This semester I had several female volleyball players in one of the classes I teach. They were all very tall, physically powerful, intelligent, well-read, and confident. But you never would have guessed by the way they carried themselves - in the hunched over semi-apologetic manner that tall women are supposed to have in our culture. As if being a tall woman is an offense to all the men you encounter who are shorter than you, so you have to hunch your shoulders down, duck your head, and keep your elbows close to your sides so as to not harm any male egos. This attitude is not new to me, being tall myself, but it irritates me that tall women are still made to feel this way. Obviously they've internalized the cultural message that it's inappropriate for women to take up so much physical space and be imposing in any way.
A few years ago I researched this topic and read a number of studies on gendered use of personal space for a paper I was writing. It's an interesting topic. Generally speaking, the use of personal space matches a person's social status. So when two people interact, the one with higher status is more likely to invade the personal space of the other. Of course, this follows gender lines, and men use more space than women and are more likely to invade the personal space of a woman. One study used hidden cameras in train and bus stations in Europe to show that when women are sitting on a bench they keep their arms folded, elbows tightly at their sides, knees together, etc in order to minimize the space they need, while men sprawl out on the bench, spread their arms on the back of the bench, extend their legs out, even if their knees end up invading the space of a woman sitting next to them, etc. I can't tell you how many times I've experienced this on an airplane, where the man next to me thought it was pre-ordained that the arm rest and half of the floor space in front of my seat belonged to him. A similar study looked at men and women walking in public spaces. When the path of a man and woman are going to cross, it's always the woman who's expected to alter her path to avoid a collision. In addition, women restrict their stride as compared to men, and tend to hunch their shoulders and not initiate or maintain eye contact.
So after I did this research my friends and I started messing around with this. We found that if you don't alter your path when walking toward a man, a lot of men will almost run right into you, or bump their shoulder against yours, and then turn and give you this weird look. The weird looks you get are increased if you stand up straight with squared shoulders and take longer strides. I habitually walk this way now, and I continue to get puzzled looks by men who turn around after I pass them and watch me with an uncertain look. Part of it is because I'm fairly tall and refuse to hunch over or refrain from wearing boots with a heel (which make me 6'1") if I feel like it. But also, if it's not easy or the most natural for me to alter my path, I don't. Oftentimes the man will have more space on his side of the sidewalk and I would have to step off onto the grass, or pause and wait for him to pass me first. I refuse. This really does bring strange reactions from men, but I don't think they quite understand what seems so strange to them. Hence the puzzled looks. I also insist on owning my space in bars and restaurants where women are expected to yield their space, and I don't shrink from eye contact or look away first. The strange thing is, once men get over the puzzled reaction, the usual response is fascination (except for the really insecure ones who feel threatened). But I see this as more than a fun social experiment (and now a habitual way of carrying myself). I think it's subversive for women to abandon the sexist expectations to which they've been socialized to conform. By challenging these profound but unspoken signs of dominance and hierarchy, you can defy sexist attitudes every day without even being aware of it anymore. And that kind of kicks ass, in my view. So my challenge to feminists is to own your space. Become aware of how you sit/stand/walk/make eye contact, and stake your claim. A few weird looks from men isn't going to hurt you, and it's amazing how moving through the world in a confident manner changes your own self-conception over time.
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Yeah I noticed this too! Especially on trains, when guys sit all sprawled out and with their arms over the seats and whatnot. Sometimes I'll sit that way too; it's so comfortable. Sometimes I really like sitting all hunched up in a corner seat though; especially when I'm in a pensive, private mood and don't feel like being so conspicuous. But sometimes I just wanna stretch out maaaan! For realz. And I do. I get some funny looks sometimes. Not negative necessarily; more like interested and/or confused. lol But I noticed I get some weird looks when I walk with a little more jauntiness in my step, or make wider steps. It feels weird too sometimes, like I'm doing something unnatural or wrong. That's why I love feminism though! It makes me aware of WHY I feel these kinds of things when I do. It's nice to know I'm not doing anything wrong when I make those really big dinosaur steps. =D
Scholar Sandra Bartky has written an interesting paper on this subject called “Foucault, Femininity, and the Modernization of Patriarchal Power” (I think I got that right). And she writes specifically about public transportation (from what I remember-- lol, this was a year ago), and how women never occupy more space than is absolutely necessary.
