Hi, this is my first time posting something, although I have been reading this blog for a while now. I'm a first year university student majoring in history/women's studies. Just wanted to introduce myself and say hi.
I just read the newspaper today and there was an article about a stripper who is suing her employer for a human right's violation. She was fired because according to her boss she is too old to be a stripper. She is 44 and a single mother of two children. According to her boss, he had gotten complaints from customers stating that she is "old and ugly" (from the picture in the newspaper she looks like a beautiful women but that's beside the point). He said he wanted his club to go in a new direction with younger dancers (apparently according to the boss that's a "new" direction.
I was totally disgusted by this man's attitude toward older dancers. This women has been working at that club for years and now that she's not so young anymore she's considered worthless. It really shows that ageism and sexism go hand in hand, this patriarchal notion that places more value on younger women.
I have a huge problems with the male entertainment industry and hope that the human rights commision rules against this man.
(This is in Canada by the way)
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This is likely a case of discrimination based on both sex and age, two of the prohibited grounds under all of the provincial Human Rights Acts. Previous cases have held that customer preference is not a legitimate reason for prohibited discrimination. This guy is probably going to have to make a payout to his former employee.
This... seems a little odd. I mean, yeah, it sucks that she lost her job, but there are some jobs that you go into understanding that there is going to be a time/appearance limit to it. Models don't sue at 33 when they stop being able to get jobs because they no longer fit into the clothing. Athletes don't sue at 40 when they can't play the game any more because they are too old. I mean, when you go into stripping you kind of need to assume there is an upper age limit to it, because your job is entirely based on your appearance. It's not even like ballet or something where it's based on your skill as a dancer or anything, a really clumsy woman who is considered "attractive" can do a lot better in stripping than an AMAZING dancer who is overweight or something.
I mean, stripping takes training, don't get me wrong, but it is DEFINITELY a job where you go into it, or should go into it, knowing that your bread and butter is not your actual ability to dance, but rather your physical appearance. And if the owner is actually losing money because his workers are no longer able to do their job (ie, get men off-- that is a stripper's job, whether we like it or not), and she doesn't have a contract that guaranteed that she couldn't be fired for this reason, then he really shoudl be able to fire her. Ideally he would give her another job, something behind the scenes that she could do like secretarial work, but if he doesn't have anything or she can't do those jobs, then what's he supposed to do? Go bankrupt because he has no clients any more because his strippers can't draw them in? How does THAT benefit ANYONE?
this is a clear case of discrimination based on age and sex. people can still have great bodies after having kids so his customers shouldn't be complaining. the owner should have at least offered her a job bartending or such where she could still make a decent living even if she wasn't dancing. the owner is clearly in the wrong because he shouldn't fire people just because they are getting older. and Brianna G, there are plenty of guys out there who like older women and would pay to see them so the owner could just start advertising in those communities and get the business back without any problem if he wanted to. as to what you were saying about models, that's why you find such a high rate of eating disorders among them, because of staying able to fit the clothes and it causes many of them to die quite young.
Younger women who are models do have eating disorders, which is very sad, but that's more sizeism than ageism, because as you say, older does not equal overweight. Women drop out of the modeling industry when they reach about 30-35 because they no longer can get jobs, because they are no longer widely considered attractive enough to make people like the garments and want to wear them.
There are guys who like older women, but they aren't all living in one area. He could advertise for them, but those sort of business does well online or in very large cities, and I don't know if he's living there. He'll still make more money appealing to a very large number of men, rather than a small, select group that is very widespread.
I mean, if she still has a good body, his clients wouldn't have complained and there wouldn't be an issue. Since they complained, I doubt she still is sufficiently attractive to do her job. And yes, as I said, ideally she could be a bartender or something else, but if she can't bartend-- bartending takes classes and experience to do right, and he might already have a bartender anyway and not enough need or money for another-- there are limited things he could offer.
I will say she should get a retirement pension. Being fired because you are too old, in any field, to properly do your work should result in retirement payment.
Good god. He didn't fire her because she wasn't attractive. He fired her because some drunken douche said she was too old.
Your model argument doesn't hold up because the models, in your scenario, aren't already under contract. A similar comparison would have been if an agency fired a model they had been using already because some idiot complained that she was too old.
Both are misogynistic, and WRONG.
Can we see a link ?
Here's the main article: Exotic dancer files age discrimination complaint.
Kim Ouwroulis, the dancer who filed the complaint has made a couple of posts in the comments section.
rhowan,
the link you posted isn't working. i also would like to read the article. would you possibly post the title, and site for the paper where the article was posted so that we can look it up ourselves?
This case really brings up some interesting points. I think Brianna G made a good case for similarities to modeling. And certainly there is still a market for older models, but clearly the industry has a preference for younger ones. I'm not saying it's fair, but that's where the money is.
Also I'm torn on this statement: "I'm a bubbly blond with a good personality. The boobs and the blond hair, usually you can't go wrong in a strip club with those two things," she said.
Now here, it sounds like she's acknowledging that there is a certain degree of preference for certain physical attributes. (And at any rate having a good personality is a plus for 99% of jobs where you work with the public--so no shocker there).
It seems sort of like a double standard for the sake of the argument. Either physical preferences--- such as youthfulness, breasts, body type, hair color etc---should not be taken into account or conversely these preference can be taken into account with respect to job performance where subjective beauty is important.
