http://web.blogads.com/advertise/liberal_blog_advertising_network
Liberal Prose BlogAds Network
Dear Assholes:

(cross-posted at Women's Glib )

Hello, good friend/acquaintance/classmate/stranger. I’m just writing to let you know that I am in fact aware that my breasts are big. Thanks.

I mean, I’ve only been living with them for years. But thank you, person/classmate-who-I-may-or-may-not-know-particularly-well-and-don’t-necessarily-feel-comfortable-with for informing me. Your comment about my chest really spurred meaningful and insightful conversation and didn’t embarrass or dehumanize me in the slightest. I feel incredibly respected.

No but seriously. Don’t tell me to, “put them away,” or notify me that you could probably swipe a credit card through my cleavage. I don’t want to hear it. If my bra is visible and you would like to enlighten me of that fact, that’s fine, but making a “hilarious” comment about my breasts because you somehow feel that it’s appropriate or because you “only want to give me a compliment” ISN’T charming. What it tells me is that you’re more interested in discussing cup size than anything I may have been able to add to our conversation.

And another thing, wearing a low-cut shirt doesn’t give you the right to comment either. I’m sorry if I’m showing cleavage, that must be really difficult for you, but I’m sure you can move your eyes about six inches to the north . It is NOT my fault that you think yourself incapable of doing the simple task of looking at my face. And NO, wearing a low-cut shirt does not mean I’m “asking for it,” no matter how many people may have told you so. Please desist.

This may seem harsh, but I have HAD IT with STRANGERS and even CLOSE FRIENDS of both genders thinking it’s entirely normal to say, “Wait, oh my God, but you have really big tits,” in the middle of a conversation. And I’m fucking sick of letting such inconsiderate assholery get to me.

With the most sincere “go fuck yourself” I can muster,
Phoebe

Posted by CipollinaBella - February 27, 2009, at 01:18PM | in Random
4

0 TrackBacks

Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Dear Assholes:.

TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.feministing.com/cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-tb.fcgi/12181

140 Comments

[0+] Author Profile Page jjgirl23 said:

Maybe they're assuming you want people looking, since you've got such big boobs and are wearing low cut shirts... kind of like if a *ahem* well endowed man wears tight leather pants, so people check out his crotch!

If you don't want people looking at them, don't leave them hanging out.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kim C. replied to jjgirl23 :

Okay, so we know you've read the first sentence, but what about the rest of the post? Phoebe was talking about how she doesn't care for people assuming things about her or her chest, yet your reasoning is based on said assumptions.

Sometimes women with big breasts simply can't find clothing that would cover them adequately, or just plain don't want to wear them. Imagine if a person with a professed foot fetish stared openly at your toes every time you wore sandals: would this be reason to change your behavior, or for them to change their own?

Shifting your eyes takes fractions of a second and an ounce of respect for the person you're conversing with as opposed to searching through stores in order to find some outfit that just maybe won't draw gazes this time.

But Phoebe isn't talking about ppl with pronounced foot fetishes, she's talking about everyday behavior. She didn't say ppl leered at her. Or make rude comments.

From what she writes it appears she's talking about flirting & edgy compliments. She seems to want her boobs to be invisible...but wears clothes which somehow highlight them. If you wear accentuating clothes don't be surprised to get remarks about the accentuated.

[0+] Author Profile Page vaseline replied to sly :

That's a bunch of BS. I see women with big breasts all of the time and that doesn't FORCE me to make comments. Noticing someone's cup size is one thing. Having the nerve and lack of disrespect to openly "compliment" or make any remark about them is quite another.

She isn't complaining about people internally acknowledging that she has big breasts, she's complaining that they feel the need to make comments about her TO her.

Freakin' wow. I clicked because I was going to leave a simple comment of "Ha!" as I find this post hilarious in its witty brevity and sarcastic but dead-on style. A kudos, that is.

Instead I find what I somehow never suspected - comments full of blame-the-vic mentality. The thing is, I don't think it's a "surprise"...but, really, it shouldn't have to happen. Poor, poor men can't control themselves in the presence of the foul-temptress woman and her too-powerful sexuality. How many sexist tropes do you want me to dish out? I have a cabinet full of them somewhere - I could keep'em coming all day.
Honestly, though, should a woman have to deal with this sort of incessant commenting because she wears a certain fuckin' shirt? How many times d'ya think men hear "Well, my gosh! Isn't your penis large!" other than in porn? It's a double-standard, keep up! That I'm pointing this out and where I'm pointing this out seems ridiculous to me. Being on the opposite side of the breast-spectrum (rather small - but not complaining), I've had my fair-fuckin-share of comments about the apparently lack-luster size of mine with no regard for what I happen to be wearing.

Should she also, then, be subjected to the creeps who take a picture with their camera phone of women's cleavage from above while on crowded buses?

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to jjgirl23 :

That comparison doesn't back up the offensive point you are making in the slightest. Yes, if a guy wears really tight pants, most girls would look. That doesn't mean he's going to get a barrage of offensive comments. No one deserves to be objectified because of what they are wearing. Are you trying to say that only small-breasted women should wear low-cut tops? Or are you saying that if a woman dresses the way she wants to that she deserves to be publicly vilified by friends and strangers? As in, she's asking for it? Why even bother posting on a feminist website if you actually feel that way?

[0+] Author Profile Page jjgirl23 replied to Stephanie1989 :

In our society, big breasts on a women are viewed as an asset. People are going to look. She knows this. If she doesn't want people looking at her boobs, she should cover them up. Yes it sucks, and yes its sexist, but the fact is, people WILL look, and if she doesn't like it, she knows what to do.

[0+] Author Profile Page alixana replied to jjgirl23 :

Plz 2 not play "blame the victim," kthx.

[0+] Author Profile Page alissa replied to jjgirl23 :

However, one could use some tact. 'Yes I see them, but maybe I shouldn't comment on them.' That's usually a good place to start.

Myself being a nice D I do have some trouble finding shirts that fit my chest. Either they are too tight, too low, or they bunch up around the shoulders and feel awkward. I would rather wear a low cut top as opposed to a top that covers but is uncomfortable. I'm not asking for comments from anyone I just want to feel good in my clothes. And no one has a right to make me feel like a piece of meat because of what I wear.

My advice to Phoebe is, if it's a man who is making the comment just come back with, "Wow I notice you look a little small in the pants. What happened to you down there?" If nothing else it will cut some of the tension in the conversation and everyone will get a good laugh.

[0+] Author Profile Page jaja replied to alissa :

what if it's a woman making the comment, what should she say?

[0+] Author Profile Page alissa replied to jaja :

I usually just reply that "Thanks would you like the name of my surgeon?" Now mine are natural but it's fun to see how they will react to such a comment.

When it's family that comments, I usually tell them that I stole them fair and square and that they can't have them back and I then point out things that they have that I don't like no ass or perfect vision. It lets them know that I don't care for their comments without being too offensive.

For the most part I find that if I show that I am comfortable with myself as a whole I don't receive the comments at future gathering. I also find that even in an offensive situation if you can infuse some kind of humor the comments will cease as well.

Self-confidence is key in dealing with any kind of uncomfortable situation and a straight forward attitude with others always helps.

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to jjgirl23 :

You are completely oblivious. My best friend could wear a burka and most men would still talk to her breasts. Is that ok with you? Clearly you've never had to talk to a close friend about how she wants reduction surgery so that people will take her seriously in academic circles. I'm not going to be able to change your opinion but I find your posts disgusting.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kari replied to Stephanie1989 :

Yes, I have talked to my friend about wanting reduction surgery, not even because of academic circles, but in everyday life. I've talked to her when she's been popping pain pills and sleeping on a pillow because her breasts are so big and hurt so much on her period that she can't sleep. Does that mean we have to punish her more by making her wear shirts that are uncomfortable because they are so tight on her chest?

To quote: "My best friend could wear a burka and most men would still talk to her breasts. Is that ok with you?"

No it's not okay. So I'm not going to make her wear certain clothes if they are uncomfortable or she shows skin. I'm going to let her wear whatever she feels comfortable in, whatever she wants to wear. So people will talk. People will talk if you have food in your teeth. Food in your teeth can go away. But women have to live with this. Telling women to construct their lives around what people will say takes that life away from her. I'm not going to be the one to do that.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kari replied to Kari :

Steph: Thought it was jjgirl23 who had made that which is why my note is crazy. But actually it supports your point, in a not entirely friendly tone. But yes I'm with you, and wish I had noticed that before I hit submit. Sorry. If I figure out how to delete/move/edit it I will.

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to Kari :

Haha I understand :)

[0+] Author Profile Page Klarrisse666 replied to Stephanie1989 :

Exactly, she's wearing that because it's how she wants to dress (I hope) and so does Phoebe!

[0+] Author Profile Page sarah replied to jjgirl23 :

Really? REALLY?

You can't be serious. My head is going to explode right now.

[0+] Author Profile Page Phoebe replied to jjgirl23 :

Excuse me, jjgirl? Honestly, I'm pretty taken by your comment. Notice that the part where I mention wearing low-cut tops is only one small part of this rant; an added, extra point. But I'm glad that you chose to take that one part to heart and assume that I let my boobs "hang out" all the time (also thanks for the respectful and understanding tone).

