Trigger Warning
This is dedicated to all the jackass rape deniers and rape apologists out there:
For years and years I thought that what happened to me when I was 17 at my parent's house was rape. I guess I was wrong...
I was not a virgin. So there is no way that the man that forced himself on me could've raped me. Because you cannot rape someone who has had sex before. She is no longer pure and that one act of sex has told men everywhere that she is open and up for sex all the time. So I guess I was not raped.
I was drinking. So there is no way that this sick gross disgusting man could've raped me because I was not entirely sober. It must be assumed that I was drunk and actually wanted to have sex with him. Obviously any girl that has had a few beers when she's under the age of 21 and isn't a virgin isn't someone trustworthy anyway. She must just be a lying drunk slut who wanted it. So I guess I wasn't raped.
I was fooling around with him. So there is no possible way that that piece of shit man could've raped me because I started it all by kissing him first. We had hooked up before so it's no one's fault but my own that he was expecting more this time around. I had never said "No" before to his other advances so he was obviously not familiar with what the term meant. I led him on and then he obviously couldn't stop himself and that's no one's fault but mine. Men cannot be expected to control their actions when aroused. So I guess I wasn't raped.
What a relief it is to finally be free of this horror! All these years having nightmares of this despicable jackass pushing himself on top of me...gagging as he shoved his penis deeper and deeper in my mouth...crying in shame and confusion after he finished and left...good to know none of that was rape.
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I had a similar experience, at a college party. And the first "friend" I asked help from acted like what I was telling wasn`t important -- because hey, I was drunk and hey, I had kissed other men that night and hey, I decided to go the tent (it was a camping party, so everybody had tents) with the guy for sex! How dare I change my mind if the guy suddenly becomes an asshole? And hey, he didn't actually penetrate my vagina -- is it rape when it's in the mouth?
This happened 2 and a half years ago and the reason why I never told anyone else is because I feared I would be treated just like that. "Sluts can't be raped".
Now, everytime someone starts talking about rape news in our e-mail group (I'm a journalism student so we share news with each other) and I see all the mysogyny and slut-shaming in the comments... I know that not saying anything was the right thing.
I wish I could have reported or done something, because I want that guy to realize what he did was rape. Also, I think I should do something to stop him from doing the same thing to other girls.
But, at the same time, I know how powerless we are in this society. I know the whole thing would end in a "he said/she said" structure. And that everybody would doubt me. This (personal) story would run the school and everyone would say things behind my back. I wouldn't be able to deal with that at the age of 18 and I would disappoint my parents (and myself) by leaving the college I studied so much to get into. So now the stupid guy who raped me is walking free. And to this day, I still hate how powerless I am.
Anyway, your post translated exactly how I feel. And, although it's particularly triggering, it denounces just how unfair things are.
I love Twisty Faster's response to this kind of atttiude:
It's shocking to hear it at first, but after you think about it for a minute you realize how true it is. If someone steals your laptop you don't have to prove to anyone that you explicitly told them they couldn't have it. That would be absurd. But access to your body? Yes, to that you have to explicitly and repeatedly say no. Crazy.
I feel for you. I really do. I hope you recover, I also experienced rape, but it wasn't as traumatizing as I'm sure most rapes are. I can only imagine what people who were forced at greater lengths that I was feel. And only a select few people (Hell, make that 2) know. Why?
Because my rape WASN'T rape, much like you!
My rape wasn't actually rape because we were dating. My rape wasn't rape because we had sex before. My rape wasn't rape because we were actually already having sex. My rape wasn't rape because the boy (16) felt like he was going to come, and couldn't get himself off of me, even though it lasted (what seemed like) a good ten minutes longer. My rape wasn't rape because after I tried to push him off and said "I'm done," because it hurt, his reply scared me into staying silent and letting him finish, because my society told me it's more important to please the man I am with than be happy myself.
That was 3 years ago, and while I am able to talk about it sometimes without feeling anything, other times I start bawling. There is another instance I suffered that couldn't have been sexual assault, because it was my fault for getting in a car with a stranger. Dangerous, I know. It's a miracle I'm alive, and it's a miracle he only forced his fingers into me, not his all-powerful penis. The sad thing is, I still blame myself for this one, and am scared to tell anyone for fear they will blame me as well. The only person I've told is my boyfriend, and I don't trust him completely when he says 'it wasn't your fault.'
Hi all. I'm Lara. I don't know why my community post uses my real name and then my comments are under my normal username, but whatever.