A few excerpts from a paper that I wrote on Bartky:
Sandra Bartky and her essay “Foucault, Femininity, and the Modernization of Patriarchal Power” go so far as to reinforce a few of Foucault’s ideas. The Panopticon is means of controlling the behavior by controlling the mind by controlling the body. Bartky draws special attention to the ways in which women’s bodies are controlled, which leads to a mental internalization of certain cultural norms, which itself in turn leads to a certain method of behavior. In Bartky’s essay, this behavior deals with a woman’s treatment of her own body in regards to the standards that she feels she must live up to.
Both situations, Foucault’s Panopticon and Bartky’s twentieth-century woman, are governed by forces unseen: “The disciplinary power that inscribes femininity in the female body is everywhere and it is nowhere; the disciplinarian is everyone and yet no one in particular” (Bartky 103). To Foucault, this is the point: that man should curb himself and his behaviors because of this omnipresence. In Bartky’s case, it simply makes self-determination all the more difficult; we confuse voluntary with enforced discipline.
Another little excerpt, this time straight from Bartky:
There are significant differences in gesture, posture, movement, and general bodily comportment: women are far more restricted than men in their manner of movement and in their spatiality. In her classic paper on the subject, Iris Young observes that a space seems to surround women in imagination that they are hesitant to move beyond: this manifests itself both in a reluctance to reach, stretch, and extend the body to meet resistances of matter in motion --as in sport or in the performance of physical tasks-- and in a typically constricted posture and general style of movement. Woman's space is not a field in which her bodily intentionality can be freely realized but an enclosure in which she feels herself positioned and by which she is confined. The "loose woman" violates these norms: her looseness is manifest not only in her morals, but in her manner of speech and quite literally in the free and easy way she moves.
In an extraodinary series of two thousand photographs, many (p. 67) candid shots taken in the street, the German photographer Marianne Wex has documented differences in typical masculine and feminine body posture. Women sit waiting for trains with arms close to the body, hands folded together in their laps, toes pointing straight ahead or turned inward, and legs pressed together. The women in these photographs make themselves small and narrow, harmless; they seem tense; they take up little space. Men, on the other hand, expand into the available space; they sit with legs far apart and arms flung out at some distance from the body....
via, http://employees.oneonta.edu/farberas/ARTH/ARTH200/gender.html
As an Asian living in Sydney, I have noticed that white men take up the most space. At 6'1", I am not short, but I have noticed that girth also plays a role, as my private space has been taken up by people, who , although shorter than me, are wider than me.
White men usually take up the most space, then it's a toss up between white women and other male minorities. As an Asian, I have noted that generally, some Asian males have the same or smaller girth than white women, and thus take up less space, unless the man is significantly taller than them. I have been forced to the side of the trains on a three-seater seat by both women and men, most of those larger than me. Whether this is due to race or size or perceived power...
I love this topic and think about it often! On the NYC subways, men (usu. white men) take up WAY MORE space than they need. It pisses me off! I definitely think it is about social status and ENTITLEMENT. Entitlement to space at the expense of others.
My proposed rule for the subway is this: you can open your legs as wide as your shoulders-- that's it. You can't open them twice your shoulder width, forcing me to cross my legs. That is just rude!
I am short and petite, but I have athletic shoulders, and I think men are a little taken aback when I jut my legs out to my own shoulder width and push theirs out of the way! Not so common to see a woman with spread legs on the subway! I love the reaction it gets!
Thanks for the post, I will experiment with the sidewalk strut you proposed!
