the earlier half of the 1900's? I think that is important to point out. If there is no comparison how do they know it has anything to do with feminism!?

I think you should be able to find sufficient material to prove that it is the combination of lower pay, longer work hours, more unpaid labor and less paid labor that is contributing to the higher anxiety in women. I tried to find some facts and numbers for you, but yeah...it's not fun to google these things because you find so much crap. I think you should be able to find some numbers though if you look hard, that shows the distribution of household work between the genders in familys where both are working. Also everyone knows the womans 77 cents to the mans dollar is a fact and has nothing to do with women not being as educated or as qualified. That should be factored in as an anxiety trigger.

I hope you teach your teacher a thing or two about feminism and why it is still needed and get an A in the process :-)

Sorry it's so long...got a little carried away...

I found this at Wikipedia:

"EP proposes that the human brain comprises many functional mechanisms,[2] called psychological adaptations or evolved cognitive mechanisms or cognitive modules designed by the process of natural selection. Examples include language acquisition modules, incest avoidance mechanisms, cheater detection mechanisms, intelligence and sex-specific mating preferences, foraging mechanisms, alliance-tracking mechanisms, agent detection mechanisms, and others."

Incest avoidance is not endemic to all societies, particularly among royalty. For example, in Hawaii, brother and sister would marry and produce offspring despite the fact that birth defects often occurred. Therefore, there is no universal psychological adaptation for all of homo sapiens. Therefore, extrapolating from whatever samples they used (and this should be brought out in this question; study design is easy to rig) to suggest a universal trait of women is not scientifically sound.

I would reject the entire line of questioning as specious. Asking you to assume this obvious lie is a childish game to assert dominance. It is NOT a fact; it IS an opinion.

Evolutionary psychology is, imho, a crackpot division of psychology, about as useful as Freduianism is nowadays. This is not to be confused with evolutionary biology which concerns itself with factual evidence from fossils and cultural artifacts. EP's basically take a 'fact' from the present extrapolate it back to the "ancestral Savannah" for a supposed reason for its development and then re-extrapolate back to the present and explain how that fact and its 'history' explain all of human behavior. Minus its egregious and often sexist claims, it can be quite hilarious reading.

For some light reading and fun try out Dr. Kanazawa over at the Psychology Today blogs, right now he's got a series of post about how Barbie is the evolutionary ideal and feminism needs to shut up about socialization.

http://blogs.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist

Another thought to take into account is that this '3x more anxious' is a very non-scientific fact and is probably self-reported anxiety. There is a great deal of variety in the levels of anxiety and the disorders of anxiety and depression are very gendered in psychology. And men do usually under-report anxiety and depression, hell they usually under-report most stuff like that.

[0+] Author Profile Page Waterpixi360 said:

I believe you can find reports that say women live (on average) longer than men do. So if we're less "fit" and less "adapted", why would we live longer--given the "3x the stress" we need to handle? I guess you can counter the question in "c" with other facts like this.

I'm kind of wondering what sort of data exists regarding stress levels of Americans historically, and did stress only go up with the first wave of feminism, or is it steadily rising? What data exactly is this fact based on?

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

You're correct, it's not fun to google this topic. As for the time reference...

Since the 1880's (when the feminist movement began worldwide)

"the evolutionary perspective suggests that the reason why women have three times the prevalence of anxiety disorders is that their body isn't designed to handle the stress of going to college - working full time jobs - having to provide for themselves on their own - but men have."

Basically this poses that women are not biologically selected to earn their own money, work, educate themselves, (AND be the homemakers)...yet.

Because of this, people are correlating ADHD with feminism, and tying it back to this beloved evolutionary perspective, claiming that because these women are bringing this anxiety into the home, they are causing their children (oh, mostly boys, might I add...which is ANOTHER story) to be diagnosed with ADHD. The argument is that prior to 1880 ADHD didn't exist, and women were at home, so their children weren't taken to daycares (which didn't exist as they do today).

Fun Fun Fun. *sigh* I have much to research, but will try to provide some insights along the way. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions. They are welcomed, for this is definately a way for me to add another teaspoon serving in the emptying of the sea of bullshit. (I love that post...Emptying The Sea With This Teaspoon by sillyfeminist)

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

You're correct, it's not fun to google this topic. As for the time reference...

Since the 1880's (when the feminist movement began worldwide)

"the evolutionary perspective suggests that the reason why women have three times the prevalence of anxiety disorders is that their body isn't designed to handle the stress of going to college - working full time jobs - having to provide for themselves on their own - but men have."

Basically this poses that women are not biologically selected to earn their own money, work, educate themselves, (AND be the homemakers)...yet.