And even if I did wear low-cut shirts every single day, your argument puts all the responsibility of OTHER PEOPLE NOT MAKING INSULTING COMMENTS on me. Which is super progressive. And why the hell should I limit my wardrobe so that someone doesn't have to make the "extra effort" of not talking to my chest?

[0+] Author Profile Page sarah replied to Phoebe :

Ignore her, because it seems like she's just trying to be anti-feminist for shits and giggles.

[0+] Author Profile Page jjgirl23 replied to sarah :

Actually, no, I'm not. I just don't agree with her post.

[0+] Author Profile Page alixana replied to jjgirl23 :

Isn't your response to this just a TAD hypocritical that you wrote that post the other day complaining about people asking you if you were PMSing when in reality you were just, in your own words, a huge bitch? How is it sexist to ask you if you're PMSing, and it's not sexist to tell the OP here to cover 'em up if she doesn't want to be disrespected?

[0+] Author Profile Page MissKittyFantastico replied to alixana :

Haha, I almost checked to see if this post was written by the same person who wrote that post, because they sounded so similar in tone. I guess they weren't written by the same person, but its funny that you thought of that post too.

For the record, I know I came out against the OP in in the other post, but I think there's a big difference between being rude and having big boobs. Obviously its rude to comment on people's boobs and a low cut top doesn't change that.

Actually MissKitty, I just checked, it IS the same poster who made the post about the PMS comments.

[0+] Author Profile Page MissKittyFantastico replied to llevinso :

Um, CipollinaBella made this post. That's who I was referring to.

jjgirl made comments disparaging it, and someone commented that that was odd becuase the original post sounded similar to another post jjgirl had made (I'm simplifying, here, before you accuse me of misunderstanding). I commented saying I ALSO thought it sounded similar to that post jjgirl made, but in fact, this post was not made by jjgirl, this post has jjgirl complaining about it.

Is that clear?

Oh I understand now what you were trying to say, but alixana and I were talking about jjgirl (the girl disparaging the OP, not the OP of this community thread herself.

[0+] Author Profile Page MissKittyFantastico replied to llevinso :

Yeah, I know, that's what I was responding to. Generally when you say someone is being hypocritical its beccause they have done something similar; so saying that jjgirl is being hypocritical here and bringing up that other post is saying that that post has something in common with this post. I was saying that I was also reminded of that previous post. That's all.

Oh I understand now what you were trying to say, but alixana and I were talking about jjgirl (the girl disparaging the OP, not the OP of this community thread herself.

[0+] Author Profile Page MissKittyFantastico replied to llevinso :

Um, CipollinaBella made this post. That's who I was referring to.

jjgirl made comments disparaging it, and someone commented that that was odd becuase the original post sounded similar to another post jjgirl had made (I'm simplifying, here, before you accuse me of misunderstanding). I commented saying I ALSO thought it sounded similar to that post jjgirl made, but in fact, this post was not made by jjgirl, this post has jjgirl complaining about it.

Is that clearer?

[0+] Author Profile Page alixana replied to MissKittyFantastico :

She explained in the comments on that thread that her display name posted as Jensy when she made the OP, but that her comments were under her screenname jjgirl, I went back and checked before saying it was her! I only remembered her because of the confusion about it.

In other words: "Come on, we all know we live in a patriarchal world. Instead of trying to fight and change it would should just all adapt to it. It would make things much easier for everyone involved. So stop wearing low cut shirts because it's obviously all your fault and not the fault of the people making the heinous comments about your boobs. Damn all you crazy feminists for trying to rock the boat!"

/eyeroll

[0+] Author Profile Page jaja replied to llevinso :

the OP didnt say the only people making comments were men. why does everyone assume it was just men

Where in my comment did I say anything about men being the only ones that make comments or think this way? I was replying to jjgirl who's a girl so that's obviously not the case, huh? The fact is that many women subscribe to, believe in and uphold the patriarchal world that we live in as well.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kat replied to jjgirl23 :

It is true that people look at big breasts more if you are wearing a low cut shirt. But as a natural DDD cup, I stopped caring about how low my neckline was when I realized that when I was 12 years old and frequently dressed in my brothers' old clothes with freakin' braces on my teeth, I still got leered at and had adults make comments on how fast I was developing.
I figure if I'm going to get leered at in a full coverage sweater or a cute tank top, I might as well wear the tank top if the occasion is appropriate.
And there's a difference between looking and staring. I'm assuming most people here look make an effort to look nice and attractive, but isn't everyone weirded out when a stranger stares straight at them and tracks them with their eyes?.

[0+] Author Profile Page katie80andstuff replied to jjgirl23 :

jjgirl, please consider yourself part of the aforementioned group told to go fuck themselves. seriously.

on another note, big breasts or small breasts, women are all part of the sex class and treated as such. if you yourself, jjgirl, have never been on the receiving end of harassment due to the fact that you are female, well, bully for you but don't come to a feminist forum and insist it's the way women dress that attracts negative attention. victim blaming at it's most insidious, disgusting form!

[0+] Author Profile Page katie80andstuff replied to jjgirl23 :

jjgirl, please consider yourself part of the aforementioned group told to go fuck themselves. seriously.

on another note, big breasts or small breasts, women are all part of the sex class and treated as such. if you yourself, jjgirl, have never been on the receiving end of harassment due to the fact that you are female, well, bully for you but don't come to a feminist forum and insist it's the way women dress that attracts negative attention. victim blaming at it's most insidious and disgusting!

if you saw someone with large thighs wearing shorts would you be like "DAMN THOSE ARE SOME BIG OL' THIGHS!!!" ??
i dont think so. its rude to make comments about other people's bodies. period.

[0+] Author Profile Page Salad replied to the.empress :

Yes, THANK YOU! What ever happened to manners?

But we aren't just talking about guys who make sexist comments...the complaint was that people LOOK at her boobs. WTF??? I mean in your example you would surely notice--and probably stare at a big, old fat man wearing Speedos. And he would deserve the stares.

Now the fact of the matter is that a lot of people wear clothes that accentuate the positive (or at least they think they do). So why be surprised at compliments? Guys with muscles wear tight shirts & seem to be ok with the compliments. Most women enjoy nice compliments if they're wearing something, ahem, accentuating. This doesn't mean leering, or rude comments, we're talking legitimate compliments.

I would have to wear six sweaters and a tent to dis-accentuate my breasts, you know?
Sometimes, for example in summer, I refrain from wearing six sweaters and a tent and I wear tank tops, as anyone else. Not so that you or anyone else could stare at my chest or make remarks about the size of my breasts but because I find tank tops comfortable, especially in summer.

Believe it or not, I haven't grown my breasts for people to stare at or comment their size. I wear fitted tops - first, I find them comfortable, second, I look rather good in them. And 'I look rather good' doesn't mean 'look, everyone, my boobs!'.

As someone has said, a burqa wouldn't help. So, again, I haven't grown my breasts to show you, regardless that it's visible that I have them.

[0+] Author Profile Page Dear Audrey replied to jjgirl23 :

Yeah, SHE should cover up, every other rude fucker making inappropriate remarks should keep at it.
*head desk*

[0+] Author Profile Page Briony Marie replied to jjgirl23 :

I knew someone would write that.

Wearing low cut/v neck/scope shirts actually appear smaller, wearing a turtleneck makes them look bigger.

Watch some Stacy and Clinton, they are miracle workers.

[0+] Author Profile Page Briony Marie replied to Briony Marie :

*make breast appear smaller*

I was in such a rush to comment I left out the most important piece.

[0+] Author Profile Page demimonde said:

THIS.

*applause*

[0+] Author Profile Page melissad884 said:

This is awesome. My boyfriend used to talk to women's chests. It's the first thing I've learned about him that makes me cringe. He told me he'd like to be able to say he changed for noble reasons, but in face he just didn't want to be "one of those guys" so he grew up. I appreciate that he appreciates my D cups, but he's lucky he didn't stare when we met or I might never have agreed to that first date.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kari said:

My friend has borderline DD, and all she wears are tshirts. Maybe a V neck. You can't see this woman's collar bone. And you know what? She still gets inappropriate comments ALL THE TIME. She doesn't have to speak to a guy for him to give her his number: at numerous restaurants where she hasn't said anything to the guy except her order, he will think magically that she will want him and gives her his number. And it's all because the only think that they can see are her boobs, regardless of the fact that you can't see skin below her neck. IT'S NOT HER FAULT THAT SHE GETS TREATED THIS WAY. It's society's fault for treating big breasted woman like they are only a giant set of walking boobs. No heart, stomach, pancreas, arms. Just boobs that are so big that they hide whatever legs they walk on. Big breasts on women are an "asset" because society says women can use those breasts to get what they want from men. That they don't need a personality or brain. And that's internalized by MEN, not just women. So that's all men see when they see a big breasted woman: that if he has something she wants, he can have tons of fun with those boobs. It also creates a stigmatism against small breasted woman, because then society says that those aren't worth it.

I say bravo to you Phoebe for challenging the idea that big breasted woman have to be cover at all times. It sucks. It really sucks. But this world needs more big breasted women, in fact all women, to assert the fact that boobs are just for male pleasure. They serve a biological functions. And yes, we have them. Men have them (yes, men, those are nipples on your very own bodies!), but they don't produce milk and grow outward from their bodies in puberty. Take power in your breasts Phoebe! Boob power!!

