So, an incident happened last night with the good 'ol fiancee. I let him open an early Christmas gift, which just so happened to be a cute nightie I got for myself. I put it on, and then after I came out in it, sitting on his lap, he asked, "Are you going to go put on makeup now?"
What?? I sat there, in shock, and started crying silent tears. Ouch. He instantly apologized, but still, remember:
We Don't Have To Take It.
Another time, we were watching a film and I said, "I like that woman's boobs." He replied, "Yours will look just like that after you get lipo."
Now, keep in mind, I do like to put on makeup before having sex (occasionally) and I do want liposuction (due to a stomach surgery I had several years ago), but still:
We Don't Have To Take It.
I'm just making this point because I feel like I read so many posts about other feminists saying things about their significant others, and it has just made me wonder if we accept the love that we think that we deserve.
Yes, no one is perfect, but really, we have to draw the line.
We Don't Have To Take It.
My Friday Feminist Fuck You goes out to all the stupid comments made by significant others regarding body image, verbal abuse, or any other demeaning thing said to someone.
FUCK YOU!
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It's intriguing that the tag line "We don't have to take it" is used in the context where your reaction, as far as I can see, is to take it.
Please advise.
Yeah. I have a pretty steadfast rule that no man who insults my body gets to touch it. It's worked out pretty well so far.
Yep, that's my rule too. I went through several boyfriends and girlfriends before I found a guy who actually respects me. It's funny how well so many people fake respect, and how easily many people cave in and allow themselves to be disrespected.
If I ever have a daughter I certainly hope she'll have that kind of self respect. Or for that matter, a son.
It's intriguing how condescending your comment is.
Please advise.
It's my nature. I should try to work on it.
To use a SavageLove-ism. You may have to DTMFA if he's being this insensitive to you. I don't know the full dynamic of your relationship, but that's pretty nasty stuff.
I agree, assuming that he really meant it the way it sounds (its possible he was just asking if you were going to put on makeup since you do sometimes, like, should he wait while you do, rather than suggesting that you should. But I assume you'd know the difference in the context, so if you think he was being a jerk he probably was. =)
That was just supposed to be an end perentheses, not a smilie face.
force of habit? =)
Understood! haha
Did you ask him to have his balls waxed yet?
How bout plucking his chest hairs?
Is he using the soap you prefer?
Is he dressing based on what you appreciate?
Does he get what an asshole thing that was to do?
Have you dumped him for someone better yet,
someone like
oh I don't know
your self.
I know it's hard to believe, but there are some guys out there who aren't like that. You DON'T have to take it. Find someone loving.
I agree with the above comments.
You don't have to take it. You don't have to take this level of immaturity. One incident can just be a mistake, a slip. Most people have to get used to feminism; our society raises everyone to scorn anything that gives woman power.
But after two, I'd start to look out. Have there been other incidents like this? If so, I suggest dumping the jerk. There are plenty of better guys out there. As weird as that may sound to you, it's true. I've realized that there is a line between not being a feminist and being anti-feminist. And I just can't date or be close in general with the later. Because they ultimately don't respect me, so I sure as hell can't respect them.
So... why are you still with this guy? You can tell him to stop making those sorts of comments or you can find the type of man who would never think to make them in the first place.
You know, I like to think I have the bestest fiance in the whole wide world. (Don't we all?) He's smart, funny, generous, thoughtful, sweet, accommodating, appropriately protective, listens to me, blah blah blah... But the first week we started dating, I was lassoed into a party at which his most recent ex-girlfriend would also be in attendance. Pretty much girlfriend nightmare. I asked him what his ex was like to try to soothe my ego in advance, and he began by saying, "Well, she's much skinnier than you."