Because of this, people are correlating ADHD with feminism, and tying it back to this beloved evolutionary perspective, claiming that because these women are bringing this anxiety into the home, they are causing their children (oh, mostly boys, might I add...which is ANOTHER story) to be diagnosed with ADHD. The argument is that prior to 1880 ADHD didn't exist, and women were at home, so their children weren't taken to daycares (which didn't exist as they do today).

Fun Fun Fun. *sigh* I have much to research, but will try to provide some insights along the way. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions. They are welcomed, for this is definately a way for me to add another teaspoon serving in the emptying of the sea of bullshit. (I love that post...Emptying The Sea With This Teaspoon by sillyfeminist)

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

You're correct, it's not fun to google this topic. As for the time reference...

Since the 1880's (when the feminist movement began worldwide)

"the evolutionary perspective suggests that the reason why women have three times the prevalence of anxiety disorders is that their body isn't designed to handle the stress of going to college - working full time jobs - having to provide for themselves on their own - but men have."

Basically this poses that women are not biologically selected to earn their own money, work, educate themselves, (AND be the homemakers)...yet.

Because of this, people are correlating ADHD with feminism, and tying it back to this beloved evolutionary perspective, claiming that because these women are bringing this anxiety into the home, they are causing their children (oh, mostly boys, might I add...which is ANOTHER story) to be diagnosed with ADHD. The argument is that prior to 1880 ADHD didn't exist, and women were at home, so their children weren't taken to daycares (which didn't exist as they do today).

Fun Fun Fun. *sigh* I have much to research, but will try to provide some insights along the way. I appreciate everyone's comments and suggestions. They are welcomed, for this is definately a way for me to add another teaspoon serving in the emptying of the sea of bullshit. (I love that post...Emptying The Sea With This Teaspoon by sillyfeminist)

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

I loathe my computer...
Disregard the fact that my last comment posted 3 times...must the the anxiety.

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

I loathe my computer...
Disregard the fact that my last comment posted 3 times...must the the anxiety.

[0+] Author Profile Page RiotGrrl said:

It does seem like the studies pointing the finger at feminism are sketchy. The link you (Divine Chaos) provided point out that men are under-diagnosed and don't report/seek help as much. Also, ADHD a result of feminism? I haven't heard that before. It's baffling that these studies don't consider other variables. Very shoddy research. I'm sure the food we eat (sugar/additives/pesticides), industrialization, television, gaming, hormones all have an effect on our attention spans/hyperactivity/stress. Yeah, nothing else has changed in the world since the 1800s besides the rise of feminism... Hopefully these studies aren't being taken seriously and are being criticized for the poor research design.

I don't think we're myspace buddies. My myspace is under Last Caress not Riot Grrl.

The last question doesn't let students share her or his own opinions about the issue. Instead, it might sway a student to write a paper that aligns with the professor's views simply to avoid getting a bad grade. If I were a student of this professor, I would probably feel that way and share the fact that evaluating a student's assignments based on her or his personal views is totally unethical and could cost your professor their job.

There are plenty of feminist psychologists who do research and publish articles and books. I'm sure you can find plenty of evidence that not enough feminism contributes to higher anxiety in women. Being an oppressed minority under the Bush administration certainly blows ass. Furthermore, the fact that women are diagnosed with anxiety disorders more often than men might be due to gender stereotyping and the fact that women are more likely to talk to someone, including a counselor, when they're anxious (which is probably also due to gender norms). Just look up some articles on women's inequality and anxiety on your school's online databases.

[0+] Author Profile Page Yoshimi said:

Hmmm. You could find an expert from another field of science to find flaws with the evolutionary psychologists' findings.

You could search the feministing archives for useful articles.

You could point to the Feminine Mystique as proof that working outside the home usually makes women less anxious.

That's all I can think of for now, but good luck!

[0+] Author Profile Page RiotGrrl said:

And I forgot to add that women were SO working outside the home before 1880. Actually, so were a lot of children. And the family unit has changed drastically over the centuries, I don't understand how a correlation could be made between feminism and ADHD in children, or even stress in women. Yeah, women were happy and stress free in the good ol days before they could vote and be a legal citizen. And so were children, especially when they were working in factories. Hopefully the people conducting these studies are dismissed as crackpots.

[0+] Author Profile Page SociologicalMe said:

Forget the internet on this one, and go to the university library. You need Anne Fausto-Sterling's book Myths of Gender, which systematically refutes every biological argument about gender roles you can think of. If that doesn't give you enough, search professional journals like Gender & Society. Most universities have library subscriptions to online professional journals, so you can do a keyword search, access the articles online, and bam- you have a list of published, peer-reviewed source material. Good luck!

First call the professor out on his unsupported bullshit distortions about what evolutionary psychology actually says.