[0+] Author Profile Page sarah said:

I wear size 34DD.

ANYBODY who has big boobs knows that it doesn't always matter what you wear, because unless it's a turtle neck, they are going to come out of the top.

Actually, a fucking regular T shirt with no cleavage makes people say things about my boobs. It doesn't even matter what I wear.

So "JJgirl", shame on you for trying to make women feel bad about wearing what they want to wear.

[0+] Author Profile Page feministinmississippi replied to sarah :

and you know when big breasted women wear turtle necks their boobs look huge anyways because of how much fabric is covering them.

Yes, this! When I wear high-necked tops I think it just makes them look bigger. Not to mention, it's not usually very flattering...

[0+] Author Profile Page Phoebe said:

But thanks to everyone for the support! :)

[0+] Author Profile Page questioning? said:

As a man, I am sympathetic and have trained myself not to stare. However, I can't say I'm not a bit jealous of large-breasted or otherwise attractive women. I'm bisexual, and I get hit on by men a thousand times more often than women. Getting checked out can be a huge confidence booster.

I understand that you don't want to be defined by your breasts, and that it must be uncomfortable in professional settings, but I ask a question: have your breasts ever made you feel good about yourself? have they made you feel sexy? I ask this because the average guy goes his entire life without being objectified in this way.

I think as a culture we should objectify women less, but also celebrate the male body more. I've heard comments about how the female figure is more aesthetically pleasing so frequently, and not just from straight people. When gay men repeat this sexist bullshit I can barely control myself.

[0+] Author Profile Page summer_time replied to questioning? :

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for but Yes! my breasts do make me feel good about myself and make me feel sexy. I'm a DD but I would hope that any woman at any size can celebrate their individual sexiness. Its tough sometimes though, because I feel my "sexiest" when I'm in an outfit that I like and that fits well (that's important) because it is VERY difficult to find anything that fits well. (BTW for any woman having the same issues try MYSHAPE.com - it's great! finds close to fit you)

But boy when I do find that outfit I feel great, cuz I like my curvy body. Also if it makes a difference I find the male body VERY sexy :) And I disagree when people say that only the female body is aesthetically appealing, thats silly

As a man, I would like to make this all about me and my experiences.

Commenting on the societal double standard regarding the difference between the public perception of women's bodies and men's bodies isn't exactly a plea to make this all about the menz.

[0+] Author Profile Page nightingale replied to FrumiousB :

This, totally. His comment was self-centered, condescending, and totally out of place. Oh, poor thing, he doesn't get hit on and his self esteem suffers. Totally inappropriate in a post about women who can barely go outside without getting hit on to the point of harassment.

I get you. As a woman with a large chest, yes, I do enjoy it and it does help me feel sexy. And when I choose to share them with a guy and he enjoys them as one (or I guess two, ha ha) part of me, that's great. However, there are far more men out there who assume that they can share them by ogling or commenting and that is EXTREMELY uncomfortable. I don't think of that as a come-on, I think of it as harassment. If someone wants to come on to me, they are welcome. If they want to come on to my boobs, they can go fuck themselves.

[0+] Author Profile Page NellieBlyArmy replied to questioning? :

You know, I'm a DD and I have never had a single person stare at my breasts. Ever. Not even in a bodice. Never had any inappropriate or otherwise sexual comment made about me, never been approached by anyone, catcalled, nothing. Sexual harassment does not exist in my world. Nor does the confidence-boosting attention you're talking about. So no, they don't boost my confidence. It just makes me wonder what's so wrong with me that even big breasts can't attract any attention since I'm told day in and day out that men will ogle anything with tits. Having witnessed friends get that sort of attention, I think I prefer my invisibility, but it can hurt. And then I think about how fucked up that is - I feel like a hideous monster because I don't get sexually harassed.

I'm not quite sure where I'm going with this, I'm just a little startled and dismayed that apparently everyone's belief is that big breasts = sexual attention. It doesn't for everyone. And it's seriously sad that attention to breasts makes people feel bad, and a lack of attention makes people feel bad. Women just live in this impossible situation between the proverbial rock and hard place.

Ahem, hated hated hated my breast ever since I had some. Useless bags of fat that only make tailoring clothes difficult.
But for a narrow circle of female friend, whenever I even hinted a whine, the usual response was Oh, you should be happy, there are women who are paying enormous money to get such boobs.
I would want to have a dollar for every time when a shop assistant insisted that this top with a neckline down to the waist would suit me because 'I can fill it properly'. Usually, the type of tops that should be 'filled in' cannot be worn with a bra that would serve a purpose - is it expected that all large-breasted women are silicone or wtf?
No, I don't feel sexy with large breasts. I feel ugly and I'm being disgusted by people who think me sexy. I want to attract people by something else than my curves, sorry.
(And yes, I'm saving so that I can get the stuff cut off someday.)

I feel so bad. Thank you for this post! I have always thought about this in a gendered sexual way. But I never thought about it as far as my friends. Just because I am a woman doesnt mean I have the right to comment on my friends breast! Even if its positive. Who gives a shit, because who wants to hear about how large their breasts are all the time! And I kinda feel bad cause I can't help myself to that first look. After the first look I dont look again. But its like if someone had a scar on their face or something. You gotta look one good time so you can get over it and move on. So if I think a woman has large breasts I just kinda look and get it over with and then im fine. But i guess thats kinda wrong cause im bi...hmm. I dont know. Bottom line, no more comments!

[0+] Author Profile Page Femgineer replied to feministabroad :

I think I've said something about a woman's large breasts before, and just saying that they are big is not a compliment at all, its just a fact.
So, what if you are giving a compliment. Like saying "Your boobs look fantastic!" People compliment other's features all the time (hair, eyes, legs).
I would not be opposed to someone telling me they liked a particular part of my body. However, if they just said that it is small, big, huge, wrinkled, etc, I would not care for their comment.

[0+] Author Profile Page Femgineer replied to Femgineer :

Bah. I wrote my first sentence after I wrote the last sentence. To clarify, I don't think that stating facts like "your boobs are huge!" is ever appropriate.

[0+] Author Profile Page FLT replied to Femgineer :

It's never ok to make personal remarks to someone you don't even know.

I know someone, who sick of this bs, replies with a puzzled look and, "They are? Dang, they were normal yesterday."

[0+] Author Profile Page Vasa said:

I personally don't mind fleeting glances and tasteful compliments (my particular circle of friends manages to make these kinds of compliments
respectfully). Prolonged staring and disruptive or vulgar comments are a different matter.

This is how I feel as well. I have DD breasts, and I get looks regardless of what I'm wearing. To be honest, it doesn't phase me. Sometimes other women comment on being "jealous," which I find sad, but don't get too upset.

I've never encountered people saying things like Phoebe and some other posters have mentioned. Those things are just rude, and I can't believe people say them!

[0+] Author Profile Page squiddie said:

I'm a 30 DD and I applaud this.

Especially when people feel the need to come up and ask me if they're real (including bra salespeople on the very rare occasion that I buy bras--I have nervous breakdowns every time because I go through 4 or 5 stores before I even find something in my size, let alone something I like). And when I attest that they are indeed my natural breasts, some people have actually felt the need to grab them and verify this.

In response to Stephanie: I'm actually considering the same thing right now. I want to become a bioterrorism threat analyst for the department of defense or the FBI, and I'm actually scared that these "boys' clubs" aren't going to take me seriously because of what lies about 6 inches below my face.

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to squiddie :

Yeah, it really sucks. I don't personally have that problem, but I have more than one close friend considering reduction. Whatever you decide, good luck :)

[0+] Author Profile Page chou replied to squiddie :

I'm a 32DD (I think, haven't been to Nordstroms recently enough to get them to size me), but if you need bras and can get yourself to a Nordstrom's, do it. The saleswomen are always polite, and can generally size you with one or two looks and find the bras that fit your breast shape.

But, on a more relevant side, I'm terribly lucky that I am almost six feet tall my DDs aren't *huge* the way they are on a friend who is the same size but six inches shorter. She gets a lot more shit that I do.

[0+] Author Profile Page squiddie replied to chou :

I like Nordstrom's, and I try to get there about once a year, when I'm visiting my parents. Unfortunately, the nearest one to me is a 3 hour drive. And even then, they only had 2 bras in the entire store that fit and had to order some more from other stores in the region.

Also, being just shy of 5'4", the DD does look huge.

[0+] Author Profile Page Emmarie said:

I definitely sympathize with what big chested women have to go through and I've witnessed it first-hand having 2 good friends that are double D's. But can we also give a shout out to all the women out there with A's or smaller who have to deal with the insensitive jokes about being "flat", not being able to fill out tops because most are made for full-breasted women, and the very clear message that somehow you're less sexy and less womanly if you don't have large breasts?

Emmarie I've dealt with both ends of the spectrum believe it or not. I developed slower than most of the girls in my high school and was incredibly flat chested until I was a sophomore in high school. I got teased by guys all the time. It was horrible. I remember the first time I bought a training bra some boy in my class found out and laughed at me asking why on earth I thought I would ever need such a thing. He made me cry he was so mean about it.

