I am a 19 year old going to college in the states. I'm member of my university's philosophy club and have been for a year and a half now. Our meetings work like this: each member submits a question into a hat. The questions are pulled at random and then the club discusses it. Every question is read. Examples include "What is the meaning of life?" and "Is violence every justified?" etc.
I participate actively in the club and have ever since I joined. But about three weeks ago, I was reminded that no matter what I have to say in the philosophic realm, I am still a woman a talking vagina with a set of boobs. A freshman (coincidence?) submitted for his question, "On a scale of 1-10, how hot would Annabelle look in a toga?"
Because every now and then I need to be dehumanized, invalidated, and reduced to an object in an academic setting. I have never felt so embarrassed and stupid. To make matters worse- people started discussing the question. Follow up questions like "What kind of toga?" and "Would she be wearing a bra?" were asked. These are all people with whom I talk about Aristotle and Socrates, and not one of them acknowledged the inappropriateness (to put it lightly) of the question.
Before you go to comment "Get over it!" or "You should be flattered!" or anything along those lines...
NO.
I was humiliated in an academic forum . For christ's sake, this is an environment where I share my opinions on everything from morality to women's rights, and at least one person is just picturing me in different outfits while I speak. What was probably meant to be a flirtatious comment has had me incredibly upset and embarrassed for the last three weeks.
I am an intelligent woman. I am so fucking smart, and I get this horrible, sickening feeling that I will never be taken seriously because I have blonde hair and breasts. I am brighter than more than half the men I know, but hey, if you ever start to feel intimidated by that, you can just reduce me to a fucking object. I don't know, maybe get a cardboard cutout of me and take a picture of yourself grabbing "my" tit. That'll make you feel a little more secure.
This is just ridiculous. In the talks I've had with older women during my time at the university, I haven't recieved much assurance that this sort of thing goes away when you start working with "mature" adults.
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I'd take the names of all the guys who seriously discussed it and submit the question "On a scale of 1-10 how would (insert guys' names here) each look in a g-string? Sock-stuffing not allowed."
Heh, was going to suggest the exact same thing.
I think I might add the followup question, "Do you think he would feel humiliated by being subjected to such a frank and public appraisal?" Just because it sounds like some of them are dense enough to not get it the first time.
Hmmmm. Dense.... Maybe you should stuff the question box with the question "How stupid and insensitive is (insert name of discusser) for asking such a humiliating question? How often do you think he gets laid? How about AFTER word of this little gaffe gets out among the female population?"
Before you go to comment "Get over it!" or "You should be flattered!" or anything along those lines...
NO.
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NO WAY would I have said anything like that to you , Annabelle: I wouldn't say "Get over it"...
It's the same if they had asked "What do you think Jennifer's new boob looks like?"
That is AWFUL that they could do that. What a bunch of assholes.
Seriously, to denigrate and bring you down and treat you like that.
You should submit the question "Do you think {guys names that did that} are virgins? Do they live in their mother's basement?"
Gawd, what a bunch of punks!!!
This is just ridiculous. In the talks I've had with older women during my time at the university, I haven't recieved much assurance that this sort of thing goes away when you start working with "mature" adults.
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Seriously, it DOESN'T!!
On a political forum board I go to, some older guy posted "McCain/MILF" (for Palin)
I don't like Sarah Palin AT ALL, but to see that just pissed me off.
As if an attractive woman is nothing but an object to be mocked and used as a butt of a sexist joke.
I'm actually quite surprised by this. At my university, the typical philosophy major was vastly more intelligent than the average person and the ones who would be interested in participating in a philosophy club were the sort who would not have been amused by a question like that, and would have considered it an idiotic waste of time. Which it obviously is. The fact that they would even take it up even jokingly, particularly in your presence makes me think that the IQ of that group is pretty far below where you want it to be for interesting discussion.
This isn't exactly related, but I'm hoping that your philosopher and question examples were picked to be stereotypical of what the average person thinks "philosophy" is about. Those questions would be shot down pretty fast in any contemporary discussion among even well informed philosophy majors. Sounds like you might want to find a more intelligent group.