The Red Queen, Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature author Matt Ridley argues that men are no more "adapted" for work outside the home than women.

on page 262, Chapter 8 Sexing the Mind, Feminism and Determinism:

"The practice of going out to work in an office or a factory is foreign and novel to the psychology of a savanna-dwelling ape. It is just as foreign to a man as to a woman.

Neither men nor women are evolutionarily suited to sit at a desk all day...or to sit at a factory bench tightening screws....

The fact that "work" became a male thing and "home" a female one is an accident of history"

He goes on to say:

"Therefore there is absolutely no justification from evolutionary biology for the view that men should earn and women should darn their socks."

He asserts that men and women (ON AVERAGE, emphasis mine) may be psychologically suited for certain professions over others, BUT THAT THERE IS NO GENERAL SUPPORT FOR SEXISM ABOUT CAREERS.


*************
For later reference if you want to challenge some of the over-reaching conclusions about evolutionary psychology on a deeper level, you may want the following book on hand:

AdaptING Minds by David J. Buller

This man has a PhD and is employeed by a higher ed institute and is this dense?! So depressing. I can feel my anxiety building ;). I wish you could say taht women have higher anxiety because they have to deal with sexist assholes. BUT that probably won't work....

I like what others have said. I would also encourage you to look at Faludi's Backlash stuff. She does a great job of spelling out how much of these ideas are myths. It seems you could organize your essay around the incorrect assumptions of the questions. And use previous research to prove the point. It may be true that women have more (reported/treated) anxiety but it certainly has NO causal link to feminism. So to use feminism as a scapegoat is ignorant.

[0+] Author Profile Page Dominique said:

Excuse me, but troglodytes didn't have office jobs. And they didn't go to school. How on Earth do you explain this in "evolutionary" terms, exactly? Furthermore, what is this crap about women only *recently* working outside the home??? White women in developed countries, maybe!!! Throughout human history, and in the vast majority of human cultures, women have been workhorses ploughing fields with the added burden of nursing and caring for children. In some places, women do *everything* while men go off and smoke and drink coffee with other men in cafés, which women are not allowed to go to (not that they have time to do this). Why? It's called "slavery."

What about the estimations of the salary that housework would be worth if it were paid? That would sort of seem like you were playing into his gender roles idea while pointing out how much responsibility women have historically handled and how if our mothers could handle all of that, there's no way we aren't "fit" for "real" work.

I forget the number, but so-called "women's work" would be worth well over 6 figures a year if it were paid. I bet it's more than that prof makes.

[0+] Author Profile Page Hara said:

Get a lawyer.

Keep track of all of the correspondence. Seek legal counsel before you bring it to the attention of the school.

You do not need to disprove what he suggested.

Theories and studies that supported sexist and racist theories were proven not only biased, but also grossly fraudulent, decades ago by anthropologists and etc.

Your professor needs to be dealt with legally.

Research statistics about the effects of domestic violence and rape on mental health. Perhaps women are more stressed because many women are under a constant threat of physical harm. If one in four women have been raped and many rape survivors have post-traumatic stress disorders, that could definitely be a contributing factor.

Plus, as others have said, just because women have(assuming his assertion is true) three times the anxiety of men doesn't mean they had less anxiety before the start of the major feminist movements.

Women are also more likely to be responsible for dependents, having a young child's life in your hands can be pretty stressful.

[0+] Author Profile Page Mama Mia said:

If you do choose to write the essay, you could also point out that as women in society receive more education, the society as a whole improves, the women have income to spend on their children, thus childhood mortality goes down, while GNP goes up. If protecting your offspring is not evolutionarily positive, I don't know what is.

Oh, and he is a jerk.

http://eserver.org/courses/spring95/76-100g/Meredith.html

[0+] Author Profile Page gopher said:

Wow. What a sexist pig. I'd bring this up with his higher ups. I most certaintly think they would disapprove of his assignment. As extra backing, you could support your claims of his ethics by submitting to them a transcript exposing his anti-feminist biases and sexist views. I've had to do this both with an online professor and a "real" professor when he claimed that men have created everything and therefore deserves to be attributed exclusively to them by the use of the term "mankind." He claimed that if I had a problem with it then I (along with all of womankind) should get together and discuss this with the men in politics. I took his comments straight to the department head.

[0+] Author Profile Page AgnesScottie said:

I don't have an article (this is something I learned in a psych class), but men have statistically higher rates of stress-related disorders (ulcers, heart attacks, etc.). One of the theories is that men have generally held more stressful careers than women (say, one of those guys selling on the stock market floor) I don't know if that's helpful, but it suggest that maybe men aren't cut out for careers they try to take on either.

