Trigger Warning
This link is for another review of the game, as I really don't wish to investigate the actual pages (somewhat triggering). I'll quote some of the original review, though.
"A game that involves the player stalking victims and then raping them in a virtual world is being offered for sale by online retailer Amazon.com, the Belfast Telegraph's website can reveal.
...One website review describes "tears glistening in the young girl's eyes" as she is attacked in graphic detail.
Players begin the game by stalking a mother on a subway station before violently raping her. They then move on to attack her two daughters described as virgin schoolgirls."
It continues that if you get your victim pregnant you need to force her to have an abortion or she has a child and kills you.
Censorship is a government issue. Private companies, however, choose what they will provide in order to make money. Therefore, I promote contacting Amazon (or any other game provider that you discover which carries this) and telling them that you are disappointed in them, will not patronize them, or any other action that carrying this type of product influences you to do.
This is a link to a screengrab of the Amazon product screen (accessed from BoingBoing also). See, even leaving comments will draw the game's rating down!
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I instinctively feel like this is worse than the myriad video games where you kill people. But I'm not sure I can logically justify the difference. Maybe its that there are situations where its acceptable to shoot at people (say, if you're in a war, or you're attacked by a gang of thugs, or in some post-apocalyptic world full of zombies, etc) but there really aren't any situations where its ok to rape someone.
There are no words...I do agree that this is worse than the games where people kill each other and one way I justify it is that rape is a crime that in many ways is more prevelant than murder is...but is also one of if not the least reported crime...
Also in most of the "killing" games there is a reason for killing it isn't just one of those "I once shot a man just to watch him die",it isn't a good reason, but I have yet to hear of a video game where the players are just sociopathically killing people, or just randomly stalk and kill people like a serial killer...
But there is never ever ever any sort or kind or pretense of a reason for rape it is a crime that no matter the circumstances it is never understandable or okay...
This game is aborhent (I know that isn't spelled correctly but oh well)...the persons that made this game should be either arrested for probable actions committed or be watched for possible actions to be committed...and Amazon...I have no words...just no words...
(just to clarify I hate the games that are killing games too...and murder is just so wrong so if that was in any way unclear please I am so just horrified by this game)
Yeah, that's a good point. Usually when you shoot at people in video games there's some reason (they're monsters, they're the enemy in a war, whatever) and even if there isn't a specific reason presented, you're just impersonally shooting at them. The other important difference is that the enemy in those games can fight back. I don't follow the world of video games so I don't know if this already exists but I think I'd be more disturbed by a video game in which you graphically beat up a man who's clearly weaker than you while he begs you to stop.
I play a fair amount of first person shooters. I'm not sure if I'm just attempting to justify the fact that my gut reaction says a rape game is far worse because I play these games. However, I think you have a really excellent point that in most shooting games, the 'enemy' can fight back. In typical games, the enemy's goal is to kill you as much as it is your goal to kill them. It may disgust some people to think of it this way, but in a sense it's like most sports. You are both trying to achieve the same goal through a balance of strategic offense and defense. And of course, there is usually some sort of plot-line to explain why you are doing the killing. This rape game is not about a battle between enemies, it's one-sided. The woman is completely passive and the man stalks and ultimately attacks her.
I agree. Most of the killing games is unisex. You can aim for either a man or a woman. This game is similar to 'race killing' games in which you run around with a rifle and target minorities (who also happen to be offensively portrayed). The aim of murder games is mainly about stalking and the thrill of shooting. It doesnt train a person to target a particular group of people in a vicious manner. Rape is different than murder. Many survivors feel as though theyve been killed inside, or may even develop mental disorders (the trouble with spikol). Its horrible and sad and leaves the victim with lifetime memories. The murdered dont have to live with the past torture. I think this game also plays into the 'this is the way men are' and rape isnt rape its just a different type of sex mentality. It also plays into the men cant hold themselves back idea. This gives young males a idea of themselves that can prove negative for the well-being of females.
After thinking about this some more:
I don't necessarily think it will be banned. There's no proof that playing a game like this makes someone more likely to rape. Its just as logical that it would provide an outlet for sexual violence without actually hurting anyone. The same goes for porn with rape in it, as long as the actors are all consenting adults.
That said, if I knew someone who played this game (or enjoyed rape/snuff porn) I would highly distrust them and not want to have anything to do with them.
[This is based on descriptions of the game, since I also don't want to track down the original website]
That should have said "I don't necessarily think it SHOULD be banned"
I think this is about where I stand...
And as you said in your earlier comment: I instinctively feel like this is worse than the myriad video games where you kill people. But I'm not sure I can logically justify the difference. Maybe its that there are situations where its acceptable to shoot at people (say, if you're in a war, or you're attacked by a gang of thugs, or in some post-apocalyptic world full of zombies, etc) but there really aren't any situations where its ok to rape someone.
I play video games, some more violent than others. (Fallout 3, anyone?)
But I have a gut reaction to rape and sexual violence in a game that I don't have to other forms of violence.
And I'm not quite sure why I have this reaction.
Perhaps because rape is inflicted largely upon women. And it's something we so often condone or excuse in our society...or blame on the victim.
In fact, I think that's probably a large part of it.
Rape slips under the radar. It's fetishized. Romanticized. (How many times have I come across ravishment/ravishing in romance novels?) We may criminalize it in our courts, but the societal mind has a long way to go.
Ugh. I'm rambling.
I need to think more.
(Or maybe less. My brain is tired.)
And maybe my reaction is also because sexual violence is the focal point of this game...
I think a lot of it also stems from the fact that sex is worse than violence in our culture (assuming you're American). We'll let gritty cop and law dramas on the air where a murder is very graphically depicted on prime time TV, but show some soft core porn and you're suddenly demonized. I'm not sure if it's a kick back to our puritan roots, but it's always puzzled me.
It has been banned by Amazon. I wrote an article on RIOTgamer about it...and other games that Amazon still carries which contain the same themes. There exists, though, a host of research that indicates that when men are subjected to rape scenes, their attitudes on rape become more permitting - same with women, actually.
Amazon isn't selling that.
If you notice from the screenshot, it's "from these sellers".
Much like eBay, Amazon has a "seller" feature, wherein ANYONE that signs up, can sell anyTHING.
Also someone in the comments thread at Boing Boing said Amazon already removed it, but I don't know how to verify that.
I was about to say this very thing. A "pro seller" on Amazon can create listings for things that Amazon itself doesn't sell, and I can tell from the screengrab that this is what happened here. There's no button to click to buy the thing from Amazon itself, only buttons to buy from "these sellers." (I'm considered a "Pro seller" myself--it costs 40 bucks to be one, and there are no other qualifications required.)
However, Amazon can and does ban sellers from the site for a variety of reasons, so folks can urge Amazon to ban the sellers who have attempted to sell this game. It won't stop them from selling it someplace else, but it would send a message that most people don't consider this product acceptable. (Plus the seller would not be refunded his $40.)
Jezebel posted yesterday that Amazon had stopped selling it:
http://jezebel.com/5152478/amazon-drops-rape-simulation-video-game
I think that complaining to the company that created and released this sickening game is in order. I'm disappointed in Amazon.com and other online companies for distributing a misogynist product like this.
I remember a few years ago, a friend showed me an online game where you sneak into a girls room while she is asleep, and try to make her have an orgasm before she wakes up. there were "fun" things you could buy like sleeping pills and stuff. I can't remember where it was but it was anime like that game.
This post is eerily too calm for me.
I'm absolutely disgusted.
I agree-- I think feminists tip-toe around anything that might be perceived as promoting censorship. I call it the "MacKinnon - Dworkin Syndrome." This is not to minimize the dangers of censorship, but to highlight the fear of expressing outrage at some... well... outrageous media representations of women, including as virtual objects on which men can work out their rape fantasies.
Having said that, though, the relationship between fantasy and reality is a complex one and it definitely needs to be addressed. As MissKitty pointed out, it is as arguable that fantasy rape is an outlet that prevents real rape, as that it encourages and promotes it.
This has been a point of contention among feminists for a long time.
"As MissKitty pointed out, it is as arguable that fantasy rape is an outlet that prevents real rape, as that it encourages and promotes it. "
I dont think so! Thats one of the reasons Greeks have legal prostitution. They think that if a man doesnt have sex that he will go and rape women.This also furthers the divide between women;one as 'whores' and the other as 'decent.' How about teaching men not to rape and not to feel entitled to have sex all the time. He's not privileged and special just because he's a man. However, this is what most men think.
I said "arguable," I didn't say "correct"!
apparently some women think that way too. people, women included, rape not because of their gender or because they feel privileged, but for a variety of reasons including control and rage. it's not about teaching men, as though all or most men are inclined to rape by nature of their makeup. anyway, i have the same reaction as many here and want the game "banned" but don't see how its any different from say grand theft auto
Grand Theft Auto isnt about rape. You dont rape the characters! This game revolves around rape, Grand Theft Auto does not. How can you even compare the two?
