Feminism as an "f-word"
I was reading this article in the Toronto Star this morning called "In 2008, feminism is still an f-word" by Antonia Zerbisias.
And I was wondering as I read it...
(1) Why is feminism still an f-word? Why, if someone asks me if I'm a feminist, do I get awkward and try to avoid the question, giving some half-assed "Well, I agree with all the main points, but.." kind of answer?
(2) Will it ever not be an f-word?
(3) How can we make it not an f-word?
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(1) Feminists are largely hostile to "moderate" positions. The hardcore feminists aren't going to let people say "well sure I'm a feminist, but I think that women should raise children instead of men whenever possible, because women are more nurturing" or "I'm a feminist but I don't think we should change the definition of marriage to allow same sex couples." Feminists are just going to attack you and throw you out of the group. It's typically pretty all or nothing.
I think that's a good thing in general. I think that it happens because feminists are widely more intelligent than the average person and they tend to see inconsistencies in certain world-views, and so they point them out. If you believe X, then you can't also believe Y because they are contradictory. The problem is that most people have all sorts of views that contradict each other, and they don't want to be told that they have to give some up and start being rational.
That's why I think the reaction to feminism is a lot like the reaction to atheism. Both refuse to allow people their basic irrational comforts that they like to depend on.
(2) When people are largely educated and homogeneous enough that sexism/racism/homophobia stop being "cool" among in-group people.
(3) I think a big negative reaction is from principles that are, or resemble, affirmative action. I understand all the arguments about balance of power and so forth, but you can't convince hostile people that your goal is equality when you advocate inequality. When someone says "are you using race/sex/whatever as a factor?", you can't say "yes, but..." you have to just be able to say "no" all the time.
I also think racial and sexist humor need to be more politically acceptable when it's obviously tongue in cheek. If you make something taboo, you're just giving it power and legitimacy. I grew up in a very racially diverse group, and we would always make fun of each other. People joke with each other about everything. Putting one topic off limits just highlights that that's an important issue, when the goal is to make it NOT and important issue.
Biological essentialism is not a "moderate" position. Requiring women to be economically dependent on men is also not exactly moderate.
And I agree with you about humor, but when that humor always takes the form of perpetuating stereotypes and associating characteristics that are not valued by our culture with marginalized groups, then it is harmful because it serves to spread and enforce negative attitudes.
When I say moderate I mean that if you could somehow construct a line and put everyone in the population on it from more liberal to more conservative, the mean number of people with this belief would fall somewhere in the middle. I bet that a very large percentage of the population would agree with statements like "women are more nurturing than men", which to me makes it a moderate position. I think it's totally wrong, but I recognize that lots of people don't. Even those who might have otherwise progressive opinions. To me that makes it moderate.
I'm not sure that racial or sexist humor makes sense outside of stereotypes, because then what would be the humorous part? And it's not always negative to the minority. The first things I think of are black people being better at sports and asians/indians being better at math. Another one was my half-mexican friend having a superior ability to jump over fences... I'm not sure about that one.
"Requiring women to be economically dependent on men is also not exactly moderate."
Exactly - it's Taliban, not moderate.
Thank you for this post. I cannot tell you how my blood pressure rises when I hear a woman say, "I'm not a feminist but....I believe in equal pay and equal opportunity and all that" Well, my dear, you most certainly are a feminist whether you like the idea or not. I also resent seeing educated and professional women rant about the eeeebil feminists since they obviously haven't stopped to think that had it not been for feminism they'd still be at home and not by their own choice but because they wouldn't have been able to vote much less go to law or medical school and earn a substantial living from their lucrative career.
I think it also comes down to younger women making the assumption that there is no need to be a feminist because everything is equal now. Also, as happens as a side effect of any social movement, there are some fringe folks who do take things to the extreme and vilify all men as monsters and rapists and dead beat fathers, who claim that all heterosexual activity is akin to rape and that women shouldn't be dressing in a feminine fashion to attract men. That fringe gets a lot of attention because many people want to promote that negative image of feminists precisely so it will make it an unappealing sentiment for other women. Also, many women love their brothers, fathers, husbands, and sons and they want to distance themselves from anything they perceive as man bashing. What people usually don't stop to consider is that any social movement operates on a continuum and there are all kinds of people with varying views who support the main idea but don't always agree on how to best achieve the collective goal. That's true for conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, and Christians. Anyone can call themselves anything. However, I’ve yet to meet a Christian who refuses to call themselves that simply because they don’t want to get associated with Fred Phelps or Jerry Falwell. How many times have we seen self identified Christians disagree on issues like abortion, birth control, the death penalty, etc? Well, the same is true for feminists. If you believe that women should have the same social and educational and equal protection under the law as men, you are a feminist. Anyone who thinks there is no need for feminism is just misguided in their naïve belief that everything is already equal. It’s not just about the law. There are social issues like sexual double standards for instance that always trickle over into other systems like the law and employment. I think that it has become a loaded word that summons up a lot of (unfortunately negative) imagery and some women are afraid to get stereotyped.