[0+] Author Profile Page Mama Mia said:

AgnesScottie,
In that line, here is a list of suicide rates by gender and country. No matter the country, men are higher. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

However, just like this dumb prof's thesis is faulty, these stats do hide things. Men tend to use more effective tools, like guns, and thus are less likely to survive. But it does go to the point that men are not so much better off emotionally.

I am really interested in how this turns out and what you plan to do with this situation. And it is kind of fun to have a whole bunch of strangers help with an extra credit assignment.

[0+] Author Profile Page gomillis said:

Someone may have already mentioned this, but I wanted to add that instead of trying to google sources for counterarguments, I recommend finding scholarly articles. PsycINFO is a really comprehensive database for psychological articles, and I doubt you will have trouble finding solid evidence against your professor's claims.
On a side note, I would like to see HIS sources, because his claims sound really sketchy.

[0+] Author Profile Page Roja said:


the response to part C:

They probably were not evolutionary scientists (or maybe they were from a million years ago).

He needs to show who he is talking about. No evolutionary scientist would talk out of his/her ass like this in modern times, otherwise you couldn't call them a scientist.

His claim needs to be verified seriously! He needs to provide you with a name, credentials, and exactly which peer-reviewed journal he found this claim in.

Then you can examine whether this person was in fact a scientist, if the journal was a legitimate peer-reviewed modern journal and whether there was a response to that article by another evolutionary scientist.

As a scientist, I would personally like to know how your professor came up with this claim. Please let me know of his response if you asked him this question.

[0+] Author Profile Page Roja said:

ok, now I see that he has not qouted evolutionary sceintists but rather psychologists....

I think he still needs to explain his source. But I guess psychology includes a lot of speculation and opinion.

I also recommend an interesting book to your professor: Sexual Selections by Marlene Zuk

she is a scientist.

[0+] Author Profile Page beesknees said:

Your professor's last question does not show much academic rigor. He is making a claim about what "evolutionary psychologists" “say” as though they were a monolithic group and that this peculiar claim was a well-established theory, like “physicists agree on the theory of gravity”. But it's really not. He should have at least provided a reference to an actual professional evolutionary psychologist making this argument in a peer-reviewed journal, so that you could adequately assess it. It sounds like a really amateurish just-so story to me.

Regarding his claim that "women have three times the anxiety as men" he should have followed this with a reference too, instead of his rather aggressive, argumentative parenthetical, "that is a fact - not an opinion". It's actually an ambiguous claim and almost certainly an incorrect one. Is he referring to all manifestations of anxiety or to the clinical diagnosis of Anxiety Disorder? The report "Coping with Anxiety and Phobias" by Michael J. Mufson, M.D. of Harvard Medical School, gives the following statistics for the US: 6.6% of women will suffer from generalized anxiety disorder in their lifetime, versus 3.6% of men. The Anxiety disorders Association of America similarly claims that women are twice as likely to be affected as men. And why single out anxiety anyway? The World Health Organization claims "overall rates of psychiatric disorder are almost identical for men and women". If mental illness is to be taken as “proof” that one is “evolutionarily ‘unfit’" then men and women are equally “unfit” for the stresses of the modern world.

Also sorry to be pedantic, but his use of the phrase “evolutionarily “unfit”” (which, yeah I imitated above) is frankly ridiculous and shows that he is not very educated regarding evolutionary biology. “Evolutionary Fitness” is measured not by one’s anxiety levels but rather by the numbers of great, great, great, etc. grandkids one ends up with. Maximising one’s evolutionary fitness is not necessarily a desirable goal.

In refuting his argument it is worth noting that women exhibit similar greater diagnosed levels of anxiety relative to men, even in societies where many fewer women are in the workforce or education. For example this pamphlet: http://www.escwa.un.org/divisions/sd_editor/Download.asp?table_name=Documents&field_name=ID&FileID=632 produced by the World Health Organization provides references to studies showing that women in Eastern Mediterranean countries show much higher rates of anxiety and depression compared to men, despite (or because of?) their societies hewing more tightly to traditional gender roles, e.g:
"a population-based study in a poor urban area in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, estimated that 24% of women and 10% of men suffered from depressive disorders"

Women's rights IS found to be correlated with mental health. But the correlation is in the opposite direction to what your professor claims:
"In a sample of young, physically healthy women from primary health care centres in the Syrian Arab Republic, researchers found that the strongest predictors of mental health problems were illiteracy, involvement in a polygamous marriage and experience of physical abuse."

Also in the pre-feminist past women had very high rates of a “disease” called hysteria and men were very rarely diagnosed with it. Some of the symptoms of which would today lead to a diagnosis of anxiety.

Personally, I think if I had a professor who so indulgently entertained such a poor argument asserting that my gender marked me as "evolutionarily “unfit”” for education, that would provoke anxiety in me over whether or not he might try to "prove" his theory (consciously or unconsciously) by giving me lower grades or engaging in other discriminatory behaviour.

