Some questions to answer…
What do the Disney movies convey to the young girls?
Are Disney movies influencing young girls in such a way that they are misguided for the future?
Why do Disney princesses attract the young girls so much?
As someone whose childhood was not set in the U.S., I didn’t grow up with the typical Disney princesses. My experience with Disney went as far as reading the stories in a book and watching “Lion King” millions of times. I guess because I liked animals far better than princesses.
Now working on this project for my Women, Culture, and Society class, I forced myself to watch the movies, the classics. I buried myself in VHS all weekend and went through Beauty and the Beast, Pocahontas, Mulan, Aladdin, Cinderella, Snow White (my friend didn’t have Little Mermaid, lucky for me) and it was quite torture actually. First of all, I never did like singing in movies, so it was painfully dry during those parts, but deeper issues are at hand. I couldn’t believe that I was watching these ridiculous storylines! Character development was nonexistent and of course the process of the girl and boy falling in love is more fast-paced than I would’ve liked if it was my own personal life. But that’s not the whole truth about me or you perhaps.
So what exactly was Walt trying to do when he started down the path of creating these stories of great imaginations? He obviously has children in mind that’s for sure. The uncomplicated plots, the hero saves the girl and they fall in love to live happily ever after (not in the case of Pocahontas). This creates this perfect little bubble for children to reside in, and of course I can understand why. Anyone who intentionally takes away the innocence of children is a monster in a very abstract sense. Not saying that kids should be kept innocent forever and always, just that Walt Disney was making sure that children are given this perfect image of love and hope so that their innocence is preserved. But is this the best way to be leading our (well at least yours, I’ve got none) children? My classmates say that their dreams were crushed as they grew up and matured into young women. Me, on the other hand, even though never really grew up with the stories, still longs for that perfect story to take place in my life (fine, I admit it, I want to be loved).
What I am trying to say is that maybe Walt wasn’t completely distorting the world through his movies. I think he believed in true love and was a romantic. He knows that there is no magic in the world but he tried to create a sense of wonder and amazement when he created those movies (I know he himself didn’t come up with the stories, but he supported to make it into a mass produced merchandise—issues for another day). He utilized what little girls longed for and made it into a 2-D product that fed our imaginations, which didn’t take us far but dispersed far beyond control once we watched the movie. I think that as girls we’ve always had a desire to be desired, and the Disney princesses only resonated with that deeper longing built inside of us. Why else would girls like is so much? The real world is quite different from fairy tales, but the love part can still be true, right? It’s still possible to find you significant other that’s just right for you, and I am speaking utter sincerity when I say that. I have seen that love with people I’ve met, and I believe in love because I see it in the reality around me and not because I saw Disney movies when I was young.
I mean there are still things that I should be careful of such as seeing how Belle is “peculiar” because she reads, which I love to do, or that Pocahontas should settle down and be “steady as a river,” which I never am and don’t intend to be. But Disney has portrayed a huge array of princesses of various backgrounds and personalities and that has also resonated with me because you guessed it, I like Mulan best out of all of them being a Chinese-American. But maybe that’s just because I feel represented. I think Disney hasn’t done the worst job influencing future generation of girls, in fact I think it’s the people closest to the young children today that influence them. Telling our children that Santa Claus exists and that’s why we celebrate Christmas sounds more ridiculous than Cinderella, and who reinforces that idea? People around the kids do.
What do you think? I would love to hear your experience with Disney and what you think of them, especially seeing as how getting a response back is part of my project, hopefully that will motivate you to write (being shameless now).
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Mulan and Pochahontus are kind of similar- both of them have the girl as the over-all hero. But, I warn you. If you still want to love Mulan, do NOT watch Mulan II. It destroys all of the awesomeness that was in the first one.
I *LOVED* Mulan and Pocahontas, mostly because they were such a contrast to the idiocy that reigned through most of the other Disney Princesses. Belle was cool too, because she actually thought about something other than being married. But I agree - Mulan II was a disgrace, the whole thing was about how Mulan, the war hero and savior of her country, wasn't worthy enough of a husband. ?!?!?
