Feminist Dating?

My 16 year old sister came up to my room the other day to tell me how she was bummed out about her boyfriend. Apparently he keeps making “that’s so gay” and uses the word “faggot” a lot. This is something that really offends her considering that in her spare time she does A LOT of gay rights activist work and so forth. SO they got into a big fight and she still felt terrible about that one time when one of his friend was blaming feminism for the way things are so screwed up today. He just squeezed her hand as if to signify for her not to say anything. So she didn’t say anything. This still bothers her today. So while she was telling me all this I was thinking of how to compose an answer for her when she interrupted my thoughts with that stinging question “How will I ever find someone better?” I stumbled over my answer and told her she didn’t need a boyfriend to be happy, etc etc. But it made me wonder. I am pretty lucky I have a progressive boyfriend who even claims to be a feminist, but not everyone is as lucky.

So my question is WHERE THE HELL ARE ALL THESE PROGRESSIVE MEN? My boyfriend can’t be the only one out there! I know that. But where are they? From my activist experience it is mostly straight women who are interested in gender issues and gay rights. Gay men and women are equally involved in gay rights but I have yet to meet another man other than my boyfriend who is as heavily involved. No not every woman needs a man, I know that but no one wants to be alone. So how do progressive people find each other, or even date each other? I’m just wondering if anyone knows. So to conclude my rant here, I told her that she’ll find a more progressive guy in college. She wants to make some pretty big changes in this world and so I told her that by spending time “changing” that one person who is supposed to be your equal, your partner, is a waste of time. People will change when they are ready to change, and she is too young to commit to a lifetime of arguments and frustration.

Posted by rootedwillow@yahoo.com - December 20, 2008, at 01:25PM | in Deep Thoughts
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15 Comments

As a girl who is also sixteen years old, I understand your sister's plight.

I know my brother is a very progressive, pro-feminist boy, but he's the only straight boy I know like that. However, I think it's largely a part of high school. Boys, just like girls, try and be cool and fit in, and one of the "cool" things is bigotry. I could site thousands of times when I've seen this play out. But I've also noticed that once these boys go through their first couple of years of college, the good ones tend to realize how stupid they were. I know many more college boys who are progressive, for gay rights, and even feminist, or at least pro-feminist. Most of the ones I've met come from my little conservative town, too. Then again, they are almost all going to college in Santa Fe. So maybe I'm seeing something different.

I'm sorry, I wish I could help more. But I'll assure her that there are boys out there who aren't sexist, homophobic, whatever. I've met some my age, and if she can't find some right now, by the time college roles around there should be plenty. Everyday I see the kids in my circle of friends move closer to a less hateful future. So I'm hopeful. But if your sister ever needs support, she's free to contact me via my blog. I understand how frustrating it can be.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tokidoki said:

Somehow, I managed to find an awesome progressive and feminist boyfriend in Texas of all places. We first started talking because we were sick of all the racist/classist crap the other honors kids/teachers would say. We were friends for a long time but after he helped me escape my abusive ex I fell for him.

It's kind of depressing, but I think some of the most open-minded people I've met have had crappy lives and high school years. (My boyfriend has an alcoholic family and was molested when he was younger.) I also think minorities/other oppressed groups are more likely to "get it" and start caring about civil rights a lot sooner since they're less privileged than the average white hetero male. (At least in my experience)

I'm just a year older than your sister, so I understand the UUUGH feeling. Most other guys I've met have been either a rapists or rape apologists. I lost all the people I had thought were friends when I came out about my abuse. Hopefully things will be better in college.

If she said “How will I ever find someone better?” I certainly hope they broke up soon after.


To answer the question, it's easier in college to find people who believe in the same things, because people sort themselves (into colleges, into student groups, into classes) in ways that encourage philosophical homogeneity. High schoolers have much more arbitrarily determined acquaintances.

After college . . . beats me. I met some great girls working on the Obama campaign. I also met some really cool women working on gay rights issues since the election, but I wasn't their type.

WHERE THE HELL ARE ALL THESE PROGRESSIVE MEN?

Generally, they aren't in high school... and the few boys that are progressive aren't "out" as progressive in high school. American high schools aren't exactly the most conducive environment for sensitivity, class, and fairness among the males of the species... to say nothing of the fact that boys in high school are as a rule less mature than those who are older. Your sister may get lucky and find a progressive boy in high school, but I'd put better odds on her running into a progressive fella at college or afterwards.

[0+] Author Profile Page feministinmississippi said:

you know what's harder than a feminist finding a boyfriend? an immigrant feminist finding a boyfriend. the guys in the "north" are not interested in anything more than casual sex, and the guys in the south...well, they're not interested in even associating. of course they're could be other reasons i don't get dates.