[0+] Author Profile Page jlw said:

I didn't read through each of the responses, so I don't know if someone has mentioned this yet, but one idea you could go with would be that idea that women entering the workplace has not been accompanied by men sharing equally in maintaining the household.

[0+] Author Profile Page jlw said:

Oh, and one more thing. I would ask him for his sources on this belief that women have that much more anxiety than men, so that you can judge their validity for yourself.

I haven't been able to read through all the responses to your post but I just have to say, your prof is an ass.

Psychology very well may have come up with the statistic/fact that women are more anxious then men. However, this only goes so far as a statistic. The statement that women are found to be more anxious then men does not assume or suggest any reason why and it certainly doesn't suggest that it is because women "just aren't fit for working"... wtf. This prof's bias is showing.

What he is suggesting is a hypothesis that some evolutionary psychologists have posed to explain this statistic. As some others have mentioned, there are clearly multiple factors to why this statistic might be, including: under diagnosis of men, work environment, the type of jobs women typically are employed in, lower wages, the "second shift" at home..etc.

I'm sure if you look into these issues through some scholarly journals, you will find research that refutes this professor's opinion... and that is purely what it is, opinion.

I think the high rates of violence against women can play into higher anxiety levels, not to mention the stress of sexual terrorism that exists in the world of patriarchy! You could also talk about the the rising number of women in the workplace, but the lack of affordable childcare, pay equity, and issues with the women still having a majority of the second shift because women still bear the brunt of domestic work based on our outdated ideals of work (women have entered the masculine world of outside-the-home work while men haven't put in much more work inside the home (there are statistics on that).

Good luck! Anti-feminists profs aren't very fun. And remember, you can take action against him if things get out of hand!

Hell yes feminism has helped America. Hey, now husbands can't legally rape their wives (better family values)! Women (theoretically) can't be paid less or forced to take only women-designated jobs (family incomes go up)! Women can go to college (better educated citizens raising better educated children)! Women can have a credit card (if women didn't shop where would the economy be?)! Women can play sports (not that men really watch them)! Women can vote (and tend to vote for improving domestic policies)! etc

I think what increases women's stress levels is the fact that many men and society are slow to adapt to women being equal. It'd be one thing if women were going to school and work and then didn't have to go home and be in charge of making sure everything runs smoothly/take care of everyone else's needs. The reality is, most women carry a second shift, if not task wise then at least emotionally. they are still the ones most responsible for the emotional well being of their family and friends. that is taxing. aren't there studies that show that married men are happier/live longer than ummarried men and the opposite is true for married/unmarried women? Plus, as I saw others mention, women are told from a young age to be careful of being raped and harassed etc and i think many of us live with that in the back of our minds at all times. and for those who have been abused by someone we know and trusted, that can make home and other traditionally safe places unsafe for us too. being in a semi-flight or fight mode for part of every day might have some impact on stress levels!!

Geez, i wonder if this guy would have the nerve to say, so did the civil rights movement make society worse or better?

[0+] Author Profile Page Edgy1004 said:

Do you really want to play this guy's game? No matter what you write he isn't going to go "oh yes, although I don't agree with your point I understand that there are valid arguments on both sides of this issue." Something about this sounds super funny to me. It is just such a one-sided question. He didn't articulate both sides and then let you pick one to research.

If you really wanted to screw with him (and you don't super need the extra credit) change the game. Write 500 words on the role cultural sexism plays in domestic and sexual violence. If he is going to make an assignment into an accusation turn it back on him.

Or, equate his argument with the (completely stupid) argument of the inferiority of different races.

Or, contact his supervisor and let them know that you are being attacked.

[0+] Author Profile Page Johannisbeere said:

You might mention that the whole concept and the methods of evolutionary psychology are not undisputed. Wikipedia has an article on the "Evolutionary psychology controversy" and links to online articles you might want to look into.

Also, I personally would very much like to know why, say, bookkeeping should be so much more stressfull than caring for a horde of kids.

And: "...is due to the rise of feminism and women not being evolutionarily "fit" for the added stresses of work/school".
Added, huh? That means he compares women who shoulder their traditional duties and on top of that a full time job/education with men who only have to do the latter. OF COURSE that means added stress and anxiety.

Unless he can show that women's anxiety levels have increased as their role in work outside the home has increased, then there is no evidence to support his thesis.

And you might also point out, as others on this thread have, that while women may have higher levels of anxiety (he didn't cite his sources, but you could still accept it as a given), men have higher rates of stress-related illness. Physicians argue that this is because women have better coping mechanisms than men, hence making them more fit for the stresses of life.