The newer ones are definitely more empowering (look at Mulan, for example, or even Jasmine). But out of the old ones, I always liked Sleeping Beauty. Its a good contrast to Cinderella and Snow White, who spend their time cleaning and doing as they're told and then fall in love with a prince who has little or no lines and no name. In Sleeping Beauty, Aurora falls for Prince Phillip without knowing that he's a prince, and they do have some conversations and interactions. Plus, Phillip has a name and a personality and a horse with a personality. He is much more of an actual character than a flat Prince Charming. And when Aurora is told she has to marry the prince (not knowing it is Phillip), she isn't happy about being a princess and marrying a prince, she cries because she had her own choices she wanted, and it seems like she will resist the plan of her parents (but then she gets all hypnotized and stuff to prick her finger, as I recall).
Also, I think that when the townspeople call Belle peculiar for loving to read, we are meant to be on her side. The movie isn't saying that its peculiar to read, its overall cast as a positive thing. She's smart and independent.
Now that I've thought of that movie, there is one thing that really bugs me about disney movies. The bad guys are always UGLY! I mean, even when they aren't supposed to be. In Beauty and the Beast, Gaston is described by all the other townspeople as good looking, but the way they drew him he isn't. I think it would have been better if he WAS good looking on the screen, but was still a jerk and Belle rejected him based on his personality.
In reference to Gaston, he also became suddenly EVIL BRITISH at the end when he actually intended to kill the Beast. As a Brit myself, this annoyed me when I was a kid but became pretty funny once I got older.
Its been awhile since I've seen it, I don't remember that-- does he get a British accent all of a sudden or is it something else?
What should be remembered is these stories weren't written by Disney. They are classic fairy tales that have been told and retold for quite some time. Most came out around the time of Hans Christian Anderson which was in the 1800s.
So, for many of the tails to evolve to modern standards and for characters to be developed into smart minded women is a pretty good step.
Snow White came out when women were still being repressed.
Although I don't watch Disney Movies really anymore, there are other more sexist shows and movies that I think should be addressed.
I dunno,that's my take.
They're actually much much older than Hans Christen Andersen, he was just one of the people who started to write them down in a standard format.
I think you are giving a lot of credit to Walt Disney Pictures where credit is not necessarily due.
"But Disney has portrayed a huge array of princesses of various backgrounds and personalities and that has also resonated with me because you guessed it, I like Mulan best out of all of them being a Chinese-American. But maybe that’s just because I feel represented."
I do not think that they have portrayed a huge array of princesses with multiple personalities. They same personality is that of a feisty girl that doesn't want to comply with what her family and society (or a weird version of society) tells her to do. She always falls in love and she is always beautiful by society's standards.
As for the various backgrounds, I think that the backgrounds are very contrived, stereotypical backgrounds. The women of color they have featured are Native American and Chinese. They are both heavily eroticized and exotified for the films, taking on white standards of beauty to go with their darker skin tones. It isn't about praising diversity, it is about making it a sexual product that can be sold. I doubt there are hoards of Native American children touting around their Pocahontas dolls. The Disney story is out of touch with reality and history and suggests that Native American women can talk to trees and animals and have this infinity with land that doesn't exist to that extent, or for every Native American. In addition, don't even get me started on the connections to the Indian women's body being viewed as the land by colonizers, as something that can be taken. It is utterly disgusting.
And about the whole looking for love thing and the want to be desired. That is all constructed by society. I don't think it is innately there and that is why girls like it. They like it because that is what they are told to like and then what they are told to like is what shapes their lives.
And where are all the lesbian/not 100% straight princesses? Where is the Black Disney Princess?
To be fair, all the Disney princesses talk to animals.
haha... this is true. But they don't all talk to trees.
I took a women's studies class on indigenous women's experiences and we tore apart disney and it's rendition of Pocahontas multiple times. Actually, its portrayal of indigenous people in general. Watch Peter Pan... it's appalling.
The Black Disney Princess is in production (finally!): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Frog
Why is the black princess not an African Princess?
I'm not specifically asking you, of course.
maybe because not all Black people are African American...
Thanks, of course you're right and that isn't how I meant my comment to come off at all. What I was trying to say is that this movie is set in New Orleans in the 1920s, at least from what I've read, which seems really odd in context of the other Disney princess stories. Also, it seems like that's going to be a really difficult film for Disney to make without having it be horribly racist. What I meant by asking why it wasn't an African princess is that I know there are a million stories about black princesses that would be easier to make with fewer risks of racism and more consistency with the other princess stories. Using a story about an African princess was an example, I didn't mean it as like... that's what everyone is.
