Living in a small city in Pennsylvania in an apartment across from a bar has had its share of cat calling. While it is obnoxious, oppressive, and a constant reminder that sexism still exists, it is something that occurs every so often. I was discussing this issue with a roommate of mine, and she suggested that I look for a familiar car who honked instead of quickly hiding my body and damning the patriarchal society we live in.
I was leaving my apartment on a Friday afternoon and as soon as I start walking a car honks and whistles at me. I wanted to tell this person to go fuck themselves, or ask them if their technique ever did manage to get them some action or if they enjoy masturbating alone on a Friday night. I thought of all the empowering things I could say, all the things I wanted to say to the scum bag.
What is the proper reaction to a cat call? This issue came up in a feminist class I was in last year, and a woman said the best idea was to ask the men if they ever talk to their mother like that. Perhaps mentioning a mother or a sister would influence their thinking to realize that some guy is doing the same thing to their mother or sister and this would trigger some sort of negative impact.
All these thoughts come to my head as the car passed by as quickly as it had stopped to look at me. All I managed to do was put my head down, pull my sweater a little closer to my body and shake my head in disapproval. My roommate was calling me and I was about to tell her how pissed I was and all I hear laughing and the familiar whistling I had just heard in the background.
"That was my boyfriend trying to get your attentions Ash!"
Maybe I should pay attention to who is cat calling next time.
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I can relate to this. I lived in a pretty bad neighborhood for a while, and also did a lot of walking since I didn't have a car. I was walking home from my daughter's school one day after having a meeting with her teacher, enjoying my ice coffee when I heard a car honk ahead of me, and someone calling out to me. I didn't even really hear what he was saying, I just vehemently ignored him, even gave him the stink eye as I proceeded to walk past, head especially high. Well after about another few seconds of calling, and as I got closer it turned out to be one of my daughter's friends father's, and his wife was in the car. It turns out they wanted to offer me a ride back to the apartment complex. I felt horrible even after I profusely apologized.
The automatic association of cat calling with "bad neighborhoods" racializes and criminalizes the poor, suggesting that people in "good neighborhoods" aren't sexists also.
Watch that language, please.
I think you're the one being racist and classist by suggesting that "bad neighborhood" means "black area" or "poor area." Nothing in Lynn's post suggests either. In context "bad" meant "bad about catcalling." Least that's how I read it.
Look at the way that these men are being described. I am not the one making the assumption. Just because you are unaware of the ways that language is used to reify racism and classism, doesn't mean that me pointing it out makes me "too sensitive" or racist.
Exactly. For all we know, all parties to the story could be black, all white, all Asian, etc.
Maybe I should pay attention to who is cat calling next time.
I think people need to realize the social significance of honking at women on the street. Nobody should expect a woman to look at who's honking at her.
I concur. Given how frightening and shaming catcalling and other harassing behavior is, it's insensitive to mimic it as a joke or a way to get a person's attention.
In truth, though, I feel sorry for the WOMEN who respond to GENUINE (not the situations you described here, but the situations where they walk by a construction site and get whistled at) cat-calls.
Why?
Because they're catering to an ages-old, erroneous belief that they need a man to validate their worth. As if they're not truly beautiful if they don't get greasy, uneducated buffoons to whistle at them. :P
How sensitive of you. They must be baffoons if they're working a blue-collar job. However sexist they may be, you need to get off your high feminist horse and realize that all forms of discrimination are not okay.
Are you kidding me? That person was obviously talking about women who respond positively to cat calls by walking over to the guys and flirting with them or whatever because they think these men actually respect and like them.
Liz was replying to akashamultimedia's classism in calling working-class men "greasy, uneducated baffoons". It's so not cool to fight sexism with classism- it's just destructive.
Yes.
Agreed.
The best response I've ever seen.. a car honks and catcalls. My friend looks up, makes a ugly face with her tongue stuck way out and yells ARGGHHGHGH
It was beautiful and hugely empowering although I have to admit it hurts my throat to repeat it.
I agree with "AnUnfunnyFeminist." I mean, cat calling was the impetus of one of the deaths on an episode of Six Feet Under. Cat Calling is a sort of threat, and I'm often surprised at how many guys don't get that anything resembling cat calling is not only offensive, but can lead to the woman getting hurt while trying to hide or escape from the cat calling.