It sorta seems like cherry picking to say that age shouldn't matter while acknowledging that you have an advantage in being blonde with a certain breast size. Yes age is something that we can't control but being blonde usually (but not always) implies ethnicity as well, which is also something that a person cannot control. And body types are also only controllable to a certain degree.
Of course this is for the sake of argument, so I certainly empathize with her situation and hope that the court finds in her favor.
But I could easily this business simply NOT hiring older strippers say in the future, and those women probably won't have as strong of a legal case.
Furthermore, I can see an easy way for this club owner to avoid future discrimination suits, simply by making the dancers meet certain quotas for tips or lap dances, etc. If his customers truly have a preference for younger gals, then what?
I dunno. I'm torn on this one. On one side, it seems like age discrimination. On the other, it is her appearance he is selling. If it's not selling anymore, the position is no longer viable for her. Was it one or two complaints, or was he losing customers?
Hello I'm Kimberlee the adult entertainer who was fired due to age. There are two cases so far; and people above seem to be confused with facts between the two women's cases; which are similar.
Firstly; there was a women named Barbara; and there was a customer complaint on the internet on a site that reviews dancers etc. The complaint was taken off by the owner or bar staff; and she was handed the 'review' print out; it was where a customer was calling her 'old; and she was fired due to it. The owner is known to post up various comments over the years from the site; and post them in locker rooms, (though not in the locker room re: Bridgette) her dancing name. So the customer on the net complained; and she was fired over it...the owner, Mr. Sit. owns 4 bars; he didn't stop there; he was obviously inspired to fire serveral older women 4 who I know, myself included. I was the first to go public with the story. I was a part of a group of girls fired...though the original complaint wasn't about me at all. I just happen to be older. I wanted to say; that I did make very good money at his clubs; with both younger and older customers. I'm quite fit; and do take care of myself etc. The comment I'd made about boobs and blond hair is just that; remember this is a strip club here; so that look will be populr; that is not to say that many looks in the club are popular; and that is my look. Mr. Sit should not have fired me; firstly no customers would ever guess that to be my actual age; they just knew I wasn't 20! I was never told I was ugly and old; thank god; but none the less; I was fired; and literally told "my time was up" One of the other girls axed by Mr. Sit; made alot more money than me; and she was even older; just for the record. Thank you; but with the two of us comming out in public; the stories are getting inter mingled. I believe we will win our case; but we don't ever want to work at Mr. Sit's clubs again; we work within the industry at present; at other bars. Thanks
Kimberlee
Kimberlee here; there is alot of confustion above. I'd like to straighten it out if possible. Firstly there are two seperate cases here; one for Barbara who was fired being told :she was old & ugly" due to an INTERNET complaint a customer made on a dancers review site; she was fired over that. I was one of a larger group who Mr. Sit the club owner decided to fire as well. He just simply fired anyone older that day; I wasn't alone! I made excellent money; so it's not like customers were complaining and that my "look was not selling" the opposite is true. Mr. Sit tend to 'group' fire people all the time; one week he picks on mature ladies; the next it could be a bunch of his male employee's who are also suing him in the regular courts. Hopefully this will help sort out the above. The boobs and blond hair is a popular look for the club; as well as lots of other looks; so I'm just describing my look for the club.
Thank you Kimberlee
A couple of more things; I'd like to clarify for anyone who is intrested in my 'age discrimination case', my lawyer says that 'we' can discuss anything about the case in public as long as it's in the human rights application, which everything I have said is in the application itself. It's apparently public knowledge. Mr. Sit was inspired by the a dancers review website to fire Barbara, and he had one of his managers do just that! She was handed the review which said she was old and aggressive trying to persuade him to have a dance etc. Mr. Sit furthermore went into that location where I worked and proceeded to find any mature dancers; and get rid of them too., there were 3 of us additonally. I watched Mr. Sit fire people in groups over my 4 years working for him. Currently there are 3 men suing him for wrongful dismissal as well.
The human rights must be applied to all workers; doesn't matter if they are contract or not. The fairness has to be given to every single worker in Canada. I know people pick on 'dancers' and seem to think that we don't deserve equality within the work place. (not on this site) but other comments or blogs that I have come across.
Mr. Sit said to me directly one day (of course he will deny it) but he did say to me "I fired all the older girls; and listed them name by name "and then told me he and his clubs were going into a new direction. I pleaded for my job
and explained to him that he had "more" customers as a result of me working there. Why? Because many men have daughters that are 20ish; they actually don't want to have a dance with someone that age. They enjoyed the fact that I was able to relate to them on another level. Some men do want younger dancers. But if I showed you my bank account deposit; you'd have to agree alot of those men had dances! I also was not doing stage shows at the time of my firing! Though I do a pretty good show; and at my new club I do shows every day! So, I'm able to do the job; and I do plan to stay in the business for a couple of more years; and retire gracefully! Other bart owners seem to agree; that is why I was able to work every single club I tried to get in so far! Mr Sit is known to be very predjuiced toward older dancers; and many people agree on this; of course they could be the older ones who got fired! Also my customers complained to him that I was not there; the only customer complaints ever was after I was fired! I worked for 4 years peacefully; but Mr. Sit started firing managers at his clubs, men; and after this the mature ladies; can you imagine all the other firings that he has done....and I've seen and heard directly some of his policies, which I can't discuss here. Anyhow, hopefully people will understand my situation here.
If anyone wants to directly contact me; I'm happy to respond, via my email address which is my first name at rogers.com thank you
Kimberlee