You might also look for studies on the anxiety levels of women who work outside the home vs. those who don't, or married women vs. non-. Both of these could provide explanations as to the source of women's anxiety.

And I can tell you flat out that a colicky baby is infinitely more stressful to deal with than a pissed off boss.

[0+] Author Profile Page rootedwillow said:

HA HA HA oh GOD this is great. I love when scientists try to reason scientific fact by their own personal experiences and opinions to prove some point. I am a physicist and a woman and according to "evolutionary psychology" or psychology in general I should score better in language than math. WRONG! My math scores have always been in the 95th percentile while my language scores are usually 70th percentile. It has nothing to do with the fact that I'm a woman perhaps it has to do with the fact that my parents encouraged me to do well in math and science instead of buying me shirts that say "I'm too pretty to do math".

First of all what evidence is there to suggest that men do not experience the same amount of anxiety. Just because someone doesn't report they are anxious to a doctor doesn't mean they are not anxious or depressed ie:my father. Second how does he account for this "rise" of anxiety because when did Psychologists classify anxiety as a problem? (1900ths)? So somehow I doubt people were not anxious before that, it was just called something different. Also this plays into the very gender roles we have because "men" are not supposed to "share" their fears or feelings. They can only have two emotions anger and happiness.

Second higher divorce rates DOES NOT MEAN anything but higher divorce rates. When someone uses that "divorce rate" argument, what they are trying to say is 'the family structure is falling apart because of women'. I don't know about you guys but I think divorced families are still families and they can still live healthy and successfully without a wife/husband. A family is not defined by marriage or co-habitation. It is defined by bonds between the family members.

This is so silly. Also evolution itself was reason on a pure reproduction basis. You know the "man must pass his seed" so on and so forth. Well if that was the only reason evolution happens, its wrong because there are plenty of un-reproductive people who are happy with their lives. We are done evolving physically lets evolve socially past this stupid homophobic, gender confining and racist center of what it means to evolve.

[0+] Author Profile Page rootedwillow said:

oh I forgot to ADD
Ask your professor if there are any stats that show how the CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT has destroyed society/family values? Are African-Americans more anxious now because they have to work and go to school as well? Or should we go back to taking away their freedoms too? ...Just a thought because CIVIL RIGHTS is anti-racism and the FEMINIST MOVEMENT is anti-sexism so why are they treated so differently?

[0+] Author Profile Page Femgineer said:

Question C starts out "Has feminism helped America?" then goes on to talk about anxiety. Answering the question about whether or not evolutionary psychologists' notion that women have higher anxiety due to feminism and being "unfit" for the workplace does NOT answer the first question of whether feminism has helped America.

This prof is an idiot, and doesn't even know how to frame questions.

[0+] Author Profile Page gopher said:

Mamma Mia,
There is one country in which the suicide rate is highest in females, and thats in China. Its like adult female infanticide. They may live beyond infancy but because their culture is so anti-woman they feel that they shouldnt be there and kill themselves.

[0+] Author Profile Page Mama Mia said:

Gopher-
Makes sense, sadly. I guess China would be the exception that proves the rule.

Women have higher anxiety because we're generally under more pressure. Working women are forced to fret over balancing work and kids, while working men don't face any of the same pressure. Women are also forced to worry about appearances more. We're expected to make everything look effortless, and traditionally female methods of dealing with emotions -- crying, meditating, whatever -- are seen as signs of weakness. Basically, we're under more pressure and we're not allowed to deal with it.

Your prof is an asshole.

[0+] Author Profile Page followingthru said:

Your Professor seems to like gender stereoptypes. I wonder how the one about women having way better multi-tasking skills than men fits into his views.

[0+] Author Profile Page MaggieF said:

My first question about prompt C is "How do we know?" Assuming the "3x more" stat turns out to be true, or at least verified in a reputable source, does it take into account the fact that Western society is more likely and willing than, say, fifty years ago, to recognize mental disorders such as anxiety, and women are more encouraged to find help for them? It may not be that the actual numbers have increased so much--just that fewer women are sitting down and shutting up about it. That has been one suggested (at least partial) reason for the rise in diagnoses of things like ADHD and autism.

[0+] Author Profile Page Crumpet said:

Please ask your professor to direct you to the source of these 'facts'. It will be interesting to see how valid the measures used to come to such a conclusion are. I don't doubt that life has always been a greater source of anxiety for women, regardless of the era. I'm no rocket scientist but I'd be pretty willing to wager that poor people and minorities also experience higher levels of anxiety. No joke!

