Some men really piss me off and I thought that I would share. So i'm walking my dog, minding my own business, when these fraternity guys are walking by me. I don't have a problem when people want to say hello, but when a stranger says something to you, just to seem "cool" or "macho" in front of their friends, it really pisses me off and I certainly can see through it.
He approaches me and says, "hello there" and i'm like "hey." He giggles and as he walks by me, he's like "hey you dropped something!" So, obviously, I turn around, and he's like "you dropped your smile!!"
Is he serious? I didn't see him smile! Why do I have to smile? Do they expect me to giggle and smile, wide-eyed like i'm so thrilled some asshole is saying hello to me? Absolutely not! Why do women always have to be so cheery or giggly at all times? Am I supposed to be impressed in front of his buddies? Well, fuck that and fuck him.
ugh. well, thanks for letting me share. But really, am I over-exaggerating or is he just an ass?
Janel
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No, he's an ass. I know this is far-fetched, but I do dream of a time and place in which I can walk down the street without being seen right off the bat as a conquest. I assume you feel the same. It's human. *sigh*
He's an ass. I don't go out to be bothered by other people, "friendly" strangers, and retail or sales staff least of all.
It happens all the time. And he is an ass. It's sad, I'm actually almost willing to give this idiot more credit than most; he was a little more original than just saying "Smile, sweetheart!" like most of them do.
It comes of a worldview wherein women are public decorations and public property, so if you're not living up to his standard of pleasant-looking, he is allowed to intrude on your day to demand that you adjust your facial expression to his liking. Few of them think it all the way through like that, but it's one of the most basic expressions of male privilege I see on a daily basis.
I find it really sad/un-encouraging/frustrating that this type of behavior is seen as "normal", and that the potentially intimidating nature of these types of approaches is so often overlooked.
Janel, he is... an a-s-s.
As for:
"am I over-exaggerating or is he just an ass?"
You definetely did not over-exaggerate on your reaction to him... and judgment of asshattery.
You over-exaggeration was in that you linked one ass to a general problem and let him take your power away from you and made it into a much bigger issue than that individual ass.
"Why do women always have to be so cheery or giggly at all times?"
They don't. It's a litmust test for macho men though. Women who do smile and respond to a macho, cheesy "heeeeeey" line and accept that kind of a behaviour are more likely to be vulnerable. So if a woman doesn't refuse it, she is a certain "prey" for a macho-ass-jerk. So even if 99 out of a 100 times, the woman will frown and walk away, the one that doesn't is "bingo" to the macho.
Btw... In these situations, by being reactive (letting it affect you emotionally), you lose the power, and it feeds his "macho" power or persona.
One of the worst advices i've heard is "ignore it and walk away" [and then feel guilty and shameful all day?]
The right action is to stand up for it (assuming no chance of physical foul of course)... And simply stand firmly, and in a calm, non-chalant voice say how it made you feel, point it out and what you didn't like.
If likely of innocence (social incalibration and he didn't intend harm, but simply stumbled socially...), he will apologize and explain himself, and that's actually good communication for both parties and improved gender communication.
If a genuine harasser (power-taker), he will lose all the power the moment you call him out on it (because you called it out), and get lost. That immediately SNAPS the power away from the offender.
Your case however... It wasn't the action, but the attitude. He was an ass in attitude, not so much the action. [in other words, if described on paper, it can't be proved to be harassment, has to include the subjective overall attitude only seen right there].
I can imagine the EXACT same words being said in a way, place and time where they are a great, fun flirty interaction that leaves both parties energized.
""Is he serious? I didn't see him smile!""
That's precisely why he said it. I've felt the urge to say it precisely when I was so anxious from not knowing what to say, and being so concerned with not being able to crack a smile, but desperately wanting to meet a woman who impressed me with her energy... That I would get the inclination to say that. It's a kind of a [please rescue me, I want to crack a friendly energy interaction, but i'm so anxious, can you please help me and do it first?] If its a woman who's in the mood or willing to take that burden at that precise time, great. Interaction unfolds, new friends made.
Problems is when its a woman who happens to be in the same mood as he is that day and understands it as a burden... Why is this complete stranger coming out of nowhere and dumping this huge burden on me [why do I have to smile? I didn't ask for it!] Which is logical. He made the choice to approach, he should carry the burden.
However, a simple polite, but firm "not interested in carrying the burden" will suffice and does suffice for most women who comunnicate it to that man [I'm not interested enough to carry the burden, thank you].
