You kind of pointed out the reason but then dismissed it. Men are significantly more likely to kill themselves than women.

We could focus equally on how rape affects both sexes, but we tend to focus on women, because they're significantly more likely to encounter the problem.

If this post is a joke or a piece of self-satire, it's not funny. If it's serious, then I guess we see why so many young women who support feminist ideals run from the "Feminist" brand.

My comment is that they link men's suicide being linked to the current economic situation. They're saying that because of the current situation, men are killing themselves. There's a lot more to it than that - women are just as affected as men, if not more.

it's not that women who attempt suicide are any less depressed or troubled or whatever than their male counterparts. however, men do tend to choose more violent and certain methods for ending their own lives. calling female suicide attempts "half-hearted" undermines the importance of the issue and overlooks the real mental health problems that need to be addressed.

I do agree that the wording of women "halfheartedly" taking pills comes across as patronizing.

On the other hand, this article is accurate in the gender differences concerning suicide. Women's (and most often girl's) attempted suicides are a serious concern and should not be dismissed. But the increase in male's suicide is a feminist issue - masculinity. The connection with males' likelihood to use guns and the fact that this is highly related to patriarchal ideals of men needing to support their families (I am not saying I believe this is how it should be - but how it is interpreted by the people who commit suicide) are related to the way our society constructs and interprets masculinity.

And also as a critique of the article, I saw no mention of GLBT communities, which we know have one of the highest risks for suicide. Heteronormativity?

This post sounds very much like the kind of thing we criticize MRAs for all the time - complaining whenever a women's issue gets any traction at all in the media. "Oh, men suffer domestic violence too, so it's unfair for the media to pay any attention to women." In fact it's appropriate for media and the government to give particular concern to women about women's issues, and it's appropriate to deal with men's issues the same way. About 80% of suicide victims are men. About 80% of DV victims are women. No, we shouldn't dismiss the minority. Yes, we should concentrate our efforts where it will do the most good.

Is prostate cancer the only legitimate men's issue?

Perhaps women, many of whom are mothers, are less likely to kill themselves during economic downturns out of a sense of duty to their children.

In economic downturns, I personally have resorted to cleaning houses, mowing lawns, elderly and small child care, stripping, food industry work, etc. etc.

Women are still conditioned to be the sole or primary care givers of children. Men are more likely to be dead beats than women are.
Not that people who commit suicide don't feel a sense of responsibility. I think it just isn't as strong as the depression that leads to suicide.

I could be way off- just some thoughts on it.

I actually think the reporter was trying to make the point overall that suicide attempts in general are not the solution that those attempting them think they will be. While the "halfhearted" thing was a poor choice of words and can easily be misinterpreted as sexist, it might not have been meant that way.

I also don't see it as necessarily belittling to imply that women tend to make more passive suicide attempts. That's certainly what statistics indicate and I'm guessing the tendency for men to make more sucessful attempts is more due to their being conditioned to bottle up emotions until their effects become more drastic - not due to their problems being more "serious."

I do think it's a good idea to talk about male depression and suicide issues because, backlash aside, let's be honest with ourselves: our emotions get more attention and more help. We pay a price for that, of course, but I think if men were given more freedom to talk about their emotions, we'd see more attempts and fewer sucesses from them, too.

According to a 2007 study*,, males are 3 times more likely to commit suicide than females in the United States; however, a 2001 study** reported that females were 3 times as likely to attempt suicide as males.

This suggests that women are more likely then men to actually try to commit suicide; however men are more likely to succeed. Such a finding introduces serious questions about how (obviously) constructive views of masculinity hurt males.

More relevant to the post, however, is the fact that such studies show that women are certainly in a place of unhappiness, and society fails to perceive it because their attempts are "halfhearted" and not serious".

*ONS, 2007, Mortality statistics, Series DH2 no. 32
*there are not a lot of proper studies concerning attempted suicide, as it is hard to

I don't see why it's wrong to focus on specifically on the suicide of men when it is considerably more likely for men to kill themselves. I don't think this dismisses mental illness/depression/suicide in women anymore than an article focusing on high blood pressure in African Americans dismisses problems high BP causes in all Americans. The article is attempting to shine some light at why a particular demographic is SO much more likely to fall victim. I do agree that the "halfheartedly take pills" comment did appear a bit condescending, it should have been worded differently. But I don't see how addressing the reasons why some people are overwhelmingly more likely to be impacted by a preventable tragedy is ignoring women in the same situation.