Yeah, I agree with the thing on the subway...in NZ we don't have any sort of subway/underground/metro/whatever and I live close to the city so I bus anyway, but I do notice that at bus stops mean tend to spread their legs waaay apart and loll all over the seat, pushing me or anyone else to the edge. As for the walking thing, I just exceed average height (in NZ, anyway); I'm 5'6 and wear heels often. For a while I did always slouch when I walked, not coz I was intimidated or because of my gender, just coz I was lazy! So I can't relate to that or the whole stepping aside thing; I just do that out of courtesy.
Right, but women are taught to "be courteous" even when it would be more convenient for the man to alter his path. It's crazy, if you start watching people in public places, the women almost always move, even if it means stepping off the sidewalk, pausing in a hallway for men to pass when there's a drinking fountain or other obstacle, etc. It's never, ever the men who stop or change their path. And nobody ever notices. It's crazy how internalized but completely implicit it is.
At my university we had a term for the spreading out of the legs while sitting on the bus: Swollen ballitis. I think it accurately captures the gendered and egoed nature of the posture :P
I had an interesting discussion on this topic in a sociology class when my professor asked the men in the class if it was true they they sat one, two, three seats apart from their male friends at the movie theater if there was the room. They all said of course. It's a sign of respect to give a man his space. But if any of those men are on a date, you can bet there's next to no room between him and the woman (assuming heterosexuality), AND that his arm is around the back of her seat, too.
Sex and sexuality are definitely a factor in both of those scenarios (being close to someone you're attracted to and not wanting to be seen as gay), but the basic space issue is definitely at play.
My male friends and I have always sat in adjacent seats at the movies. That way, we can whisper to each other during the film.
Am I going to the special hell?
I'm sure it's not a universal thing, but there are some guys who feel the need to have their personal space in those little movie theater seats.
haha yes! you are!
:p
There are guys who do that?
After reading this post I just noticed how when O'Reilly was on The View, the four women had their legs crossed with their hands in their lap and he seems to take up the room of two women.
My friends and I always called it the I'm-not-gay seat...
Hmm, guess I'll have to work on my walk, then. =)Although, to be fair, I do love walking with long quick strides (almost like a power-walk), I usually leave my legs where they are when sitting on the bus, even if my knees end up pressed against his, and I definitely know the weird looks. Can't wait to experiment with crossing paths, though!
As a tall girl, I totally associate with this post. I grew up slouching because I didn't want to stand out. I never really considered it as something that was gendered, but talking to some tall guys I know recently, although they tend to do the same thing, it's only when they're reminded that they're so tall.
As for walking: I used to live in a student ghetto that was (and still, unfortunately is) famous for female students getting harassed, raped and sometimes killed. During that time I started walking in an aggressive manner - and while many other girls I knew had to endure cat calls and crap like that, I almost never encountered trouble.
And in subways: Yes, I think sitting spread-eagle on a busy subway is gendered. I think it's an asshole thing to do: rude and annoying. (Busy subway is one of those places that everyone should just be effing polite).
The stupidest excuse, though: one time I complained about guys doing this on the bus/subway to male friends. And they started going off about how they can't cross their legs, or even close them: their cock and balls are in the way. It's "uncomfortable". But, dear boys, men: I don't care how big you think your junk is. It's not so big that you need your knees two feet apart and in my space. It really just makes me fantasize about planting my foot very sharply right in between.
I know!!!
What's the point of going out with your mates if you can't bag the funny parts on the screens or how it's totally unrealistic.
I can understand different groups of people preferring to seat a seat apart, but not for the same group of people unless they were trying to be rude and anti-social.
Just goes to show you...men are not a monolith either. A group of men in a classroom does not convey the attitude of the entire male species, just the attitude of that group of men.
This was supposed to be a reply to Doug. S's reply to Jessie. Apologies for the mistake.
