You know, I am tired of this whole bullshit of "what women want." I am talking about Maxim and other magazines, books and websites like www.askmen.com and "dating courses" that talk about what women want and the art of picking up women.
Pure and simple - if you want to know what the hell a woman wants, talk to her! Listen to her! Is that too fucking hard? It's a simple but novel idea, isn't it?
The thing that bothers me the most about it all is that these people treat women like they're all the same - that what one woman wants, other women want as well. And as a result, we get a bunch of fake relationships, based on these societal ideas of what women want, rather than based on individuality.
To be sure, there are certain things that we all want as human beings - someone who gives a shit, and perhaps someone who shares with us the same beliefs, values and convictions that we hold close to our hearts, but can we please stop treating women and men as though they have inate desires, wants and needs that are all the same.
What's even more pathetic is that most of the advice are very sexist, and to a certain extend, misogynistic. As a result, we've got jackasses making money off selling the idea of how to be the perfect men, and socially inept men buying into these ideas and treating women they way they think women want to be treated, rather than on what each individual woman wants.
Besides, why the hell would you change yourself just to fit into some woman's ideals of the perfect man, even if it is true that those are the characteristics she desires? I am me. I don't change for anyone. If I choose to stop eating meat, I will because I want to, not to date some crazy PETA woman. I didn't quit smoking to please any woman. I am not a feminist just to get with anyone. And I refuse to change myself for anyone.
Now, do you see why assumptions about genders hurt us all? Men can't be themselves and women are treated the way society assumes they want to be treated, rather than what each truly desires.
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Cosmo and the like do the same thing in regards to telling what men want, where you philippic against that?
I don't see all of the men's dating advise to be totally useless. A lot of it is sexist garbage, just like a lot of the stuff geared toward women especially stuff like "The Rules" and the recent book geared toward Black women--I forgot what it's called (thank goodness)
As with everything buyer beware. But since my s.o. is a coach and psychologist we've had a chance to kinda talk about some of what this stuff is about.
On the plus side, some of the dating advice does try to tackle some of the artificial social barriers that have been constructed. I think this is generally helpful. Also as a women I never really appreciated the level of fear and anxiety that men have in even having a conversation with a stranger. So most of the advice geared toward social anxiety can be helpful for men and women.
On the dark side, there are dating coaches teaching men how to manipulate women using techniques such as NLP (Neuro-linguistic Programming) and other techniques that essentially are meant to circumvent her natural protective barriers or to put her down.
I have found with a lot of the dating advice for hetero men and women, a strong trend toward objectification, which bothers me.
For example, a lot of emphasis is placed on rating women's appearances and using "average gals" as practice. Yeah, guys the secret is out!
One the other hand a lot of women's dating advice also tends to emphasis her being a sexual object as well, with her spending money on make-up, special outfits, the hair, etc. So, the woman spends money on herself to look good for the man and then he spends more money on her to be with her.
How about everybody put their money away, and just take a walk and get to know the person?
I totally agree with Marc. On the rare occasion when I actually read one of these articles, in order to know what it is I allegedly want, I either find it amusing, offensive, or just pathetic. Puke. I'm with spike the cat; get to know the actual woman you're interested in already.
Amen. This reminds me of a horrible show I saw an ad for called "The Pick-Up Artist," in which some asshat (well, he IS an ass and he DOES wear a stupid hat) teaches guys to totally change their personalities in order to pick up drunk chicks at bars. So he's manipulating men into manipulating women... how does anyone win there?
So he's manipulating men into manipulating women... how does anyone win there?
Heteronormativity and gender roles win, Kate! And pretty soon the forests grow back and the free market puts those nasty single mothers back at the bottom of the ladder where they belong! How are you not getting this?
I remember one advice column, which was acutally written by a sex therapist, telling men to give women a poem written on tree bark for Valentine's day. I do believe I permanently ripped something in my stomach laughing at that.
The thing that kills me about all these advice columns, and they litter Yahoo's front page every day, is that none of them say, "Dude, just ask. Talk. Get to know the other person and react accordingly. And don't try to be someone you're not because you won't be able to keep up the charade forever."
OK, I take it back. Apparently it's not the case that all of them make me feel like puking. This one is actually pretty good. Of course, it's written by a guy who self-identifies as feminist. Of course.
yeah exactly these stupd advice articles dont do either men or women justice, but you know there are some dumbasses who actually buy into this shit
Rachel: that link was awesome. Thanks!
yeah like I even know what I want as a woman, let alone what my lovely wife wants, one thing I am sure of though is what those magazines want and that is your money or your mind!
But didn't you know? Women are complicated and need manuals for everything, including picking one up and getting her to date you. Fortunately, all women are mostly the same, so the same manual should work for everyone. If the manual doesn't work, she's faulty, so you don't want her anyway. Plus, men and women are just so inherently different, you can't treat her like she's a friend, because she's not. Women you want to date or bone just aren't friend material. She's just some at least kind of cute chick you want to go on a date with or hop into bed with. Not a person like your dad or your buddy Mike, or Amy who's too cool and not feminine enough to date.
i HIGHLY dissagree with Marc.
"Pure and simple - if you want to know what the hell a woman wants, talk to her! Listen to her! Is that too fucking hard? It's a simple but novel idea, isn't it?"
I'm the guy whose shoulder gets ladies tears, the gentle giant, the teddybear best male friend. I listen, and i hear it all. Repeatedly bad boyfriends, cheaters, you name it. And they say they just want a nice guy. Here i am. Finishing last. Girls don't even know what they want, they know the cliches of what to SAY what they want, but never actually go thru with what they SAY they want, otherwise i'd have made ONE the happiest girl on this planet.