I don't take that crap from anyone, especially not someone I had just accepted into my life and gave me great sex. I told him 1.) I'm not fat, 2.) he's an asshole, and 3.) even if I am fat, then if that kind of thing was going to be a problem, I would make it no longer my problem. He was immediately regretful and tried to explain that he meant she was skinnier in the bad way (she's an exercise anorexic; I like my candy and buttered popcorn) and he admitted he said the wrong thing. He owned up to slipping up and being a dumb-ass. A couple years later, I don't let him forget it (in the loving "I tease you" way), but he's proven time and again that he loves me deeply and never meant to say anything harmful. Plus, I'm totally bodacious. ;)
Everybody slips up and said dumb things, even those which are hurtful, once in awhile. If it's a rare occurrence and they're apologetic, then I think it's fine. If it's something that happens repeatedly... well, it's time to reassess your relationship. It was easy for me to threaten to dump my guy after we'd only been out a few days, and I imagine it would be a lot harder to draw a line in the sand like that when you're going to marry, but it sounds like you need to take a hard look at your relationship together.
Why did you buy a sexy outfit? Did you buy it because you enjoy it and you liked how you felt in it, with his enjoyment a bonus? Or was his enjoyment the sole purpose of the purchase? Do you wear makeup during sex because it makes you feel sexy or just because he prefers looking at you that way?
I can't speak for the quality of your relationship, but this glimpse you've provided worries me. Please talk to him about it and escape if you need to. He sounds emotionally abusive. Seek help if you must. Don't be afraid-- it's not weakness. Good luck.
crying silent tears and writing FUCK YOU! on feministing.com does not = Not Taking It.
You're taking it.
How is this comment remotely helpful? Sometimes people need to talk things over with people who aren't close to the situation. That doesn't mean you need to snip at them.
Yeah, this comment is pretty obnoxious.
I don't think it's appropriate to comment on this poster's relationship in such a manner. Maybe this a reminder for this poster. I don't think comments like "yeah you are taking it" are helpful or constructive. Perhaps she could reconsider this relationship, but it sounds like she is.
I have a similar problem with my boyfriend. He never says anything hurtful about my body, but he does less housework on average and doesn't recognize how much I pick up the slack. Other than that one area, he's very open-minded and feminist. But he can't help that he was raised by a mother who picked up all his socks and cleaned his room for him every week. I see this issue and yours as areas where we can educate our partners rather than kick someone we love out of our lives. Love is more complicated than just kicking someone out because of a difference.
So...for the ladies being really really harsh on this one poster...you've NEVER been in a situation where you didn't stick up for yourself or had your feelings hurt by a guy? How lucky to get the perfect partner! Not all of us are in the same position.
Maybe she just wants some empathy. Maybe she was wanting to share her story and maybe get the courage to leave. I think we've all been in at least one situation where we kept our mouths shut and regretted it, whether we were too shy about ourselves, or didn't stick up for someone who was being victimized.
I don't like where this is going. I am *certainly* not suggesting she forgive him or stay, but could we be a little less jumpy on her? Please?
RockItRachelMae
I wanted to apologize on behalf of the condescending commenters. I hope you don't stop thinking of Feministing as a safe and supportive space just because of a few misguided comments.
We really can't judge anything based on two incidents. If those are the only two offensive things he says that's one thing, if he says these things often that's another. I'm sure you know that. There are lots of people here who will show support and you're right, you don't have to take it.
Yeah, I think it really depends. I can also think of rationales why those particular comments might not be that bad*. But if this is a pattern of behavior then its a problem.
*When I was reading this post for the first time I was appalled at first, and then when I got to the part where she says she DOES in fact wear makeup and plan to get liposuction I was like "oh, well then..." Now, the guy could totally still be being a jerk about it, but on the other hand maybe he was honestly asking if he should wait while she puts on makeup, and maybe since he know she's already made the decision to have surgery he's trying to make her feel good about it. In a backfiring-type way. The point is, I can think of reasons for those particular comments in the given context. But if he always says stuff disparaging about her body that's a problem.
We can speak to the incidents and to the poster. She commented here and may need a little help seeing that she is indeed taking it - or that she took that, in that moment-
so that when he says or does something equally or more offensive, she can feel more empowered in the moment.
She has the support of comments from us supporting her notion that she really doesn't have to take shit like that.