[0+] Author Profile Page Rebecca_J said:

My brothers who are two years younger than me were big on using the words "dyke" and "fag" when we were in high school. I think they were just trying to emulate the other guys and fit in. I'm not sure they even thought the people they used these insults against were actually gay. It just seemed like the worst thing they could call someone, probably. Now they are both 23 and the nicest guys you could ever imagine...and would never use those words. Maybe your sister's boyfriend will mature in time.
On the other hand, I don't know a lot of adults who are still with the person they dated at 16. I know I thought I loved the guy I dated at that age and thought he was the greatest guy ever. We broke up after 6 months, and in retrospect, he was an idiot. So I guess what I'm saying is 16 is WAY too young to be giving up on finding an awesome guy, if that's what she wants.
Progressive men ARE out there, even in high school, although I feel wierd calling high school students anything but boys and girls (maturity levels....). I guess it just depends where you live, the company you keep, the school you attend, etc.
Honestly a lot of women are not all that progressive themselves.

Your sister is having a hard time finding intelligent, mature, progressive men?

"My 16 year old sister"

I think I have discovered the problem.

I must confess that I never self-identified as a feminist until I was in my sophomore year of college. Then it hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm sure lots of guys (and let's be fair! lots of girls) find themselves in college.

But for a sixteen year old, it can be harder to meet people on your maturity level, if you happen to be very mature. Nevertheless, it can be done. Your sister shouldn't give up on the guy right away: she should tell him how she feels about phrases like "fag" and "that's so gay." (they're in the vernacular; it's probably second nature to many teenage boys) And she should speak up when his friends say hateful things. If he isn't the guy for her, she'll know it once she speaks up.

Sometimes, you take the moral high ground, and you get stranded for a few months, or even a few years. (but most of the time, if you say nothing, you're stranded, too, and only don't know it)

[0+] Author Profile Page SociologicalMe said:

Ok I realize this may not work as well with a teenage boy as with...anyone else, really... but I feel like someone has to at least throw the suggestion out there. Has your sister tried talking to her boyfriend, openly and honestly, about her objections to the things he's been saying? She was attracted to him in the first place for some reason, right? And he knows enough about her beliefs to caution her against talking in a difficult social situation. So maybe he really has progressive beliefs but feels bullied into acting like a dumbass. If she questions him, and he's got an ounce of respectful person inside him, maybe he'll start thinking before he speaks. And even if it doesn't work out between them, she will have started him on a path that will make him somebody else's good, progressive college boyfriend.
Ok, I'm now realizing that Transcend just said most of this. But it's worth repeating.

[0+] Author Profile Page Leonie replied to SociologicalMe :

As a guy's girlfriend one can also exercise quite a lot of leverage on someone's opinions. She might not notice it but just by being honest with her boyfriend about her opinions she is probably influencing him and his views of feminism in a positive direction. But in the end if he doesn't show more understanding she will probably go off him -- she sounds like she knows her own mind very well!

[0+] Author Profile Page MaggieF said:

I'm going to second everyone else who said "college," but I also wanted to add one thing:

She'll "find someone better" when she starts demanding someone better. Part of not needing a man in order to be happy is the ability to be picky about men (or whomever you date). She should tell her boyfriend how she feels, and not let him shut her up when his friends make stupid comments, and if he a.) cares about her and b.) is agreeable to her position, he'll start to reexamine his own attitudes.

Maybe. He is 16, after all.

All this is easier said than done, and has a way of considerably narrowing the pool of available choices, so to speak, but it might be a good start for her to know, intellectually if not actively, that she doesn't have to settle.

[0+] Author Profile Page Dominique said:

quote:
Part of not needing a man in order to be happy is the ability to be picky about men (or whomever you date).
unquote

This made me smile. I'm so picky I haven't had a date in about 18 months :) Luckily, no I don't need a man to be happy. They're too much work! I'm wondering when a critical mass of women will wake up and realize the cost-benefit analysis in question.

[0+] Author Profile Page rootedwillow said:

Thanks so much for the comments. She has definitely tried to talk to him before. His response was the she was too pushy in trying to "convert" him, to Feminism. I laughed at that. It is the first time I heard feminism being compared to a religion. She'll find her way, I know and she will be happy. Luckily she doesn't feel tied down by the relationship and she wants to travel and study abroad. That is a definite plus.

[0+] Author Profile Page sasha said:

She'll find someone better when she decides she deserves someone better.

[0+] Author Profile Page Laura said:

Though my boyfriend has never said outright that he is a feminist, I'd say that to some extent, he is one. I also have several male friends who are somewhere feminist. So they're out there.

(I'm also sixteen.)

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