Finally I hit puberty and got boobs. Huge boobs. And it happened basically overnight. Then all of a sudden all the boys gave me all sorts of attention. Unfortunately I didn't want that kind of attention either. There were rumors that they were fake (since it happened so fast) and then all my exes (all like 2 of them) from before would joke with me about how it wasn't fair that they dated the "boy version" of me when I now had huge boobs they could play with (funny I didn't remember letting them play with my non-existent boobs before then either!). Guys would "accidently" fall and grope me in the hall. It was awful.

After a year or so I learned to appreciate them more and since I've gained and lost weight a bunch of times and my boobs have actually lost a lot of weight as well and they're now at a size I'm personally much more comfortable with. But sometimes still it really does seem like they're only there (or so the male sex seems to think) for male enjoyment, comments and ridicule. It's hard to walk around with these things on your chest sometimes, no matter what the size!

[0+] Author Profile Page Emmarie replied to llevinso :

It's so true. You just can't win.

Alissa said: However, one could use some tact. 'Yes I see them, but maybe I shouldn't comment on them.' That's usually a good place to start.

Yes. How hard is this? Does basic common courtesy just go out the window when it comes to women's bodies? (Why do I ask that? I already know the answer.)

No matter what I wear, you're going to notice that I am (at a D/DD) an amply busted woman, even if you can't see cleavage. Which, unless I'm wearing a high collared shirt/turtleneck (which I typically find uncomfortable because I don't like tops fitting close to my neck/over my collarbone, generally), you might catch a hint of it at some point.

Get over it.

They're mine.

You can look (you're going to anyway, we all take in people's physical attributes), but when you talk to me you need to be making eye contact and there's absolutely no fucking reason for you to make a comment about my tits, ass, or, frankly, any other part of my body.

And that goes for strangers, friends, or relatives. Being in my social circle, being a "sister," doesn't give you any more right to comment on my physical attributes than someone else.


Thank you for posting this.

This is slightly off topic, but it's something that I always think about any time I hear commentary along the lines of "my eyes are up here." While I agree wholeheartedly and without reservation that men do not have the right to ogle or stare, and that the male gaze should not be fixated on a woman's chest, I also know that there is relatively strong social conditioning against prolonged eye contact, which is frequently seen as threatening or dominant behavior.

In thinking about where I look when I am having a conversation with a male coworker or friend, it seems to me that I spend a lot of time briefly focusing on parts of their body - not because I'm interested in their body, but in order to break eye contact at regular intervals. I find that when I'm talking to women, it is occasionally difficult to look in the "right" direction. Prolonged eye contact is still uncomfortable, and my natural inclination is to break eye contact and look at the body of whoever I'm speaking with (again, not because of interest in their body, but simply to put my eyes somewhere other than the face). I resist that inclination when speaking with women because I don't want to appear to be ogling, so frequently I end up looking away from the person I'm speaking with, even though this may come across as rude.

I point this out not to make any sort of claim like "oh, you're just being overly sensitive; men aren't staring at your chest, they're just being non-threatening by avoiding eye contact;" I know that every woman knows when she is being ogled. I am, however, curious about the professed desire to have someone look directly into your eyes when speaking to you. Doesn't this make you feel uncomfortable or threatened?

[0+] Author Profile Page alixana replied to Unequivocal :

I don't know about that, it drives me crazy when I'm talking to someone and they keep looking away - whether it's to look at my boobs or something over my shoulder.

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to alixana :

I have asperger's and I actually can't make eye contact for very long without losing my concentration and becoming extremely anxious. I know it annoys some people (that's usually when I get the creepy old men saying "aw, are you shy sweetie?"), but I need to be able to concentrate on what I'm saying in a stressful situation. I don't think that's uncommon.
Unequivocal: instead of looking at people's bodies I tend to look around at eye level, like at the wall behind them or at their forehead.

I do the same thing occasionally (look at someone's face, or slightly up and to the right). The issue for me isn't an inability to maintain eye contact though (I can do this without problem if the situation calls for it), but rather a desire to keep the other person comfortable, and not come across as either threatening or overly intense.

I'd be interested to hear what other people view as an appropriate level of eye contact, and where they feel the gaze should go when eye contact is broken. I suspect that we would find some heavily socialized gender differences in terms of preference. I know that for me, what feels comfortable is for my conversational partner to make occasional eye contact (particularly when one of us is actually speaking) and then look away during periods of silence as responses are being formulated.

To me steady eye contact (or even steady, unbroken focus on my face) demonstrates a level of intensity that doesn't seem appropriate for most casual conversations.

[0+] Author Profile Page conductress replied to Unequivocal :

This is really interesting. I have a problem maintaining eye contact- it makes me really nervous, whether it involves a man or a woman. I tend to assume, though, that if a person maintains eye contact with me too intensely (and, yes, I can generally tell when someone has crossed not just my comfort line, but a more general line) that it's not intended to be threatening, but that the person simply isn't very aware of what they're doing. Unless they've given me other reasons to think that they're being threatening (leering at my body, tone of voice, etc), I don't read too much into it. That said, I suspect you're right about gender differences. Off the top of my head, most of the people I know who don't maintain eye contact well are women and most of the people who have made way too much eye contact are men. Again, I didn't read this as threatening, because they were friends who had given me no reason to think that. But it does seem to be indicative of male assertiveness and perhaps also lack of awareness about personal boundaries/social graces.

[0+] Author Profile Page alixana replied to Stephanie1989 :

That's kind of rude that people comment on it - while it annoys me, I DEFINITELY don't say anything!

[0+] Author Profile Page Lydia Encyclopedia replied to Stephanie1989 :

I have Asperger Syndrome too, and I've learned that rather than making direct eye contact, I like to focus on a spot between the eyes, like the bridge of the nose or beginning of the forehead as well. I never look anyplace below the neck on either men or women, since I know I'd feel uncomfortable with that kind of stare.

[0+] Author Profile Page conductress replied to Stephanie1989 :

I agree. Prolonged eye contact makes me really nervous, and not necessarily due to gendered aspects (although sometimes that obviously compounds it). I know quite a few of my friends have the same problem. So I tend to assume that if someone's not looking me in the eyes (well, when I notice, since I'm probably not looking them in the eyes), they have a similar problem with eye contact. Unless I see them leering at some part of my body or staring distractedly at something or someone else, I assume that it's not done with nasty intentions.

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to conductress :

Yeah I'm seriously not trying to be rude or annoy people, I just find prolonged eye contact (beyond while shaking hands and occasional glances) to be extremely uncomfortable and nerve-wracking. I do try to look near or at the person's face, but either way I definitely tend not to notice peoples' bodies at all.

I also know that there is relatively strong social conditioning against prolonged eye contact, which is frequently seen as threatening or dominant behavior.

I thought about that after I posted.

It's kind of sloppy of me, but I tend to use the "my eyes are up here/make eye contact" as a general reference to at least look at my face.

Some people do find it hard to make eye contact and, depending on where they were raised, it may be a taboo.

Frankly, as long as people are hovering somewhere above the shoulders, it's good.

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to sangetencre :

Yeah I really don't see why it's considered so hard to look at womens' faces when they have large breasts...I mean I can see it being more difficult not to look if I was attracted to women, but I quite honestly don't even notice what size someone's boobs are...I'm vaguely aware, but I've never really looked at them...I just don't see why it's a "thing" at all. Sure, I'd like larger boobs, but who gives a shit what size someone else's are?

Same here.


The idea of divorcing a body part from the person it belongs to or making the person a secondary ("tits with a woman behind them") entity is really flippin' skeevy to me.

And I shouldn't be, but I'm still amazed that it's so damned prevalent.

A person is more than just their individual parts? Get out! *sigh*


(...As I recall the Disembodied Things series over on Shakesville.)

[0+] Author Profile Page Kat said:

I think an interesting point that this post touches on but doesn't go deep into is the way that certain female bodies become more acceptable for public commentary and discussion and criticism, and breast size is a huge part of that. Many men and women completely separate large breasts from the body and personality of the woman who has them.

For example, I had a friend who casually mentioned to me and another girl that although she didn't want breast implants, she didn't see anything wrong with it if you got them when you were an adult (her example was an woman who had several children) if you thought it would boost your self esteem. Friend B went on an extended rant about her dislike of plastic surgery, how unnecessary it was, about how people should embrace themselves, and how she thought it was great that Friend A had smaller breasts, even though the original friend had not mentioned that she wanted breast implants. Literally a few weeks later, while changing with the same friends, I told one girl that I loved her bra and how annoying it was that I can't find more cute bras in my size. Without a pause and with a weirdly nasty tone, my vehemently anti plastic surgery friend said "Why don't you just get the reduced if it's such a problem?" None of her previous consideration of the dangers or social implications of surgery, no assumption that I liked my breasts or thought they looked nice beyond being difficult to size. Just a suggestion that I should "just" cut them right off if they didn't fit into some bras, as if surgery was something that wouldn't effect me or my breasts weren't an actual part of my body.

Another very strange example is gay men touching my breasts while commenting how large they are. I've had it happen THREE TIMES at parties. It's always treated as a joke, like since they don't like breasts they're free to just handle them, but I have never seen or heard of this happening to a friend with smaller breasts, or a gay man simply reaching out and grabbing a strange woman's ass "since I've never felt one before!"

[0+] Author Profile Page Kat replied to Kat :

Now that I think about it, I've also had another woman I didn't know well grab my breasts as well.


I'm curious what type of shirt indicates that I want strangers to poke or grab my breasts and then act like what they did was cut and charming, because I've being wearing a different shirt every time this happened.