I don't necessarily think that people who play this game will go out and rape women, but I also don't think that makes it any less dangerous. It makes rape seem like less of a crime than it is and perpetuates the idea that rape is fun. It may not turn men into rapists, but it could still contribute to people not taking rape seriously.
I agree wholeheartedly.
that turns my stomach, but it looks like it comes out of japan and i can't say that i'm surprised...
That comment implies a racist generalization on your part. Rape culture can be found everywhere the patriarchy is, most definitely including the US.
I am not that concerned... Heck, I own my own 'rape simulator' game thingy, though it involves male on male scenarios and is aimed at the ladies, and I'm not crazy. 'Rape fantasies' are a pretty common when it comes to sexual fantasy, and a video game like this has more to do with them than actual rape, I'm sure. That's not to say that there aren't any issues that surround them, but they're miles away from actual, real life rape.
The problem with games like this, besides the obvious violent acts against women, is that entirety of these "games" create a space that normalizes rape. You say that the "game" and "real life" are two very different things. I disagree.
When we create a virtual world that says rape and sexual assault are okay, then allow millions and millions of people to play in this "virtual world", it creates a culture or society that minimizes the severity of this crime. This, ultimately leads others to think that rape and sexual assault "aren't a big deal", it's a self perpetuating cycle.
If we say games like these are unacceptable, and forbid them to be played, the severity of rape and sexual assault will NOT be trivialized like it is now. Games like these are disgusting, triggering and have no simpathy for victims and survivors of rape or sexual assault.
HOW is this game supposed to be "fun"??
As much as this game makes my stomach churn, I think it's a bit of a leap to say that banning games like this is going to reduce the prevalence of rape.
(I think I misconstrued what you were saying -- never mind my last comment.)
The titled on the movie is rape/lay. Clearly the sellers of the game are trying to market the idea to the consumers that sex/rape are the same things. That a 'lay' is rape. Its a way of lessening the fact of what it actually is.
You dont want any future criminals to say ' oh, I'm not responsible for my own behaviors, because the marketers brainwashed me.' This gives a guy an excuse for his behavior when game slike this are allowed to flourish.
Tired of patriarchal excuses and tired of misogyny.
In Japanese, the title is a combination of "reipu" and "purei", which is to say "rape play."
yeah because raping a mother and her two virgin schoolgirl daughters is a totally cool fantasy to have....no, i'm sorry, it's disgusting.
Well, yeah. It is. The keyword is 'fantasy'. Unless we are going to claim that everyone that indulges in BDSM and role plays rape scenarios is evil and sick. Sex fantasies have next to nothing to do with reality. One of my latest featured gang rape and snake people. Snake people. This does not mean that I would ever liked to be gang raped by snake people, or that I want to be a snake person and rape someone. It's admittedly perverted and creepy, but completely harmless nonsense.
i disagree, sorry.
maybe because i'm thinking in terms of this: if my husband had a fantasy about raping underage girls or anyone, really. i would probably divorce him. it's disgusting and i don't think it's normal. especially since we have a daughter.
also i don't see what's sexy about forcing someone to have sex using violence. it's horrible to think about, it's horrible to endure, and why on earth would you WANT to do that to another human being? why would you fantasize about shaming, violating, ruining another person? to me, it's heinous and it's disgusting.
and that might just be my opinion but whatever, my opinion isn't going to change.
although according to this:
"A huge majority of Americans believe that some forms of "pornography" - eg. eroticized rape scenes - influence some men toward real-life sexual aggression. Social science also now confirms this. A large body of behavioral research shows that men exposed to certain rape portrayals show psychological changes that increase the likelihood of attacks on women"
- * Originally published as NOMAS Position Paper on the Harmfulness of Pornograpy
* Authored by Robert Brannon, Ph.D. - Chair, Pornography and Prostitution Task Group
Don't knock it until you've tried it. Or, at least, remember that just because it is not your thing, or that you do not understand it, does not mean that you're right.
Is humiliating, beating, and torturing someone in real life sick and horrible? Of course. Is tying your consenting lover up, dressing them like a school boy/girl, and giving them a good spanking (and more) as punishment for their disobedience like that? Or is it just kinky? In any case, the idea of being on the receiving end of that sounds like fun to me, to say the least. And I'm sure many men and women would concur.
Once, a long time ago, I read an article written by a blind woman that was also into kinky sex. Se described how how the two men she was was having sex with were careful to keep her from accidentally bumping into something before pinning her down and giving her a flogging. That captures the concept perfectly for me. You don't REALLY want your lover to get hurt, you're just playing at it for mutual fun and benefit. Why else would things like safewords exist?
Role playing and fantasy is an odd thing. Why would someone want to play as an immoral criminal in a video game? Why do people enjoy role playing games, whether they be Dungeons & Dragons or something on an internet forum? Why is it fun in those situations to occasionally play as a bad guy?
Who knows? In any case, if those people aren't crazy psychopaths, then people with kinky fantasies aren't either.
And I don't trust that organization's assertions.
By the way, if you've already decided that you'll never change your mind no matter what facts are given to you, then there is no point in discussing this with you.
you haven't given me any facts. but you're right there's no discussion needed since my opinion cannot be changed.
What kind of facts would you like? Seriously, if you're a little more specific people can probably answer your questions or direct you to where you can find your answers.
One quote I like, paraphrased from Dan Savage: BDSM is like cops and robbers for grown-ups. Its a game. Everyone has to be consenting for it to be fun.
Its sort of like saying if you're running away from someone scary and you're worried you'll be attacked, its a very bad experience. But if you're running away from your friend in a game of tag its fun.
So if you're tied up nonconsensually by someone who you're afraid of, who will hurt you, its an extremely bad experience. But if your lover ties you up and tickles you and does other things that feel good, it can be lots of fun.
Now, personally, I think there's a difference between standard BDSM and rape fantasies. Maybe rape fantasies are a subset of BDSM. I think most people who practice BDSM aren't really playing out a rape fantasy-- the sub might resist a little or say no (if they have a different agreed upon safeword) but you can tell they're enjoying it and often they're not even pretending they don't. They're not crying and begging you to stop, they're giggling and moaning in a good way. People who play out really seriuos rape fantasies, where the sub really fights back and cries and stuff, are going for a little bit of a different feel, but as long as its consensual and they have a safeword its their business. I don't find it erotic but that doesn't mean they don't have a right to enjoy it.
I still say this game makes me uncomfortable in a way that BDSM doesn't, but its hard to put my finger on why. If you act out a rape fantasy with your girlfriend, she's consented to it and is enjoying it, and that makes it really not rape at all. This game removes that element, since no one is consenting at all, and somehow that makes it feel a little more off to me. But I wouldn't ban it. I just have to hope that the people who play it are aware of the difference between fantasy and reality.
>>Sex fantasies have next to nothing to do with reality.
I think it's interesting that you said "next to nothing"...
Even though people who fantasize about rape aren't necessarily going to go out and rape, that doesn't mean that fantasy doesn't play some role in what we are and what we are not willing to tolerate in the real world-- our attitudes, our perceptions and so on.
To suggest fantasy only has one psychological role-- that of 'outlet for the repressed'-- is to really, really oversimplify the neurology and psychology of fantasy, and its relationship to reality.
Okay, yah got me there. I'm sure there are more complex psychological and sociological things going on. I was trying to express how much the fantasy of rape is different from what actual real life rape is.
anyways, I'm sure that those who do fantasy rape in their bedrooms (or wherever) wouldnt be for this kind of game to be offered to the general public. They would feel it wouldnt be worth the risk to the general minds of the public.
Just look at the post about those that knowingly use sex slaves and write about it on a website that was featured on the community forums. THAT is why you dont have rape video games sold to mass audience. The power of sexuality is a strong one and unless you know the difference between consent and non-consent colored by the mature understanding of sexual politics then you shouldnt even be playing these games. Being that those that play these games do not have to have such a requirement (and would be impossible to enforce anyways) you do not make games like this and endorse it to a general audience without ending up with negative consequences for women.
This is different than fantasy. Its encouraging (mostly underdevoped boys) to not see rape as bad. This isnt some grown 30-something who understands the difference between fantasy and reality and sexual diversity. this is a adolescent 13 year old who already feel ssexually entitled to women (thanks to the misogynistic porn out there and the culture it represents) so why wouldnt this give him erroneous ideas about females? Do you think its alright to have games in which you kill off Africans because this is your fantasy?
I really doubt that this game is aimed at underdeveloped boys, or that they'll be the main demographic playing it. And if it does get into their hands, it would be the same as with any other type of porn. Just because it is intended for adults does not mean it is universally evil.