I (manly man that I am) like responding to catcalls targeting women I'm walking with. I tilt my hips, smile shyly over my shoulders, and wave by curling my fingers one by one. Sometimes it's a "who me?" innocent pose instead.
It's a toss-up whether or not it helps the feminist cause, but I have a fun time doing it.
(On an unrelated note, I just tried to combine the words "feminists" and "males" to describe male feminists. "Females!" I thought. "No, wait...")
LOL @ "females." That was cute.
I like that reaction very much. It reminded me of the time my brother, his girlfriend, and I went to a Mets game and the Kiss Cam came on. I told my brother's girlfriend that if the Kiss Cam lands on her and him, she should lean over my brother and kiss me instead. The Kiss Cam didn't land on us, unfortunately, because that would have been hilarious.
Hi, this topic was covered in a whole bunch of posts that were very helpful to me. The long and short is that there may be behaviors that feel better to you, but since the whole thing is supposed to keep you in your place as a woman, there is no way to "win".
http://www.feministing.com/archives/009231.html
http://www.feministing.com/archives/007244.html
http://www.feministing.com/archives/006164.html
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/dont_be_that_guy/
http://pandagon.net/index.php/site/comments/creative_misogynists_still_unable_to_imagine_letting_go_of_the_hate/
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2008/05/cnn-headline-nooz.html
I never respond to cat-calls because I am Deaf. but I am not stupid; I know when I've been cat-called.
i grew up in buffalo, ny - and went to school in boston - so i've been around my fair share of cat calling, and i've always absolutely HATED it.
so one day i was walking down the street, and these 2 guys start in with it all.... i made it about 5 feet past them, stopped, turned around and said "you know what? i really don't appreciate being talked to that way". i don't know what i was thinking... but they both looked at me with their mouths open, recovered themselves, and apologized profusely.
i'm not saying that it will work in every situation, but more often than not i find that it diffuses the entire situation...
That once worked for me too. I was walking down a quiet road one Saturday morning and walked past two men who cat-called, except here they make that hissing sound people sometimes use to call dogs.
I stopped dead in my tracks, turned around and walked right up to them and hissed in their faces..."Do I look like a dog? I'm a human being and you will speak to me with respect."
They were absolutely shocked at being confronted because most women here are (understandably) too afraid to confront men who act so aggressively. (We have a very high rate of violence against women here in South Africa.)
I refused to budge, even when they tried to walk around me and I insisted they greet me properly and respectfully. Eventually they mumbled a "good morning" and a "sorry".
I think it worked because I was so bloody angry I could've taken them apart with my bare hands and they could see that.
Usually I just ignore the cat calls though. I'd be dead from sky high blood pressure if I allowed myself to react every time.
What i hate about catcalls, or annoying public improper sexist behavior in general is that so often, i'm not expecting it (Ahh, i'm such an optimist) so when it happens, i freeze and by the time i think of something to say, it's too late.
When i am expecting it however, or when my reaction time is quick, i almost always respond and tailor my response to whatever they happen to be saying. If they're doing the hissing sound, i make a comment about how i'm not a cat and how their way of approaching me is insulting and follow it with some insult usually involving the words "fuck" and "asshat" (I'm so lady-like). Usually, it shuts them right up cuz they're not expecting it. If it's a dark and quiet street though, i usually don't say anything for fear of provoking a violent response. I absolutely hate that i have to feel that way.
Oh, and some asshole hipster yesterday pointed to his genitals and said to me "this is my dick. I can put it in you." I mean, what the hell do you say to that? it's gross and threatening (not exactly a 'cat call' - but somewhat on-topic) i was shocked, i just made an "eww" face and kept walking. I wish i had reacted and put him in his place though. sigh.
I would have replied, "This is my fist. Where would you like it?"
I've only been catcalled by someone I didn't know two or three times (my girlfriend gets it far more often) and have always found that the callers respond well to a show of force.
it always amazes me what utter shit some men think will somehow attract women (or maybe they're just being arseholes? I never know) I once got a blow job mimed at me after I spied a cute guy across a pub and smiled at him... needless to say he suddenly looked a lot less cute. If I hadn't been so flummoxed I would've mimed a castration back...
sigh the curse of thinking of the perfect retort when it's too late.