This was my first community post here at Feministing although I have commented numerous times here and on the main page. And I've talked about my rape many times as well. I've just been so angry about it lately and about what other people say about "unpure girls" and "drunk girls" and how they cannot be raped. That is exactly what happened to me. And this took place 8 years ago and my memory of that night is still clear as a bell regardless of the alcohol I consumed. I'll never forget it. And it's still hard to sleep some nights because of it.
I never reported it. It would've been impossible to get a conviction. To this day I have good friends that I can tell do not really believe my story. If my best friends don't believe me, how could I convince cops or a jury? Sometimes I feel guilty about not reporting it. I know my rapist has done the same thing to at least one other girl (however I don't know if he did that before or after what happened to me). I've seen him many times since the rape. I've confronted him about it. He's laughed at me. Pretended he didn't know what I was talking about. I cursed him out and walked away. What else could I do?
But it has helped me to talk about it on here, to get my emotions and anger out. Even years later I still hurt and the semi-anonymous venting helps.
You could (anonymously) print out pictures of him and caption them "rapist" with a brief description of what happened and them post them all over your town/campus/whatever.
Probably not the most mature (or legal) response, but it might be cathartic.
yeah, Lara, I'm glad you wrote this, because I feel it's important to admit that we experienced rape.
For a long time, I didn't think it was rape (although it was pretty obvious, duh!). I let this whole "not-rape" discoruse get to me. And I blamed myself a lot. Like: "oh, I wish I didn't drink that much that night". Or "oh, why didn't fight him harder or scream louder? I could have done better than that".
I only admitted it was rape when I started reading feminist literature. It was like a big weight was removed from my shoulders. I finally thought: "yes, it was rape and I did resist as much as I could. Any guy with good intentions wouldn't have wanted to have sex with someone who was refusing like that. It's his fault that he didn't listen to me. It's his fault because he's the one who did it".
Sometimes it's hard to put "I" and "raped" in the same sentence, cuz rape is such an ugly word, isn't it? And it's a horrible thing. But it's the truth. And, although it's hard, I think it's better to call it by its real name.
So thanks again for writing this. I must not have been easy. I thought about it many times, but I think I would never be able to write about my experiences on a community post, for everyone to read, like you did. That took GUTS!
Reading this last comment from you, it's like I wrote some parts of it myself. So, yeah, it feels like I'm not alone.
Lara, I gotta say again that I'm glad you wrote this, because I feel it's important to admit that we experienced rape.
For a long time, I didn't think it was rape (although it was pretty obvious, duh!). I let this whole "not-rape" discoruse get to me. And I blamed myself a lot. Like: "oh, I wish I didn't drink that much that night". Or "oh, why didn't fight him harder or scream louder? I could have done better than that".
I only admitted it was rape when I started reading feminist literature. It was like a big weight was removed from my shoulders. I finally thought: "yes, it was rape and I did resist as much as I could. Any guy with good intentions wouldn't have wanted to have sex with someone who was refusing like that. It's his fault that he didn't listen to me. It's his fault because he's the one who did it".
Sometimes it's hard to put "I" and "raped" in the same sentence, cuz rape is such an ugly word, isn't it? And it's a horrible thing. But it's the truth. And, although it's hard, I think it's better to call it by its real name.
So thanks again for writing this. I must not have been easy. I thought about it many times, but I think I would never be able to write about my experiences on a community post, for everyone to read, like you did. That took GUTS!
Reading this last comment from you, it's like I wrote some parts of it myself. So, yeah, it feels like I'm not alone.
Lara, I gotta say again that I'm glad you wrote this, because I feel it's important to admit that we experienced rape.
For a long time, I didn't think it was rape (although it was pretty obvious, duh!). I let this whole "not-rape" discoruse get to me. And I blamed myself a lot. Like: "oh, I wish I didn't drink that much that night". Or "oh, why didn't fight him harder or scream louder? I could have done better than that".
I only admitted it was rape when I started reading feminist literature. It was like a big weight was removed from my shoulders. I finally thought: "yes, it was rape and I did resist as much as I could. Any guy with good intentions wouldn't have wanted to have sex with someone who was refusing like that. It's his fault that he didn't listen to me. It's his fault because he's the one who did it".
Sometimes it's hard to put "I" and "raped" in the same sentence, cuz rape is such an ugly word, isn't it? And it's a horrible thing. But it's the truth. And, although it's hard, I think it's better to call it by its real name.
So thanks again for writing this. I must not have been easy. I thought about it many times, but I think I would never be able to write about my experiences on a community post, for everyone to read, like you did. That took GUTS!