Yeah, I agree with you that not all guys do that but I thought it was an interesting phenomenon, however often it occurs.
Side note: I appreciate the "men are not a monolith" comment, because you're right, I think as much as we look at the diversity of woman's experience in feminism, we should be doing the same for men. Sorry if I implied any essential male characteristic.
I'm not that tall -not to Dutch standards that is. But I slouch.
When I commute Leiden-The Hague, I find myself in this situation too. But I often consciously decide to "own my space".
Thanks for giving me a name for this thing!
Funny thing: I grew up in Canada, feeling like an absolute giant, because I was taller than everyone. Then I went to the Netherlands and I was suddenly average height.
This is such a good topic for discussion, I can completely relate to the idea of owning your space, especially when walking on the street. People (not just men) react to me completely differently depending on whether I'm slouching or striding along (although maybe its also because I'm more likely to walk confidently when I'm in a good mood so I look more friendly as well).
Someone here said that women internalise the idea that they need to be polite to men...I'd also think that women are taught that they need to fear public spaces, especially at night. So maybe a large chunk of this subservient posture is down to the internalised sense that we shouldn't be out in public spaces on our own in case something happens (how many times have rape/assault victims been blamed for being out on their own at night?). A lot of girls are taught to hurry on home, heads lowered, trying not to attract negative attention. So women don't just need to own our space, we need to own our streets as well!
I try to walk this way, confidently and striding, all the time. I walk with my head up, with the clear intent of dominating my enviroment. It's a bit frightening, I confess, specially because I'm a fairly small woman (I'm 5'5") and very slender, so I don't have a naturally imposing figure.
I've been called arrogant because of this. I've been also accused of "having a dick" and "being manlier than half of the man someone knows". I have mixed feelings about this. It kinds of feel like a compliment sometimes. I mean, if I'm pissing off the misogynistic bunch, so I must be doing something right. But I also can feel how much they hate me. I'm a videogame designer, so I work in an enviroment where the overwhelming majority of co-workers consists of males, and sometimes this makes me a little paranoid, always expecting a stab in the back and ready to defend myself. And this makes me feel even more the necessity of owning my space, of showing that, yes, I'm the arrogant, unfeminine, agressive person that won't take a joke, so you better don't mess with me.
In conclusion, I really loved this post. I'm sending the link to all my female friends. Perceiving that you are entitled to your own space is one of the first barriers to be broken in the way of liberating yourself from all of those pesky gender roles.
Very cool.
So, thinking about myself in these situations, I find myself in an odd place.
I actually find myself hunching more when I am with my female friends than when I am on my own. I wouldn't say I am tall (I'm 5'8), but most of my friends are under 5'5, and I always wear flat shoes (especially if I am with my female friends). I have a few ideas about why I do this - I think the biggest reason is because I am self-conscious of my height, my breast size (DD), and that I feel like a big oaf next to my pretty, petite friends, who make comments about my chest and wardrobe choices (since I am not what one would consider "girly").
Conversely, on my own, I am much more confident & don't find myself hunching. I don't waver my path, and I thought the bizarre stares were just because it's me and whatever, not because I'm a women claiming my space - that makes it so much better! I also have always stretched my legs out in class, movies, restaurants, church (when I used to go in high school), etc...and given lots of of odd looks. I was even told once that "Ladies don't stretch their legs out."
Thank you for this post! I will now make a much more conscience effort to claim my space, in whatever situation I am in.
I can relate to your situation. I had a very pretty and VERY petite roommate in college and I always felt like a giant next to her, even bigger tan I actually was. When someone small gets all of the attention, it's hard not to want to shrink yourself down too.
I'm glad you're not afraid to claim your space. It really comes down to believing you are worthy of the room you take up, which we all are.
Thinking about this was a great example to me of a way that it's easy to not even notice patriarchy at work as a man. I encounter the same thing, but it's typically a "challenging" type of thing. Basically let's play chicken as we're walking down the street. I usually just think that he's an asshole, and just assume that men are more likely to be assholes than women.