I've had some luck turning to the cat caller and very soberly asking him, "Why are you doing that? Do you like to make women feel afraid?" or something along those lines. At least I got one person to apologize that way, and got another person to appear embarrassed. I also got myself into a dangerous situation that way once, though, and I've had some people continue to try to hit on me while I was in the middle of telling them off. It does seem that some cat callers just want interaction, any kind of interaction, and that even getting a lecture feels like a victory for them. But I just can't shake the feeling that when we ignore them they also see that as a victory.
I do think that on some level a lot of them have convinced themselves that women enjoy cat calls, that it's somehow a legitimate courtship technique, so telling them firmly that we don't like it could work for some. I also think it's good to talk to the men in our lives about how often it happens and how it makes us feel. The men I've told have seemed very surprised.
"I also got myself into a dangerous situation that way once"
It makes me so sad that you feel like that. You didn't put yourself in that situation. They put you there.
I'm not yelling at you. I totally understand where you're coming from, and hearing it come from someone else made me feel really sad.
Re: Legitimate courtship techniques--before he sort of caved in and became more establishment, Eddie Izzard used to do some beautiful comedy about catcalls and similar, partly because he received so many himself. One of my favorite routines is the one about how catcallers wouldn't be able to cope if the victim turned around and said, "What, you want a go? All right, let's do it." He reckoned their tiny brains would just implode if that happened.
I hate when I am cat -called when I am walking with my kids. Like,not only do these men do not have respect for me, but could care less about the children who are walking next to me. I do not say anything but I have a look that can kill and that usually do the trick.
Check out this video title "Black Woman Walking" by Tracie Rose.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp-Eq6QGSfI_
your link didn't work for me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp-Eq6QGSfI
is correct (it doesn't have the last "_")
Oh, and don't read the comments. That's just the cardinal rule of youtube.
One time on e of them was making that "pssst! pssst!" noise at me, and I turned to him and said "what, you got a leak?" because it sounded like air out of a bike tire, and some bystanders laughed. If they follow or touch me I tend to make a whole production, and they don't like that. But if they're just yammering or making gestures I don't care, because when I'm walking someplace, wherever I have to be is more important to me than stopping to confront some random idiot who only likely will dig even negative attention. Plus I love my iPod, so even when I see them doing it I can't really make out what they're saying over the music, which I also consider more important than them.
I don't even respond to cat-calling anymore. Although I carry the faulty thinking that if I kept ignoring guys, and other women did too, that they'd get the hint...that thinking is very VERY wrong! ;)
I do at least try to turn around with honking, though, depending on the place. I've had so many people in my classes honk at me while I'm walking downtown, just to say "hi." Also, when I was walking to the grocery store back home, some idiot kept honking behind me and yelling something. I turned around and saw a UPS truck slowly driving beside me. I didn't even bother looking at the driver and I glared at his general direction until he sped off.
Found out that it was my uncle on his route. I completely forgot that he was working for UPS. He was trying to give me a ride home, since he does that with all of the relatives he sees on his route. My family STILL howls with laughter at the story.
The thing is, it's a shame in some ways, with our IPods, and assumption of who is yelling/honking, that those people who are genuinely trying to get our attention need to pull out a cell phone. It actually makes me sad. My friends who are trying to get my attention won't get any because some stupid guys pulled the same thing a few days ago. I've resolved to turning around for the most part, and ignoring the people if I need to.
As a man I have been cat called at several times, though mostly from gay men, or from straight men pretending to be gay men.
I was cat called at by a woman once, but it was my wife, so it actually caused me to feel better.
However, I can understand how annoying it would be to have a complete stranger cat call at you.
What I think we should do is have the DVM give out telephone numbers when license plate numbers are given, so that women can call and give a piece of their minds to the strange men that cat called at them.
Or if that idea fails due to those pesky privacy laws, have an internet site ready where women can report the license plates of the cars driven by men that cat call them, so that such strange men can be identified and properly dealt with before they make their next cat call.
How to deal with them? Spray paint and tire irons could provide some ideas.
