According to a new Canadian study, women's magazines routinely use men’s opinions to justify undergoing cosmetic surgery:
"Most often, this impact is debated with regard to procedures aimed to enhance sexualized body parts... Article titles such as 'How Men Really Feel About Breast Implants' and ‘Would You Get a Boob Job for your Boyfriend’’ emphasize the perceived importance that men place on the sexual attractiveness of their female partners and use men’s opinions to justify a woman opting (or not opting) to undergo cosmetic surgery. "
"When it comes to de?ning what makes a woman beautiful, articles regarding cosmetic surgery routinely call upon men for their ‘expert opinions.’ A Cosmopolitan article regarding the growing demand for buttock implants that asks ordinary men to defne what constitutes the perfect female buttocks... The article quotes the vague ‘expert’ opinions of ‘Dean,’ who loves ‘‘a booty that’s softer and more girlie,’’ and ‘Jay,’ who really likes ‘a butt with a little oomph’. To support these lay opinions, the article cites ‘anthropological and psychological evidence’ that has confrmed that ‘‘the sight of attractive buttocks elicits a behavioural response in males: arousal’ and that in prehistoric times ‘the sexiest females . . . were the ones with the biggest buttocks’ . By supporting men’s subjective opinions with purportedly objective scienti?c (and in this case, evolutionary) research, cosmetic surgery is legitimated as a means of attracting men. In doing so, these articles (and, consequently, the magazines in which they appear) emphasize the notion that women’s bodies are for men’s viewing pleasure, while suggesting that cosmetic surgery is a logical choice for women who want to increase their chances of attracting a male partner."
This is probably not surprising, but given the physical and psychological risks associated with cosmetic surgery, however, I find these findings rather disturbing. I must ask the question: "Would you get a boob job for your boyfriend?" Or would you get butt implants to attract a man, (that is, assuming you WANT to attract a man)? Of course YOU wouldn't go this far - you belong to the Feministing community. But I would be interested to find out how many women in the general public would answer yes. Or, how many (presumably heterosexual) men would have a risky procedure done to attract a partner? Yet another reason why I'm glad I don't read "women's" magazines.
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I'm not sure why the feminists here tend to de-emphasize appearance. Appearance is an important part of how I decide whether I'm attracted to someone, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, or why it shouldn't work both ways. Men don't really have any options for cosmetic surgery, but I bet if they did, men would get them done more frequently than women. Men are just as obsessed with how to attract women as many women are about men, the difference is there's no "boob job" equivalent for men.
Also, here is a difference between saying that women's bodies are for men's viewing pleasure, and saying that men enjoy looking at women's bodies. Saying "men find this feature attractive" doesn't say anything other than that men find that feature attractive. If a woman is interested in attracting a man, what other question should she be asking? It doesn't just work one way. I know women who won't consider dating a man who isn't at least relatively muscular and in good shape. That doesn't mean that they think men's bodies are only for their viewing pleasure, it means that those are features that attract them. A woman with perfect breasts DOES have a generally higher chance of attracting a male partner, I don't see how that is anything but logical.
In a discussion about what is attractive, the opinions of the opposite sex are obviously going to be of the highest interest for most people, because that's who most people are trying to attract.
I don't agree with the statement, "A woman with perfect breasts DOES have a generally higher chance of attracting a male partner, I don't see how that is anything but logical". I don't think this statement is necessarily logical because attraction and beauty are subjective. I don't think "perfect breasts" exist, as many men (and women) will find boob jobs to be unappealing, due to the plastic look, even if the breasts are shaped to look "perfect". Other people with prefer it. Some people like big breasts, some people like little breasts, and some people prefer other physical features over breasts. So, I don't think a woman with "perfect breasts" would necessarily have a higher chance of attracting a male partner. However, a woman with breasts that you consider prefect may have a better chance of attracting you.
My problem with plastic surgery is that it attempts to define to us what we should find beautiful and tries to make beauty objective. I think what we find attractive is more complex than ideal societal standards.
Men don't really have any options for cosmetic surgery?
According to the ASPS, the top five surgical procedures for men are: Nose reshaping, Hair transplantation, Eyelid surgery, Liposuction, and Breast Reductions. But somehow men make up only roughly 15% of the surgical market.
