Show of hands: How many of you ladies have mothers who encouraged patriarchal ideals? Forced anti-feminist view on you? Do you think these experiences made you more likely to become a feminist? Are you wary of motherhood, in case you pass on the same ideals?
There's a million ways I can think of that mothers are doing this, sometimes its subconscious, just from being a part of this society, and other times I think the mothers are doing it on purpose.
Did your mother ever put you on a diet? Mine did. I was 10. I wasn't fat. I wasn't allowed to eat watermelon, because it was pure sugar! She did this so I would be one of the popular girls, she hinted at a few years later. Popular girls have perfect, tight, toned bodies, and everyone knows that watermelon goes right to your thighs!
Did your mother force you into traditionally female pasttimes? I always wanted to play soccer. But no, only boys play soccer. Soccer is violent, there's running, and there's kicking. There's sweat. Sweat is manly. Nice girls don't sweat. So I was signed up for ballet classes. (On my first day the teacher told me I was fat and should work on sucking in my stomach, I was 7. But that's a whole other post, isn't it).
Did your mother pressure you to be popular (and promiscious) while at the same time pressuring you to be sweet, innocent, and feminine? I think this one is mostly subconscious, because of the virgin/whore complex that's often talked about on here. I don't think mothers would try and confuse their daughters like this on purpose. I've been (VERY) happily single for about a year now, and my mother has asked me more times than I can count some variation of these questions:
(1) What's wrong with you?
(2) Maybe you're just a bitch. Have you tried being nice?
(3) Are you a lesbian?
The funny thing is, despite this pressure to be popular, promiscious, and constantly boyfriended, I suspect most of our mothers also encouraged us from a young age that "boys were trouble" and/or "nobody will buy the cow if you give away all the milk". I personally didn't enjoy being compared to a milk-less dried out old cow, but thankfully, there was also "nobody will buy a loaf of bread if you've given away all the nice middle slices and there's only the crusty ends left". Once I dared to sit with my knees a (horrifically slutty) 2-3 inches apart, and was quickly reprimanded, before anyone could see what an STD-infested slut I was. (...)
Please share any and all thoughts! (esp. the questions at the top, pwetty pwease).
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Society loves to heap all the blame on mothers.
My mother did the best she could. She was the first of her family to go to college, to move away from the state, to get a divorce. She told me and my sister we could do anything, be anything, femaleness did not discount my opinion. Now she has two loud ass, powerful girls.
Did she instill the value of the patriarchy in us? Did she ever stop me from leaving the house because I was "dressed like a whore"? I could go on forever here.
I am just so damn tired of women tearing down their mothers.
I wouldn't tear down my mother if she hadn't done things like bullying me into getting my eyebrows waxed when I was 14.
Some moms just suck. Mine is so obsessed with her looks that she would sometimes not take me to ballet or make me late for school because she couldn't get her hair to look good enough to leave the house. She ridiculed me when I wore a shade of lipstick that she didn't like, or when I wore clothes she didn't like. My teenage sister had this creepy internet boyfriend, and when I asked my mom if she was uncomfortable with that, my mom informed me that I was just jealous because I was single. When I was in high school, she told me over and over about how I was supposed to have a boyfriend to take me out every Saturday night like she did when she was my age.
And then there was all the non-feminist related stuff where she could never say she was sorry or admit she was wrong about something, let me know that being a mom was boring, and communicated through shrieks and screams. I'm quite convinced she doesn't really have FEELINGS, she just has ideas about how things can or can't benefit her. My mom didn't do her best because she doesn't have a best. She's never nurtured or mothered or parented, and when my dad left her, she tried to wield me like a weapon against him.
Luckily, my dad and my stepmom and various aunts and uncles and older cousins have given me an otherwise great family. And furthermore, I don't "blame" my mom for anything - unlike her, who insists that my grandmother is to blame for all her failings (because taking responsibility would be akin to jumping off a bridge), I'm an adult who's fully responsible for my actions. If anything, my mom gives me a guide on how to not act.