[0+] Author Profile Page Honeybee replied to Kat :

Only one?

OMG I've had so many women (usually female friends) touch mine it's crazy. Usually they ask first - which is weird because I never know what to say - but still. I've discussed this with other well endowed women and we all talk about how many of our friends are so keen to touch them.

I do get it mostly though. Fact is most people, regardless of gender or sexual orientation like breasts. I know I do. I look at other women too, I'm not oblivious, but it is just a bit awkward sometimes you know? And throw in drinking and they don't even ask sometimes, they just feel away.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kat replied to Honeybee :

"I do get it mostly though. Fact is most people, regardless of gender or sexual orientation like breasts. I know I do. "

The fact that people like breasts doesn't make me "get it." I love so many body parts on so many different people, but I've never felt compelled or acted on the urge to stroke someone's face or hair or nice calves because I liked that body part. I'm sure men who grope women on the subway do it because they like them, but that doesn't make it understandable. Especially a stranger. Even if I tell someone I think they are pretty or they have great arms, I won't reach out and start rubbing and squeezing them unless I know them well and the environment is appropriate. Even drunk I manage not to grab strangers without permission.

[0+] Author Profile Page Honeybee replied to Kat :

I don't really know why you replied to me with this comment. I never said anything - nor did anyone else in this thread - about groping strangers. That's crossing a whole other line.

When I said I "get it", I meant that I get the fact that people like boobs. Doesn't mean I condone making comments let alone groping. Just that I understand liking them and thus can understand them getting *some* attention. But that attention should be within reason, publically at least.

[0+] Author Profile Page Kat replied to Honeybee :

"I do get it mostly though. Fact is most people, regardless of gender or sexual orientation like breasts. I know I do. "

The fact that people like breasts doesn't make me "get it." I love so many body parts on so many different people, but I've never felt compelled or acted on the urge to stroke someone's face or hair or nice calves because I liked that body part. Well... obviously I have, but not at random with a person I don't know! I'm sure men who grope women on the subway do it because they like them, but that doesn't make it understandable. Especially a stranger. Even if I tell someone I think they are pretty or they have great arms, I won't reach out and start rubbing and squeezing them unless I know them well and the environment is appropriate. Even drunk I manage not to grab strangers without permission.

I actually find that the assumption that a man's gay often gives him carte blanche to touch women. I have seen gay men grab women's asses just because you know, they're into guys so that makes it okay.

In college, I had a close friend who labeled himself as gay. During our senior year, he said that he'd never been gay. He'd always been bi, but being gay gave him more freedom around women. I suppose that made me very sensitive to gay men feeling free to comment on and/or touch women's bodies (which I've had happen quite often).

It's not just breasts either. It's shoes or hair or makeup. Somehow some gay men seem to think their sexual preference gives them the option to comment openly, even saying really hurtful things, about others' appearances. It's very odd to me because gay men I barely know will comment on my appearance when my circle of close female friends don't because we just never talk about those sorts of things.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tabitha said:

Just giving my two cents...

When I was younger, I was not well endowed. But men still looked. A gift of getting a bit older is a bigger bustline. But hold on, I'm just a C, not that big at all.

Here's the deal. Clothes tend not to be made for anyone over a B. Size large is tight on me (an xtra large is weirdly proportioned for me). And I don't think anyone has mentioned current fashion trends. So many seemingly professional looking dresses and blouses are really low cut. I spend a lot of time strategically placing safety pins.

Even in a shirt cut just below the collarbone, I have cleavage. I don't see it as a good or bad thing--it's part of being a woman.

Making a woman feel guilty for her WOMAN PARTS is emblamatic of misogyny--how could it not be?

It's funny, because I remember reading something that said the average bust size nowadays (in the US, at least) is a C cup.

I don't see clothing so much reflecting that.

Of course, I could make the argument that clothing never reflects non-model female bodies.

But I digress.


Here's the deal. Clothes tend not to be made for anyone over a B. Size large is tight on me (an xtra large is weirdly proportioned for me). And I don't think anyone has mentioned current fashion trends. So many seemingly professional looking dresses and blouses are really low cut. I spend a lot of time strategically placing safety pins.


Gods, yes.

My biggest peeve right now is women's button down shirts--they always seem to gape right over the swell of the bust and no one seems to realize that maybe a button in that section would do wonders...


Making a woman feel guilty for her WOMAN PARTS is emblamatic of misogyny--how could it not be?

Seriously.

I've had moments where I've wondered if I might have offended someone by wearing a tank top because maybe it showed a bit too much cleavage.

And I've had to stop myself to ask why should someone be offended by my body and why the hell should I be worrying about whether they're offended.

[0+] Author Profile Page NellieBlyArmy replied to sangetencre :

I would kill for a button down shirt that fit me everywhere. Big enough in the chest? Baggy everywhere else. Fits everywhere else? You can see my bra through the gaps between the buttons when I turn sideways.

"And I've had to stop myself to ask why should someone be offended by my body and why the hell should I be worrying about whether they're offended."

Oh man...I so feel you it's not even funny. *hugs*

I HATE going clothes shopping any more - it's just depressing. I've got like a size 10 waist, size 16ish boobs (32F, although I'm beginning to wonder if I need to go up a size, sigh), and then like...12 hips, I think? It is IMPOSSIBLE to find anything that fits anywhere, button downs are the worst! I'm all pissy about this right now, actually, just because I went clothes shopping yesterday and found one SKIRT that fit me, because of my boobs, nothing else fit. I have to get a button-up shirt for a temp job before Monday and I have no freaking idea where to find one that'll fit. I've been digging through the sale section at Bravissimo online - I'd love to buy from them more often but I don't have the $ for it, as is I've found maybe two tops I can afford from the sale section. Bah.

Sorry, I totally went off on a rant there, but I very much feel your pain Pheobe! Even worse are the girls who are like "Oh, you're so lucky!". Yeah, the intense back pain is great, as is never being able to wear anything strapless or halter or spaghetti strapped, never being able to find clothes that fit, and nobody EVER making eye contact. It's AWESOME.

[0+] Author Profile Page leshachikha replied to Tabitha :

I empathize.

I'm a 32D, and quite short (5'2"). When you have big breasts, a smallish waist, and really short legs, it all just fits together oddly. It's very difficult for me to buy dresses because I'm a size 3 below the ribcage and, like, a size 10 in the bust. 100% of the time, I need to get it tailored.

Why on earth are clothes sized so oddly? I'm of a low-normal BMI, so I can't even begin to imagine the difficulties that plus-size women must have. There are just so few women who are 5'8", 125lbs, and B-cupped with medium hips.

At any rate, back to the matter at hand. I get comments all the time, since I'm kind of comically proportioned. I tolerate it from my close friends (and am sometimes amused by it), but I just can't stand it from acquaintances or strangers. I'm really bad at articulating my discomfort, so I usually take it awkwardly and try to change the subject instead of calling the person out...

I'd just like to say that when I was in 8th grade I had a C cup and wore baggy black t-shirts all the time. I still got comment after comment about how big I was. Today I'm in a catholic high-school, have a D cup, and I wear, just like everyone else, the uniform gray polo shirt. Totally covered, and I STILL hear things. I get comments from MY MOM. And it is ANNOYING. I like my boobs and all but Good God. I totally hear you and I loved this post. No matter what, your boobs are going to be there and we've been aware of their existence since we were eight. We don't need other people telling us about parts of our anatomy. Yeah, we get it. They're there, stop treating them like a novelty item or some sort of main attraction, the main attraction is higher (it's the round thing with that opening from which words come out sometimes and the majority of my sensory receptors are located.

While we're on the subject, I wonder about chicks who, like myself, are also endowed in the lower region. I get a lot of comments in that area too, most of the time meant as a joke, but it gets old. Like, really, I get that it sticks out but it's where I shit from, not exactly the most pleasant area of my body and it does not require your comments.

Though really, I'd rather have you just look at me overall and appreciate who I am overall instead of dehumanizing me to the point where I'm just one or one set of specific body parts.

[0+] Author Profile Page liv79 said:

Some of the comments above got me thinking about dress codes and how gendered they are. Most dress codes I've been subjected to, there are several lines about women's clothing, and one or two about acceptable shirts for men. Is that because there is such variation in women's clothing ie. 3/4 sleeves, tank tops, collard shirts, capri pants, et al. or is it more about controlling the uncontrollable lady parts? I can never tell.

[0+] Author Profile Page Stephanie1989 replied to liv79 :

I've been thinking about that too. At first I was offended there were so many more guidelines for women, but now I do believe it's because it is considered acceptable for women to wear a much larger variety of clothing in different settings. The level of skin that men are socially allowed to expose is basically just lower arms and calves at the most, whereas women can have different skirt and short lengths and amounts of cleavage exposure where there are very different expectations for different settings.

[0+] Author Profile Page bdbuck said:

Amen, sister. Fuck you, antifeminist tit commenters.

Also, way to reclaim your body and own your sexuality.