Reading this last comment from you, it's like I wrote some parts of it myself. So, yeah, it feels like I'm not alone.
Gee, sorry for the multiple comment. It happened when the site was having problems.
The reason why this happens: many people want to think only "loose" women wearing a mini-skirt and walking through an alley drunk at night get raped.
Why?
Because that means that *you* or your friends/family wont get raped. After all, *you* don't walk around alleys at night with a mini skirt so rape must be a rare occurrence.
Otherwise there's the scary realization that *anyone* can get rape. It can happen (and is most likely) to happen in a familiar setting with a familiar person.
But it makes us feel better when we think only one very fantastic type of rape victim exists and rapists are only evil men in ski masks prowling the alleys at nights.
Otherwise your friends might realize that they are not as sage as they think.
Yes there is this constant othering that happens in these types of situations. People want to think it would never happen to them. Only "other" people. Girls are quick to point out "Well, I would never do that, I would never wear that, I would never drink that much," blah blah blah...
On another post up right now entitled "Was it Rape?" I saw some comments questioning the girl's decision to get in the car with a guy she barely knew. As if that's some sort of excuse for rape. Or as if she can't possibly be all innocent because she got in his car. Now, should women accept rides home from guys they only sort of know (even if it's just a few blocks) by themselves? It's probably not a great idea. But I'm sure many women have done this thinking they were actually doing the smart thing (as opposed to walking home alone in the dark). And can we all remember that most people are assaulted by people that they know! Stranger rape is far less common.
Unfortunately now I have a rape mentality (or maybe that is fortunate, but sometimes I feel like it's a prison). That means I think that I may be assaulted at any time so I'm always thinking about how I can protect myself and what's the safest possible way to get somewhere or do something. But not everyone (particularly women who have been fortunate enough not to go through my horrible experience) have that mindset.
I just wish all the victim blaming would STOP and we'd start blaming the RAPISTS.
Sorry that I keep ranting about this, but obviously this is a topic that I could just go on and on about.
I actually just wrote about this. Though it was directed towards those who make "rape jokes" than to the rape-deniers. They say these things because they don't think, or don't want to think, that it could happen to them.
Lara, I'm so glad you wrote this.
When I tried to report my last rapist to the police - they I was told that my involvement in BDSM meant that I was not really raped, I was told that because he worked for the police I was not really raped, I was told that because I'd had consensual sex with him earlier that night I was not really raped, and I was told because he was my boyfriend that I was not really raped. Because I was mentally ill and already recovering from PTSD from previous male friends and a boyfriend who had raped me - I didn't know what was happening. I was just having a flashback. It wasn't real. Haw haw haw haw haw. Funny like a fist to the face.
The thing that gets me fucking miffed is that the police are supposed to be there to protect and serve, not patronise and annoy. Not only that - but if you can't get the law taken care by those who are supposed to enforce it, well then, what the FUCK are you meant to do?
We all know mentally ill, BDSM sluts can never be raped. It's like they didn't know about the whole "safe, sane and consensual part"
Fuckers.
This really hit home with me, as I was raped by my now ex-husband... but of course it wasn't rape, becuase he "didn't know I was sleeping", and didn't realize I "didn't want to have sex with him" and didn't hear the "Get off me, go away!!" that I yelled several times. Of course, no one would do anything, becuase he was a soldier, and everyone just knows soldiers can't rape their wives.
Seems like a hellova lot of women "aren't raped" every day, huh?
WolfWytch, while I've never experienced marital rape first-hand, my partner has, and it has been the hardest road for us.
He also raped her while she was asleep. That was two years ago, and we are just getting to the point now where she can almost totally trust me with her body -- trust that I will never violate her, that I cherish her and love her more than I love myself. It has been an incredibly painful process for her ... she has literally had to re-learn how to trust the one she loves.
I wanted her to report him, but she was met with the same "not rape" walls. He was her husband at the time, so obviously it wasn't rape. It was their anniversary night, so obviously he had a right to expect sex. It is so horrifying to realize that having the courage to say you've been raped is not as hard as getting people to help you.
I love her so much and I hate this. I hate this for all of us.