If anything, this is a great jumping off point to discuss gender roles.

If you all are interested in learning about gender's effects on suicide, check out the work of my favorite dead white guy, Emile Durkheim. He studies the effects of gender, religion, and even the economy on suicide rates. Pretty cool.

I agree the language is pretty bad with the whole "halfheartedly popping pills" thing, but I have to point out, the article was a link from Men's Health magazine. Agreed though, there's an overtone of "oh the poor menz" to the whole thing, and women are dismissed as a wee bit hysterical.
Actually, (and here I'm going to argue with myself) that's precisely the problem with the overtones in that magazine and probably other men's magazines. (I read the articles MSNBC links to pretty regularly) Eh, I'll stop.

"Male Suicide a Growing Concern in Tough Economic Times"

My first thought was, "So, women can't have economic concerns that are that important, now?"

I'd like to believe that your ACTUAL first thought was, "I'm sorry that men are committing suicide in increasing numbers." That should be any human's reaction to any news story that talks about increasing suicide numbers in any demographic.

Men commit suicide in greater numbers than women. It's an issue in and of itself.

Yes, in the general culture there's a belittling of women's economic concerns and women's psychological problems, but this is kind of the wrong article to use for that. I'm sure you could find something more pertinent that wouldn't involve you risking looking a tad unsympathetic about the plight of men leaving their jobs and struggling with what that means for their gender.

Maybe I shouldn't have put in the gender differences part, but the headline and the article don't seem to mesh 100%. The article is different, but -

headline - Economic recession = male suicide

To which my reply is that an economic recession isn't only affecting men, it's affecting women too, and implying that men are suddenly horribly affected is wrong. It's not like male suicide has suddenly jumped from the recession.

I'm not trying to say that suicide isn't bad for men, I just didn't like the way the headline approached it. Instead of saying men are committing suicide due to the recession, how about an article about recession issues + mental health? And if men are committing suicide in more numbers than women, due the recession, that's something to figure out and fix. But the way the it's worded is that men are having these huge issues because of the recession, when it's an ongoing, previous issue.

I have to agree with a majority of the commenters regarding this post. The author is blatantly ignoring the complexities and nuances of patriarchy and its very real effects on BOTH genders. Patriarchal ideology affects *everyone*, even those who might seem to benefit from such ideology on the surface. And making this into a competition between men and women, and whose suicide is more meaningful or important to recognize is immature and unproductive. Articles can be written about men's issues without knee-jerk reactions from women, the same way that we would like women's issues recognized in their own forum. And yes, I agree that the reference to women's suicide was problematic, but it does not detract from the very real problem that men's suicides have increased in the situation of economic turmoil.

I find it sad that we cannot focus on the issue of suicide in men without wondering why women are not getting the attention we deserve. I agree with other comments that your first thought should be, "How sad that so many men are dying by suicide and why?" For every four completed suicides by males there is one completed female suicide. On the other hand, for every three attempts by females there is one male attempt. Both sexes experience an incredible amount of pain, obviously, if suicide is the 11th leading cause of death, and around 5 million living people have attempted suicide in the United States alone. Men tend to use more lethal means when attempting or completing suicide, thus more men end up completing suicide than women, and furthermore, it is much harder for men decide to get the care that they need (not that it is not hard for women).

As a suicide researcher (predominately treatment of women who self harm, attempt and complete suicide) and a person that has experienced the excruciating pain of losing her father to suicide at the age of 16 (partly due to financial concerns), I find your post misinformed, misguided and heartless. I consider myself a feminist, but find that the suffering of all should be alleviated. No, it is not right that they referred to the use of pills as halfhearted. And no, it is not right that the article may imply that women are not as affected by the economic downturn as men. Frankly, the article is pointing out something of deep concern, people are completing suicide at higher numbers, whether that be men or women, and something needs to be done to stop that from happening. Both attempts by women and the increasing number of men completing suicide should be something that we pay attention to, and rather than complaining about how we are not focusing on women, you should be figuring out how to relieve the pain and suffering of others.

"I find it sad that we cannot focus on the issue of suicide in men without wondering why women are not getting the attention we deserve."

My issue with this post is not "what about the womenz?" but the apparent disregard for men, the subject of the original article. A reaction of "That's terrible about men. I wonder what happens to the loved ones they leave behind?" (as you would know as a researcher), or "That's too bad. I wonder how it is for women who attempt/commit suicide?" would be more understandable.