Of course appearance is important - for both sexes - but there is definitely a difference regarding the acceptability of cosmetic surgery for men vs. women, and in this case, women are encouraged by the media to undergo life-threatening procedures to be more attractive for men.
Does a women with perfect breasts necessarily have a better chance of attracting a partner? Perhaps if everything else about this woman is equal to the rest of the pool, but I doubt that her breasts are the ONLY feature her potential partner is looking for. I would hope at least, in this day in age, that brains and personality have a role to play in partner selection.
Well, I just don't think it's realistic to say "If I just get that nose reshaping or eyelid surgery I'll get a lot more attention from women." Going from an A to a C could very likely have a big effect on who notices you and when.
And every surgery is life-threatening. Driving to work in the snow is life-threatening. Weighing risks is part of every decision.
And as far as looks vs. personality, a lot of appearance isn't even that it's ultimately important, but it's important in terms of who gets noticed, who gets approached, and who generates interest initially. Lots of people would work well with lots of other people, but making the initial connection is the really tricky part. A lot of that is based on looks. I think of looks as the gateway to starting a relationship, and once you're involved personality becomes important.
There is a reason that men make up only 15 percent of the cosmetic surgery. The perceived value of men as a romantic partner isn't nearly as heavily based on appearance as it is for women. How frequently do you see an unattractive man with an attractive woman? How frequently do you see the opposite? Men can still be seen as attractive partners even if they aren't the most physically attractive; they have other qualities that are taken into consideration.
For women, however, the majority of their perceived value is based on their appearance. Or at least this is what the socialization of our society suggests. Many male friends evaluate each others girlfriends based on their physical appearance ONLY, and berate anyone who has a sub-par girlfriend. In movies only the pretty girl gets the guy; very rarely is it the nerdy/undesirable one. And if the nerdy/undesirable one does get the guy, its because shes undergone some kind of magical, cinderella transformation.
Girls and women have been told if you want to attract a man, your looks are the most important part. And men are told the attractiveness of your girlfriend is an essential defining feature of your worth as a man. Whether or not this should be true in reality doesn't negate the fact that its true in the minds of many men and women in the hetero dating game. Men see imperfect looking women as "less than," because of this life long socialization, and this fact pushes many women to plastic surgery, believing that their natural "imperfections" make them valueless as romantic partners.
Compound this with the fact that women are trained to believe our value as beings is based on the evaluation of the male gaze,and its no wonder women are willing to risk surgical complications and death to "look perfect."
Sorry in advanced for typos, that sort of turned into a rant.
According to the ASPS, the top five surgical procedures for men are: Nose reshaping, Hair transplantation, Eyelid surgery, Liposuction, and Breast Reductions.
4 of those procedures can be done for health reasons. Nose reshaping to change the sinuses for snoring. eyelid surgery because sagging eyelids can make the eyelashes scratch the lens. Liposuction to reduce weight for breathing (if you have sleep apnea and the positive air flow machine, you have to sleep on your back). The same goes for breast reduction.
What would be interesting (and more telling) to know is at what stage of life these procedures are being done. I would bet that woman are getting their most common procedures done earlier than men with theirs because of the self-esteem related problems with unattainable beauty. If the average age of plastic surgery could be dug up somewhere that would be interesting.
The gene fairy went a bit wonky in my family. I am a full C. Mother barely fills out an A.
Granted, I've got about 20lbs on mother, and she grew up as a gymnast and with an eating disorder, so our bodies have turned out differently.
Mother is not old-- she's only 46-- and she often goes about saying how much she wants a boob job. There was one time when she was engaged to a doctor, and his wedding gift to her was going to be an augmentation.
I have repeatedly told her that this is silliness, and she's just beautiful the way she is (and so is everyone else around her-- she's told me I need a nose job and my brother that he needs a chin implant, but I blame this on her addiction to Dr. 90210). You can wear shirts that I could never dream of, I say! I wear something in a v-neck and I'm a whore, while you're just cute! I say.
But she often gets upset about the issue, claiming she feels like "not a real woman" because of her lack of bosom. I don't know what to attribute this to-- biology, perhaps, and breasts being a sign of healthy procreation? And certainly the media, for which boobs can do no wrong.
Personally? I don't think I'd ever change something about myself for anyone other than myself. But in that thread, I don't think my mother would, either. Anything she did would be ultimately for herself.