There is a difference between a sexual fantasy and something that you want to do but can't. Someone has a fantasy about killing a bunch of Africans because they are racist, ignorant, cruel nitwits. People have rape fantasies because it turns them on, which is not intellectual and has nothing to do with actual beliefs about relationships, love, men, women, and so on.
On that note, though, if you get turned on by the fantasy of killing Africans for some reason that has nothing to do with retarded beliefs, then go ahead and make you're crazy game. More power to yah.
"Someone has a fantasy about killing a bunch of Africans because they are racist, ignorant, cruel nitwits. People have rape fantasies because it turns them on, which is not intellectual and has nothing to do with actual beliefs about relationships, love, men, women, and so on."
This is one of the most anti-intellectual comments I've read on this site in ages.
Why is fantasy cruel and racist when aimed at people of a certain race but fun and sexy when aimed at people of a certain sex?
YOU are the one who brought consentual BDSM play into this discussion; it has no place here. This conversation is not about consentual activities nor is the game in question equal-opportunity violence.
Even if people who play this game DON'T go on to commit rape, I know I don't want them anywhere near me, let alone sitting on juries in rape cases.
*facepalm*
Sex fantasy: Imaginary scenario that turns you on.
Fantasy-fantasy: Imaginary scenario that you wish was true or possible.
If this game was about running around killing all the women of the world, that's some crazy, psycho fantasy stuff. Why the hell would anyone want to kill all the women in the world?
But this is a game about running around and forcibly having sex with attractive women with ridiculously large breasts.
See the difference?
That's why I keep comparing this to BDSM. It is basically a BDSM role playing scenario turned into game form. I'm not going to lie and say that the level it goes to doesn't make me uncomfortable, such as the forced abortion thing. I mean, that's messed up, though the random killing of innocent people is a feature of plenty of other games, like GTA, so I'm not sure what to feel about that.
I understand your comparison in that both the video game and BDSM role-play are fantasies. But think there are some important differences between the two.
First, the video wasn't labeled as "BDSM" or intended as a product designed for the pleasure of that particular subculture. It was intended for a more-or-less mainstream audience of gamers. Second, in BDSM, the discrepancy between dominance and submission is voluntary and explicitly chosen: "I'm a dom;" "I'm a sub;" "I'm a switch." Additionally, it is mutual: consensual amongst all parties involved, in a scene that is negotiated beforehand and that can be broken at any time by any of those involved.
With a video game, consent issues are absent. You pop in the disc and away you go, off to rape a virtual woman with whom your character does not negotiate beforehand, who never expresses that she wants to engage in this fantasy, and so on.
Also I'm really not sure this is fantasy rape, so much as simulated rape. This might sound like hair-splitting, but there's a difference.
On the issue of consent, I think the point of pointing it out is actually quite valid.
When your partner in the rape fantasy roleplay as mentioned before is consenting, he/she is *enjoying* the experience.
In this game, as mentioned in the review about the tears in the young girl's eyes, there is no enjoyment. The player of the video game is taking delight in another person's emotional *and* physical pain. Regardless of what the player's character is ACTUALLY doing, there is an incredible amount of pain on the part of the victim. Killing games are different in that, again, as mentioned before, there is often a reason. Victims don't die without reason. And their pain is not the subject of the game. It's just *bam* they're dead. In this game the pain is prevalent, obvious and accentuated.
"Hey, let's play a game where we physically and emotionally torture a whole family of women, then force them to kill their fetus!!" Sounds like a winner to me...
Those are good points. I'd be more disturbed by Halo if the people who died were shown suffering in graphic detail.
I also think its a good point that the video game women don't negotiate any deal beforehand so you can say they're enjoying it even if they act like they aren't. Simulated rape vs fantasy rape is a good way to put it, and maybe helps articulate why I feel this video game is worse than fantasy rape between partners.
I'm pretty sure this product was not meant for a mainstream audience. It is hentai, which is a very specific kind of entertainment.
And as AFP said: "The "Rapelay" game was reportedly created exclusively for the Japanese market but a couple of "like new" copies were being offered on Amazon by a US seller specializing in Hentai items.
The game was released in 2006 by Illusion studio, based in Japan. Other titles from the studio include "Battle Raper" and "Artificial Girl."
Clearly it was intended for Japanese hentai consumers. Which makes sense considering few Japanese hentai games every make it into the US. I knew someone who sold Japanese hentai games in the United States and he made a good profit at it because they are very hard to get outside of Japan.
Oh, I see... I never heard of "hentai" before... thanks for sharing that...
Hentai includes a whole range of pornographic animanted entertainment, including yaoi (male on male, which is consummed mostly by females) and yuri (female on female).
I think something is getting lost in translation when we discuss this game because of the whole Japanese angle. Few hentai "games" are games in the Western sense (like Halo or World of Warcraft). Most of them function more like a pseudo-interactive comic book or an animated Choose Your Own Story. Many of them have cheap static scenes instead of the full-fledged expensive animation we expect in video games.
I have no idea what level of interaction this game offers.
In terms of pornography and offensive pornography, Japan has an extremely wide offering of products. And they have some bizarre ideas (to us Westerners) about what is kosher. Which explains the pink Hello Kitty dildos or the fact that for years pornography (animated porn included) has been heavily censored (you don't show the pubic area, including hair).
The result was urabon, an underground market for uncensored genitalia.
I've seen the anime porn but I never knew it was tied to a whole subculture...Good point, also, about missing the Japanese cultural referents and so on. I looked up "Hentai" on Wikipedia and it said:
"Hentai (?? or ????) is a Japanese word that, in the West, is used when referring to sexually explicit or pornographic comics and animation, particularly Japanese anime, manga and computer games (see Japanese pornography). In Japan it can be used to mean 'metamorphosis' or 'abnormality'. The word 'hentai' has a negative connotation to the Japanese and is commonly used to mean 'sexually perverted'.
"In Japanese the word hentai is a kanji compound of ? (hen meaning "change" 'weird' or 'strange') and ? (tai meaning 'attitude' or 'appearance'). The term is used as a shortened form of the phrase ???? (hentai seiyoku), or 'sexual perversion'. In slang, ?? (hentai) is used as an insult meaning roughly 'pervert' or 'weirdo'. The term is not often applied to pornography in Japan. Instead, terms such as 18-kin (18?, literally "18-prohibited") meaning 'prohibited to those not yet 18 years old', and seijin manga (???? 'adult manga') are used when referring to pornography. The English letters AV are also used, standing for adult video."
You are splitting hairs that don't exist. Why do you oppose killing all the women in the world but not RAPING THEM? How 'bout if I get turned on by murdering people? Then will you downgrade it from sick and twisted to "fantasy play?"
It's not about BDSM because the female characters in the game aren't consenting! They are being victimized, and the fact that you keep conflating rape and sex is disturbing.
Christ.
I gather that rape can be like living death for many survivors. Murder seems more humane.
Also, a male is bigger than a woman and because of this it makes a man feel entitled to be able to get it if he wanted it. I read a blurb in my human sexualities textbook that said that studies show that if men could get away with rape a majority would do it.
If most men would rape if they could get away with it, then what does it even matter that this game exists? Aren't there much bigger fish to fry?
But this would only encourage them to normalize it.
It doesnt say why it is, but I gather its possibly the culture we live in. Tossing fire on fire doesnt put it out. A game like this would only undermine the prospects of ending the rape culture we have in the U.S. and abroad. Then men might not say they would rape if they could get away with it.
What studies?
This is a very old report on studies, but it is the first one I found from a reliable source, and I did not have the willpower to read through any other horrific articles:
'When men are asked if there is any likelihood they would force a woman to have sex against her will if they could get away with it, about half say they would,'
That's disturbing. I'd like to see more details about that study.. the guy in the article just said it, without explaining who they surveyed etc.
I know there are lots of men out there who commit rape, but I can't believe more than half of all men would enjoy forcing sex on someone who was crying just because they knew they wouldn't be prosecuted later.
not all victims cry. you need to reconsider your idea of rape.
that's an article from the nytimes that is hardly a report supported by the evidence we expect from science. moreover, the article goes on to talk about how women fake protests during courtship, saying no so they wont seem loose, but really meaning yes. taking that article as proof that half of men would rape if they could get away with it, is a ridiculous as saying women mean yes when they say no?
Besides the article was speaking about the language sorounding sexual assault, and used that example merely to show how the word rape as opposed to the words, "forcibly engage in sex, is viewed by both men and women in society)
I read it in my human sexualities textbook.
Look, I'm as disturbed as everyone else is about this game, but I think that's crossing the line. Our culture has led to a lot of nasty things, but I refuse to believe that the majority of men would rape women "if they could get away with it." That's implying that men are animals who can't control themselves when it comes to sex (which isn't even what rape is about!), and it's just as insulting as the nonsense stereotypes we women have to face.