As someone mentioned, if for example, this were an article about domestic violence focusing on women, it would be an MRA approach for the gut reaction, or focus of a critique to be, "So men and children can't be victims of domestic violence?" (Really - I don't see a lot about child abuse here - why not? Or raising children in general, either. I see mention of women as more likely than men to be the abuser of children literally waved away as "women spend more time with children" as opposed to discussing the problem of the abuse itself. Or even, why women are expected to assume the bulk of child rearing duties in a hetero relationship.)

Otherwise, why would feminists would NOT be interested in how an issue affects women? Hearing (as we did later) that three times more women attempt suicide than men is a good reason. Are that many more women than men emotionally disturbed? Are men less likely to seek help?

MY reaction to the title of this OP was that it WAS going to be about the struggle of women to support their families if their main breadwinner or co-earner suffered a job loss or dip in income. There has been an article here about the economy's effect on women recently.

That said, there are those who attempt suicide not to die, but to call attention to their plight. Someone who eats a gun, or takes a serious overdose of sleeping pills AND ties a plastic bag over their head to ensure death, is trying to die, not call for help. It's not a matter of being courageous or cowardly, but as someone said, doing what works. Someone who understands how difficult it is to die by making superficial, painful cuts on one's wrists, would also understand it is more likely a call for help than a real attempt to die.

Its funny that men should once again be the ones who are suffering, I mean havent domestic violence rates risen in most countries due to the economic crisis? Like Iceland or whatever. But thats not important. Didnt men create the crisis as well and now we're all meant to sit around crying because they kill themselves? I for one fully support male suicide. It doesnt seem shocking to me either because if as a group you learn to disregard life and freedom so much why is it shocking then that that violence is often turned in on themselves. I have zero sympathy for them, particularly when we recall that the biggest killer of women is men. Fuck men. And whats up with all the mras now roaming on feministing? You cant get away from them, god just fuck off.

Let me make something clear:

Men kill themselves because they think people care.

Women kill themselves because they think no one does.

Recent work on suicide shows that actually attempting it is very much spontaneous and a function of opportunity. That is, few people decide to commit suicide, buy a gun or pills, and kill themselves. More common is suicidal feelings coinciding with access to a gun or pills, leading to the actual attempt. When looking at the gendering of suicide methods, keep in mind the things that men and women typically have access to. Anyone can buy a gun, but men are more likely to already own a gun than women. Most households have medicine cabinets, but they might not have sufficient pills of the right type to cause a lethal overdose. Access to different tools does not make one person's attempt more committed than another's.

I reject the idea, suggested by a few here, that male suicide is a greater concern b/c it is more often successful. Is it really ok to leave members of our society feeling suicidal because they probably won't actually die? What about the cost, both emotional and financial, of the failed attempts? What about the effect on the families of a failed suicide attempt? What about the potential long term disability from a failed suicide attempt? All suicide attempts are equally important regardless of success.

I had many of the same thoughts as the OP when I first read this article. I did not have them b/c I lack compassion for men or because I lack an understanding that men and women have different expectations and respond in different ways to the expectation. My outrage was that women attempt suicide in numbers that far out exceed men, but it rarely gets covered. Yet as soon as there is an uptick in male suicide, it makes the news. If we want to continue with the breast cancer analogy, imagine that breast cancer in women got virtually no coverage, but breast cancer in men got regular coverage. That is the analogous situation to the disparity in gendered suicide coverage.

Ill try and find a link for the stats but as far as the deadbeat dads thing goes, the percentage of men required to pay child support who dont pay it is actually smaller than the percentage of women required to pay child support who dont. Of course the number of men thus obligated is higher but as a percentage, women are more likely to be "deadbeats" than men. That can lead to all kinds of fascinating analysis as far as the wage gap and other things go, which to my mind is a good thing.

Kayla, as far as drawing attention, I really dont think so, and what draws more attention, a single gunshot in an empty house or an attempted suicide attempt? I really disagree that much thinking about attention goes into the decision unless the person killing themselves is trying to get the attention of a specific person, which I have seen before.

I'm really fearful of how bad the suicide rate will get. Check out this link about all the recent job losses. http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/12/05/losing_jobs_in_unequal_numbers/

Virtually all of the press on the human cost of the economic downturn that I've seen emphasizes its effect on women. Male suicide is a problem close to my heart, and the tone of the comment seemed to suggest that the article overstates the problem. That sort of thinking is hurtful, and I can tell you that it is not overblown. Male suicide is a silent epidemic in certain age groups -- of course men don't talk about it and most don't want to hear about it. I would respectfully request that you not so quickly assume that any article that focuses on males is a distortion caused by patriarchy. This one isn't.