Thank you for this post. I cannot tell you how my blood pressure rises when I hear a woman say, "I'm not a feminist but....I believe in equal pay and equal opportunity and all that" Well, my dear, you most certainly are a feminist whether you like the idea or not. I also resent seeing educated and professional women rant about the eeeebil feminists since they obviously haven't stopped to think that had it not been for feminism they'd still be at home and not by their own choice but because they wouldn't have been able to vote much less go to law or medical school and earn a substantial living from their lucrative career.
I think it also comes down to younger women making the assumption that there is no need to be a feminist because everything is equal now. Also, as happens as a side effect of any social movement, there are some fringe folks who do take things to the extreme and vilify all men as monsters and rapists and dead beat fathers, who claim that all heterosexual activity is akin to rape and that women shouldn't be dressing in a feminine fashion to attract men. That fringe gets a lot of attention because many people want to promote that negative image of feminists precisely so it will make it an unappealing sentiment for other women. Also, many women love their brothers, fathers, husbands, and sons and they want to distance themselves from anything they perceive as man bashing. What people usually don't stop to consider is that any social movement operates on a continuum and there are all kinds of people with varying views who support the main idea but don't always agree on how to best achieve the collective goal. That's true for conservatives, Democrats, Republicans, and Christians. Anyone can call themselves anything. However, I’ve yet to meet a Christian who refuses to call themselves that simply because they don’t want to get associated with Fred Phelps or Jerry Falwell. How many times have we seen self identified Christians disagree on issues like abortion, birth control, the death penalty, etc? Well, the same is true for feminists. If you believe that women should have the same social and educational and equal protection under the law as men, you are a feminist. Anyone who thinks there is no need for feminism is just misguided in their naïve belief that everything is already equal. It’s not just about the law. There are social issues like sexual double standards for instance that always trickle over into other systems like the law and employment. I think that it has become a loaded word that summons up a lot of (unfortunately negative) imagery and some women are afraid to get stereotyped.
" I cannot tell you how my blood pressure rises when I hear a woman say, "I'm not a feminist but....I believe in equal pay and equal opportunity and all that" Well, my dear, you most certainly are a feminist whether you like the idea or not. "
This idea has always bothered me. Perhaps we could discuss it a bit more?
So there's that cliche question of "why can't you call the movement egalitarianism, or humansism, instead of feminism?" to which there are many good answers for still using the word feminism. As I understand it, though, most of those answers have to do with each person having a personal identification with the word- they like to use the term feminism, because to them, that word sums up how they feel.
But I think that at the same time, if someone else thinks that humanism, or egalitarianism, is the term that sums up their beliefs, and they are uncomfortable with the word feminism because they think the word itself is not inclusive enough, or too outdated, or whatever, I think it's a little insulting to just tell them, "no dear, you're a feminist whether you like it or not".
I think everyone should be able to label their beliefs however they want. Well I do think you can't call yourself a feminist if you're against women voting, or a Socialist if you love capitalism, or claim ideologies that you clearly don't understand/support. But I think if someone wants to choose not to associate with a certain ideology despite having some beliefs in common with it, then that is their call.
Thoughts, anyone? I'm sure there are good reasons for both sides
I like your line of thinking with this. It may also be in something as insidiously human perhaps that occurs when almost any person is told "Yep. Doesn't matter what you think this is what you are...I hear you talking and articulating your thoughts and it's all well and good but, sorry, here's the pigeon-hole you belong in..." That is a bit exaggerated but what is often the first instinct when we are forbidden from doing or thinking something?