It just seemed really weird to me that Disney would choose first black princess- frog- New Orleans- 1920s.
This explains Disney's decision process: http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=84572&title=frog-princess
The Black Disney Princess is forthcoming, in The Princess & The Frog. We'll see how that turns out.
I'm not going to blame my problems with love on Disney movies. There are a host of other sources much higher on the list of what has led to my fucked-up (lack of) romantic life.
Sure, there are issues. There is some sexism (why did it take until the mid-1990s for the princess to NOT need rescuing?). There are body issues (where's the chubby princess - or at least, the not-a-willowy-waif princess?. )There are definite race race issues (simply coloring a princesses skin with a slightly darker shade of beige doesn't count as representing another race).
But what I remember is campy fun and catchy songs. And I'm sorry you didn't get to see The Little Mermaid. It's the first film I can remember saying was my "favorite movie" and also the first one I went to see more than once in theaters.
And now I have "Under the Sea" in my head. Life is the bubbles.
Wow. Typo the fuck out, Liza. Way to go, editor.
I think that what's worse than the movies are the product promotions. All the coolness of Jasmine (who kicks ARSE in all the movies and even more in the TV show) gets overridden by the "pretty hair and dress" dolls representing her.
The Princess Marketing Group (my term) is what I'm angry at.
It's really hard for me to see any redeeming value in the princesses. I don't think that Disney has any lofty goals (like keeping little girls in a bubble of innocence) except to make money. For what it's worth, I don't think the being in a bubble of innocence is good for girls. I think that having adults who thoughtfully and tactfully discuss reality with them in an age-appropriate way is good for girls (and boys).
I think the princess-industrial-complex is bad for girls in a number of ways. Sending them the implicit message that being beautiful is the most important thing, that a Prince will come rescue you, that in the end, conforming to societal pressures and falling in love with some guy are is the best end to any girl's story is just fucked up. And the way the princesses are sexualized is disgusting. I don't want to walk into my 4 y/o stepdaughter's bedroom and see Jasmine's cleavage and Tinkerbell's asscrack every day (so that poster has been exchanged for a Dora the Explorer one, thank you). I don't want my girls to grow up thinking that being cute and flirty are the way to accomplish everything you want. But this is turning into a rant, and I've already done that here, so I'll stop. Sorry. :D
Rachel, I have a dating-ethics question I'd like to ask you. May I email you (I see your screen name is a link)?
I think my username link goes to my blog (which is just pics of our kids, since I'm too committment-phobic to commit to writing my own blog, even though I post stuff on here all the time), and you can email me from the blog.
I actually think Snow White caused the first feminist risings in me, when I was like nine. "I'll clean and cook for you if you let me stay", yeugh.
Thing is, I'm not sure how much Disney Princesses actually influence girls negatively. Sure, they're not exactly the way we want our female heroes to be, but most girls watched Disney movies growing up, and I don't know how much that can be connected to what we aspire to as we grow up, not in the same way that real women in the media do. I mean, pretty much everyone who's commented says they watched Disney when they were kids, and we don't all still aspire to be princesses who'll sit in a castle being pretty until Prince Charming turns up to rescue us. Of course, plenty of women do want that (or perhaps a watered-down version of that), but I don't know if we can blame Disney movies for that - at least, not solely. I mean, me and my friends still often discuss which Princess is our favourite (mine is The Little Mermaid, by the way). Yes, we are extremely cool. But my point is, we can enjoy the fluffy pink fantasy world of Disney movies and still be intelligent young women with the desire to be independent and treated equally. In fact, my friend who is probably the biggest Disney fan I know is in fact a fully-fledged lesbian, so there you go.
Okay this comment is far, far too long.
Mine is Jasmine.
I think most important, it represents how girls see relationships, and perhaps subconsciously, it carries over into adulthood- romantic comedies anyone? Snow white and Cinderella might not influence young girls to believe that their place is in the kitchen these days, but I do believe it influences them to believe they must snag the prince to be successful. There are adult woman who still hold on to the "fairy tale" version of love and romance. This is why the original poster says other girls were disappointed when they grew up. It is not a realistic portrayal, and while fantasies are ok to have, this one is so entrenched in our culture, it is hard to argue in it's favor. Even in the Shrek movies, which shred the traditionally fairy tale standards, marriage and love is the overriding plot/theme.