Gopher's statement is a little bit off, but unfortunately it's not completely made up or out of no where. I took human sexuality in college too and read studies that show that half of men SAY they WOULD use physical force to have sex with women without their consent if they knew they would not get in trouble (if you use the word rape, many less men say they would).
whether or not men actually would I can't say, but they said they would...
But who says sex has anything to do with rape? This is about raping women. Guys playing this game to indulge in the fantasy of raping women, ie having power over them. This isnt being played by the 30-something adult that understands consent/non-consent and knows the boundaries of his sexuality so he can understand that when he indulges in this fantasy that it isnt actually about raping someone. Its not being imagined within a certain sexual intelligence that comes from years of knowing your sexuality.
I hate how rape is romanticized. It's bad enough in today's media, but to sell a game that's glorifying it?! There are so many misconceptions of rape being sexual and whatnot. This just perpetuates the stereotype.
I have no problem with the game. I've never bought into the "if you play games that are violent you're more likely to be violent yourself."
People obviously have rape fantasies. You can't control what turns you on. I'm not scornful of these people anymore than I am of people who really like anal. It's whatever floats your sexual boat. As long as it's fake (a video game) or between two consenting adults, who are we to complain? I'd also like to point out that Japan has a 40 year long history of graphic rape books, comics, and videos, but one of the lowest actual rape rates in the world.
Besides, I play plenty of games where you kill many people in cold blood (Assassin's Creed anyone? or the GTA series). It doesn't create a society that is ok with people randomly killing people. I don't see how raping someone in a game would be any worse.
>>People obviously have rape fantasies. You can't control what turns you on.
This is where I have to ask-- since when do we, as feminists, turn off our critical reasoning once something is labeled "fantasy"?
Is it that difficult to remember the context within which these fantasies play themselves out? Namely, in a culture where women and men are still not equal, especially in the realm of sexuality?
Are you going to tell me that the real production of this video game, which is the product of probably mostly male programmers and software developers, which is put out on a real market that is driven by both advertising (manipulation of demand via 'fantasy' designed to have a real impact on real behavior), as well as demographics (and we're probably talking again about mostly teenage male consumers of this video game)... against a context where women are regularly objectified in the media, valued for their sex appeal and beauty, and, yes, raped.
How can we be so casual about fantasy given the real context out of which it emerges?
Since when do we, as feminists, turn off our critical reasoning once something is labeled "fantasy"?
I can answer this one. We can't criticize or question fantasies anymore because feminism, mainstream feminism, has become about upholding choices, in particular, the choice to uphold patriarchal norms, rather than questioning or criticizing. We must pretend that our choices come out of the void and that women and other oppressed groups are totally autonomous in their "choices". Otherwise, we would have to face the effects that patriarchy has on our own lives. We would have to face the ugly truth that "I like it, and I'm not a bad person" -- the very first thing Sophia G said in this thread -- is not an argument at all, but a rationalization.
I mean, if we accept that our most personal desires and fantasies are conditioned by patriarchal hegemony, how could we continue to subscribe to the myth of our own autonomy? Feminism, instead of a vaporous political leaning, would become something deeply personal and threatening to our conceptions of our selves.
How can we be so casual about fantasy given the real context out of which it emerges?
I don't think it's a problem that we have this one video game out there. What we do need is a greater variety of porn and healthier relationships shown in media that is NOT designed to turn people on. On top of that, we need education programs and parents who are willing to sit down with their kids and talk about sex, relationships, and the difference between fantasy and real life. We need all of those things to address the problem of sexism and all that is attached to that.
So in short, we don't need to change this game--it is not creating a society that is violent towards women--we need to address the other parts of society that are not preventing this game from having a negative impact.
Reported rapes. One of the lowest reported rape rates.
Thank you! I was hoping someone would point that out.
Japan has an ENORMOUS problem with underreporting rape.
How do you know that? Do you have a link to a source?
It seems to me that sociologists have a need for accurate statistics about these things, and you'd think that they would have found a way to get numbers that reflect reality. Otherwise 10,000 PhDs are just wasting their time.
And most other crime, I'd imagine...
I understand the idea that you can't control what turns you on, but is it a bad idea to question your turn-ons, particularly when they cause harm to someone else? Or are self-destructive?
If raping someone turns you on, shouldn't you ask yourself why? If hitting someone and causing them pain is enjoyable, again, shouldn't you ask why? Is it an inability to put yourself in their place and empathize? Or is it a reaction to your own fear of being in that place? Or is it just anti-social, narcissistic, sociopathic selfishness?
Shouldn't we ponder these questions, not just leave them unanalyzed for fear of seeming prudish or sex-negative?
I am all for mutual enjoyment of sex, no matter how bizarre. But the clincher is, and has always been, everyone has a good time. Hurting people -- really hurting them -- offends my integrity.
Games like Rapelay offend my integrity, because they make it okay, even if just virtually, to embrace that sociopathy and narcissism without consequences.
You can certainly ask yourself why. You can think and think and think and figure out exactly where that particular fantasy came from. And at the end of the day, it's still going to turn you on.
The vast majority of people with fantasies like this have no problem separating them from reality. A lot of these people end up in the BDSM scene, where consent is stressed far more heavily than it would be in most situations. A dom and a sub will discuss exactly what they're going to do and they will establish a safeword. That kind of care doesn't exactly say "anti-social, narcissistic, sociopathic selfishness."
I strongly disagree with anyone willing to demonize a person entirely because or what he or she finds sexy.
In this game, no one's getting hurt. The women being raped don't exist. I do think a disclaimer of some sort would be a good thing.
So if the only way I can truly get sexual satisfaction is by watching child porn or snuff films or animals getting crushed, you would tell me that was okay, since I am only contributing financially to some serious messed up shit, but not actually acting on it? Cool!
Look, I am not talking about consensual BDSM here.
I'm talking about individuals who have violent sexual fantasies involving non-consensual acts, and finally act on them. You know, sex crimes.
And yeah, I get that Rapelay is just a video game (albeit with a hefty dose of pedophilia). But once that shit gets into your head, it's hard to get rid of. The human brain has an amazing way of normalizing even the scariest stuff, and that's how you survive.
But that can also backfire. There's a reason why pedophiles and serial rapists are so difficult to rehabilitate.
And what about sex addictions?
Have you heard of "porn creep"? It's when someone can no longer get aroused by a real partner.
Yeah, most of us will not turn into rapists because we played Rapelay. But if the game even turns one person into one, in my opinion, it is an accessory. And if it turns supposedly sane and good people into rape apologists who then sit on a jury, then its creators should be made responsible.
Child porn and snuff films are illegal. It is illegal to act out on your desire to acquire child porn. There's no "I'm just watching, not actually acting on it." The act of seeking child porn is by itself illegal.
The act of playing a simulated rape game may be tasteless but it is not currently illegal so please do not compare it to child porn. We're talking two different things here.
If you want to discuss a more proper analogy, that would be violent games.
In 2007, the British Board of Film Classification rejected Manhunt 2. This meant the Manhunt title cannot be legally supplied anywhere in the UK.
If other countries wish to pass similar laws that would ban certain video game titles from the country, I am sure that could take place. I doubt England would allow this game to be sold because of their censorship laws, which, although rarely applied to video games do exist.
I'm absolutely revolted that they make a game like this. This is much worse than murder games. In murder youre not actually preying on a woman to exploit her. Murder kills you. Rape doesnt but lasts forever. Its even sicker they wouldnt give the woman any form of possible self-defense. This allows men to blur the line between rape and sex. Its sick that amazon wouldve even allowed this to be sold on its website. To many men think that these games that pander to their gender are an entitlement. They dont care about the repurcussions or what this does to womens status in society. They feel that because theyre men that they get it simply by the privilege of being a man. It wouldnt be the same if they had some male castration game (like one poster wrote on the link). Men are bigger than women and the encouragement to construct an identity around forcing your bigger physical body over a smaller woman is abhorent. If there was a castration game it would be more like a vendetta game in which you kill off mens penises because they are used to rape you. It would be from living in an oppressive patriarchy where men are encouraged to always push their bigger bodies over you. In essence, it would be about defense. It also wouldnt be the same because guys are bigger and therefore less vulnerable. This also feeds into guys and their erroneous beliefs that they have some sort of bloodlust they always need to engage in. Its just sick all around.
The title of the game is called 'rapelay.' Great way to blur the lines between rape and consent. I also think this is racist. Are all the women being raped japanese?
These are as sick as 'kill off race' games.
...It's a Japanese game. That takes place in, you know, Japan.