Now, it is interesting to me that no one ever blames things/social changes that they LIKE for all of the problems society faces Blaming women is always a surefire scapegoat for anything that ails us. It's all womens' fault for having the temerity to think they have the right to vote, earn money,get an education, own property, and be free from abuse. No one ever blames technology for the destruction of the family unit.....the fact that technology means that a man's greater physical strength is no longer some great trump card in the workforce or that the inductrial revolution is actually what initially got us moving away from the much more functional extended family systems. They don't blame planes and cars for making it possible for people to work farther from home. Technology means that housework can be done much more efficiently allowing more time for other pursuits. These men like your professor don't seem to consider that their beloved Blackberry, PC, and internet porn are all just as indirectly responsible for all of these social changes. It's the l;aw of nature: what comes upo must come down and with improvements come some negative unintended consequences as well.

Good luck.

1)I fifth/sixth/whatever that your professor is a sexist assnugget.

2)Everyone else's responses were so good and covered pretty much every argument (between their actual responses or the references they provided) that all I can say (with my 16-year old gamer mentality showing) is "PWND!"

3)On a more serious note, yes, please report this jerk to his superiors, complete with documentation. Bastions of sexist thought should be barred from academia.

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

I sure do intend to do this extra credit assignment...and while it may not change his perspective, I know that others in my class will see it, because I will post it on the same discussion board my introduction to the class is on. I always take advantage of extra credit, ya never know..., and no I don't need it, but would you be able to resist???

I'm still looking into all the responses, and have a math test this week as well-(seeing as I am putting added stresses on myself for getting an education), but I have asked him for sources...just waiting for a reply. He usually gets back to us pretty quickly so maybe by the end of the day. Thank you so much for all the responses, they are awesome, everyone have a fabulous day.

I read through many of the comments and my initial thought is that you should ignore many of them. They will only let you fall into an obvious trap that you can easily avoid.

(However, I do not believe you said what type of class this is. Is it one that requires research? Is it liberal arts? Literature? Does it have anything to do with feminism/evolution?)

I would approach it like this:

Don't argue with the premise. He said that women have three times the stress as men, and stated that it is a fact. Whether that is true is irrelevant. It sounds like that is supposed to be taken as a given. (And, he may be testing you on whether you can separate your stated prejudice when posed with a hypothetical question.)

Don't argue with the professor. many of the remarks are attacking him as a sexist pig. Maybe he is. But maybe he is interested in how you respond. Again, not knowing what the course is, I am not sure what the point of the question is.

Don't rely on your assumptions. The question is a two-parter: 1) whether feminism has helped America; and 2) the whole issue of anxiety. While you may be running to jump at "yes" to the first part, could the second part be a downside to feminism? He has asked for an alternate explanation. Again, not knowing the class, I don't know if this is a research issue, or not. Who knows, maybe the evolutionary psychologists may be right (check your assumptions). Or, maybe women have always been three times as anxious; for example, maybe men developed less anxiety because anxious men were selected out of the evolutionary pool when they refused to hunt mammoths. As women never faced that kind of weeding-out factor, they have remained as anxious as they have always been and it is not feminism that has caused this. You see! It's easy to make up any kind of non-sense that fits this scenario. You could also say that, yes, they have it right, but feminism has still been beneficial in spite of this consequence because of X, Y, and Z.

In short, just use your imagination, and answer the question.

I will end with a short anecdote. I taught logic in a University in the South. It was basic logic. One of the syllogisms had to do with the existence (or non-existence) of God (something completely tangential like: if God exists, then Dick Cheney is the president; Dick Cheney is not the President, therefore ....).

This is a very simple syllogism in logic. The answer is God does not exist. Some students could not prevent their beliefs from interfering. How could God not exist? etc. Of course, you might say: no way would Cheney be President if there really was a God! ;-)

But, again, you would be missing the question.
-Jut

[0+] Author Profile Page MoodyStarr said:

"Women are also forced to worry about appearances more."
Last night I felt a little anxious before bed, so I made a list of all the things that would make me feel that way (sometimes, getting it out helps.) On my list were: stray gray hairs, forehead wrinkles, fitting into the pants I want to wear.
Those things should not be on my list! That's a burden for me.
Anyway, I didn't have time to read all of the replies, because I have to get to my math homework (Ahh! the stress! I can't take it! snark.)I agree that what your professor did was unacceptable. He begged the question by framing it that way. The head of the department should be consulted.
Personally, I would have transfered out of the class as soon as he said he was an anti-feminist, because I would've taken it as a major insult to myself, as a woman, and as a person with ADD!

[0+] Author Profile Page lizziej said:

Without pointing out that the question itself is flawed or questioning the supplied statistics, a useful point of reference would be the 'Work' chapter of Naomi Woolf's 'The Beauty Myth' for alternative suggestions as to the origins of women's high anxiety levels that do not apply to men. Unlike your tutor, she does provide sources for her claims that can probably be traced back to their original articles.
Of course, another obvious argument for high levels of anxiety in women is sexual (and domestic/intimate partner) violence. If 1 in 4 women is subjected to gendered sexual violence then it follows that a large proportion of these women would be likely to suffer from anxiety as a result of their experiences. Again, as sexual violence is hugely gendered this would be likely to affect women to a much higher degree than men, and could lend itself to the disproportionate amount of female sufferers of anxiety.