It took me years to acknowledge that what had happened to me in high school was sexual battery. My ex-boyfriend wanted to see me, and I said yes, because we were friends and he was Mormon and leaving for his mission soon. I told him via text messaging before he even arrived that I didn't want to do anything because I had a new boyfriend that I cared about. Sure enough, as soon as he parked his car, he started removing my clothes, feeling me up and kissing me. I was angry that he was so directly going against my wishes but I kept going anyway, in an attempt to "go with the flow", until about five minutes in when I started to cry. I asked him if he loved me and he said, "I love you more than anything," I kept crying and told him I didn't love him anymore and didn't want to do anything with him. You know what he said to me?
"Try and enjoy yourself. I'm leaving soon. Relax and try to have a good time."
After he was satisfied with the amount of fooling around we'd done, he didn't even have the decency to drop me off anywhere near my house. I walked two blocks back to my house knowing something very bad had just happened. I distinctly remember feeling dirty and wanting to get out of my skin afterwords, but it took me four years to understand that what this person had done to me was battery.
I ran into him four years later and we went for a long walk and talked about that night. I'm crying as I'm typing this, but when he talked about that night, he didn't remember me crying. And the worst part? I didn't try to jog his memory and make him remember.
And I feel so stupid for it.
I've never been raped, this is the closest I've ever come to that, but it was a horrible thing and it left a very bitter taste in my mouth. And it took me five years to call it what it was: sexual battery.
oh boy.
i wasn't really raped my first semester at school, because it was by my boyfriend. he came back to my dorm room after he'd had a really bad day, and i asked him to tell me about it. he said he didn't want to talk he just wanted to have sex and try to relax/forget about it. i was a little surprised, because we had sex a lot but right then i was very clearly in the middle of some homework. i told him i wasn't really in the mood and again asked if he just wanted to talk about it. my boyfriend told me i was being completely ridiculous for refusing to do this 'one little thing for him'. i told him again, and again, and again that i just didn't want to right then. he started yelling at me for being so selfish, and eventually he made me feel guilty and ashamed- so guilty and ashamed that i stopped saying no.
but when he had sex with me, it wasn't really rape because i didn't resist. it wasn't really rape because there was never any threat of violence or use of violence. and it wasn't really rape because we were dating, and continued to date for another month before i decided i really didn't like him.
it was so unlike rape i didn't realize it was rape until a couple months ago. since then, i've been telling my family and my friends about my rape- because i think talking about it is the only way we will stop what happened to us from happening to other girls.
To be competely honest as well if the guy was that desperate it would have taken 10 mins jess to finish him off and then he would be feeling better you would have been inconvenienced but have done you good deed of the day, and the world goes on, tis baisic utilitarianism
Maybe you can do a good deed and go around giving every guy who "needs" one a blow job so that we aren't expected to. It's only ten minutes, right?
and no because i don't have any attachment to every guy do I...
Fine, you can just give blow jobs to every guy you know. It's a minor inconvenience, really.
No how are you not getting this? I am not and have never been in a RELATIONSHIP with a guy, so therefore do not have any reason for sucking one off. YOU were in a relationship therefore it was what you should have done, relationships require give and take. You haven't a leg to stand on.
You actually are in a relationship with every guy you know. Wheter the relationship is parent/child, friend/friend, brother/brother, etc., it's still a relationship.
Why won't you do what I say you should do? I'm just giving you some advice.
Interesting how nobody ever claims that a man has an obligation to suck a woman off. Quite a privilege to be born with - non-reciprocal rights and obligations. Hurray for patriarchy!
Oh, yeah. Sex with a woman I've guilted, who is feeling bad, and doesn't want me? Hot. Seriously - it's perfectly obvious that this guy was using her as a masturbation tool. Of course she feels violated.
Oh.my.god. I can't believe I just read this. So now, just because she was in a realtionship with this guy, it was her DUTY to sexually satisfy him anytime he needs, even if she's busy and doesn't want to? COME ON.
If he was so desperate, how about just going to the bathroom and jerking off? That would only take 10 minutes too.
I am also a rape survivor and want to let you know about an onlime support group for victims of sexual violence. Many years after I was raped I realized I just wasn't over it. I started spending time on this site and the other survivors there had a huge impact on my healing. One day after about a year I just woke up and realized I was better. If you are interested, here is the link:
http://www.pandys.org/
Thanks for the tip, nifty. I don't have courage to actually show up at support groups -- and the feminist blogs have helped me a lot. So it's nice to know there's a place online for us.
My near-rape wasn't really rape either. I was drunk, high, and naked in a hot tub, and making out with someone else in between nearly passing out. Clearly I was asking for it.
On the serious side, it took me a long time to admit it too. In fact, it took my male SO telling me that the guy got me high and drunk in order to get into my pants for me to realize what had actually happened. And like you, as far from sober as I was, I remember it as clear as day.