Yeah, but its marketed in america. If the objects of the rape are japanese women it is indeed racially objectifying as it is for any race.
Yeah, but its marketed in america.
It was not marketed in America. It was intended for a Japanese audience only. It was set in Japan, so the women in the game are Japanese.
Also, I would like to recommend an essay by Robin Morgan, which can be found in her anthology Going Too Far: The Personal Chronicle of a Feminist, called "The Politics of Sado-Masochistic Fantasies."
It begins:
"I began work on this subject-- sado-masochistic fantasies-- before I knew such a name for it. I was less than ten years old, but intelligent, curious, and self-respectful enough to be irritated by feeling a vague sexual stimulation at the thought of someone dominating me. I do know that by the time I was thirteen or so, I was consciously trying to combat such thoughts-- not because I thought them perverted (yet) but because it perplexed me that what worked in fantasy was so different from reality. I knew already that when, in real life, anyone had power over me (as all adults do over all children) I liked it not at all; I also knew that if anyone laid a punishing hand on me... I hated their guts and found it utterly unexciting. So what in hell was this fantasy stuff I was getting off on?"
I saw this game for sale in Japan about 4 years ago, and am sad to say that there are newer versions of it on the market now. Rape plots are very common in Japanese dating games/comic books. I agree that there are differences between "rape fantasy" and people who actually rape, but this game is available to very young people (Japanese stores don't really restrict sales by age) and I've always felt like this kind of media is really distorting Japanese teenager's ideas of sex and relationships.
I think what is disturbs me the most is that these types of games are marketed towards young men, while sex education is still greatly kept out of Japanese schools. When I was in college there I had an 18 years old woman ask me how women become pregnant. She had never had a sex-ed class! Why Japanese society, why??
Okay, I am really sorry but Sophia G. 's comments are incredibly harsh, unsympathetic and very triggering.
Sophia G's comments have no positive or intellectual relevance. They do not add to the conversation and from my point of view, are coming from a very defensive place. Why is she defending these trolls who make this stuff?
Idunno, I guess I am just proposing that her comments be removed.
I understand that all opinions are valid, but any positive opinion on rape and sexual assault (virtual world or real world) do not deserve to be validated.
Take the trolls comments down!
Oh, come on. I'm stating my opinion bluntly but I'm hardly trolling. Trolling, according to Wikipedia, is:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
I will admit that my comments could be considered inflammatory and they're probably controversial. But off-topic and irrelevant? And I am solely putting up comments in order to provoke emotional response? Just because you cannot possibly conceive that I have a strong opinion opposite yours for legitimate reasons does not mean that I'm trolling.
For the record, I never said one positive thing about rape and sexual assault. Rape and sexual assault in the virtual world doesn't exist, unless you are talking about harassing a real person with sexually explicit images, messages, and so on through the internet or through an online game. I think all of what I just mentioned there are immoral, demeaning, and cruel. I was defending sexual fantasies that involve rape scenarios, which occur in many, many, many people that consider rape morally wrong.
You know, I don't entirely agree with Sophia G, but she's not being a troll at all.
I accused someone of being a troll once thread (although I did not ask for their posts to be removed) not because they were arguing a point I was offended by, but because they were using circular arguments that made no sense, constantly changing their position to disagree with people, and getting mad when people asked obvious followup questions.
Sophia G is expressing an opinion you don't like but she's expressing it in a totally logical, consistent, and calm way.
I'm finding myself in a strange position here. This game makes me really uncomfortable. So do rape fantasies in general. I think there's something weird about a fantasy about a situation where one person isn't enjoying it. But then, I do have some bondage type fantasies myself. If my boyfriend ties me up I am enjoying it and acting like I'm enjoying it, so its not at all a rape fantasy. But some people would be offended just at the idea of tying up a woman for fun, so where do you draw the line? I can say what I'm turned on by and what I'm not, but that doesn't mean someone else's turnons aren't just as valid.
The game still creeps me out. It just does. But I have to logically admit that people can have fantasies I don't like, and as long as they aren't actually raping anyone, its their business what their fantasies are. This game should probably be played in private though, and generally treated like a hardcore porn movie. Not something to put out on your shelf.
This is worse than shooter games like GTA because you murder indiscriminately. Anyone could get shot and killed. In this game, though, ONLY women get raped. It's promoting hatred and violence towards women.
It's comparable to a hypothetical game where you played a KKK member and went around terrorizing and lynching black people.
It's sick, disgusting, and absolutely should be censored.
Just to clarify, if there was a game where you ran around raping men, women, and anything that moved in a game, it would be okay and you would have no problem with it? o_O;
Equality of the sexes!
To reiterate, yes, I would be fine with it, as long as men and women could both be raped and be rapists. That would be "harmless fantasy," because it's not connotating this notion that women are helpless little objects there to be raped.
Um, well okay then. o_o; I respect your consistency!
I think that it is very important to consider the erotic element of these games, though. The sexual assault is really sanitized and eroticized, at least in what I've seen. Often the victim actually ends up physically enjoying the act (obviously nothing like real life, but that's why it's fantasy). It is more about sex with a kinky edge than real cruelty and violence.
You don't see anything wrong with a game called RAPElay that eroticizes sexual violence? You think it's cool to brainwash stupid young men into thinking girls love getting raped? THIS GAME IS ABOUT RAPING. It's not about BDSM. It's not about rough sex. It's about rape and I would appreciate if you would stop blurring the line between predatory, violent behavior and consentual sex.
Well said!
Quick question about the game: does anyone know if the female character is a role that can be inhabited by a player, or if it's just the male character that can be manipulated while the female character is pre-programmed to be passive?
From what I read in the review, you can only play the male character, and while the female character tries half-heartedly to stop him, he overpowers her.
See, if that's the case, and if it's ONLY the male character who can rape the female character, then this is pretty uncontroversially discriminatory against women (though I suppose one could argue that players of any gender could play the male character-- ugh).
This is an aside, but I think feminists are really wrong to dismiss Catherine MacKinnon's work off-hand (wonder sometimes if any of it was actually read)... her strategy in the context of porn was to take it out of the realm of morality and into the realm of politics, and argue against it from a civil rights perspective-- that it violated the civil rights of women.
Now, I'm not saying I agree, I'm not saying we can characterize all mediated sexual representation in one way, I'm not arguing for censorship or anything of the sort-- BUT I do think there are some civil rights issues involved here.
If a video game-maker put onto market a game where only white characters lynch only black characters, and only the white character could be played, there would be a lawsuit slapped on that company the nanosecond it launched.
Why are feminists not able to see the civil rights implications of this kind of media portrayal?
Apparently there are games where you can rape men, although I never heard of them until today. If they packaged those games together would you be ok with it? I guess that's a fair position, but for me at least I'd still feel just as weird and conflicted about it.
Not sure what you mean by "okay with it"...
Would I think it should go without critical analysis? No.
Would I think the civil rights issues are still there? Probably not-- equal opportunity rape... nice...
"Apparently there are games where you can rape men"
There are. The protagonist is still male though, gay sex is quite popular with women apparently...
I think this game needs to be classified as porn, rather than as a video game. Are there other porn video games? What I mean is its closer to a hardcore porn video than to Halo 3.
I don't like the idea of porn based around rape (I've never seen any myself), but I am ok with the idea of BDSM porn. I think the main difference is that in BDSM everyone is enjoying themselves and in rape porn they are not. I think the idea of someone enjoying watching rape porn makes me very uncomfortable but as long as they're sure that the porn they're consuming uses only consenting adult actors, then its none of my business.
There are tons of video game porn games ... in Japan. They are called hentai (which basically means porn). This game was clearly hentai and came from a hentai developer.
Oh, I thought hentai just meant animated porn, rather than interactive games.
I think if there were a BDSM game with the assumption that all the participants agreed and were play-acting, I'd be more ok with it. This game is much more disturbing because the idea is that you attack random people who have not agreed. Once you start comparing it with BDSM its easy for the line to get blurred and confusing, but I think there is a line there.
The term for these kind of games is actually 'eroge' (from erotic game). Hentai tends to be used more by non-Japanese fans for anime-related porn in general.
They're definitely separate from regular video games, and tend to be associated with animated porn rather than games for the most part.
I don't see this as much different than other games that beat people, shoot people, etc, which I also don't like.
Is anyone concerned about the depiction of women here? I've read comments about fantasies and porn, but hardly nothing on the dehumanization of women and the depiction of females as objects to conquer.
Here's another post about the game being pulled:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/feb/13/amazon-pulls-rape-computer-game
Methinks Miss Kitty needs to take a chill pill.
Just sayin'
I'm curious, why me? Lots of people are arguing in this thread... I'm actually saying I'm torn on this issue, it makes me very uncomfortable but intellectually I'll defend people's right to their private behavior as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. But why a chill pill? That makes it sound like I'm getting angry or stressed and I don't think I am. Are you just upset that I posted a lot? So did several other people. Maybe you can clarify.