I agree with a lot of what is said here. It is disconcerting that I, too, feel awkward in certain circles when I am identifying myself as feminist. I also shy away from telling my mom I no longer consider myself catholic despite the years of rigorous suggestion during my youth. Maybe stems from the human need to be accepted or the need to please? But also we must take into account doubleb's ideas regarding hostility. Either way I favor "observation" and intelligent debate vs. judgment.
One thing I do have to disagree with though is a comment that "younger woman make the assumption their is no need..." I don't think it's an issue of age.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Was the age comment replying to me, though? Because I did not mention old or young women.
No, it was replying to me since I referenced age in my post. I'm basing my statement on my eexperiences working with younger women who have never lived in a world where women couldn't have abortions, be the boss of a company, or even open a bank account in their own name.
Mostly when the use of terms is in doubt parties should just agree on their meaning. I think that feminism as a movement has basically become egalitarianism. At the least, feminism is contained in egalitarianism, but concerns itself only with women. Which is sexist, and therefore not egalitarian. And thus a new paradox is born.
Yeah, the second part of what you said. It's a paradox, which is why I like to leave it up to the individual to say which side they fall on. There is no logical way to sort it out, that everyone agrees on. (Well, if you have one, please share! But I've never seen one)
I was basing my statement on the dictionary definition of feminism: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. That is the most straightforward definition I can locate. A woman who believes in equality between the sexes but doesn’t want to cop to being a feminist is like me saying I’m not a human just because I wish I wasn’t or because I don’t like the way humans behave most of the time. I can say I’m not human if I don’t want to call myself one but it won’t change what I am. It is what it is.
I'll assume that by human, you mean Homo sapiens, not the subjective experience of possessing "the human condition"*. Belonging to a species is a biological fact, so you can quantitatively say that it's true or it isn't. A feminist is "a person whose beliefs and behavior are based on feminism", according to dictionary.com**. Where my beliefs are based is not a fact that anyone but me can verify. When we're talking about beliefs and ideologies, there is no true/not true dichotomy, it's all subjective.
*Because there are people who really do not have this experience, such as sociopaths.
**I'm not pulling a definition of feminism from Feminism 101 or another feminist source, because if we're talking about a person who does not self-define as feminist, I'd want to use a universal definition.
This is subject to debate. A lot of theories of belief factor in self-confession as only one aspect of belief. I tend to think you can pretty much tell what a person believes by watching how they live their life. You may claim to believe that you could step out into traffic and everyone would stop for you, but the fact that you stay on the sidewalk tells me what you really believe. Similarly, when someone preferences a remark with "I'm not a racist, but..." and then proceeds to spout some offensive nonsense then I pretty much know exactly what they believe regarding race.
To me it is akin to saying that "I'm attracted to only men and not women but that doesn't mean I'm a heterosexual'. I suppose if I don't choose to label myself as a heterosexual I don't have to but it doesn't change what I am.
I think that part of the problem with being a "feminist" (at least as I see it defined in practice in places such as this blog) is that it seems to be more than believing in "equal pay and equal opportunity and all that."
I believe 100% in every woman's right and capability to take on powerful positions and reap just rewards, and it is important to me that any legal, social, or circumstantial impediments that stand in the way of that are broken down. That said, I would feel uncomfortable defining myself as a feminist because there seem to be other inherent issues that I do not choose to identify myself with.
First, I sometimes feel at odds around women who are very comfortable calling themselves feminists because they occasionally make me feel bad about myself for occasionally putting my boyfriend's needs ahead of my own, or for enjoying "feminine" things like cooking, fashion, watching romantic comedies, etc. My friends often criticize me for my desire to move from full-time work to freelance work at some point in the future (I am a book editor) so that I can stay at home when I have children. To me, this is confusing, since it seems as if feminism means that a woman can make her own choices, not that she has to follow a certain life path.
Second, the pro-choice movement has become very much linked to the feminist movement. I definitely do not identify with pro-life policies, but I do find myself feeling conflicted about abortion as it relates to my religious beliefs. I would never want my personal feelings to affect the range of choices available to someone else (and therefore would not support anti-choice legislation), but I have found on this blog and on others, that expressing feelings of conflict about abortion is seen as anti-feminist by others.
For me, those are a few of the reasons why I might hesitate to say that I am a "feminist" instead of someone who believes in equality or civil rights.
What a great example of my part (1) paragraph one.