[0+] Author Profile Page PatriarchySlayer said:

This post has been so therapeutic. I am a 40J...yes this actually exists. Actually I think they even make K's..but I have yet to find one. My chest has been the biggest source of body problems..back pains, shoulder indentations, sores, shoulder pains, etc. Not to mention never being able to find a decent bra, or decent clothes. Even when I do get the "compliments" about my chest, I mostly hate my breasts so much that I don't get to enjoy any compliments in that area at all. (And by the way whenever a guy hits on me, that's the only thing they talk about. It's wonderful. I actually told one guy recently that I was thinking of having a breast reduction just to see what he would say. He told me he would never like me if I didn't have big breasts. Real classy guy.)

So yes, I agree with what everyone is saying. It must be hard to be on the other end of the endowed spectrum, however I have given this a lot of thought. You can go braless in public, wear almost any kind of shirt you want, your breasts have a better chance of maintaining their gravity-friendliness, no back pains, possibly less guys oggling you, and the best part is that they don't get in the way. Any kind of exercise/sport is a challenge. There are a lot of things I can't do because I have so much in the way. And trust me there are days when I want to give up. It's exhausting.

When will we be happy with what we've got?

Freakin' wow. I clicked because I was going to leave a simple comment of "Ha!" as I find this post hilarious in its witty brevity and sarcastic but dead-on style. A kudos, that is.

Instead I find what I somehow never suspected - comments full of blame-the-vic mentality. The thing is, I don't think it's a "surprise"...but, really, it shouldn't have to happen. Poor, poor men can't control themselves in the presence of the foul-temptress woman and her too-powerful sexuality. How many sexist tropes do you want me to dish out? I have a cabinet full of them somewhere - I could keep'em coming all day.
Honestly, though, should a woman have to deal with this sort of incessant commenting because she wears a certain fuckin' shirt? How many times d'ya think men hear "Well, my gosh! Isn't your penis large!" other than in porn? It's a double-standard, keep up! That I'm pointing this out and where I'm pointing this out seems ridiculous to me. Being on the opposite side of the breast-spectrum (rather small - but not complaining), I've had my fair-fuckin-share of comments about the apparently lack-luster size of mine with no regard for what I happen to be wearing.

Should she also, then, be subjected to the creeps who take a picture with their camera phone of women's cleavage from above while on crowded buses?

...didn't mean to post it twice...

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

[0+] Author Profile Page a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi said:

Umm, don't know if my situation is at all unique, BUT the big-busted women I know all talk about their OWN boobs fairly often.

They're PROUD of them. And of how men like them. Which doesn't mean they deserve dehumanizing comments. But they, in their own turn, are not terribly sensitive towards us totally flat-chested gals.

It seems like such a common meme in our culture now for men AND women to say "real men like curves"... which is just as dehumanizing to skinny people. Another thing I'm really tired of hearing is that "clothes are made for skinny people". Not true, actually! Most models have clothespins in the back during photo shoots to make clothes fit them nicely. Clothes are more made for people with a certain waist to hip ratio, which is closer to average (or, more than what most models have). It's a problem with mass-produced clothes, sure, that they're only going to fit a certain percentage well -but it's not as simple as clothes being made for models...

*Sigh* why are people so competitive/cruel?

I'm so sick of this attitude. I encounter it all the time. Sometimes I feel like my mere presence is an insult to girls with small boobs, and if anything, smaller women talk about big boobs just as much as the large-breasted talk about it themselves. I hear women making passive-aggressive comments about how they "wouldn't want big/gross/saggy/floppy boobs anyway." Or that they're happy to know that they got everything they have in life on their own merit, and not just because of preferential treatment. Talk about insensitive! Just because my breast size fits a socially-constructed ideal does not mean it doesn't hurt to hear comments about how disgusting my chest is, even if I know the person making such comments is just lashing out. And my big boobs did not "get" me anything more than what your small ones did for you. No one is competing with you! It's not cruel for a large-busted woman to talk about her boobs and being proud of your own breasts should not be offensive to other people.

I'm so sick of this ridiculous "woe is me and it's all your fault for having big boobs" attitude. I encounter it all the time. Sometimes I feel like my mere presence is an insult to girls with small boobs, and if anything, smaller women talk about big boobs just as much as the large-breasted talk about it themselves. I hear women making passive-aggressive comments about how they "wouldn't want big/gross/saggy/floppy boobs anyway." Or that they're happy to know that they got everything they have in life on their own merit, and not just because of preferential treatment. Talk about insensitive! Just because my breast size fits a socially-constructed ideal does not mean it doesn't hurt to hear comments about how disgusting my chest is, even if I know the person making such comments is just lashing out. And my big boobs did not "get" me anything more than what your small ones did for you. No one is competing with you! It's not cruel for a large-busted woman to talk about her boobs and being proud of your own breasts should not be offensive to other people.

I'm so sick of this ridiculous "woe is me and it's all your fault for having big boobs" attitude. I encounter it all the time. Sometimes I feel like my mere presence is an insult to girls with small boobs, and if anything, smaller women talk about big boobs just as much as the large-breasted talk about it themselves. I hear women making passive-aggressive comments about how they "wouldn't want big/gross/saggy/floppy boobs anyway." Or that they're happy to know that they got everything they have in life on their own merit, and not just because of preferential treatment. Talk about insensitive! Just because my breast size fits a socially-constructed ideal does not mean it doesn't hurt to hear comments about how disgusting my chest is, even if I know the person making such comments is just lashing out. And my big boobs did not "get" me anything more than what your small ones did for you. No one is competing with you! It's not cruel for a large-busted woman to talk about her boobs and being proud of your own breasts should not be offensive to other people.

I'm so sick of this ridiculous "woe is me and it's all your fault for having big boobs" attitude. I encounter it all the time. Sometimes I feel like my mere presence is an insult to girls with small boobs, and if anything, smaller women talk about big boobs just as much as the large-breasted talk about it themselves. I hear women making passive-aggressive comments about how they "wouldn't want big/gross/saggy/floppy boobs anyway." Or that they're happy to know that they got everything they have in life on their own merit, and not just because of preferential treatment. Talk about insensitive! Just because my breast size fits a socially-constructed ideal does not mean it doesn't hurt to hear comments about how disgusting my chest is, even if I know the person making such comments is just lashing out. And my big boobs did not "get" me anything more than what your small ones did for you. No one is competing with you! It's not cruel for a large-busted woman to talk about her boobs and being proud of your own breasts should not be offensive to other people.

[0+] Author Profile Page NellieBlyArmy replied to a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi :

I find that talking about one's own breasts corresponds to insecurity, not cup size. I guess among my friends it trended towards people with larger breasts, but they were also heavier and often verbally insecure about their weight.

[0+] Author Profile Page NellieBlyArmy replied to a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi :

I find that people who talk about their own breasts tend to do it out of insecurity. In my friend group it did tend to be people with larger breasts (but not exclusively). They were also people who often talked about being insecure about their weight. It was pretty clear that they felt they had socially unacceptable bodies, so they were focusing on the feature that is seen as "good."

[0+] Author Profile Page NellieBlyArmy replied to a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi :

I find that people who talk about their own breasts tend to do it out of insecurity. In my friend group it did tend to be people with larger breasts (but not exclusively). They were also heavier people who often talked about being insecure about their weight. It was pretty clear that they felt they had socially unacceptable bodies, so they were focusing on the feature that is seen as "good." It can be obnoxious, but it's probably not about your body or flat-chestedness at all.

I do agree that the "real men like curves" thing is damaging crap, but your comment is kind of coming across like someone who found out years ago that they can't have kids, so they freak anytime someone mentions a baby. It doesn't sound like these women are insulting you, just talking about their own bodies, probably while oblivious that you have issues with your figure. Have you tried telling them that their comments about men preferring the way they look makes you feel like they're putting you down? Again, they probably have no idea.

[0+] Author Profile Page NellieBlyArmy replied to NellieBlyArmy :

Sorry about the multiple posts, it kept telling me my post hadn't submitted, and when I hit refresh they weren't there, either.

[0+] Author Profile Page B said:

I'm so sick of this ridiculous "woe is me and it's all your fault for having big boobs" attitude. I encounter it all the time. Sometimes I feel like my mere presence is an insult to girls with small boobs, and if anything, smaller women talk about big boobs just as much as the large-breasted talk about it themselves. I hear women making passive-aggressive comments about how they "wouldn't want big/gross/saggy/floppy boobs anyway." Or that they're happy to know that they got everything they have in life on their own merit, and not just because of preferential treatment. Talk about insensitive! Just because my breast size fits a socially-constructed ideal does not mean it doesn't hurt to hear comments about how disgusting my chest is, even if I know the person making such comments is just lashing out. And my big boobs did not "get" me anything more than what your small ones did for you. No one is competing with you! It's not cruel for a large-busted woman to talk about her boobs and being proud of your own breasts should not be offensive to other people.

[0+] Author Profile Page sarah replied to B :

I hate that so much. I totally get what you're saying.

[0+] Author Profile Page Jacqueline said:

I used to be a 36DDD prior to a breast reduction surgery. I had been considering this surgery for years but was never really serious until I learned that people used to refer to me as "big boobs jac" and such. I mean, I put up with the comments from guys and girls, strangers and friends, for years. And I put up with never finding clothes that fit properly and I gave up wearing dresses all together, not to mention gave up running. But when I found out that not only was I having to put up with all this to my face, but that I had these demeaning nicknames from guy friends, I had had enough. I felt I had literally been reduced to nothing but my breasts and I was not ok with that. I remember talking to my parents about it, and my mom crying and saying, "I want people to think about your smile when they think about you, not your boobs." So yea, I had a reduction 3 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. I became even more aware of how much people had been looking at my boobs after I had the surgery, because for the first time I suddenly noticed people actually looking me in the eyes and at my face and it felt good. I never realized how bad it even was until I didn't have to put up with it anymore.