There's no need to make a fact of life or a generalization that its only expected from women because of one situation.
Women who drown in theories about patriarchy see 4502 other different hidden meanings about it [women force women to smile, the patriarchy represses women through controlling facial expressions etc... etc... and link every single gender issue and project it into that one single interaction, and react as if though that one man were the source of all those issues.
[sarcasm] Because [ofcourse!] its impossible for a man to stumble through a lame pickup line that he chose to protect his ego from hurt. Its impossible for a man to want to test the waters by whether you will smile and he can proceed without chance for being hurt. Its not possible that this man saw something he liked in your demeanor and energy that made him anxious about meeting you, coz just maybe, you might be the one and that's such a risky, anxiety-ridding moment to fail at. Because ofcourse as we know, EVERY single man on the planet is born charismatic and sails through every social situation smoothly without hiccups or The men who aren't charismatic - they're faking it. They know exactly how to act, they purposefully miss the timing in order to annoy women, because that's their only mission in life.
As we all know obviously, all social phenomena are very clear, specific, and there is always only one possible explanation or inteptretation for any one social action or interaction. [/sarcasm]
1) Now genuine power-based sexual harassment (want to take away power, inflict pain on purpose, genuine predator and no sexual aspect) does exist: whistling, hollering, sexual remarks, physical grabbing etc. - These are the type that are so off the charts clear and obvious that they can be institutionalized against.
2) There also exist sexual harassment through no actual intent of hurt but still based on machoismo and not taking woman's perspective in mind, (selfish, with a focus on sex, not power. Inflicting hurt through being selfish, not with an intent of inflicting hurt, but through a lack of caring): "hey baby", "yo yo sweety-pie", "hey sweet jiggly, turn around, I wanna see some more", "mmmm mmmm mmm, you new in here, dayum, you new in town.... etc... etc... Almost every woman save for a vulnerable woman find these harassing.
3) Unintentional harassment [which is only harassment by virtue of the fact that either 1) the woman in that specific situation saw it/felt it as such or 2) It was a case of social miscalibration]. This is where quite a lot of women would interpret differently. Some as creepy, some as lame, some as sweet, some as annoying, some as endearing, some as harassing. Based on her own history and familiarity with men, sexual negative issues, religion, safety issues etc.... Stuff like: cheesy pickup lines, the shy guy who takes 10 minutes to get the courage to say hello,
I love it when a geek has a crush on a girl, thinks she is a goddess ideal of human being... finally takes the courage to walk up and ask her out... stammers an uncomfortable and slow "erm Hello" and darts eye-contact in shame of getting it wrong... There are women who will actually interpret this as "he approached her to hurt her, control her, and inflict her gender role onto her".
People should learn to communicate. Don't bottle it inside, get home, and then let it eat you on the inside. Open your mouth. Say what you feel. Communicate. Stand up for yourself and your wishes, desires and preferences.
WE should all just communicate more instead of sitting on internet forums inventing theories what other people mean by what actions instead of asking them in real life, or communicating how we feel in real life. Learn to say NO... But guess what, also learn to say YES when you mean it. Anyone who shames you for saying yes to your desires is no friend of yours.
This reminds me of a random time I was waiting outside of a grocery store for my mom. I had just gotten off the phone, and was standing around, just there. Not happy, not sad, just there. Of course, I had no smile on my face, as I don't tend to be a bundle of joy, but some guy came by and was like "Smile, the world's not so bad. Besides, someone as pretty as you shouldn't be upset."
Seriously? The concept that I'm supposed to smile so someone can ogle me is not a concept I want to be investing in. Also, how does me not smiling automatically = upset?!?! AAHH!
We're not here to be on display. We're people too, although, sadly, some beg to differ.
You didn't overreact. There are a lot of folks who treat meeting women as a sport, complete with ratings, scores, spectators and the trophy.
If you find yourself an unwilling participant, you are under no obligation to play.
No. You definitely didn't overreact. I've had similar situations with guys thinking they are being awesome by getting my attention. I know how frustrating it is.
Yes, he's an ass. I don't think that was hostile, though. Or meant to pick you up, or act macho. I try to get random people to smile all the time (though usually I try something a little better than telling them to smile). And it's not a gender issue, I do it to men, too.
He's stupid, not hostile. I don't think you should get mad, just laugh at him, and walk off.