What a constructive comment.
I'd really like to know what your reason was for posting that. Its kind of counter-productive to post something like that with no explanation, but if you have a specific criticism of my posts I wouldn't mind hearing it. If your complaint is just that I posted about my opinion a lot in an opinion thread on the internet, I have a hard time caring.
While rape fantasies/games don't necessarily transform people into real-life rapists, studies have shown that they desensitize people to rape. They believe rape should carry less jail time, they tend to believe rape victims less, etc. (I believe Pornified has the stats). I looked up some reviews of this game, and one reviewer said something along the lines of "some people are traumatized by rape." Some?! Kind of a huge understatement, don't you think? So while it may not increase cases of rape, games like this probably contribute to our rape culture and the overall silence on rape.
I agree. The thought that a game can be made from a tramatic experience such as rape is an outrage. It makes rape seem like not a huge issue. When games like these come out, it seems comical. Like that would not happen in "real life" and yet so much fun to play. Venturing into a game of rape is somehow understandable.
While I don't buy that this game could send a psychologically normal man over the edge into abusing real women, I think its still foul.
a. It will not be used strictly by those who are psychologically normal
b. It will not be used strictly by 'men,' who have developed lines between 'virtual' and 'reality', but by impressionable boys.
Of course, we can't structure our whole culture around a small handful of disturbed people and there are laws to prevent certain things from falling into the hands of minors (enforcement being a separate issue). The biggest problem is the well-documented issue of desensitization to rape. Lack of empathy for victims, support for lower sentences and a general loss of the sense of how VERY SERIOUS a crime this is. Alongside child abuse, I find rape the most heinous crimes.
This is a Japanese game. In Japan, there are widely available pornographic comics, pictures, movies, video games, dolls, figurines, and prostitute-experiences that feature a rape theme.
Perhaps you remember the scene in "Lost in Translation" where the Japanese prostitute tries to seduce Bill Murray's character with rape fantasy?
Whereas 90% of American pornstars moan with fake lust during sex scenes, 90% of Japanese pornstars whimper with fake distress during sex scenes. It's not universal there, but it is very common. Of course, what happens in adult entertainment isn't the same as what happens in reality. In American porn, almost all the women are completely shaved and almost every encounter ends with a "money shot", which is uncommon in reality.
Now, to my point. Although this type of fantasy is widespread in Japan, it doesn't seem to harm women, at least not sexually. Since the legal re-classification of porn depicting non-consensual sex from obscene to tolerated, actual incidence of rape and sexual assault has decreased. Molestation of children has also decreased, despite the fact that animated cartoons depicting sex with children are now tolerated. Public indecency, like flashing and voyeurism, has also been reduced:
http://www.hawaii.edu/PCSS/online_artcls/pornography/prngrphy_rape_jp.html
Maybe some substitution or cathartic effect is responsible for the increased safety of women, maybe not. But at least we know that this kind of video game doesn't promote sexual assault, just like we established that the causal link between violent video games and actual violence was bogus.
That doesn't mean that rape porn has turned Japan into some egalitarian utopia. The inequality of women in the labor force is worse in Japan than in America, and maybe seeing women as helpless victims has something to do with that. Japanese society is relatively rigid, and both women and men are locked into their sex roles more strongly than in America.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_Japan
"Although this type of fantasy is widespread in Japan, it doesn't seem to harm women, at least not sexually. Since the legal re-classification of porn depicting non-consensual sex from obscene to tolerated, actual incidence of rape and sexual assault has decreased."
I'm guessing you mean that it doesn't harm women sexually, in the criminal sense. Regularly depicting women's non-consent turn into arousal during sex seems like it could certainly hurt a woman's sexual well-being. Also, reported rape may have decreased but that doesn't necessarily mean that there are fewer sexual assaults. It's possible that there are fewer stranger-in-the-bushes rape while acquaintance rape (which are rarely reported because it's nearly impossible to get a conviction) have actually increased due to a blurred line between consensual and non consensual sex.
Or, it very well may be the case that the statistics are accurate and they truly have decreased either in response to the easing of regulations on pornography or others factors. I don't necessarily think fantasy is harmful, but I do think a cultural obsession with forced sex (or initially forced) is worthy of examination.
This makes me think of an example: if one race of people stopped lynching another race of people in real life because they could watch a video showing them doing it, does it still make it okay? No, because they need to drop the impulse to do it at all and quit getting off on it. Its sad that Japans porn has been corrupted by threads of rape in their pornographic displays. This makes it hard for women to get a foothold in the creation of their own porn in their industry. And I dont for one second believe that this doesnt affect how females view their own sexuality.I think this is subconsciously intimidating for many of the women in Japan and also affects their ideas surrounding sexual freedom and empowerment.
I'm surprised by some of the comments. There's a huge difference between acting out a rape fantasy with a consenting partner. This is about raping random women. How is this ok? I think constant violence in the media desensitizes people to it. People are already desensitized to rape, as made obvious by the culture. I don't see how this is helping. Yea, I read that making graphic hardcore porn available decreases sex crimes (reported ones!) but this isn't porn, you're basically acting it out with nonconsensual people. I'd also detest it if men could be raped to. I don't care, I don't think this kind of thing is approprite AT ALL.
Exactly. Who says this is for the adult gamer who understands the difference between consent and non-consent and understands the difference between their rape fantasy and actual rape. You can fantasize about raping someone and not know how to handle it except by actually raping someone. Unless youre going to say all actual rape in the world is consentual and is actually a turn-on to those it happens to, then you cant say this game isnt an outlet for those who play it and become desensitized to it, or who feel that its not wrong, like maybe its a joke. You cant say that actual rapists wouldnt play this game as an outlet. Anyways, I hardly doubt that anyone thats into rape fantasy really needs a game like this that could fall into the hands of the wrong crowd and encourage an already objectifying culture to take it even further. I think that rape fantasy demographic understands that the girls in these videos (why is it only male on female rape) arent secretely enjoying it like happens in consentual sex play.
Ok, I'm not in favor of anything being banned, and I don't know what is going on in the brains of people who fantasize about rape. I just know that I want them far far away from me personally, like seriously, if you like to play this game let's just stop being friends now, sort of thing.
I also wonder why there isn't a video game where you can take revenge on rapists and torture and kill them? I would totally play that. If I knew how to program video games I would make it myself.
So true. Or child molestors and serial killers be tortured to no end.
These kinds of games are extremely common in Japan. Along with hentai, there's a huge amount of sex-games and the scenario does not strike me as unusual.
I played a game that was called "Princess" something which was totally girly and at one point the Princess got captured by some bandits and I think she was sexually molested. The graphics were really old so you don't see anything, just a static headshot of the girl talking but her dialogue is like "No...oh no, don't do that ... ah, ah, ah."
Gross. But it is super usual in Japan.
Btw, for people who think the game will fall in the hands of teeangers because teenagers are the ones who consume video games that is definitely not the case, not even in the United States.
In 2oo6, the Entertainment Software Association released a study that said the average age of a game player is thirty-three. The average age of the most frequent game purchaser is forty years of age. It has been steadily going up for the past few years.
In Japan, where this game is made, older people (which we don't regularly associate in Western countries with gaming)play tons of video games. They also consume lots of comic books and animated movies.
So the idea that this game is marketed at teenagers does not compute. Just because it has cartoon characters it does not mean teenagers will buy it. My bet is the purchaser of this game is closer to his forties than high school.
I think that part of the reason for the increase in the average age of the 'gamer' is the same as the increase in female players. It comes from the same study, if I'm not mistaken. As the casual game market has increased so has the average age of people who game. Women now constitute the majority (65%) of online gamers in the US, 55% of all players, according to NPD Group, and according to Entertainment Software Association, make up 40% of the total gaming market. Consumer Electronics Association also released a study in 2006 showing that 65% of women aged 25 - 34 report playing games compared to 35% of men in that bracket. The types of games being played account for part of the age increase in gaming. Casual gaming accounts for part of these statistics. Of those purchasing games, however, for both consoles and the PC, the demographic remains much the same - younger males. The average age at purchase, 40ish, is slightly misleading regarding who it is that is actually playing the game. Older folks are playing too, to be sure, but they purchase games more often in part because they have funds that their teenagers don't have. That is, parents buy games for their kids. So while the numbers might seem to suggest that it wouldn't be sold or played by teens, it isn't necessarily the case.
A listing on Amazon, even if a kid didn't have the cash or card to buy it with, still introduces the game - and any mildly tech-savvy teenager these days knows the wonders of torrents. Why buy when you can download?
I've read more than one study that indicates the gaming population is aging. Which makes sense. I am a gamer and so is my husband and we've left the teenage phase long ago.