Nobody should ever have to put up with rude comments about their breasts (or any other aspect of their body), and nobody (especially women!) should judge another woman for showing her breasts; when they are that disproportionately large, there isn't anything you can do to hide them (even t-shirts "show them off"). It absolutely infuriates me that there are WOMEN on a FEMINIST site judging and blaming other women for their large breasts or for "showing them off". If anything, women should be supportive of other's feelings and bodies and least of all, refrain from judgment.

[0+] Author Profile Page Jacqueline said:

I used to be a 36DDD prior to a breast reduction surgery. I had been considering this surgery for years but was never really serious until I learned that people used to refer to me as "big boobs jac" and such. I mean, I put up with the comments from guys and girls, strangers and friends, for years. And I put up with never finding clothes that fit properly and I gave up wearing dresses all together, not to mention gave up running. But when I found out that not only was I having to put up with all this to my face, but that I had these demeaning nicknames from guy friends, I had had enough. I felt I had literally been reduced to nothing but my breasts and I was not ok with that. I remember talking to my parents about it, and my mom crying and saying, "I want people to think about your smile when they think about you, not your boobs." So yea, I had a reduction 3 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. I became even more aware of how much people had been looking at my boobs after I had the surgery, because for the first time I suddenly noticed people actually looking me in the eyes and at my face and it felt good. I never realized how bad it even was until I didn't have to put up with it anymore.

Nobody should ever have to put up with rude comments about their breasts (or any other aspect of their body), and nobody (especially women!) should judge another woman for showing her breasts; when they are that disproportionately large, there isn't anything you can do to hide them (even t-shirts "show them off"). It absolutely infuriates me that there are WOMEN on a FEMINIST site judging and blaming other women for their large breasts or for "showing them off". If anything, women should be supportive of other's feelings and bodies and least of all, refrain from judgment.

[0+] Author Profile Page Jacqueline said:

I used to be a 36DDD prior to a breast reduction surgery. I had been considering this surgery for years but was never really serious until I learned that people used to refer to me as "big boobs jac" and such. I mean, I put up with the comments from guys and girls, strangers and friends, for years. And I put up with never finding clothes that fit properly and I gave up wearing dresses all together, not to mention gave up running. But when I found out that not only was I having to put up with all this to my face, but that I had these demeaning nicknames from guy friends, I had had enough. I felt I had literally been reduced to nothing but my breasts and I was not ok with that. I remember talking to my parents about it, and my mom crying and saying, "I want people to think about your smile when they think about you, not your boobs." So yea, I had a reduction 3 years ago and it was the best decision I ever made. I became even more aware of how much people had been looking at my boobs after I had the surgery, because for the first time I suddenly noticed people actually looking me in the eyes and at my face and it felt good. I never realized how bad it even was until I didn't have to put up with it anymore.

Nobody should ever have to put up with rude comments about their breasts (or any other aspect of their body), and nobody (especially women!) should judge another woman for showing her breasts; when they are that disproportionately large, there isn't anything you can do to hide them (even t-shirts "show them off"). It absolutely infuriates me that there are WOMEN on a FEMINIST site judging and blaming other women for their large breasts or for "showing them off". If anything, women should be supportive of other's feelings and bodies and least of all, refrain from judgment.

[0+] Author Profile Page Liza said:

Um...I love you. In a totally not creepy or online-stalker-ish way. :)

34G here, by the way. My size has rendered it impossible to find bras at all unless I go to expensive specialty stores or online. Figleaves.com is my new best friend because they have a decent return policy and are less expensive than, say, Linda the Bra Lady or the evil Intimacy.

By the way, I want it both ways. I want to be able to be proud of my boobs and flaunt them when I want to without receiving inappropriate comments.

Oh, and yes, comments do come about other body parts. I dared to venture out in a skirt and heels yesterday and was oh-so-kindly informed that my legs are "juicy." Thanks, creepy dude on 14th St. *eyeroll*

[0+] Author Profile Page Liza said:

Um...I love you. In a totally not creepy or online-stalker-ish way. :)

34G here, by the way. My size has rendered it impossible to find bras at all unless I go to expensive specialty stores or online. Figleaves.com is my new best friend because they have a decent return policy and are less expensive than, say, Linda the Bra Lady or the evil Intimacy.

By the way, I want it both ways. I want to be able to be proud of my boobs and flaunt them when I want to without receiving inappropriate comments.

Oh, and yes, comments do come about other body parts. I dared to venture out in a skirt and heels yesterday and was oh-so-kindly informed that my legs are "juicy." Thanks, creepy dude on 14th St. *eyeroll*

[0+] Author Profile Page Phoebe replied to Liza :

I love you too. In the same exact way. :)

I'm sorry you've had to deal with that shit! Stay strong, girl!

[0+] Author Profile Page a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi said:

B,

You are projecting as much, if not MORE than I am. I never said in my post that I think big boobs are disgusting, and yet you seem to be blaming me for the times you've heard women say that.

I said I was talking specifically about the women I KNOW who have big boobs, and that they talk about them and seem quite proud of them. I did not say that this applies to all large-chested women. My sister and my adult cousin, in particular, like to talk about how men like their breasts. My cousin used to talk about how her boyfriend was so glad to be with her because his ex had small breasts. My sister, in particular, likes to make fun of me for being small-busted.

I said that I don't know why people are so competitive and cruel, meaning ALL people, in general. I wasn't saying it's any one kind of woman who is competitive -I meant there are women of all sorts of body types who are competitive and cruel... I don't think ANY of it is good.

[0+] Author Profile Page dallas12 said:

Lets face it. We are in a sexual culture and we are sexual beings. I do notice attractive men. I even notice what part of their bodies I find attractive. HOWEVER, never in a million years would I go up to them and feel the need to inform them of my thoughts. These thoughts don't overwhelm me and there are other things to talk about besides how yummy a particular man's behind is.

I expect the same in return. Yes, I have big boobs. I am 5 foot 3, 110 pounds with a very full D. They look even bigger because the rest of me is so small. Often, unless I have a turtleneck on, I have cleavage showing. I image that people notice this. Hell, I don't mind that people notice, BUT like I said before. Lets move on from it. I don't need to hear that you like my boobs. Good for you.

[0+] Author Profile Page Liza replied to dallas12 :

EXACTLY.

I would never expect someone to not notice when they think another person is attractive. What I expect is to be treated with respect regardless of what someone thinks of my appearance.

[0+] Author Profile Page a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi said:

Too, while I imagine this might be something of a personal preference, I can say that I went through a period in my life as a teenager where I was considered very unattractive, in general, and then later a period where I was apparently attractive enough to warrant inappropriate, objectifying comments, and sometimes being asked out.

While I agree women shouldn't have to put up with either objectification or insults, and wouldn't, in a fair world, I honestly think the sexual objectification feels a lot better than simply being ignored or considered ugly.

But that is just in my experience.

[0+] Author Profile Page Marcus said:

If you're overly sensitive about people noticing your appearance, then it isn't your cleavage that invites debasing comments, it's insecurity.

"And even if I did wear low-cut shirts every single day, your argument puts all the responsibility of OTHER PEOPLE NOT MAKING INSULTING COMMENTS on me."

You do not have complete autonomy over who gets to treat like a brain in a jar and who gets to treat you like a sexual creature, some days the wires get crossed. Realize the comments were inspired by an effect you had on the person. Explain clearly and confidently that those comments are inappropriate and not appreciated.

If you're serious about this, be frank and direct. If you overreact or bite your tongue until you can post something vengeful, nobody is going to treat you differently.

[0+] Author Profile Page sarah replied to Marcus :

OH PLEASE.

[0+] Author Profile Page Phoebe replied to Marcus :

Hi, Marcus! I think I just replied to you over on Women's Glib. Unless there are two of you.

If you're overly sensitive about people noticing your appearance, then it isn't your cleavage that invites debasing comments, it's insecurity.

So strangers on the street see me and immediately discover how "insecure" I am, and THAT'S what makes them comment? Not because of the size of my breasts? Okay. Got it. I didn't know.

Realize the comments were inspired by an effect you had on the person. Explain clearly and confidently that those comments are inappropriate and not appreciated.

That's good advice. That's usually what I do.

If you're serious about this, be frank and direct. If you overreact or bite your tongue until you can post something vengeful, nobody is going to treat you differently.

This post is more therapeutic than vengeful, I think. It was essentially a way I could put everything I'd ever said to anyone or thought about regarding this topic into one place. And share it with people that might be dealing with the same thing.

This was kind of long-winded, but I thought it was important I addressed your post, because I think you may be misunderstanding why I wrote this/misinterpreting who I am as a person.

[0+] Author Profile Page a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi said:

Marcus,

You are a man.

Therefore, you do not know what it is like to deal with the prevalence of the comments directed towards women. Or the kind of reaction women often get for speaking out against said comments...