I think this is mostly about confidence. Models walk perfectly straight and own their space. The stereotypical hot girl will be totally back straight and in control. Confidence is always attractive, and the way people carry themselves should be an indicator of that.
I've got to say, most of the women who've commented so far are actually quite tall by my standard. In America, the average height is 5'4 or slightly shorter. Of course, as I'm 5'0 (and 18 so not going to get any taller) even 5'4 seems tall to me! I don't think I could take up much space even if I tried, but I must admit that sitting with my legs spread apart (the way many of the teenage boys I know do) is something I don't generally attempt. I don't have much of a choice about being the one to alter my path as I have been literally walked into a few times. It's a bit of a dilemma. How should a smaller woman go about "owning her space?"
Let them walk into you and then, instead of apologizing as women are socialized to do, give them a weird wtf? look. When these kinds of collisions occur the man usually assumes it was the woman's fault, and gives her the weird look, but by immediately reacting in that way you can probably shift the attention to him.
On a relate topic, women are socialized to smile way more and to apologize for things that aren't their fault - like these kinds of collisions. Maybe we should start a new thread on that topic. I haven't read much of the research though...
Call them out on it, Ice :)
I get walked into all the time because I don't bother to pay attention that much and so don't get out of the way. Since it's unexpected various expletives come out of my mouth, eliciting worried looks and usually an apology. And if they don't apologise, I comment very loudly on how rude people are :)
It makes people very uncomfortable and I find it extremely entertaining.
I love this post! I have major issues with this, but it usually goes like this: I don't swerve or stop to wait for people. Then I feel guilty b/c I didn't. But it's really not in my nature (and I am female.) The playing-chicken moments seem to occur with other women, though. I'll have to take more notice of what happens when I meet a man in a hallway or sidewalk.
I work with a small group of very snooty women. When I first started there, one of the complaints they made in front of me was that I walked too fast through the office. Not that I was colliding with anyone. They would say this while I was walking and they were seated. I just always thought it was a purposeful stride. To me, walking is usually about getting from Point A to Point B to accomplish a goal.
This is something I have been thinking about a lot lately. I'm not VERY tall, but I am 5'8" so I'm above average. I've always walked with long fast strides and very purposefully.. I'm not sure why, but it's always been my thing. I've found it to always make me feel a lot more confident and in charge. It's a good way, I think, to ensure that I don't get bogged down in all the oppression I see around me, not to mention that exercise feels good!
Anyway, the problem I've been having is eye contact. I've always avoided eye contact with other walkers so as to ensure that nobody thinks I want them to hit on me or talk to me, or that I'm checking them out, etc. BUT I've found that if I don't make eye contact, I tend to get people checking ME out more, probably because I'm walking very fast and purposefully so it draws interest and attention. Usually if I force myself to make eye contact, they'll look away quite quickly. But SOMETIMES they hold it and then seem to check me out in some sort of "We've connected, let me make it obvious that I'm sexually attracted to you" kinda weird stranger pick-up routine. It's really bizarre and COMPLETELY unwanted by me so I'm always conflicted as to whether or not to make eye contact and if so, how long for or in what manner so that it's obvious that I don't want them to oggle me?
That's my confusion! I walk a lot, by the way, so this is a question I ask myself LITERALLY every day!
Yeah, in some of the research on this they discovered that when men maintain eye contact for too long or invade personal space it's interpreted as aggressive, but when women do it's almost always interpreted as a sexual advance. But I still refuse to shrink away from eye contact, unless I'm just trying to straight-up ignore someone, and I usually refuse to be the one who looks away first, since that's the way women are socialized and it's a definite sign of submission. This is especially problematic at the bar, where men always interpret eye contact as a come-on, but I just ignore them or make it clear with other body language that I'm not into them when this happens.