You could also give women the ability to upload cell phone photos to the "cat call" license plate internet data base site. Image how all those construction workers are going to feel if their wives/GFs find cell phone photos of them on the "cat call" site.
I'm not sure what the current laws are about street harassment, but yeah, it would be nice if A) there were laws about it, B) they were enforced, and C) there were some effort made to encourage people to report incidents. I've memorized license plates of street harassers and then forgotten them when I realized I had no reason to think the police would care.
I do want to say, though, that for me at least cat calls et al aren't just annoying, but I find them threatening. I've had people begin by cat calling me and then continue by following me. I've had someone begin by cat calling me and then continue by assaulting me. I've had strangers regularly shout obscenities at me on the street, I've had them make graphic comments about my body, and I once had a stranger angrily glare at me and threaten to rape me as he passed. So that's the context that cat calls have for me.
You are possibly part of the small percentage of women that has been a victim of violence more times than I have been (but probably not). Statically men are far more often victims of violence than women are, and I get confronted, accosted, physically challenged, and attacked on a almost weekly basis, but I have never been a victim of sexual violence (several women did grab my crouch in clubs/bars, but I didn't consider it assault because I was good friends with the women who did it).
I would rather not swap victim of violence stories with you, but I will say that due to past traumas I have a hard time writing and typing my thought so that they are made clear.
I am sorry that you've been through a lot, but since you don't know me I'd prefer if you didn't speculate about how much violence I have or have not survived.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I though you were being less than truthful.
I believe everything you wrote, as they sound like a lot of the accounts that every woman tells me about, but even with all of the incidents in which you have been a victim of violence, I still think you have been a victim of violence fewer times than I have.
But I have never been a victim of sexual violence.
"I still think you have been a victim of violence fewer times than I have"
You have no reason to think that, since you know nothing about my life or what I've been through. It's inappropriate to make such assumptions about strangers. And even if it's true that you've suffered more violence than I have, what do you accomplish by saying so, other than to minimize my experiences? Talk about your own experiences if you want, but please don't make assumptions about mine.
No
But I know what I have been through in my life.
A very small percentage of western women have been victims violence more times than I have. You may be part of that percentage, but I doubt it.
Unless we are talking about only sexual violence, in which I am sure you got me beat, because I have never been a victim of sexual violence (probably because I have never been to prison).
Statically men are far more likely to be victims of violence than women are.
Let me put it this way.
How many times have you had to go to the emergency room because someone attacked you?
If the answer is 5 or more, then you are in my dubious league.
This will be my last comment on this topic, as it is something I would rather not write about.
I'm a runner. When I get catcalled, if possible, I blow some snot out of my nose for them. If I can, I do it whenever men are around on a run - before they get any ideas.
A lot of creative responses. Personally, I just smile and wave.
Laurylen, I'm cracking up!
I've been thinking about this subject, too, because I had a particularly embarrassing moment the other day. I live in a certain midwest college town where there is a large state university. I work the second shift at one of the university libraries and take the bus, so I end up having to walk through fraternity row and undergraduate housing just before midnight. Because I'm coming from work, I'm almost always dressed nicely and rarely a night goes by without some 20 year old moron says something to me. It's a pretty safe area just annoying. I usually just choose not to dignify it with a response, but I realized just how much it gets to me a few weeks ago. It was rather icy out, and I slipped. There was a large group of guys at a house out drinking and laughing. Something hit me, and I, thinking they had thrown a full beer can, told them to screw off. I ran home scared to death. My boyfriend, very feminist and supportive, talked me into the idea of calling the police. Before we did so we went back to the scene of the crime, and I realized my mug had fallen off my bag hitting me in the back and leg and splashing what I thought was the beer on me. Needless to say I was mortified, but couldn't stop laughing at myself for hours.
Later I realized that if I didn't feel so threatened by this aggressive male behavior, I would have taken the time to realize what was going on.
God. Today I was walking my (incredibly cute, lovable) Collie-mix Sunny and I saw this dude walking together with a young kid. Usually I try to be respectful (many people in my neighborhood act uncomfortable around larger dogs) and I redirect Sunny to the curb. The kid said something about the dog, and seemed excited, and Sunny is super-friendly. So, trying to reverse some of the negativity surrounding dogs, I offered to let the kid pet Sunny (as I often do with other kids, with mostly positive results).