I understand your point. I also have been told by other feminists that I'm not ‘feminist enough’ because I like makeup and pretty clothes. But, I don't let them and what I interpret to be their narrow definitions of how I should behave to determine how I see myself. I know there are a lot of hostile feminist women who aren't just satisfied with equality: they want to turn the tables and let women push men around to get even for centuries of oppression. Oh well. We can all be feminist in our own way. I understand that no one likes being told that they are really oppressed even if they aren’t feeling oppressed. It insinuates that someone else knows you better than you know yourself and it feels condescending. I’m not going to let another woman dictate how I should thing, look, or act any more than I would allow a man to do the same. It isn’t less oppressive coming from another woman.
I am curious about some of the responses here though. This website is called 'feministing' not 'egalitarianisting' or something like that. So, with so many women feeling uncomfortable identifying as feminist, why are they here so often? I mean, I also am guarded if someone asks me if I’m a feminist because I’m aware of the preconceived notions they may have and I don’t want them slapped on me. However, I wouldn’t shy away from saying I believe in feminist principles of gender equality. I like the term ‘egalitarianism’ and feel like it is more accurate in many ways for me. Most people wouldn’t know what I was talking about and maybe that means it’s time to start promoting this terminology. That said, I still have scorn for a woman who states she is not a feminist but she is pissed that she makes a dollar less an hour than her male co-worker doing the same job because it isn’t fair. I still think the term feminist has relevance because many things still favor the male perspective.
This conversation isn't about egalitarianism, it's about feminism, and why some people react the way they do to it. Egalitarianism just came up along the way, because the humanist/egalitarian/feminist debate is a common reason for some people to get all bristly about feminism. And people getting all bristly about feminism is a good thing to talk about on a feminist website.
But all of this is just a result of a simple misunderstanding. Feminism is not some monolithic thing, and in fact it would be more accurate to call it feminisms. That being said, people with varying beliefs can all identify as feminists while disagreeing on the details. In fact, that's exactly what feminism is already like.
(1) Feminism is an f-word because there is enough assumption out of there that all feminists are somehow a bunch of angry man-hating bra-burning butch ladies in their 40s. And hey... the mass media doesn't exactly try very hard to change those assumptions. Oh, yes, there are, of course, also some people saying "Well, I agree with some feminist ideas, but most feminists are too hard line for me...", but I think that tends to be a misinterpretation or ignorance of feminism. Feminism is about human rights.
(2) Oh, eventually, I hope it will no longer be an f-word. But I do think that there's a long and hard fight for feminism yet. It's still an f-word because feminist ideas haven't really taken hold in the world yet. It's still pretty outrageous to demand equal wages for women (we're still not getting them, are we?) or to say that a mother will go to work, while the father will stay at home (don't get me wrong here: I think it's totally awesome and for the best if one parent stays at home, irregardless of gender, BUT it's still expected and assumed to be the mother's job). Hey it's pretty outrageous to even go so far as to talk about female politicians' ideas rather than their outfits/families/bodies/"bitchiness". So, yeah, feminism is an f-word because it hasn't yet run its course, and it still has a long way to go.
I'd rather that feminism continues to be an f-word than backing down from it because a few people are uncomfortable with it. After all, "gay" and "transgendered" are still f-words too.
(3) By continuing to try to educate people about feminism and feminists. And continue to be active in political and social forums.
# 1: I disagree that feminism is an F-word because of some intolerant positions within it or because there are many differing opinions within feminism. If anything, humans have demonstrated an almost infinite amount of patience for intolerance and differences of opinion in many other movements in exchange for even the slightest perceived social pay-off.
Most negative reactions to the word seem to stem from from fear or anger over shifts in wealth and resources that will only amplify as more economies begin to prosper. But people tend to look for blame where it is convenient.
Demonizing feminism also allows a mechanism by which it is more acceptable to criticize women in general. And by keeping feminism as a social boogie man, it allows individuals to conveniently ignore the original social hierarchy that created a need for a feminist movement in the first place.
Lastly, feminism is an F-word because ironically there is a small, usually immediate social reward for not identifying as a feminist as woman. Many people wrongly interpret not identifying as a feminist as a move of conformity, regardless of the real reasons a woman chooses not to call herself one. The reward comes because conformity is generally seen as a desirable trait for women; and there is no damage done because any woman whether or not she identifies with the movement or calls herself a feminist can benefit from feminism.