But anyway, the point is that just because a pornographic video game could be obtained by a teenager, that's no reason to call for the destruction or banning of all pornographic games. You could make the same argument about pornography in general(a teenager could find it) but it doesn't really make sense.
This is an odd situation because hentai games are not easily available in the US. You can't just go to Best Buy and get it. So the only thing you can do is: 1) Limit where they can be found (through specialized sex-shops and hentai retailers) 2) Ask for careful labeling of the product. That still leaves the underground market free to move products and you could still download stuff off a torrent.
We're probably mostly covered for 1 and 2. But then there's the question of Amazon. Amazon wasn't directly selling the game. It was one of the many "shops" that can sell stuff through them. I wonder if there are Amazon shops that sell pornographic movies or hentai movies? How do you regulate it when you are not the shop, you are merely the online portal that sells this stuff. Do you veto certain shops because they might sell questionable products?
For example, with a quick search I found Amazon sold the pornographic hentai movie La Blue Girl through their sellers (not directly through them). They also have (through their stores, not directly) Penthouse videos and other pornographic titles.
Amazon, and other online retailers, aim to sell everything. By selling everything and by the online nature and their structure, can sell stuff that we would normally have only been able to find behind a brown paper sleeve at the magazine shop or the sex shop.
So what do you do in these cases? Should Amazon stop featuring stores that sell pornography? Not feature pornographic video games for sale? What's the solution?
I just found this thread in a bit of cold medicine-induced boredom and delirium, so forgive me if my thoughts don't flow well.
Not trying to stir up trouble or anything, but I'm curious about something I feel hasn't really been addressed yet: all those commenting on how disturbed they are by this game and rape fantasies in general seem (to me, at least) to be approaching from the perspective that the fantasy is all on the part of men wanting to control women. What are your thoughts on women who have fantasies about being raped and might want to play this while imagining themselves in the role of victim?
That's an interesting question. I know most yaoi consumers (pornographic male-male) are female (http://www.villagevoice.com/2006-10-31/news/drawn-together/).
However, I have no idea for this type of scenario what the male/female breakdown looks like for consumers.
I think your question is valid in general, but not in application to the game in question. If rape-fantasies are common among Japanese women, it stands to reason that there would be games available in which women played women characters who were raped (someone above mentioned the game Princess, so perhaps it is common, but I don't know). The point is that *this* game is about a male character raping a female one, nothing more and nothing less.
I really don't understand why so many of us are comparing this game to rape fantasy. It's a game, not porn. While some people are turned on by rape fantasies, this game is not intended for that purpose. It's supposed to be fun not sexual. By confusing the two, I feel like we're exusing people who play this, and they do not deserve that.
Actually, it is a hentai game which is a Japanese form of game-porn. Most hentai games have very little gameplay abilities and function more like flash animation sequences.
No, the game itself is, in fact, pornographic, with the "sex" scenes being very graphic, in the style of animated pornography.
I think you don't really know the history of the "rape fantasy". When rape fantasies were a fad, around the 1970's, they weren't really about rape since the woman having them would give consent. Fantasizing about a man (or whomever) coming in your house in the night and having sex with you *is* a sexual fantasy. Fantasizing about having power over someone and dehumanizing him or her via sexual intercourse(which is the premise of rape) is a sign of something pathological.
The people who made and play this game, have issues. And I'm not saying that to be snarky.
I've read about this particular game before. One thing nobody's brought up yet is that, in the game, if you rape a particular victim repeatedly, she develops Stockholm Syndrome and starts falling for you...
Jesus...
Reminder to self: do not vacation in Tokyo this summer.
From a review I read of this game:
"To some extent, RapeLay represents a substantial evolution in hentai gaming: diverse, real-time, interactive sexual intercourse. But let's be honest. In RapeLay, you rape women in the most abusive manner possible and the women learn to like it. Well-programmed or not, I can't get behind that."
http://www.honestgamers.com/systems/content.php?review_id=4775
Incidentally, there is only one way to "lose" the game and see one of two possible "endings". If you get one of the girls pregnant and don't force her to get an abortion, when the baby is born, the girls will either throw you in front of a train, or stab you to death with a knife.
Can we not get this on the news networks!! I hope amazon actually reads our emails!
They must have removed this game! I emailed them and they replied the same day stating that they did not carry this game and have no future plans to do so. Does anyone know? I tried to find it, but no luck.
They have, indeed, removed it.
They have removed the game. Not as an attempt to promote, but I've listed a few other games which are. As far as I remember, though, most of them are sold by affiliate sellers and not Amazon itself. 7 Sins is the exception, I believe. In 7 Sins you have the option of drugging and raping your date. Charming, to be sure.
Mostly, I feel like making an overall comment in response to the discussion I've seen here about the distinction between video games and reality...whether games (or other media) promoting this rape culture actually increases incidents of rape or not, and lack of surprise because of the games origin of Japan.
In true nerd fashion, I've done a literal metric fuck-ton of research on video games. It's what my site is about, what my thesis is about, and what I want my career to have something to do with. Not because I hate games - but because I've been a gamer since I had an Atari. One of my fondest childhood memories is of when my dad got me a Nintendo.
The thing about video games that makes them unique and separates them from other forms of media, is the interactive nature inherent in games. A lot of people have hypothesized and studied the potential effects that this has on the influence of games. Because of the interaction that games provide...the unique opportunity to be in the world your viewing on the screen, games, arguably, have more influence on the consumer than other forms of visual media. All of that talk about video game violence and children is not completely unfounded. They can and do increase aggressive tendencies, which isn't to say that we should make them all about kittens and cake. More that it's something to keep in mind. So, keeping this in mind:
Images and even stories of rape have been found, after repeated exposure, to change attitudes about rape - in men particularly. These results were found through assessing participant viewpoints on a variety of questions which judge attitudes toward women and rape before and then after showing repeated images of sexual violence. As far as I recall, this type of study has been repeated quite a bit...always finding the same thing. Which is that repeated viewing of sexual violence has been found to actually increase participants acceptance of rape and sexual violence. That is, they find it more permissible than before viewing these images.
I can only imagine, then, combining the two - an increase in aggressive influence - and a permissible view of rape and negative attitudes towards women and rape victims works in more salient ways.
The lines between reality and fiction are always blurry. This, I think, holds even more true for video games. I know, for example, that when I play a fighting game or even a video game in general, my adrenaline gets sooo much higher than when I watch something on tv. Not to mention the potential for triggering that can happen for those of us who're "survivors" or what not. Of course we wouldn't be likely to pick up a title like Rapelay and think it was a super idea to play it. But...if I were playing a game and that sprung up...well...
I read a comment that mentioned Japan. And while there is a decent amount of stuff coming out of Japan that I'm none-too-fond of...one thing that I've thought about concerning this is that, for the sake of not sensationalizing this stuff or blaming it on other cultures, it's important to realize that what we see from Japan, is what people have brought over from Japan. Japan has an extensive porn culture to say the least. But, what makes it over here from Japan? Pretty much the sickest stuff they have to offer. To me, that says more about our culture that this is the stuff that people get from Japan and that enjoys widespread popularity: tentacle-rape and no-means-yes.
On a more basely emotional level:
I think that this game...and others like it...are disgusting. The whole thing makes me sick. Just like the gratuitous rape scene in the Hills Have Eyes and the friggin 15-or-so minute long rape scene apparently in the movie Irreversible. Way to feed into the rape culture, assholes (that is, the game/movie creators, not this community!! I love this place!)
On the Japan thing, I don't know, Japan is just very different. Porn is really out there. Even harmless animated cartoons and manga like Ranma can feature cross-dressing, sex changing and glimpses of nudity on a regular basis without batting an eyelash. And in Dragonball you've got Master Roshi chasing after the girls in the dirty old man role. Never mind Sailor Moon and her schoogirl outfits.
The whole Manga look with the big eyes and childish features ... it's not something we are used to.
I know somebody on feministing was shocked by a Japanese love hotel which featured rooms such as what seemed a carrousel and a classroom to playout sex fantasies.
So I think that you are right in a way: when people bring over stuff from Japan it can cause a dissonant effect. But I don't think it's "our" culture likes really sick tentacle-rape (most of the stuff that makes it into the mainstream are non-pornographic cartoons, and the dialogue and any nudity is censored). It's the juxtaposition of another culture and our culture. What happens when you drop The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife in a Western market, out of the blue?
At one point you say "Of course we wouldn't be likely to pick up a title like Rapelay and think it was a super idea to play it." That is true. But I have played seemingly benign Japanese games which suddenly had a questionable instance of dialogue or nudity. But it's questionable for me. Someone in Japan probably thinks I'm silly.
