I find it rather interesting that in my time reading feministing (which I admit is relatively brief) I have seen absolutely no discussion of female ejaculation, or what is usually called squirting. If there has been discussion that I've missed, please bring it to my attention. My reason for writing about this is because I've become more and more frustrated with the majority of conversations I hear about squirting. These conversations usually come from a popular radio show in Los Angeles that deals with relationship and sex issues (I'm not going to name it because I feel somehow that could bring about problems) that is, not surprisingly, hosted by two men. However, I hear similar discussions among men and women I know if the issue of squirting happens to come up (which it has on multiple occasions.) Usually it goes something like this:
"I saw this video where this guy claimed he could make any girl squirt. He even demonstrated on like 6 different chicks."
Or a caller from the radio show:
"Do you have any advice on how I could make a girl squirt?"
The conversation continues how you might expect: treating women that squirt as some novelty item. There seems to be this obsession among men about making women squirt. In my experience, I can only come to two conclusions as to why this is.
The first is that men believe when a woman squirts, it means that she's
experiencing a mind-blowing, insanely powerful orgasm. While I find it
hard to believe that this is the cause considering in nearly all of
these conversations, the experience of the actual woman squirting is
never discussed, I suppose it is a possibility. If this is the case,
men are greatly mistaken. As a woman who squirts, or ejaculates, or
whichever term you prefer, I would like to offer my perspective.
Granted it is only one perspective, but considering one is at least an
improvement upon considering none at all. Yes, some of my best and
most powerful orgasms have resulted in me squirting; yet, some of my
best and most powerful orgasms haven't. At the same time, some of the
orgasms that have resulted in me squirting, have actually been much
less enjoyable than others that haven't. Some have been uncomfortable
and even painful at times. Squirting is a physical response to certain
stimulation, and can occur when that stimulation doesn't actually feel
all that pleasurable. Rare, yes, but it does happen.
I feel
that I am living proof that if men assume squirting equates to mind
blowing pleasure in every woman out there, they are wrong. If they
bothered to actually ask us about how it felt, instead of treating it
like a show, they might know this. I know that I'm over-generalizing
men into one category, and I'm sure there are those who have engaged in
conversation like this, but I believe the majority of them haven't.
Which leads to my second theory, the one I believe is more plausible.
That men view making a woman squirt as a sign of their virility, as a
means to reinforce their manhood, and as a means to gain status. It's
as if making a woman squirt is a conquest. It has little to do with
the actual experience of the woman, and much more with result itself.
If this is the case, I am incredibly disturbed. This is, in many ways,
one of the worst kinds of objectification. Using someone's body and
sexual experiences solely to make you feel better about yourself.
Whenever this is the case, I believe it's incredibly degrading. Please
don't interpret this as me condemning sex purely for sexual
satisfaction. Sexual satisfaction and psychological reassurance are
two very different things.
When the only thing a man cares
about is making a woman squirt, he takes the woman out of her own
sexual response and experience. It becomes an end to be reached,
rather than a possible outcome of a woman's pleasure. If a man wants
to have a goal that has to do with a woman's sexual experience, it
should be one of pleasuring that woman, regardless of the outcome.
Whether she squirts or not should be far less important than the actual
pleasure a woman experiences. If she squirts, that's great, that's one
way her body can express sexual pleasure. If she doesn't, that's great
too. Maybe her body simply doesn't respond that way, or maybe it just
didn't this time. Either way, it's more or less irrelevant. The
ultimate goal of pleasure was attained.
This wasn't meant in
any way to diminish squirting as a legitimate way some women experience
pleasure, and it certainly was not meant to shame women who squirt, or
who don't. The way that women feel about squirting is a subject that
is just as complex and deserves its own post, or posts. For now, I
just wanted to examine the way that the majority of men I've
experienced view squirting. I would love to hear about your reactions
and your experiences.
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There is also a disturbing amount, albeit a minority, of young men who believe that to make a woman bleed proves they 'fucked her good and proper'. They boast about it, as if it is some kind of milestone.
I think our porn culture certainly makes women seem like a kleenex or something. And there's a philosophy which says that if a woman doesn't enjoy being treated like that, there's something wrong with her, she's not 'sexual'.
"There is also a disturbing amount, albeit a minority, of young men who believe that to make a woman bleed proves they 'fucked her good and proper'"
I think that belief is very prevalent in Jamaica.
I've "squirted" only a few times in my life. The first time was VERY embarrassing and I actually had no idea if I had accidentally peed instead! The boyfriend didn't understand at first either and his reaction was not a supportive one. I felt quite ashamed and horrified.
