I'd answer this but I'm too busy staring bug eyed at the screen.

First, you are not weak for accepting "no" as an answer. I once *ahem* "escorted" a man out of a bar for not accepting no. (He was frightened and thought I was crazy.) :-)

Second, stick your standards. I believe, too, that feminism is a way of viewing the world that permeates every aspect of life and that sharing that with someone is CRUCIAL. That is not to say you must feel the same about everything, but a willingness to hear each other, and at some basic fundamental level agreement on equality must be there. Some of the very worst sexists I know are women, who truly believe women are not/should not be equal in the eyes of society, law, etc. There is also a certain amount "internal sexism" or misogyny that each of us females deals with to some extent.

Third, growth is a process. So beginning to date someone who doesn't quite "get it" yet, doesn't mean all is lost. I have been partnered, on an off, with the same man for 12 years and we still have really basic philosophical discussions about gender because the world we live in encourages conformity to these roles, and it is super easy to fall back into them. It is much more difficult to resist, especially as a couple, than to just accept the way that EVERY institution is set up as a heterosexual patriarchy.

Who knows, you might be the ultimate new feminist recruiter. :-) Because speaking for myself and other "experienced" feminists, we are a wee bit suspicious of men who call themselves feminists, much like people of color are a wee bit suspicious of white folks saying they aren't racists.

That's my 20 cents worth. Stay safe in Iraq.

When it comes to dating practices, trying to navigate through the patriarchy can be difficult when the only tools available are feminist beliefs. My partner and I are both proud feminists, so this issue has come up more than once. Our conversations have usually involved trying to answer these questions:

1. Who makes more money or has more discretionary income? In my case, I make more money than my partner because I work more hours but still scrape by. On the other hand, he has more discretionary income because his parents help him pay for college and expenses (we are both students). It just makes more sense for him to pay for the majority of our outings.

2. Who wants to pay? Feminism is supposed to be about choice. If I want to pay, I pay. If he wants to pay, he pays. If we both want to pay, we see who can whip out his or her respective credit card first; winner pays. We do not like to split the check, so we do not. Splitting the check might work for you. Or, my parents would split the date. For example: one pays for dinner and the other pays for the entertainment afterwards, or one pays for dinner and the other pays the tip.

The moral of the story is that communication is key. Do not make any assumption. Talk! I hope this can be of some help to you, and good luck!

My boyfriend/partner/whatever doesn't call himself a feminist. He firmly believes in equality, and treats me well, just as I treat him. I don't think the label is all that important if you can find someone who shares your values and is willing to sick to those values and live them. That being said, you'll probably meet someone nice if you continue being respectful and friendly. It sounds like you have the right attitude towards dating and know what you want from a relationship, and from what you said, you don't act like a douchebag when you go out to the "bar scene."
Be safe in Iraq.

Marc,

Don't you think this is a little harsh?

"and it seems, most of the time, the people buying the drinks are just socially-awkward dochebags who can't have a conversation without an ice-breaker. If you want to fucking talk to someone, fucking talk to them!"

Marc, some people are SHY - it's HARD for us to talk to strangers without an "icebreaker" - so could you cut us a little slack?

Not all of us are douchebags!

Hi Marc,

I come from a culture where it still very stereotypically gendered. For example, as a man, I am expected to be ambitious in my career (which translates as earning big bucks or being very good at my work), pay for dates, be the one who ask women out, plan for dates (ie. where to go, etc), be the one to drive the car when out on a date, etc etc.

It can be very confusing at times, since I generally hold a more egalitarian approach.

For example, the man always pays rule. Men who ask women out for date then do not pay are cheap bastards, and not generous in spirit. Even if the date is a mutual thing, the man should always pay for the date. The man should always be the one to drive as well.

Now, people say communication is key which yes, I agree with. But I can't imagine going on a date then asking "Would you like me to pay for the meal or do you want to split the check?" While good in theory, it doesn't work so well in practice. So the thing I always do is pay for the meal/tickets/etc....and if the lady offers to pay her share, that's great, but if not, I can hardly fault her since she is merely responding to what society says is appropriate: ie the man should pay. If I were to strike out all women who don't pay on the first date, right off the bat, I'd imagine that would considerably narrow the dating pool. (this might not apply in a western culture, as western cultures show more egalitarian approaches to dating and life).

Also, I have noticed that there are some female posters here who say that if their guy was give them an engagement ring, they would break-up with the jerk.

Now imagine that I've been in relationships for years and years, and suddenly my girlfriend tells me she's looking forward to a nice engagement ring. On principle alone, I should immediately break-up with her. But relationships don't work like that, and there are certain give and takes, compromises, to be made.