I didn't mean to write a novel, but you touched a nerve there.
I think you both have a point. There is too much mom-blaming in our culture, and most moms really are trying to do their best for their kids. However, there are also moms (and dads!) who have serious personal issues and take them out on their kids. Both of these scenarios are real, and both should be taken seriously. The well-intended moms who believe that conforming to patriarchal ideals will help their kids be well-adjusted and happy can encourage this without being cruel or disparaging to their kids. It's still misguided, but well-intended. But neglecting and mistreating a child is a whole other thing.
I honestly don't think anyone can speak generally unless they know every side to the story and are evaluating objectively. Women who DON'T blame their mothers don't necessarily have to insult those who do for, possibly, good reason.
Onto the selfish, talk-about-myself part: my Mom is and always has been phenomenal. She raised two girls, nearly alone, and has instilled in us the very values I believe to this day - we can do anything, we can go anywhere, learn as much as possible, etc. However, while raising my sister and I, she simultaneously put up with an extremely abusive husband, and still does. Sometimes my sister and I struggle with respect and say things that are, right or wrong, out of line. While she has instilled great values within us, she has had a hard time practicing them herself. I don't at all blame her for the path my sister is currently on, but if she'd affected me directly in any way by intervening with my diet, my clothes, or said cruel things about my body or personality, who knows where I'd stand on the Mom issue today.
Don't ever knock a theory until you've considered each point of view. I know it's kind of difficult to be a feminist today without a strong personality with strong beliefs and the need to constantly express them, but sometimes it's been harder for others in this world and I'm pretty sure we should all respect that.
We should also bear in mind that our mothers grew up in a different world than us: they were raised differently by THEIR mothers (the generation that passionately ignited feminism did not exactly recruit the majority of women who then bore children...), with different beliefs. It's hard to even know where they are coming from, on occasion. As much as my mother promotes traveling, being single, and being strong, among many other positive beliefs, she still discusses my future as if I'm GOING to get married and I'm GOING to raise children with a husband... of course, not necessarily by any fault of her own.
My mother worked and valued ambition and was pro-choice and all that, but she also wanted me to be more "girly" and wanted me to be "popular", without having a real understanding of what it took to be a "popular" girl in my school (not so much promiscuity as having the right staus symbols/social standing.)She had gone to a Catholic school in the 60's where everyone wore uniforms, and from what I understand the 60's weren't as label conscious. I went to a public school in the materialistic 80's where that was all that counted.
In the long run though I'm glad she didn't have the money to buy me Guess jeans and all that crap, I didn't turn out "popular" but I turned out "interesting" for not being able to conform.
Anyway, this is probably more about consumerism than feminism. I'm not sure how the obsession with popularity some people have plays into patriarchy.
Sometimes, as in my case, it is the mother. My mom was raised slightly liberally, but somehow snapped and went super conservative. She's abstinence only, believes I shouldn't wear shorts and won't even talk about women's health. She is against form fitting clothing of any kind, and constantly reminds me of how my brother is better simply because he is a boy.
It always bothers me that people either act like it's all their mother's fault or mothers are blameless. In my case, she has made conscious choices to behave and believe as she does. I have eaten carrot sticks for months, I did ballet, I went to all the "girly" stuff and it never took. She wanted a cute little blonde haired blue eyed snowflake, and though I did fit that physical description at one time, I have always been more along the lines of the Pink kind of blonde. My mother made me realize that it is up to me to pull myself out of this rut the women in my family are in and make sure I don't pass these ideas on to my children, should I have them.
There are several women in my life who are rolemodels and mothers to me. They have helped me love my body and myself. My biological mother taught me to hate my body and its shape, and that I was only good for giving her grandchildren.
And a yes, to all the questions above.
"It always bothers me that people either act like it's all their mother's fault or mothers are blameless. In my case, she has made conscious choices to behave and believe as she does."