This isn't exactly related, but I'm hoping that your philosopher and question examples were picked to be stereotypical of what the average person thinks "philosophy" is about.
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Yes, exactly. I was just trying to give people the idea that the club is taken seriously and always sticks to serious questions, so that readers could understand just how inappropriate and out of place the question was.
Most of the club members, however, are not philo majors, just kids looking for some intelligent discussion. The person who submitted the question was a new member, so he might have thought his question would be considered funny. What bothered me, however, is that the age old members, who ARE philo majors (minus maybe 3 of them who did not laugh or reply to the question) responded in what I feel was an equally inappropriate manner. It was mostly the newer kids throwing around follow-up questions.
I should mention: The president of the club who draws and reads the question tried to throw it out without anyone (including me) seeing it, but it was snatched by another member and read aloud.
80/20 that the kid doing the snatching was the author.
Wow, isn't there a club president or someone you can talk to? Or put in a question about the objectification of women? They need to hear that they are wrong to do that somehow...
That's really really pathetic. You need/deserve a better group, but yes that shit is everywhere. A friend of mine has a masters in some kind of advanced science I can't even name, and won every academic award in college, yet in scholarly settings is mostly regarded because she's blond and beautiful.
Before you go to comment "Get over it!" or "You should be flattered!" or anything along those lines...
No, no one has any right to say that to you.
Just...wow. Is there any kind of recourse you can take w/ this? This is horrible and beyond wrong. Just b/c this shit is everywhere doesn't mean it is right or that you have to take it.
*hugs*
"How hot would Annabelle look in a toga?"
Because that's hardcore philosophy right there. Nietzsche often spent days contemplating this difficult and polarizing issue. Really, it's on the books.
But seriously. Totally inappropriate, totally unprofessional, totally uncalled for. Most girls would have just laughed that off, but the fact that you are still furious about this gives me a lot of hope.
When I was younger I used to laugh about this type of stuff. And not the "it's funny" type of laugh---but the OMG "I'm being totally humiliated what the fuck do I do, now" kinda laugh.
Not everybody is ready for this kind of shit when it happens... The worst and the beginning was when I was 16 and my history teacher used me as example to explain 1920's slang to the class...he made referenced to my legs (gams) and called me a sheba (which supposedly was a term for a black women)in front of the 99% white class. Everybody busted up laughing and so I did too. It was ridiculous. Of course this was in 1986 before PC...but damn.
Unfortunately it took me years of more harassment to finally understand what this shit was about. Feminism was the only place where this type of crap was being critically analyzed. It was literally a "hot damn!" moment once I found feminism and started sharing stories with other women...
My first day of my first ever Women's Studies class in university, our prof asked us to name a female philosopher. I put on Ayn Rand's name (disclaimer: I don't agree with a lot of her views), and that was the only one we, as a class, could come up with. Philosophy seems to be very much a boys' club. Rarely are female philosophers studied. There aren't any female philosophy professors at my university, either (and I don't think my school is alone in this regard).
When a disclipline seems to disregard women's views as much as philosophy does, I really can't say that I'm surprised that some philosophy students can be so sexist. Perhaps asking why there are so few women philosophers, or something to that effect, would be a better question than "How does X look in a g-string?" or "Is Y a virgin?" While satisfying, it's still getting down to their level, and, arguably, also sexist.
There are a number of great female philosophers, but of course they're generally not covered in your average intro class. And the field is historically male-dominated, but that is slowly changing.
And just for the record, Simone de Beauvoir was in the same graduating class with Sartre, and scored highest on the exam, but he had such a fragile ego and threw such a hissy fit that she stepped aside and allowed him to be ranked at the top of their class. According to their contemporaries, many of his "big ideas" actually cam from her, but he ended up publishing on them and getting famous. Charming, ain't it?
I've taken 3 philosophy classes- intro, philosophy of religion, and social and political philosophy. Zero women philosophers were covered. I was considering minoring in philosophy (my major is political science) but decided against it, in part because I was sick of studying the same old texts, written by the same old people. I was getting the impression that, if a philosopher wasn't at least 100 years in the grave, and male, his works weren't important enough to be studied. Some exceptions, of course, but we didn't cover any in the classes I took.