I think you're right, but at the same time I don't like the effort involved. It's like: "Why am I spending this much time for some random guy I don't know?" Though at the same time I do like people-watching anyway, so I might as well undertake it while walking past them. It's just difficult to make it clear that I'm not looking at them because they're just SO goodlooking that I can't resist.. I want them to know that I'm staring at them because they're staring at me, not because I want them to check me out or give me sleazy "come hither" looks... yuck! Guess the only way to communicate that would be by talking to them or giving them the finger, which probably wouldn't go down so well in the suburb I work in...
omg I have the same problem!!!! Thank you lol it's good to know I'm not the only one with those thoughts. I feel a lot less crazy now. My solution is to just avoid eye contact. Most people aren't worth it, you know? I'll look if I really want to or need to. I try not to look at it as if it's a contest where I have to prove my dominance. I mean really, if I had to do that with every man on the street, I would be blind by now lol. I figure people will stare whether I'm walking purposefully or just loitering, so either way it's not my fault if I get looked at. All I really want is the right to own my space, without having to worry who's looking and whether I should look back or not.
The problem with this approach is that to me it rings of encouraging the male gaze. The woman is some aloof figure which just goes about through the male world while the men observe and judge her worthiness via judging her body.
A friend of mine made a really good point. We were living in Chile at the time, where 'checking out' and catcalling go hand in hand. My friend and I both noticed that when we made eye contact, the perpetrators were less likely to say or do anything inappropriate. That's not to say that it stopped altogether, but it lessened by an extreme amount (for exmaple going from 20 catcalls on the way to University to just 3). We were discussing why this might be, and my extremely smart friend pointed out that when you make eye contact with someone, it humanises you. You're no longer just an object, and they don't have to work to rouse you or get a reaction from you. If you make eye contact, they're forced to accept that you are a thinking human being and not just a manniquin, if you get what I mean.
That's why I've been trying to force myself to make and hold eye contact lately... I don't want to keep being seen as an object.
I've noticed this too, and it's interesting the see the research back it up. I am definitely willing to push back on the subway or a bus if I have a bag or something that can serve as a buffer. But if it's just me, I really don't want to touch the person.
I wonder if part of the reason why women take up less space is the fact that we feel like we have more to lose by coming into unwanted contact. Because lots of men already feel like a woman's body is public property for them to touch, if a man accidentally brushes against a woman, it's not as uncomfortable for him as vice versa.
Just something to consider:
They might have that posture because of back problems. I'm supposed to be 6'. I love my height. LOVE IT. Ideally I'd be 6'2. However, I hunch because I have horrible scoliosis that actually makes me shorter because of spine compression.
Though I do know height is an issue for a lot of tall women/men interacting with tall women.
Oh, and seating generally isn't made for tall folks. Remember those blue plastic chairs from public school? I blame those somewhat for my HORRIBLE posture as well.
This was interesting to me. I'm a 5'2" Eurasian lady with a Napoleon complex. I've never understood WHY tall women feel like they need to hide. It's not like they achieve anything by slouching. It makes you all look like you have back problems, not short. And when we little women stare at you, it's awe, admiration, not shock and horror. Just for clarification.
Great post. I'm a tall woman, who slouches around most people, but I never thought of it before in terms of gender before. Thankfully, I have a pretty good walk, probably due to the years I spent as a child literally running to keep up with the long strides of my dad.
Goanna's point about how eye contact can decrease catcalling brought up a question for me. What about after cat calling has occurred? This happened to me the other day, I looked at them, but didn't give them any other reaction. Ideally I would have flipped them off or something. But is eye contact after being catcalled better than just ignoring it? I'm not sure.
THIS IS SUCH A GOOD POST!!! I know I'm totally late finding it... but seriously! Thanks for writing this. I'm so excited to go out and try that. As much to see other people's reactions as my own. I think a big part of how I carry myself has been developed around those constructs so I'm interested to start breaking it down in my everyday life. THANKS!