...and in other cases, other mothers made other choices. You're right, both the "it's all mothers' fault" side and the "all mothers are blameless" side ignore that mothers are individual people too instead of a monolithic blob.
Right on.
I think this is a kind of complicated topic. Generally speaking I think mothers are trying to do whatever they think will bring about the best results for their children. Unfortunately this used to, and often still does, involve transmitting patriarchal values. It's kind of ironic that it's so often the women who teach this to the next generation.
My mom wanted me to be more girly and had a fairly conservative religious worldview, but she never spoke to me in a disparaging way. I think she had a hard time understanding me, since I grew up in a different world than she did, and my dad really encouraged us to be independent thinkers. She definitely still holds the Victorian "angel in the house" ideal for women, but she's a great mom in that she loves all her kids no matter how different from her we may be.
The thing that's so frustrating to me about being a mother is that you can't control all the influences on your girls. They are exposed to patriarchal ideas and values in spite of your best efforts. We encourage our girls to engage in a wide range of activites and play with toys that they enjoy, regardless of the cultural perception of gender-appropriateness. We tend to dress them in a gender-neutral way most of the time and do not model conventional gender roles in our household (ie I change the oil, my partner does the laundry, etc). But no matter how hard you try, they're still exposed to a lot of gender normative bullshit from other kids and teachers at school, other parents, the TV, etc. Feeling like other forces, that you profoundly disagree with, are going to shape your child is a very frustrating experience.
I love my mom to pieces. She raised me and my brothers to be independent thinkers and never really adhered to traditional methods of raising boys v.s. girls -- we were all allowed to do wat made us happy. I'm incredibly grateful for this. Interestingly, though, I was having a conversation with her not too long ago, and she told me she worried that raising us the way she (and my dad) have has made life more difficult for us (I would say all three of us fall into the 'weirdo' and 'nerd' catagories as far as our peers go). I basically told her that was silly; for all that high school might suck for us, we're better prepared to go out into the world as confident, productive adults. Still, this kind of guilt made me realize just how damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don't parenthood can be. It's not an excuse, but I think parents are usually trying to do what they think is best for their kids, and sometimes this manifests itself in damaging ways.
I'm currently sixteen years old. When I was four, my grandmother talked my mother into making me do ballet instead of soccer, which I wanted to do. After a year, I flat out refused to go.
Over the past year, my mother has asked my on several occasions if I've a lesbian because "you don't have a boyfriend." Because clearly, you're only straight if you have a man.
I'm a lesbian*
My Mom (and Dad) raised me to be the best I could be. They encouraged me to study, be good at school, to never be ashamed of my smarts, to work hard, and all that good stuff. They let me follow my own pursuits even though a good deal of them weren't at all feminine. However there was one very important caveat with all that. I was NEVER allowed/encouraged to participate in sports or any kind of hard physical activity. The best I ever did was a year of tennis in jr high before they suggested that I focus on academics again. They were so overprotective of me that I never got to go out with friends (or even make that many) or date until the very end of high school. So in that sense they pigeonholed me into that 'quiet little virgin girl' stereotype.
Now... my family... they *loved* to push horrible ideas on me. I was constantly belittled for being too fat (I was a little overweight, but compared to some of my anorexic and/or volleyball star cousins I was def not 'skinny'), being too smart, not being girly enough. There were several years were most of my presents from family members for Christmas or birthdays were full makeup kits, manicure kits, frilly clothes and dresses, and the worst of all ear piercings that I really wish I had never gotten.
Mothers are not the sole influence on little girls, its everyone in the family and all the peopel they meet. To place the blame on just one person is highly unfair (and to put it on Mom because she's the stereotypical one who takes care of the child is a lil sexist :) )
I was fortunate to have a wonderful (and flawed) mother. She did her best with me while also dealing with her own family baggage.