So you know, what happens when you come in contact with Japanese pop culture and suddenly yes, there is something triggering there that you did not expect?
I know, I probably am not making any sense. I am generally ambivalent about Japanese products because while I loved reading and watching Ranma, there's also stuff that made me very uncomfortable.
Btw, I think Irreversible is another cup of tea. Like the opening scene, which is a hideous beating, the rape scene in Irreversible is supposed to show you the horror of violence. I have not met a single person who found it titillating.
In fact, I saw it with several people, including macho-guy who went in thinking that maybe a pretty girl in a sexy dress is asking for some unwanted attention to him saying no one, ever, deserves anything even remotely close to what takes place in that scene. I mean, this macho-guy was weeping by the time the scene was over.
'I've never met anyone who found it remotely titillating'
Urm, actually, have you heard of the phenomeon of uploading rape scenes from films to youtube? The scene from Irreversible has been uploaded hundreds of times, on accounts which are totally made up of rape scenes from movies.
I guess its too much to hope that they come with commentary about how rape is bad?
I emailed them and they responded that they didn't sell the game and didn't intend to... ?
I thought I could handle this, but I was wrong. My stomach is churning, and I have tears in my eyes. Happy Valentine's Day - what a world.
Since when are violent video games NOT linked to real aggression in children? You guys all know that there's a LOT of evidence that says it is, and that , like how the tobacco company paid their way against reports being really focused on, the video game industry (which is HUGE) does the same?
Everyone in this post talking about how games don't affect people seriously needs to check their facts and not just spread old wives tales.
http://www.apa.org/science/psa/sb-anderson.html
You all will deny science, psychology, and studies when it is not congruent with what you want to believe. Completely ignorant. I'm unsurprised that it's just being spouted and repeated, constantly, but no one has any proof of this.
But then again, hey! Choice-feminism means we don't have to THINK!! It's a choice :)!
"Myths and Facts
Myth 1. Violent video game research has yielded very mixed results.
Facts: Some studies have yielded nonsignificant video game effects, just as some smoking studies failed to find a significant link to lung cancer. But when one combines all relevant empirical studies using meta-analytic techniques, five separate effects emerge with considerable consistency. Violent video games are significantly associated with: increased aggressive behavior, thoughts, and affect; increased physiological arousal; and decreased prosocial (helping) behavior. Average effect sizes for experimental studies (which help establish causality) and correlational studies (which allow examination of serious violent behavior) appear comparable (Anderson & Bushman, 2001).
Myth 2. The studies that find significant effects are the weakest methodologically.
Facts: Methodologically stronger studies have yielded the largest effects (Anderson, in press). Thus, earlier effect size estimates —based on all video game studies— probably underestimate the actual effect sizes.
Myth 3. Laboratory experiments are irrelevant (trivial measures, demand characteristics, lack external validity).
Facts: Arguments against laboratory experiments in behavioral sciences have been successfully debunked many times by numerous researchers over the years. Specific examinations of such issues in the aggression domain have consistently found evidence of high external validity. For example, variables known to influence real world aggression and violence have the same effects on laboratory measures of aggression (Anderson & Bushman, 1997).
Myth 4. Field experiments are irrelevant (aggression measures based either on direct imitation of video game behaviors (e.g., karate kicks) or are normal play behaviors.
Facts: Some field experiments have used behaviors such as biting, pinching, hitting, pushing, and pulling hair, behaviors that were not modeled in the game. The fact that these aggressive behaviors occur in natural environments does not make them "normal" play behavior, but it does increase the face validity (and some would argue the external validity) of the measures.
Myth 5. Correlational studies are irrelevant.
Facts: The overly simplistic mantra, "Correlation is not causation," is useful when teaching introductory students the risks in too-readily drawing causal conclusions from a simple empirical correlation between two measured variables. However, correlational studies are routinely used in modern science to test theories that are inherently causal. Whole scientific fields are based on correlational data (e.g., astronomy). Well conducted correlational studies provide opportunities for theory falsification. They allow examination of serious acts of aggression that would be unethical to study in experimental contexts. They allow for statistical controls of plausible alternative explanations.
Myth 6. There are no studies linking violent video game play to serious aggression.
Facts: High levels of violent video game exposure have been linked to delinquency, fighting at school and during free play periods, and violent criminal behavior (e.g., self-reported assault, robbery).
Myth 7. Violent video games affect only a small fraction of players.
Facts: Though there are good theoretical reasons to expect some populations to be more susceptible to violent video game effects than others, the research literature has not yet substantiated this. That is, there is not consistent evidence for the claim that younger children are more negatively affected than adolescents or young adults or that males are more affected than females. There is some evidence that highly aggressive individuals are more affected than nonaggressive individuals, but this finding does not consistently occur. Even nonaggressive individuals are consistently affected by brief exposures. Further research will likely find some significant moderators of violent video game effects, because the much larger research literature on television violence has found such effects and the underlying processes are the same. However, even that larger literature has not identified a sizeable population that is totally immune to negative effects of media violence.
Myth 8. Unrealistic video game violence is completely safe for adolescents and older youths.
Facts: Cartoonish and fantasy violence is often perceived (incorrectly) by parents and public policy makers as safe even for children. However, experimental studies with college students have consistently found increased aggression after exposure to clearly unrealistic and fantasy violent video games. Indeed, at least one recent study found significant increases in aggression by college students after playing E-rated (suitable for everyone) violent video games.
Myth 9. The effects of violent video games are trivially small.
Facts: Meta-analyses reveal that violent video game effect sizes are larger than the effect of second hand tobacco smoke on lung cancer, the effect of lead exposure to I.Q. scores in children, and calcium intake on bone mass. Furthermore, the fact that so many youths are exposed to such high levels of video game violence further increases the societal costs of this risk factor (Rosenthal, 1986).
Myth 10. Arousal, not violent content, accounts for video game induced increases in aggression.
Facts: Arousal cannot explain the results of most correlational studies because the measured aggression did not occur immediately after the violent video games were played. Furthermore, several experimental studies have controlled potential arousal effects, and still yielded more aggression by those who played the violent game.
Myth 11. If violent video games cause increases in aggression, violent crime rates in the U.S. would be increasing instead of decreasing.
Facts: Three assumptions must all be true for this myth to be valid: (a) exposure to violent media (including video games) is increasing; (b) youth violent crime rates are decreasing; (c) video game violence is the only (or the primary) factor contributing to societal violence. The first assumption is probably true. The second is not true, as reported by the 2001 Report of the Surgeon General on Youth Violence (Figure 2-7, p. 25). The third is clearly untrue. Media violence is only one of many factors that contribute to societal violence and is certainly not the most important one. Media violence researchers have repeatedly noted this."
Once again, I beg of you all, to stop thinking that fantasies and fiction exist in a vacuum; in some magical world that is not affected by the world we live in nor does it affect how WE think and feel and DO.
Before people get ridiculously defensive on me, I do not mean to intend anyone with fantasies that could be deemed sexually violent. While I do believe it is important to think about the contributing factors about this, to never stop turning ideas over in your head and thinking critically about things even if they make you HAPPY, it doesn't mean you should think you're a horrible person or even stop your fantasies (it's kind of hard to do that, anyway).
Just stop. Spreading. Misinformation. About video games and media and how the supposed noneffects they have on people. And no, your anecdotal evidence of "I play GTA and I am not violent!" won't cut it with me. You are an adult, you can discern, you have discretion, and even with all of that you are STILL affected and influenced. To say you are impervious is to say you are inhuman.
This doesn't mean we should censor all media and video games. This DOES mean that there should be serious discussion going on about these things, serious criticizing, and there should be no problem with someone who publicly outcries against this stuff. They are not trying to trample on your freedom to have a clitboner.
Thank you for putting into words what I feel when I read these comments!
ps. I love 'clitboner" lol
Why is it that giving birth empowers her enough to throw you under a train? Why do you have to force her to have an abortion? Because a raped woman would only want to keep the child?
Wow, this certainly has generated a large amount of comments.
Here's a link to look at analysis of other stories about the game.
My biggest concerns with the game were:
1) the lack of consent or agency from any victim
2)the disenfranchisement/disempowerment of the women from personal decisions (abortion/having a child)
I found that both of these seperated the use of the game from any sexual fantasy (whether BDSM, rape, or Cops'n'Robbers) which would be re-enacted with another consenting person.
Another note: In my opinion, it is different from the GTA set of games that multiple people in the BoingBoing post comments held up to defend Rapelay (Heather Riot caught this too) because in GTA you're a bad-guy who is basically being an arse to other bad-guys (we won't get into how the females are represented). Here it is a person who has not consented to this violence (which is somewhat implied when one joins a criminal organization).
Nerdisms and Heather Riot, I've found all of your comments to be full of critical THINKING. Thanks for this dialogue!