Thanks for this.
Gee...I guess you weren't raped then, having had his dick in your mouth... the human jaw being able to exert according to many sources up to 200 Psi wheras the human hand can only do about 40 psi. How did he get your mouth open to suck his dick? did he catch you by surprise? if so you could have easily made it unpleasant enough for him to immediately stop.
Please for the love of god stop calling your mistakes rape you got drunk and sucked of a guy. thats it. If you regret it the next day that's your problem missy. Seriously have you drank since? If you havn't then i'm glad you learn't you lesson. x
Listen you fucking asshole rape denying apologist: go fuck yourself and jump off a fucking cliff.
Ever think that maybe I was horrified, confused, scared and too busy gagging on his fucking dick/trying to breathe to even think about biting down to stop what he was doing?! Probably not because you're a brain is the size of a peanut.
You want to know the lesson I learned? To let let myself feel belittled by jackasses like you. I was RAPED. End of story. Now fuck you and have a nice day.
Wow psyco much?
Ever think to not get down on your knees and not open your mouth? to be completely honest it's not that hard. so don't blame that guy for you turning into somwhat of a hussie when your drunk.
Cahiney, I assume you must be one of those radical lesbian feminists whos oppinions don't really count for anything as you seem to equate all men as rapists if not then you are just accusing me of it without any justification.
Gee so i guess we should all calm down and wash the sand out of our vaginas. x
If you're trying to insult me you could at least learn how to spell. I guess I was right about that peanut-sized brain, huh?
BTW, have fun with your last few hours on this site. You will be gone shortly.
huh, I'm still here.... look at that. Wow i guess being sexist is also what feminism stands for now as because i am a man it is my "peanut-sized brain" that cause me to spell incorrectly and not a shitty keyboard.
And does your shitty keyboard also cause your poor logic and horribly misogynistic attitude? That's quite the keyboard you've got there.
That first "let" in the last paragraph is supposed to be a "never." These tech problems have really been messing up the posing lately...
Wow. You're a fucking asshole, aren't you?
Stop telling others what happened to them when wait, YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE.
Denial much?? If you are a woman...then these stories are reminding YOU of all the times men have "expected" you to get them off (and you didn't wnat to so its rape) OR you are a man...who has done this countless times to some poor women - and you can't deal with the fact that these stories make you realize that you raped them. Either way - you are terified of male priveledge (their's or your own) and need to get help.
...the human jaw being able to exert according to many sources up to 200 Psi wheras the human hand can only do about 40 psi. How did he get your mouth open to suck his dick? did he catch you by surprise? if so you could have easily made it unpleasant enough for him to immediately stop.
Um, the last I heard of a woman defending herself against her husband forcing his dick in her mouth, was that SHE was then charged with an assault. So yeah, great advice.
It's really not that hard to force things into people's mouths using a combination of verbal intimidation and physical force, such as holding the person down, covering their nose, etc. I've been held down, and I'll tell you that the sheer exhaustion of fighting back can often be enough to give in. Luckily for me, what the person wanted wasn't his dick in my mouth...but still.
perhaps she just had a really really shit lawyer... and when was this btw? covering someones nose does not necesitate opening teeth, and it would be pretty hard to hold someone down long enough to stick your dick in their mouth.
and was this person actually beaten, or just intimidated? if it was teh latter then she shouldn't be such a pussy
reported abuse.
why? I have merely been giving advice.
Reported abuse. x
That last comment was for Hola - sorry..should have made that clear.
wow. hola, why do you come here if you clearly have nothing productive or logical to offer? people come here to engage in dialogue and to potentially learn from views that differ from their own. you clearly have not absorbed anything, as you keep bringing up the same, illogical points, after numerous people have disproven them.
i think you need to buy yourself a library card and do some reading. i suggest you start with feminism ... slowly, so it doesn't overwhelm you with intellectual rigor ... and work your way to some classic texts on rape culture.
let's all pray that there is a cure for your intense ignorance and paralyzing fear of admitting your own privilege. i am deeply sorry for any woman who has to deal with you on a daily basis.
Apologies folks - troll banned.
We had tech issues this weekend and couldn't get into the backend of the site - that's why it took so long. I want to apologize especially to Lara - thank you for posting about your experience, and I'm so sorry that this asshole wasn't banned sooner.
Thanks Jessica! :)
When you ban people, does it somehow stop them from creating a new username and starting again? Does it block their IP address or something?