And I also believe body image is an issue. Just like everything else young girls are exposed to, Disney princesses are drawn with unrealistic body types- willowy with impossibly tiny waists and enormous cleavage.
But I think there are far more women who did internalize the message than those of us who didn't. Most of the other moms at our daycare say things like "every woman wants to be a princess" when the topic comes up, and these are the same ones who don't want to be identified as feminists. It's easy to lose sight of this when you spend a lot of time around other well-informed women on campus or hanging out on feminist blogs. But when you're thrust into the world of the other parents at daycare and T-ball it's pretty depressing.
I posted this last year... excuse the poor writing.
http://painfulreminder.blogspot.com/2007/04/princess-problem-and-its-answer.html
I would say that growing up with the Disney Princesses affected me in some way. Belle has always been my favorite princess because she's smart and doesn't go for the arrogant ass.
Because of this, education and knowledge was always more important to me than spending hours on my appearance or learning how to cook so that men would like me. Like the beast, I wanted someone to fall in love with me for me (though the beast didn't choose this for himself... he was an arrogant ass and got what he deserved!).
As for multicultural princesses, Mulan, Pocahontas and Jasmine were a bit oversexed, but I still enjoyed them. I guess Esmeralda wasn't a Disney Princess, was she?
Too bad she was a bit oversexed, too, though :(
I love Disney movies, but I am at peace with the fact that they are almost all problematic. What I've noticed, however, is that the more recent films are really conscious of their racist/sexist predecessors. This is why I'm sure The Princess and the Frog will be handled with a great deal of sensitivity. Walt himself was a sexist and racist ass, but those of us interested in the field now, I like to believe, don't have such ridiculous bass-ackward views as he did.
Why doesn't Esmerelda count? I mean, Mulan wasn't technically a princess either, was she?
Its been awhile since I've seen the Hunchback of Notre Dame but I remember being struck by that really creepy scene where the bad inquisitor guy is clearly lusting after Esmerelda in a sick and twisted way, and his reaction to it is to try to destroy her and her entire culture and ends up burning half of Paris. It seemed REALLY dark for a Disney animated feature. Maybe little kids don't get that level of it, though.
I read an article about the Princesses marketing plan that explained why they included the ones they did. It also explores how Mulan, for instance was only included to strike a better racial balance, but the compromise was they make her wear the kimono-like clothing that she actually hated in the story whenever she appears with the other princesses. I think I just Googled "marketing Disney princesses" to find that article.
Oh, I didn't realize there was an official list of Disney Princesses, I thought we were just discussing the movies...
The Hunchback of Notre Dame is a Victor Hugo critique of the death penalty and the Catholic Church. I refused to see the stripped-of-all-meaning-everything-ends-happily Disney movie, but if it's "dark" it's not because Disney didn't water it down and paint rainbows on it.
Themes of Disney movies as I see them:
All of these also say:marry a man you barely know because he is handsome and rich-
Cinderella- wait for a man to rescue you from an abusive family.
Snow White- wait for a an to rescue you from an abusive family (the woodsman) and death (the prince).
Sleeping Beauty- wait for a man to rescue you from boredom.
The next few are a little more complicated and are often cited as being better from a feminist viewpoint. To me they are not.-
Pocahontas- marry a man you barely know and give up everything you know and care about for him, even though he still kinda thinks you are less than human.
Mulan- you might be smart but you'll still manage to fuck up a lot more than the men around you. Also, even though you are ostensibly as strong as the men during training, on the battlefield you are a weakling. Don't for get to turn down a fabulous and prestigious job so that you can marry your boss.
Beauty and the Beast- if you are just nice, pretty and sweet enough, your boyfriend will stop abusing you.
Little Mermaid- marry a man you barely know and give up everything and everyone you've ever known for him. Expect him to make no sacrifices for you.
Aladdin- say a few feminist things, but still marry the sexist you barely know. Oh, and make sure to use your sex appeal to get your way- heaving bosoms are especially useful
All of them- make sure you are thin and sexy, even when you are supposed to be like twelve years old. Also, make sure you look exceptionally white even if you are not a white character (I'm not even going to address the racism and ableism in these movies).