But thank you for your condescension. God knows women need men to tell them what to do *eyeroll*

when i was skinny, my life was hell.
at 12, i was wearing a 32FF.

seriously - i am 5'8", i weighed 125-130 through out high school. i looked like a fucking Barbie. and i was in every AP class, had a straight 4.0 (or higher, because some AP classes are on a 5. scale) and yet everyone, EVERYONE, made these comments ALL THE TIME about how i used my tits to get good grades..

because OBVIOUSLY a woman's intellegence is inverserly proportional to her cup size. didn't matter that i got perfect scores on every test, that i got a 1580 on my SATs, that i won a dozen scholorships - EVERYthing i got, i got because i had large breasts. at least, thats what everyone said.
also, everyone always talked about what a "slut" i was, because if i had large breasts i MUST be sleeping with everyone. (i had 1 boyfriend in my first highscool. moved for the last year, dated one guy for a bit, and that was it for high school lovelife)
after i was out of high school... i didn't go to college for another decade. i had started to believe everyone, i was afraid to go to college and find out that i WASN'T smart, that everyone had given me good grades because of my breasts (was there EVER a stupider fear? i KNOW how smart i am; i proved it BEFORE puberty). i decided i would gain 15 pounds, so i would look less like a Barbie.

of course, that meant that i gained like 80 pounds. but in the course of losing some of it (i now weigh 180, which is an ok weight, but i am shooting for 150)i went down to just a single F. everyone keeps asking me if i've had breast reduction surgery. ??? if i had, i would be a C, not an F.

some years ago, i was at a club, talking to a girl who had had the reduction surgery. a guy had been eavesdropping, and decided to come over and A)tell the woman that she was "evil" for getting the reduction and "destroying the body God gave her", and B) that *I* should not get it, breast were beautiful! i said "well, what about your girlfriend?" he said she had the most beautiful breasts, even if they were only a D cup. i said "BUT, she had surgery to get them, those are implants, SHE destroyed the body God gave HER", at which point he got pissed and told me God intended ALL women to have large breasts, thats why humanity was *allowed* to do all that plastic surgery - to give women large breasts so that men can look at them.
the whole thing was just fucked up. this guy, whom i BARELY knew, was casting MORAL JUDGEMENTS based on whether or not people were getting breast reductions or breast implants.

the. FUCK.

i haven't gotten a reduction because i have had too many surgeries, i am afraid of having another. that is the only reason aside from money.

i would KILL for just a D cup.

because i am sick of people assuming my accomplishments happen soley because of my breasts. its beyond insulting.

[0+] Author Profile Page a.k.a. Ninapendamaishi replied to denelian.livejournal.com :

I guess some might say this isn't relevant.

But I must admit I'm curious:

Do you think you would rather be considered unattractive and smart on your own merits?


There HAVE been studies done, actually, which basically show that for BOTH men and women, in general the more conventionally attractive someone is the better chance they have at professional success. People tend to pay more attention to them, be nicer to them, and give them more opportunities. Of course this is just a generality. But, my cousin who is a super-model was part of one of these studies, and well, I really think there's some truth to it. Personally, I've come to acknowledge that MY life is probably easier than someone's who is considered particularly unattractive. I'm not angry about it -I just try to be humble about it... and no, I don't think it's fair.

I'm so sorry. that must be so demoralizing. =(

[0+] Author Profile Page Sarah said:

From about 14 on I've been hearing these comments, and it is so embarrassing. One time I dressed up at Halloween for work (customer service at a grocery store) and while I was doing bottle returns for 3 or 4 college guys my 'friend' and coworker comes up and says HOLY BAJEBUS you have be boobs! Thanks. I just blushed and continued to do my work. For awhile I was hearing at least 2 comments every day about them no matter if I was around friends, coworkers, strangers, peers, family, etc.

[0+] Author Profile Page Sarah said:

I just want to add that you DO NOT need to be wearing a low cut shirt to get the comments. I in fact hide my boobs most of the time and STILL get a million comments.

[0+] Author Profile Page Rebecca_J said:

A well-endowed friend of mine told me that for her, it's either wear a high-cut shirt and have itchy, sweaty cleavage, or wear a more low-cut shirt to be more comfortable but then also have everyone (male and female alike) "talking to her boobs." The reality for her is not "Gee, I feel like having lots of random people staring at/commenting on my boobs today, so I'll wear this low-cut shirt." The reality is "in which way would I prefer to to be uncomfortable today."
And the people commenting about still getting harrassment when, say, wearing a turtleneck, says a lot about the true motivation of such harrassment, even when people protest "oh I meant it as a compliment."
Kind of like when a woman is raped, her clothing choices are dissected with no recognition of the fact that you can be in a burqa and be raped...you can be in your own home with the doors locked and be raped. It's not about men being uncontrollable, it's about them choosing not to control themselves.

[0+] Author Profile Page jjgirl23 said:

I apologize to Phoebe everyone who my original comment offended. It was completely wrong, inappropriate, and out of line. I'm an A-cup so I have a hard time having sympathy for women with large breasts because society tells me that YOU'RE how I should be... but the grass is always greener, eh? Anywho, nobody has any right making a comment about your breasts - especially not other women who claim to be feminists, so I'm really sorry for that.

I hope some of you actually see this comment, I know it was from a week or so ago and is pushed a few pages down in the community already.

[0+] Author Profile Page StillWater said:

For those of you that need a reminder, part of this oppression is the patriarchy's promise to women that if we are good girls (the terms of this agreement may change at any time) we will not be humiliated, beaten, or raped as much as the bad ones. Many of you just upheld that promise here in the comments.


[0+] Author Profile Page mamamilkshake replied to StillWater :

I am not a feminist and I realize my comment will be offensive to most of the posters here, but the ideas presented in this post and the ensuing comments leave me baffled. Why is having enough self-respect for one's self to not turn one's own self into a sex object part of some plan to oppress woman? If a woman doesn't want others to look at her as a sex object, to see her as just her body, shouldn't her values, behavior, and choices in life reflect this? Shouldn't she "walk the talk" and live out her convictions rather than just declare them in speech and blogging?

A large part of why I personally dress modestly and teach my young daughter to do the same is so we are more than our bodies and we aren't placing ourselves on display for all of the world to see. Rather than allow our bodies to define us, our actions, opinions, talents, behavior, and personalities ought to be what's we are judged on and what we display. To receive respect we need to be worthy of respect. For a woman to not be defined as her body she cannot define herself by her body. Additionally, as a religious woman, I also dress modestly out of love & respect for my husband, to honor our marriage and keep what ought to be private private. The prying eyes of the world are not entitled to see my body, so I cover up and have had my life is better for doing so.

With that said, I also find troubling the notion that being told to cover up is oppression while on the front page of this website there exists an article about the so-called oppression of grown women who are legally of the age of consent, choosing to take part in lingerie football which is apparently an evil league that shouldn't exist and a choice these women aren't entitled to. This is not a choice I would make, nor something I would encourage my daughter to do, but by the logic displayed on this post, not a word can be uttered to women about such choices. If baring skin is a right for women, why is it only seen as a right when feminists want it to be, and typically when it works to their advantage?

[0+] Author Profile Page cmmcd472 said:

I want to comment on this discussion. I am 54 years old, workout at the gym and have a body that many 30-year-olds would envy, I am not ashamed of that. I have large breasts and have dealt with leering and ogling my entire life. I dress in good taste and very conservatively, I've never done anything to draw attention to myself. I've become used to having men "talk to my chest" but recently a female co-worker has begun zeroing in on my assets and giving me up and down leers when I arrive at work in the morning; truthfully, it makes my flesh crawl. This is my body and I don't care if you are envious or just what you are thinking when you look at me in that way, deal with it. I have a male manager and finally spoke to him about how uncomfortable it was making me feel. Guess what? This is considered harassment and at my place of employment it's a dismissible offense. Don't assume that well-endowed women enjoy the attention because most of us don't. Think about how having someone make comments and leer at certain parts of your body would make you feel. Everyone needs to be treated with respect, get over it.

[0+] Author Profile Page hotwine said:

Kind of like when a woman is raped, her clothing choices are dissected with no recognition of the fact that you can be in a burqa and be raped...you can be in your own home with the doors locked and be raped. It's not about men being uncontrollable, it's about them choosing not to control themselves. tiffany jewelry Tiffany jewelry

Leave a comment


Search Feministing
About Feministing Community
Feministing Community is a forum for a variety of feminist voices and organizations.
Related Posts
Related Feministing Posts
Upcoming Events
  • Counter Protest to Mass Citizens for Life
    Sunday, 4 October 2009 01:30 PM to 05:30 PM
    Starbucks in Boston Common
    Boston, MA
  • Rethink Afghanistan - Film Screening
    Sunday, 4 October 2009 04:30 PM to 06:30 PM
    Quad Cinema
    New York, NY
  • Activist in Residence: Mona Eltahawy
    Monday, 12 October 2009 07:00 PM to 08:30 PM
    University of Oklahoma, Sam Noble Museum of Natural History
    Norman, OK
  • 6th Annual Benefit to End Domestic Violence Among Youth
    Tuesday, 13 October 2009 06:30 PM to 09:30 PM
    The Bowery Hotel
    New York, NY
  • "Sex Education in the City"
    Tuesday, 13 October 2009 06:30 PM to 08:30 PM
    National Council of Jewish Women
    New York, NY

Recent Community Comments
Feministing As You Like It
Get involved with Feministing by joining our networks on:
Subscribe to Feministing