Fair enough, there are those who are lucky and find a partner who identifies with their politics and principles 100%. But for the rest of humanity, we can't always be so lucky. That's why in relationships and the game of dating, sometimes we have to compromise and analyze whether we're comfortable with how much we are compromising on our principles.

Kudos to the people who can live their lives without compromising on their principles though.

Where can the heterosexual females find more men like you? That is the most frustrating part – I can’t find the feminist men. I am sick of meeting guys who turn out to be secret sexists, letting the little comments slide out every now and then. And I am sick of getting into arguments with male friends when they make a sexist or ignorant comment to me and it into a big fight. (But I am serious – where are the feminist men?)

I warn you now, this is kind of long – but I do hope you read it because I could use some feedback as well. As a heterosexual female, dating as a feminist is SO HARD and I am letting my frustrations out here:

I have so many issues with dating as a feminist because, sadly, feminism carries such a stigma. “The F-Word” is taboo and I feel like I am a minority. I do see feminism as a religion as well. Honestly, I do not identify with a specific religion, but I see feminism as a set of values that I live my life by (in a way that is a religion I suppose). Feminism is very important to me because it helped me over come my disordered relationship with body image – thus dating a feminist is very important (especially if I decide to marry) because it is a HUGE part of how I became who I am.

A lot of times men tell me I am “too uptight” and take the feminist issues “too personally.” But sexism to me is like religious persecution – you don’t go around making rude demeaning comments to someone of a different religion. Sexism takes many forms, and when a man tells me I am too “up tight” and need to “calm down” or “pick my battles,” I take that as sexism because it belittles my values. I find a lot of men have that attitude when I express feminist views, and I can’t date someone who is going to even “joke” about sexism.

The heteronormative dating standards bug the hell out of me! (I actually wrote a couple posts about this as well.) The “games” women are expected to play depict women as passive, dependant, and insecure – which pisses me off because they are false.

Also, I feel that “traditional” weddings are EXTEMELY sexist… I won’t go into all of that now, but I know that if I do get married, there will not be an extravagant, “traditional” ceremony – it will be in a court house and then a nice, fun dinner and party with our families (because who doesn’t like to dance and eat?). I also wrote a post about this – I don’t date to find my husband, right now I am in college so I date to have fun because I know that I have at least 10 years before I would consider being married – but who really knows what could happen. Eventually I hope I find someone I can share my life with, but that someone needs to have the same views as me in regards to marriage. I find that this is hard and inhibits relationships as well because I was seeing a guy who almost ended a rather new (3-4 months) relationship because of my views on marriage… the point being that if we did last long term, our views on marriage would ruin things.

I have also found that a lot of men (and women too) don’t know jack shit about feminism. They think it’s all about Susan B. Anthony and women’s suffrage. I try to explain about the three waves, and how we are in post-third wave, and what it all means – but then the men just say that all feminists are on different pages and that is why the movement doesn’t work. Many of them think feminists are man-hating lesbians who hate wearing makeup and don’t shave their armpits – can we be a little more ignorant? Then they say feminism is “one-sided” and I try to explain that it affects everyone regardless of gender/race/class/sexuality etc and they say, “No, it’s just about women wanting to be equal. That battle has been fought already.” Too bad we are still far from equality.

I hate that men think that just because I am a woman, they need to buy me jewelry or expensive gifts. Honestly, I’d rather you buy me something useful like ice cream… I’m kidding, but I would rather a guy got me ice cream over a Tiffany’s ring or something because I would get much more use from a tub of cookie dough then a shiny piece of metal. This goes along with my feelings about “traditional” weddings, but I do not like the idea of an engagement ring – the man doesn’t get one, it supports the diamond industry, it’s a mark of ownership, a waste of money… I can go on but I won’t. Unless the man is going to get an equivalent, spare the thousands of dollars and put it to better use… or how about we both buy each other an engagement present, like “I buy you that new guitar and you buy me a new mattress.” LMAO I couldn’t think of a real example, but you get what I mean. However, I have found many men don’t have that mind set.

Overall, what is most frustrating is the lack of feminist men. Where are they? Because this is why I hate dating/typically prefer to be single – all the men I encounter are closet misogynists. Mind you, I live in NYC as well, so you would think there would be more open-minded people… I don’t know where they all are.

Fellow male feminist reporting in.

To me, feminism a mechanism of critical thinking and empathy. So it seems only natural that you would gravitate to relationships where someone had a similar interest in feminism (even if they don't call it that). To put feminist values aside is akin to "[leaving] your brain at the door."