I was going to say to attack the causality of the studies that supply these statistics. You can use the third variable argument that comes into play in social science research. The third variable in this case would be the reasons that many people have outlined above (women have more trouble financially, we get paid less, etc. etc.)You can't prove that the rise of feminism caused the increase in stress because of the third variable. Plus, you could point out the lack of prestige of the researchers, and the field of evolutionary psychology in general. (People always used evolutionary psychology to attack my feminist beliefs in college too)

Everyone above gives really good advice as well. I'm very impressed that there are so many smarties around here. :)

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

Okay...Let me just say, JutGlory-thanks for the best advice given so far. I agree, and am thankful for your post.

Also, I logged on to see if I had received a reply from him regarding the information sources. Sure enough, he had responded promptly. He thanked me for making him a star and seems to be a good sport about it. While researching for this lately I had noticed this post pops up. He graciously provided several links. Since some of you were curious as well I'll include it for you too, it's always good to expand what we know.

http://www.adaa.org/AboutADAA/PressRoom/Stats&Facts.asp

This explains some recent statistics showing a variety of anxiety disorders have a clear gender difference.

A pro-women's study video I show in my in-person classes on anxiety (because I am so biased) can be found here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki5mZ9dKqdk

Here's one that cites anxiety disorders are two to three times more prevalent in women than men..

http://www.thedoctorwillseeyounow.com/articles/womens_health/anxiety_8/

Here's another one that quotes agoraphobia being three times more likely in women:

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Women-More-Prone-to-Anxiety-Disorders-than-Men-14799-1/

Here's a book called "The Complete Guide to Mental Health" which also cites two to three times..

http://books.google.com/books?id=kv8yVJbH2oEC&pg=PA198&lpg=PA198&dq=%22anxiety+disorders%22+women+3+times&source=web&ots=DJ0F6PnWWH&sig=-fyqOuSuPnmU34H_yIjutkVEc38&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result

Another one that mentions phobias are three times more prevalent in women (phobias are anxiety disorders)

http://www.brainphysics.com/anxiety.php

Here's a French study that categorically states that women are three times more likely to suffer from anxiety as men..

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=3517497

Okay - so now that I have academically demonstrated that women do have two to three times the anxiety disorders as men - I'm not sure how I can prove a theory to be correct.

But if you don't believe that there is that line of thinking out there and I am asserting my opinion as fact (or even theory) (although there is an inherent hypocrisy stating that I would be stating a theory as fact), one may check out:

Divided labours: An evolutionary view of women at work. by Kingsley Browne

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

http://km.adamsspace.com/2008/09/17/feminist-philosophical-pity-party/

You ladies will love this.

"This was posted over at feministing. I read it and started to respond, but the verbal vomit being spewed over there is just so stupid, it’s hard to know where to begin. It wasn’t worth it to dig out my feministing password.

So I thought I’d post it here, complete with comments. It’s interesting to read all of the standard half-truths feminists use to justify their existence. Personally, I don’t need to justify my existence, but maybe that’s because I don’t embrace feminist ideology as gospel truth. It’s amazing what a little critical thinking can do for you.

I fault Divine Chaos’ anti-feminist professor with one thing. He’s expecting a rational response from the irrational. "

[0+] Author Profile Page Divine Chaos said:

In regard to the feminist philosophical Piti-Party I posted a comment:

"Your comment is awaiting moderation."

I’m assuming he is expecting a rational response, and I’m pretty sure he’ll get one. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, that’s why everyone has the ability to do so. The trick is, to see who can do so while maintaining class and control. Some aren’t able to and often resort to name-calling and desperate attempts to draw attention away from the subject at hand, while simply pointing a finger. While you apparently post your beliefs, others will continue to do the same. That’s the world we live in. I think it’s great that we have that right. Speaking of rights, who are you voting for this election?

http://www.historyplace.com/speeches/anthony.htm

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/suffrage1900/a/august_26_wed.htm

pow3rful: Women can play sports (not that men really watch them)!

Unless it's bikini football.

Yes that exists. It came on after a CSI repeat I was watching on Spike and I didn't change the channel fast enough.

Those are some nasty brushburns waiting to happen.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kira G said:

whoa.
Divine Chaos, I hope you will seriously consider abandoning your efforts to participate in this "assignment" and instead redirect your efforts towards documenting what led up to this, and reporting this professor to the administration.

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