I've heard that a lot of women's cloths are designed assuming that you'll have breasts, and that if you are flat as a board you're much more limited in what you can wear.
I think it goes both ways. There's no way all clothes can be designed to fit flatteringly on all people; so no matter what you're shaped like some things will fit and some won't. Very flat women can wear almost anything without showing cleavage, but they also can't really show cleavage when they want to. When I was an A-cup I couldn't wear some dresses that come with cups that I didn't fill out; now that I've gone on the pill and became a B-cup I can't wear some of those little summer dresses with just cloth triangles on top. Either way you're going to be limited somewhere.
It depends on the clothing and your body shape. I'm a D-cup, and button-up shirts have fit me funny since I passed a B. They tend to assume that larger women have larger breasts, which is usually true, and so if your boobs are big for your body type, which mine are, you're going to get fucked over a lot. I assume having small boobs for your body type is also difficult.
There isn't any magic ratio of measurements that will fit everyone, and so designers do the best they can. A lot of times I think they make clothing to fit the body type it will look the best on, assuming that those people are more likely the buy the item. So a lot of plunging necklines are designed with the flat-chested in mind. (At least, that's what it seems like to me. But like I said, I have D-cups.)
"But she often gets upset about the issue, claiming she feels like "not a real woman" because of her lack of bosom. I don't know what to attribute this to-- biology, perhaps, and breasts being a sign of healthy procreation? And certainly the media, for which boobs can do no wrong."
So many men having flat chests might be a factor for her - it is for me.
I think cosmetic surgery is far too complicated of an issue to boil down to the male gaze, etc. It's a complicated interplay of societal expectations and personal agency.
I've been doing a lot of reading on this right now, and there's a lot of research about how women get cosmetic surgery to have their bodies accurately represent how they view themselves to the world. If they do that in order to be comfortable in a relationship, I don't know if I can necessarily declare that's wrong or should be judged.
The problem is not that the focus is on appearance. The problem is that the focus seems to be placed on the whatever happens to be the beauty standard de jour. In the US, big booties where not always in style folks, neither were big lips. Hey I'm not complaining though, that shit is finally swinging my way, lol.
Seriously, though. Many people who get cosmetic surgery look fine the way they are.
From a societal and biological viewpoint, being beautiful no more guarantees a faithful mate than being "plain"; furthermore, an average woman using surgery to augment her looks to attract or keep a man, has simply succeeded in selecting for men who place more emphasis on societal beauty standards. So what happens when the woman eventually starts to show her age? In essence, sagging and wrinkling with the mate who chose you because you were a 9 instead of a 6. Yep, sounds like a great choice.
"From a societal and biological viewpoint, being beautiful no more guarantees a faithful mate than being 'plain'"
But how does that viewpoint regard being "beautiful" and being "plain" compare to being "ugly," and what about those of us who can't go from "ugly" to "plain" without surgery and equivalent treatments?
Have you ever heard of the saying, "Show me a beautiful woman, and I'll show you someone tired of fucking her?"
Basically, we are all fucked, life is cruel.
Never. I might, however, choose to get one for myself. I've always keep in mind the possibility of getting a reduction at some point.
I can relate. I wouldn't get surgery just to attract a sex partner, but I might get it to increase my perceived employability.
Oddly enough this issue has become important to many women I know as they reach their late 30s or 40s. Most are divorced and looking for a new boyfriend/mate. We just had a long discussion on this at a Christmas party. The end result of which is that (surprise) men are shallow. In general a womans attractiveness really does make a huge difference. The top two things that all of the women that were successful in getting multiple dates did was lose weight and get a boob job. In all cases they received a great deal more attention from men.
I don't think I would get surgery just for a boyfriend. It's a big thing. If it were something I was thinking about for myself and the boyfriend was into the idea, that might affect my decision.
I don't think it's a bad thing to change aspects of your appearance for your partner. You want the person you're having sex with to be attracted to you. There needs to be some give and take, obviously. A man who demands a shaved pussy but refuses to manscape is an asshole. But if there's something your partner finds attractive that isn't too difficult to do, I think it's a good thing to do it. If I were dating a guy who was really into bush, I'd stop shaving for him.
I agree with whoever it was who said that appearance is important to me. I can't have sex with someone I'm not attracted to. Of course personality is important, but when you meet someone for the first time you have to decide whether or not you'd like to get to know them better. I'm much more likely to spend time with a man if I find him attractive the first time I meet him.