It's an interesting story in that it shows how much societal pressures men are under as well.

However, I wonder if the fact that more (single) women are raising kids has anything to do with it. Women may feel a larger obligation to cope, for the sake of their child, especially if they don't get child support.

That said, the economy must affect both genders, in fact women more so. It's harder for us to get equal-paying jobs, and if we are pregnant, or have kids, it's harder to advance our careers and get jobs as we age (and wrinkle.)

There might be more suicide attempts by men. But that's doesn't mean they are more affected by the economy than women. There may in fact be larger numbers of women who are affected, but who have not turned to suicide.

I see many posts here discussing why men are more likely to die from suicide and why more women attempt suicide but do not die from it.

But I think the focus of the original article is that the number of men who die from suicide increase during financial downturns.

From an Asian living in Asia Pacific's point of view, I always see this kind of articles everytime there is a financial downturn or recession. It got really bad during the Asian Financial Crisis of '97 and almost everyday you could read about some used-to-be-wealthy man committing suicide because the crisis left him bankrupt and in ruins. Most of the time these men were men with families.

One of the reasons why such men would committ suicide during such hard times is because of shame, which is multiplied in most Asian societies due to a greater communal awareness.

The success of men have always largely been defined solely by their careers, while success for women have been defined by the balance they strike between family and work. While on one side of the coin this means that women might be taken less seriously at work, the flip side of the coin is that men are expected to BE their work. There is a reason why Asian families tell their childrens and especially sons to do either the hard sciences or finance/accounting studies and maybe even legal studies - the jobs these industries provide are considered to be be respectable and are of high standing because they provide a good income and "status".

When your whole life has been about getting a respectable job and earning money for the good of your family, and suddenly the crisis leaves you with nothing, there is a certain shame in that. No matter how much the woman earns, the man is still seens as the main breadwinner of the family (there are relatively very few househusbands in this part of the world- they would be seen as lacking ambition and hence - unmanly), and if his sole role of providing money for the family cannot be accomplished, then that means he has failed in his role/duty. And that brings shame to him, not only for him, but for his family (father, mother, brothers, sisters, cousins, etc) as well. When word leaks out that Mr. So and So can't even feed his own family, he might as well not be a man at all.

And if they bring shame on their family as well as having failed their "manly" duty of providing for the family, some men might see suicide as a means to escape from that shame, even if they can't erase it completely. If a man lost everything that society sees as what constitutes "being a man" is all about, it is no wonder that some men might committ suicide.

This tired trope is something you see in media culture a lot: The poor artist struggling to make ends meet, leaving his girlfriend and advising her to be with another more successful man because then she doesn't have to suffer with him and he can escape from the scathing remarks of her parents who consider him a loser for not having a well paying job. You see this in TV dramas, Music videos, romance stories....

Also, I have seen a few articles as well ever since this crisis came about of how the sex life of couples (married or otherwise) have fallen drastically because the men come home stressed from work and have next to no libido because of work worries. This seems to tie in with the cultural perception that men are defined solely by their work...I am sure there are many articles and studies out there that show that when things are bad at work, men have little or zero sexual desire. I know because I've read many of these in the past.

I am sure this applies to other men in the rest of the world as well. I agree with the above poster who said that in societies which are clearly staunch supporters of free economy, the concept of being successful by your own effort will add to the pressure that many people feel when their finances go downhill during a recession.

I personally think this is just a case of poor journalism, not of sexism. I didn't interpret the article as saying that male suicide is somehow more important than female suicide, or that the recession is hurting men more than women. The article is about the increase in number of male suicides. While I am particularly disgusted by the word "halfhearted" being used to describe womens' suicide attempts, I think that the article overall is not approaching a non-gendered issue from a sexist viewpoint, it is approaching a gendered issue.

Hey, ekd, you're famous!

http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/12/04/apparently-theres-not-enough-equality-in-suicide-for-feminists/

You've really arrived as a blogger when an anti-feminist tries to refute you.:)

This is interesting and relevant to the discussion:

More jobs have been lost in traditionally male dominated sectors than in traditionally female dominated sectors.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/12/05/losing_jobs_in_unequal_numbers/?page=1