Now, as a mother myself, I see things with a different perspective. I have a friend who does things I think are not the best of parenting (though not abusive). She struggles with her daughter and just doesn't understand her. She is not doing the patriarchy-shoving, but I know her daughter is already starting to resent her. But when we talk, she tells me of the agony she is in, because she just can't seem to get it right. She knows she is making mistakes, but doesn't know how to make it work. She reads parenting books, but her own personality and history make it hard for her to do things the way they proscribe.
So I often imagine talking to her daughter when she is 16, listening as she complains about her mother, and trying to explain how hard her mother has tried, how her mother has always felt like a failure with her, how much she loves her although it doesn't seem like it. I know I will probably never get to have this talk with her, and I have no idea what things my own daughter will grow up resenting.
I feel sad about the relationships so many women have with their daughters. I hate to blame moms, and I also understand the pain the daughters feel.
Does it count that my mom is oblivious to transphobia and the dangers transsexual people face in America and has pressured me for years to look less like the ciswoman I am and more like a transman?
This is intriguing. Did she want a boy instead of a girl?
Well, she knew any genetic daughter of hers would likely inherit the beard and moustache growing from her face and still chose to have me before she found out about amniocentesis. Then when I was old enough to make these decisions for myself she got on my case to have short hair, wear clothes that hide my waistline, diet and exercise to narrow my hips (even after I explained to her that my body tends to burns fat off my breasts first whenever it burns fat, she said "I wouldn't care, falsies are available"), switch to drabber and duller shades of lipstick, and stop taking the medicine that treats my poly-cystic ovarian syndrome even though symptoms of PCOS include more body hair growth and stunted breast growth. Oh, and she'd like me to marry a straight man too. o_O
Oops, I forgot to add one more thing: half the time she uses a pronoun for me in English it's "he," "him," or "his." She'ws one of those people who thinks the social sciences and humanities are automatically more frivolous than the hard sciences. When I tell her facts like "even though your native language doesn't have separate pronouns for separate genders, English does" and "when you use the same pronouns for me that English-speaking bullies do then people will assume you mean what they do instead of knowing you meant something else" and "transsexuals get targeted for more discrimination than non-transsexuals do in America" it's in one ear and out the other probably since it's not from a laboratory.
My mom used to encourage my sister and me to marry a rich guy. Never anything about a career just to get married. Luckily I didn't take that advice but sadly my sister did.
For show-choir, one of our dresses didn't flatter our bodies, so I looked almost boobless. My mother decided it would be a good idea to cheer me up by saying "If you want to get breast augmentation surgery, I'm ok with it."
I think most of us that were born before 1973 understand this. Most of our Mothers thought they were bucking the system in the 60's but they couldn't quite shake those stereotypes. I still remember those quaint lines she used to parrot from her own childhood.."Ears held high..heel to toe..a woman should always look her best.."
Another liberal feminist daughter of a highly conservative, religious, traditional anti-fem mother here... and yeah, I do think that being raised in the traditional idea encourages us to break free, because we see just how bad it can get for women.
In my case, mine wasn't so focused on appearance but on obedience and EXTREME modesty. Spaghetti straps were 100% banned in my house growing up, and bikinis were for sluts only. My sisters and I (4 girls and one boy in the fam) were all required to get straight A's in school and have perfect disciplinary records, but the only thing we were ever encouraged to be when we grew up was stay-at-home moms. My mom didn't even stay home - she's a nurse! But, that was the goal for us, to take our perfect academic records and use them to raise children. In her mind, a woman only gets an education so that she can provide sparkling conversation on her husband's arm at dinner parties - this is actually a direct quote from her.
Oddly enough, the modesty requirements seemed to hinge much more on whether or not we were thin or overweight. I was an overweight child but leveled off after college, and once I was "skinny" the modesty thing became ten times the issue it was when I was overweight. All of the sudden the only time she ever spoke to me was to tell me to cover up more, and that even though I was proud of my body I shouldn't "advertise my wares." I don't know if it was jealousy (she's always been very overweight) or the old anti-feminist idea that women shouldn't look too pretty or else they'll get attacked, but it just struck me as strange to have more modesty requirements for thin girls as for overweight ones.