Your post reminded me of something that happened to me when I was walking home from class the other day. Some guy came up to me selling magazines, but I got some real sketch vibes from him. He kept talking about how people in the area were so nice and how no one had been a bitch to him. Something about the way he approached me when I was alone and kept trying to call me nice and contrast me with "bitches" made me really uncomfortable. Then, later I felt bad for jumping to conclusions about him and assuming that every strange guy is a predator. I fell like maybe he just had bad social judgement.
That made me think how unfair it is that rape culture pits women and men against each other in some sort of contrived gender war.
Anyway, your Cheery McSmilepants was a jerk, but I still can't decide about magazine guy.
Yes, he is a total ass. I hate being told to smile; does that make anyone happy?
Yoshimi, I think your instinct was correct. When talking about how nice people had been, that guy was only referring to women (nice as opposed to being a "bitch").
I had a similar experience with someone selling magazines. I later found out that a lot of them are scammers and that some are using rather sophisticated sales tactics.
What they are doing is trying to appeal to your emotional self e.g., that you are different from the rest (could be a good or bad sense), or they try to get you to doubt your belief system.
Here are some examples. So this guy is at my door selling magazines blabbing away, and he proceeds to tell me that he is all out of forms because almost everyone in the neighborhood has already bought a magazine from him (helping him through school was the excuse). Then he starts dropping names, like Linda next door bought 2 subscriptions, etc, etc.
What he was trying to do was make an emotional appeal to my sense of 1)not being the only cheapo in the neighborhood 2) being the outcast on the block
Second example is a pick-up tactic. What the man does is he gets the woman to admit something personal about herself. So I might say, "yes I'm really adventurous and free spirited." And he engages this and let's me blab on about fun stuff I've done and how free I am. Then when it comes time to seal the deal, and the answer is no, he can then challenge me by saying, "well, where is your spirit of adventure?"
This is the kinda stuff where you feel weird, almost guilty about saying, 'no', and you don't know why. You have the feeling that the person is a jerk, but yet they were completely polite and they seemed to listen to you.
One of the things you can do (beside saying no, and accept being seen as a bitch) is to turn the questions around on them. This can work for almost any hard sales tactic. By asking them questions it changes the dynamic and ruins their script. For example the magazine kid asked my what college I went to...and then used it to then talk about his college to make a connection with me. That would have been a good time for me to ask him a bunch of questions--
sorry for the rant :)
People telling me to smile is one of my biggest pet peeves, so I'm actually glad to hear that it really bothers some other folks, too. It's like they're punishing me for not being cheerful enough-- if they really wanted me to smile, they could try giving me a (non-creepy) compliment. I don't understand people sometimes...
Let me just dive into the flames here.
Most of these comments are how feminists get labeled man-hating, angry women who have no interest in even speaking with men.
All this guy did is attempt to engage someone in conversation. He said nothing lewd, or offensive, or generally unpleasant at all. Maybe he is an ass. Maybe he WAS just showing off. but maybe, just maybe, he actually just wanted to make her smile. Maybe he thought he was being cute, and that she'd appreciate it. Maybe HE would appreciate the same kind of attention and you shouldn't assume that he was talking down to her. Maybe you shouldn't just grind him into the ground because you have decided that he's actually just a misogynistic ass based on almost no information.
But everyone here has simply decided his intentions for him. Yoshimi is talking about RAPE CULTURE.
Like you said, he'll eventually run into someone who responds to what he's doing. I don't pity her for being a poor misguided sheep falling into the patriarchal hierarchy. I pity everyone who assumes the worst about every man they see because they're too concerned with rape culture to just view a compliment as a compliment.
Yeah, we do have to guess his intentions now don't we? Maybe instead of treating her like 3 year old things would have turned out differently. There have go to be hundreds of ways to engage people in a conversation without reducing someone to the level of a cliche.
Sometimes bad communication is worse than no communication. And it's not man hating to point that out.
I'm assuming that the average poster on this site is of above average intelligence, so that might be part of the problem.
It's hard to remember that not only are most men stupid, most women are stupid too. Most people are stupid. Basically, he's not treating her like a three year old, he's treating her like he would anyone else. Do you think that that type of guy sits around talking about philosophy with his buddies and then goes out and talks down to women? No. Men don't treat women like they are stupid, they treat everyone like they are stupid, because the men themselves are very likely stupid.
And as a fraternity guy, let me point out that it very often works. The progressive intelligent women contributing here are looking for a similarly intelligent progressive male to interact with. But for the average woman, the average man will do.
Well, according to AOL, you will never be a Man Magnet with that kind of attitude!
Go for it :)