I agree with a lot of this, but not your portrayal of The Little Mermaid. Now, I'm not necessarily arguing that its a feminist movie, but the point is she WANTED to give up everything she knew long before she met Prince Eric, so I wouldn't say it was a sacrifice for him.
She hated living in the ocean and wanted to be human and live on land already; one could argue she was using the situation with Eric to manage it. And she does get to know him somewhat before she goes through with the marriage. He, of course, is an idiot who is willing to marry a girl he barely knows because he likes her singing voice. Why aren't we talking about the role models for little boys in these movies?
Jasmine also only fell for Aladdin after she got to know him and decided he was nice and not sexist. And while he does have some sexist attitudes at the beginning (actually, I can't think of much that he does that is sexist but maybe you can remind me. I mostly remember him making assumptions about people's attitudes based on their social class, which is understandable but also shown to be wrong by the end of the movie), he gets over them pretty fast. The line that makes her deign to speak to him is when he says "you're right, you're not just a prize to be won." He is the least sexist guy she has any chance of meeting in that time and place.
I really want to watch Beauty and the Beast again because I don't remember it very well, but the entire idea that this girl has to go live with this scary older man (beast or not) so that he wont' kill her father is pretty messed up. Luckily she gets dancing and singing furniture to make up for it.
As for the Little Mermaid, admittedly I haven't seen it in a long time. She does idolize human culture and want to have legs and such, but she's supposed to be all of twelve years old. And in the process she has to give up every single person she knows. Even if she wants to have legs and she kind of knows Eric... it seems pretty ridiculous. Of course Eric is also an idiot who makes poor decisions- but that's a whole other paper. I could talk about men in Disney almost as long as I can talk about women. :)
Most of my issues with Aladdin are based in racism and oversexualization of women of color, so the intersection of feminism and racism is a lot more salient here. I can see your point about this one being a little better from a strictly feminism only viewpoint.
You really should watch Beauty and the Beast with an eye toward the Beast as an abusive boyfriend. It's easy to see Gaston as the bad man, but the relationship between Belle and Beast is a CLASSIC abusive relationship.
Maybe you can tell I deal with Disney and sexism/racism/ableism/othering a lot in my scholarship and writing. Of course I'm still developing ideas about some of the films and I always appreciate people questioning my ideas and making me think about things in a different way.
I'm pretty sure they specifically say that Ariel is 16, which is still young in our society but definitely of age historically and in fairy tales. If they don't say 16 they definitely say teens-- I remember Triton saying "teenagers-- give them an inch and they'll take a mile" and I remember wondering as a little kid how he could realistically expect his daughter not to move more than an inch ;-). I was a very literal child. Anyway she has an entire song about how she wants to be human and live on land and explore the human world and stuff, and its because of that that she is spying on humans and ends up saving Eric's life. Also, I don't think she is going to never talk to her family again-- she and Eric are going to live in the seaside castle and spend lots of time on boats and stuff. The wedding had both sides of the family there, signifying that they'll work it out. She gets what she wants and her dad is no longer being a jerk about talking to humans. Plus, out of her three friends one is a fish, one is a crab, and one is a seagull, so she's kind of even on which ones can survive on land or in water.
You can tell I've seen The Little Mermaid more recently, I watched it about two years ago so its more fresh in my mind than the ones I haven't seen since I was a kid. I also saw Cinderella recently, and did you remember that there's a line where one of the male mice tries to help sew the dress and the girl mouse kicks him out saying "leaving the sewing to the wimmin, you go get some trimmin."
I definitely think the relationship with the Beast is creepy, I just haven't seen the movie recently enough for the details... I do remember him saying that if she won't eat with him then she won't eat, which is super creepy. I think both he and Gaston are jokes.
Obviously that last word was supposed to be jerks.
Yeah, I haven't seen the little mermaid in... probably 13 years? So I'll take your word over mine.
My little nephew LOVES Cinderella, so I have seen that one over and over pretty recently. That line is one I particularly like to point out to him as being foolish.
Pay special attention to the west wing scene in Beauty and the Beast- there's one part where the beast tries to hit her and misses. He breaks some furniture instead.