Unfortunately, I've usually found the opposite is true. Clothes seem to be designed for teeny ladies without any body fat, including breasts. It seems dumb to me to assume that women DON'T have breasts, since most of us do...for chrissakes, I have B-cups and I still have to size up just to fit them into clothes.
Women's clothing in general is just plain screwed up.
quick ponder...i wonder how many lesbian women elect for cosmetic surgery?
"would you get a tit job for your girlfriend?"
hmm.
People who are interested in male body image may be interested in this San Francisco Chronicle (maybe double-listed in the NY Times) article that I read a year ago about male breast reduction surgeries:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/06/24/MNGQAQEQOA1.DTL
For those who want only the gist of it, more boys from 13-19 are asking for this surgery every year (21% increase from 2005 to 2006), to reduce what they see as unsightly weight gain in the chest area, even if it's a problem that will resolve itself in their early twenties. 14,000 boys is obviously nowhere near the magnitude of (say# eating disorders in young women, but men respond to these #lighter) pressures in similar ways.
What is sadly incongruous about this is that beautiful people (subjectively or otherwise) still split up. The rate of separation for the non-married is something like 75 per cent. And fewer people are getting married now. So that surgery you'd be getting for your boyfriend won't likely help you stay together. And the boyfriend probably isn't worth it. This said, I believe any woman who goes through with this should extract an equivalent promise of cosmetic surgery from her paramour. If the guy refuses, DTMFA. And save yourself the bucks.
i think a lot of this has to do with culture. I am from Honduras and there is not nearly as an obsession with breasts as there is here in the States. I've never seen anything like it. Even Europeans will tell you that Americans are obsessed with breasts. I personally date an American guy and most of my friends are guys. We talk about this a lot and they will admire a girl's breasts, but I don't know any of them who would date a girl or go talk to a girl just bc she has big boobs. I have very small breasts and have always received a lot of (mostly unwanted)male attention. A girl in my school who was pretty and had big "porn-like" breasts was always complaining how she never had a bf. So there you go. It really isn't that important. Im also bisexual and know many girls who are attracted to girls with big breasts, so it may not be nesessarily just a male issue. I think we place too much emphasis on what men will think... and it is sad that women are willing to undergo plastic surgery to "improve" their chances of men being attracted to them, without realizing that a man that is attracted tot hem only bc they have fake boobs is not really the man (or women) you'd want to date.
i think a lot of this has to do with culture. I am from Honduras and there is not nearly as an obsession with breasts as there is here in the States. I've never seen anything like it. Even Europeans will tell you that Americans are obsessed with breasts. I personally date an American guy and most of my friends are guys. We talk about this a lot and they will admire a girl's breasts, but I don't know any of them who would date a girl or go talk to a girl just bc she has big boobs. I have very small breasts and have always received a lot of (mostly unwanted)male attention. A girl in my school who was pretty and had big "porn-like" breasts was always complaining how she never had a bf. So there you go. It really isn't that important. Im also bisexual and know many girls who are attracted to girls with big breasts, so it may not be necessarily just a male issue. I think we place too much emphasis on what men will think... and it is sad that women are willing to undergo plastic surgery to "improve" their chances of men being attracted to them, without realizing that a man that is attracted tot hem only bc they have fake boobs is not really the man (or women) you'd want to date.
When I first read the title of this post, I thought it was about low income transgendered men who want their girlfriends to pay for the first stage of their gender transition surgery!
Or, vain bodybuilder wannabees who want their partner to pay for their Pectoral Implants, so the surgeon can give them what Gold's Gym and a bottle of steroids can't!
Anyway, it is sexist - and dangerously codependent - to encourage women to get potentially life threatening surgery just to please their boyfriend!
If he won't get his penis lengthened or his stomach reduced for her, why should she get her breasts enlarged for him?
Beyond that, the pseudoscientific bullshit about the butt preferences of prehistoric men - how did they even come up with the data to make those claims?
Did they do a careful analysis of the stick figure cave drawings???? (oh, that stick figure must be female - and the squiggle in the line means she has a big butt!!!!)
Or did they set the Stargate for 200,000 years BC and do a survey of male cavepeople???
If it didn't cause so much misery for so many women, it would be funny!