I said, "You can pet her if you want, she's very friendly." To which the kid's father interjected (with his four remaining teeth): "Are YOU friendly?"
I asked, "WHAT?" Even though I'd heard him clearly, and he repeated himself, grinning.
No time to come up with a snappy retort. I think this is a common thread in some of these stories. It's just such a slap in the face to be so totally objectified by some stranger.
what does his lack of teeth have to do with this story?
I dunno...I'm not saying that wasn't close-quarters catcalling -- after all, I wasn't there -- but it seems like that might've just been a joke, along the lines of the old "'dog bites man' isn't news; 'man bites dog' is."
My husband and I whistle at each other to get each other's attention (better than yelling a name) or to find each other (echo-location). It's not a wolf-whistle but a special up-and-over sort of whistle. I've started using it to find other people I know...even if they don't :-p
That said, a neighbor of mine said he saw me one morning during my daily walk and honked at me. He said I gave him a dirty look and he felt guilty about it. I did not see him, or even remember it happening, but I stand by my dirty-look-at-random-honkers.
Liz was replying to akashamultimedia's classism in calling working-class men "greasy, uneducated baffoons". It's so not cool to fight sexism with classism- it's just destructive.
my bad; that wasn't meant to be posted there :)
I agree that cat calling is wrong, but clearly women take every shout and whistle as some attack on feminism.
Women Be Trippin
And you're here . . . why?
Look, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Maybe your friend's boyfriend should get a clue and understand that most women will perceive a car following them as a threat. Safety trumps manners. "Hey Ash!" would have also gotten your attention.
I recently had a successful response to a catcall!
(well, I felt like it was successful, anyhow)
I was walking up the subway steps to the street, and this guy behind me starts in with
"hey beautiful, smile for me!" (note, he hadn't even seen my face at this point)
I go a few more steps...
"Hey baby, it's a beautiful day, why don't you smile?! come on, baby."
Then I turned around to look at him and said something like:
"I work. I have places to be. I'm on my lunch break right now. When I walk down the street there's 10 or 20 of you. Am I supposed to give each of you my time? What do I owe to each of you, huh??"
And he stopped, hung his head and said
"Oh. You're right. Sorry. No, you're right. I'm sorry."
Who knows what his behavior will be like in the future... but I was pretty impressed I got some sort of positive reaction out of him at all. Because I've never gotten that before through either telling guys off, flipping them the bird, ignoring them, etc.
I hate it when men on the street tell me to smile. It always seems like they think they're being nice and flirty. (I know, I'll tell her that the way she expresses her emotions is wrong! Women love that.) It doesn't help that I've had teachers/parents tell me to smile on many occasions, I'm not sure why anyone thinks this is a good idea. Anyway, the most success I've had in this situation is this:
Stranger: "Hey, give me a smile!"
Me (unsmiling): "I don't have to."
Stranger: "Huh? Hmm, that's right, you don't."
For me, anyhow, when it changes from anything remotely flirty to harassment is when they persist after you've made it clear you're not interested. (the way this guy was like come on and was trying to get me to stop, turn around, and give him attention)
Oh, I didn't mean to suggest it wasn't harassment, sorry if I wasn't clear about that. I have no idea if the man in your situation thought he was being nice or not, but I definitely think it was harassment, regardless of what he thought. To me it kind of adds insult to injury when someone harasses me and then insists he was just trying to be nice.
Did you smile for him?
It doesn't sound like anything he said could even vaguely be consider harassing, though "baby" is one of the less impressive endearments. In fact he may have been a nice guy based on what he did say to you.
Most importantly he said it all to you in a well lighted crowded place, and said it to you in a way that you could respond to him.
Doesn't even really sound like a cat call.
But I am impressed with your response, and I am betting he was too.
What will you do if you ever see him again?
If you frequently and routinely use that subway station, he may have been building up the courage to finally say something to you (and may have been thinking of you as beautiful for a long time before he said anything to you).
In the context of culture-wide sexism, the assumption is that Nice Girls smile, because the happy smiles of women show compliance with the norm and approval of the men they encounter. It's fine for men to be unsmiling, but not for women. I find this comparable to racist images of Black people from the early 20th century--always grinning, always happy, in pointed denial of what Black persons really experienced on a daily basis.