Do you tell him "Fuck You," or do you just say it to other people behind his back? Only one of those is refusing to take it.
Did you intend this comment to be condescending?
I meant it to be educational. It's not really any of my business whether she chooses to take it or not, although I hope she'll stop, but I'd hate for taking it to be held up as an example of how not to take it. A is A, A is not -A.
No one needs to apologize on my behalf...I find that to be condescending, since that seems to be the word of the day.
I didn't mean to be harsh, but I also didn't consider this site to be an internet form of group therapy in which we need to coddle one another and walk on eggshells in order not to *gasp* offend someone by offering our opinion.
" My Friday Feminist Fuck You goes out to all the stupid comments made by significant others regarding body image, verbal abuse, or any other demeaning thing said to someone.
FUCK YOU!"
It seems to me as though she has some pent up anger toward the situation, and she's right, she doesn't have to take it. But lingering in that grey area between the black and white of taking it and not taking it, hasn't seemed to be doing any good thus far.
Sorry, maybe I've just been way too inspired by powerful, in-your-face feminists, such as Kathleen Hanna and Lydia Lunch who just put it out there, and I may be impulsive with my words as opposed to trying to find a more "kumbaya-esque" way of expressing my point. I never meant to offend anyone. Can't believe that I actually did. Maybe this isn't the site for me and my "obnoxious" opinions. Good Luck to you all!
Wow, I am a little shocked at the comments I got. A little bitchy.
Oh, and I broke up with him.
But I think my fuck-you goes to the bitches out there for giving me a hard time.
happy holidays!
My
Fuck you goes out to all desires for passive aggressive b.s., people who want coddling and cookie distribution-
ANd thank you to all the straight forward "bitches"
who tell it like it is till you get some sense in yo' head.
"Wow, I am a little shocked at the comments I got."
Really? huh.
"A little bitchy."
I don't have to take that!
"Oh, and I broke up with him."
Congratulations.
"But I think my fuck-you goes to the bitches out there for giving me a hard time."
I don't have to take that!
"happy holidays!"
To you and yours, as well!
Okay, here's my carefully considered, throughtfully pondered opinion, that I arrived at after hours of anxious soul-searching (er...)
{This bit was a large hunk of text I'd started to write, before I realised I could simply sum up my contribution in the following: ]
Karen Maguire RAWKS. Very, very hard :D
And aleks you ain't half bad yourself.
Ladies, you took the words right outta my mouth! *salutes*
;-)
Thank you Mona, although I am not a lady :)
Well, I always thought of the Feministing community as a space where feminists could post their stories or thoughts without getting attacked.
I don't feel as though anyone was attacking Rachel. I'm really not going to post anymore under this thread, but I would like to point out that feminists have never changed anything by tip-toeing around issues, not challenging or questioning ideas (which is more like what I felt was going on here) or agreeing to everything that was put out in front of them.
Feminism is not a popularity contest. Feminists don't always agree with other people out of fear of being called a "bitch," which is what those who opposed Rachel were called. Oh, let's not forget the "FUCK YOU!" that was directed toward us for not giving her pats on the back and a sympathetic "there, there..." while she talked about her boyfriends reactions to the sexy neglige she bought for him, the comments she made on another woman's breasts and her future plans regarding lipo.
As you said, Feministing IS a place where we should be able to post our thoughts without getting attacked, so I'm confused as to what you consider an attack. Were we attacking her for having different views on the matter, or was she attacking us with her sexist remark of referring to us as "bitches?"
I'm not here to fight with anyone or cause trouble. I'm here to share my thoughts on feminism, and they may not always be the exact same thoughts as others have. I can't promise that everyone will LOVE what I have to say, but I can promise that I will never resort to calling anyone who has a different opinion of me a "bitch" or any other remark that is demeaning to women. Ok? Thanks.
P.S. I meant to say "Different opinion AS me," in that last sentence.
P.S. I meant to say "Different opinion AS me," in that last sentence. I'm not quite sure how to edit comments once they have been submitted. Oops!
I don't think you can edit after you hit submit.