Simone de Beauvoir was mentioned when I took philosophy in high school, as was Ayn Rand. (I couldn't remember de Beauvoir's name at the time we were asked to name women philosophers.) Very, very briefly mentioned, though. Then again, it was in a Catholic high school, and the teacher would draw smiley faces on the board beside the names of philosophers that he/the RCC agreed with. No surprise that they'd gloss over existentialism and egoism.
The field is slowly changing, but, alas, not fast enough for my liking. Then again, I find there's waaaaay too much emphasis placed on same old thinkers. There is a lot more to philosophy than Aristotle, Descartes, Aquinas, Locke, and so on. Not nearly enough contemporary thinkers.
I'm surprised Judith Jarvis Thompson wasn't mentioned in at least one of those classes.
And as far as the emphasis on historical philosophy, this varies a lot from program to program from what I can tell. Most of my upper level classes at Iowa were interested in contemporary analytic philosophy of language or philosophy of mind or analytic ethics. There was one required course on "ancient philosophy" that was mostly a joke and no one took seriously. Another friend who went to Duke said that the emphasis was almost completely on ancient philosophy and very little mind was paid to the modern analytic field. Of course, you have to have a decent basis in 17th and 18th century philosophy before you can even start talking about anything modern, so there's always a need to start with Descartes, and Locke through Hume.
And the emphasis on analytic philosophy is very typical in most universities. It's mostly just small liberal arts colleges that focus on the history of philosophy.
Martha Nussbaum is very prolific so it's surprising that she wasn't mentioned as well.
I agree with Jenna. Asking a retaliatory question to shame the person who hurt your feelings might be counterproductive (however satisfying).
Instead, you should ask a consciousness-raising philosophical question, like "Why is it important to have diversity in any academic system, be it diversity of gender, race, class, ideology, etc.? and what are the best ways to invite such diversity?" or "What are the purposes of communities, and how are their boundaries defined (and how *ought* they to be defined)?"
I was going to suggest that you talk to the club - as a group - about how the question being asked and answered made you feel. But I understand that once you've been objectified, it will be difficult for many of the group members that participated in your humiliation to take you seriously. I think a more severe level of recourse may be in order. Do you have the option of filing some kind of sexual harassment complaint with your school's judicial services committee?
If it's any comfort, men in philosophy are notoriously socially inept. Intelligent but utterly clueless. Just look around the room next time at the way they're probably all dressed ...yeah. This doesn't justify their behavior, of course, and it's still totally inappropriate, but it does maybe put it in a little perspective. So, educate them. Stand up for yourself. Most people who are in philosophy love a good debate with a strong opponent. If you demand that they defend the question/comment and demonstrate that it's not inappropriate, you might start a great discussion on feminism that they badly need to hear.
This is bullshit. Total fucking bullshit. Complain to everyone who will listen- this is outrageous. I'm behind you all the way girl!
That sounds horrible. I think you need to approach the jerk directly and tell him how that makes you feel and ask him if he would like to be objectified. If he doesn't apologize, threaten to press sexual harassment charges against him.
If there's not a president or student activities board you can go to, maybe bring up a question to point out their sexist asshattery?
Like, why are women reduced to bodies?
A couple of days late, but you might like the blog Feminist Philosophers if you don't read it already.
http://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/
Good luck with it all!
This just makes me sick to my stomach. And then people wonder why we protest the images of sexualized women.. EVERYWHERE. Commercials, TV, ads, films, internet, magazines, posters. Everywhere. Because some of the men who are bombarded by these images must internalize this thought that it is perfectly normal and socially acceptable to look at and judge a woman only by her sexual desirability (and essentially turn her into an object), as opposed to her intelligence, spirituality, kindness, well-rounded personality, talents, etc. It's uncivilized. It's depressing. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Jesus Christ. I am losing so much hope in humanity. Especially because I've even had a very progressive, awesome man admit to me that the first thing he thinks when he meets a girl is that he wants to have sex with her, and another one who admitted he wants to marry a "hot", young, stupid woman who won't argue with him the way his female activist friends do. And they don't see a problem with that. I don't know what to do anymore, I feel like I'm going crazy. And it's totally inescapable.