Sexism runs so deep and is so insidious that even something so simple and human as a smile becomes charged with layers of additional meaning. Something that should come from within, and be voluntary, becomes something men feel entitled to demand from women, as if we're robots or domesticated animals. It's a sad example of how even the smallest details of women's behavior have been co-opted.
I mean you no disrespect, and I am not at all doubting you, but I have never heard of that particular form of "culture-wide sexism".
But I must admit I don't read much about feminism or sexism.
Still I am baffled; why is requesting (are you sure it was demanding?) a woman to smile sexism?
If it was in the office, and they told her they would fire her if she didn't smile,,,, yeah, that sounds like sexism. But asking a girl/woman at a subway station to smile doesn't sound like sexism.
I remember when I was really young, some friends and I liked to walked closely behind women in mini-skirts as they climbed up stairs, and that definitely was crude and immature, but was it sexist or harassing? Amazingly we always managed to get away with it without getting caught (probably because we were so young, and the women were so much older).
Don't worry, I haven't done that since I was 14, unless the stairs were really crowded and I had no choice, and even in that situation I never lingered behind a woman.
In my early 20s one of my GFs and I liked to grope each other and make out in public buses that were jammed pack.
Asking a strange woman you don't know to smile for you is sexism because it assumes that women exist to be pretty for men, to perform/act for men, etc. If I'm not smiling, it has nothing to do with strange people I'm passing in the street - I don't exist for them. But by telling me to smile, a strange man is saying that I do.
Does the word "hypersensitive" mean anything to you?
If no man can ever ask a woman to smile, then the world is not going to be a very fun place to live in.
Please relax, and smile, because the world, and men, are not as bad as you seem to think.
Oh yes, I'm a woman, of course I'm hypersensitive and hysterical and my feelings aren't really valid.
Seriously, after reading your comments for a few days, I think you need to start listening more and talking less, and reading up on Feminism 101.
Women aren't here to make the world a fun place for men that they don't know.
Actually it is my philosophy that men are here for women's entertainment.
You're just too hypersensitive to be able to enjoy anything we do.
Not hysterical, paranoid.
Like I said; please relax, and smile, the world, and men, are not as bad as you think they are.
Are you sure I'm not listening to women?
Or are you just not listening to men?
The best response I've seen to catcalling came from my dad. Whenever he was with my mom, (or my sister, or myself) and a man would honk and/or whistle, my dad would wave, say "thank you!" and blow a kiss right back. It may not have stopped the behavior completely, but in the moment, it visibly unseated the offending parties, causing their cognitive abilities to halt, as their mind and face raced each other to figure out if it was a joke on my dads' part.
(Please note that I am just sharing what I thought was a very entertaining, yet unconventional approach from my youth. I am *not* saying we all need men to handle our problems for us; that is not my point at all.)
Granted, my father is not around anymore, and there are certainly more mature ways (as seen above) to handle this situation. However, for me as a teen, it was a good solution. It avoided all the embarrassment and hurt by immediately diffusing the situation and giving us something to laugh about later.
This post had particular resonance for me, as one can see from the number of replies I've left throughout the thread. I've been catcalled off and on for much of my life since puberty, largely with a hateful or violent edge (homophobic or other slurs, threats of rape, etc.). Some of it has to do with my having a well-developed figure but being otherwise unattractive, a mix which seems to inflame catcallers to spectacular heights of hatred; some of it has to do with my "looking like a lesbian," whatever that means. (Yes, I know why people assume I'm a lesbian, but the assumption is a prime example of bullshit homophobic stereotyping.)
Last Sunday, I experienced the logical extension of the catcall--an outright, random, physical attack--and it's renewed my fears about walking down the street or, hell, being in public at all. The details are few: I was walking down the street when a passenger in a passing SUV hurled, with great force and accuracy, a full beverage container straight at my bosom. It strikes me as inevitable and sad that I was somewhat unsurprised by the attack--it was just a slightly worse event in a lifelong string of similar episodes. Even worse was when I tried to report the episode to the police and the dispatchers refused, twice, to take the call. Violence against women is so normalized in our society that nothing short of a deadly attack gets a response from police, and sometimes not even then.