I had actually never HEARD of female ejaculation before this but even after learning about it I still felt mortified. Everything that I found seemed to suggest that this was a "rare" and "strange" thing that "some" women did. Nothing that made me feel normal or sexy or GOOD.
It's interesting now for me to read things like you posted about men WANTING to make women squirt. I haven't done so in years, perhaps because of the discomfort and awkwardness that I felt the few times that it did happen.
It's definitely not something that is discussed enough and I would personally love to learn more about it in a safe, feminist environment!
My squirting seemed to be associated with orgasm and wasn't the end-all of pleasure but was certainly a positive thing.
I've written on a few comments on various posts regarding sex and orgasm, about the fact that I ejaculate.
It's a g-spot related experience for me. I haven't had sex with a man who wasn't interested in making me cum, making me feel great, with his actions- anything less is not acceptable to me. Thankfully the few partners I've had since I became sexually active 24 years ago have all been great lovers.
"For now, I just wanted to examine the way that the majority of men I've experienced view squirting."
You can't speak for how the majority of men think about this. As for the men you've experienced, I suggest you look for better men.
I agree that we shouldn't just leap to the conclusion that the majority of men who are only interested in squirting/female ejaculation are only interested in it for their own self-worth. Making the assumption that the majority of a gender falls into the negative category, female ejaculation makes me feel more manly, instead of the positive category, I want her to feel good, works the same way as when men assume something negative about the female gender. I don't think it's a fair generalization. It's a generalization which can lead stereotyping.
How the media may show squirting and the male reaction to it may be negative, but to be honest my only experience with squirting is through porn or Dr. Drew's "Loveline". I've never heard someone call in to "high-five" the fact that their girlfriend squirted (usually they just don't understand what happened), nor have I really ever heard anyone talk about it in their own encounters. I've had many orgasms and never squirted, and would be interested to try it if I could get my body to do it.
Interesting you should bring up loveline, because that was the radio show I was referring to. And, I've heard time after time after time on that show callers calling in bragging about certain moves they claim can make any girl squirt. Dr. Drew doesn't buy into that, but he also never challenges these men to consider why they feel this is such an incredible accomplishment. They do often reiterate that squirting is nothing to be ashamed of for women, so I'm glad for that, but I'd still like to hear them actually address why so many callers are fascinated with making a girl squirt.
"If they bothered to actually ask us about how it felt...."
In case you are asking how some of us feel when we squirt-
for me it's the ultimate orgasmic experience.
We must be from different generations cause I witnessed my mothers gen having to claim their sexuality and demand they are pleasured-
so news that men are asking, "How can i make my girlfriend (or fuck buddy for that matter) squirt?"
Is a huge step in the right direction.
The answer could be, "Ask her. Ask her if she ever has and it it rocks her boat. Ask your partner what she likes sexually"
I was asking, and I think that's great that it's such a pleasurable experience for you. My point was just that it is not always the ultimate pleasure for every woman every time. And I would agree with you if the men I heard asking about squirting were talking about it with regards to how it made the woman feel, but that just hasn't been the case in my experience. It's usually not, "how can I make my girlfriend or fuck buddy squirt?" It's, "how can I make a girl squirt?" He's asking about a hypothetical girl, any girl, because it's not about the actual girl in his life, it's about the achievement of making any girl squirt.
Although I don't claim to be a typical male, for me female ejaculation is simply a curiosity, nothing more.
When I first learned of the concept, I approached my SO with the information. She expressed interest in experimentation. I applied the appropriate g-spot stimulation and she squirted. (Actually dribbled is more like it.) She didn't like the sensation that she was going to pee, so we left it at that.
Granted I discuss sex with other men infrequently, but I am not aware that a significant percentage of men "obsess" over squirting.
I do think there is a problem with the way our culture responds to squirting--since it hasn't quite made it into mainstream sexual consciousness, its existance is treated either as a shameful little secret or some kind of sexual holy grail, niether of which get to the point.
The point, of course, is mutual sexual pleasure, and that is a really complicated area that I am always leary of generalizations about. Different couples like different things, and different partners like different things for different reasons--seeking pleasure through sexual reassurance isn't necesarily degrading--in fact, its a pretty normal part of sex relationships, just usually milder (liking compliments on beauty or behavior, and being how good something feels is a pretty normal, healthy part of sex for a lot of people).
Its not necesarily objectifying to like certain things that your partner doesn't like as much--it just means openness, communication and understanding are essential to a positive sexual relationship.
Unfortunately, like many other elements of sex, the first place many men encounter it is by watching porn -- where squirting IS treated as a misogynist objectification, some kind of sexual benchmark (because in mainstream porn, most things are treated that way.) I think call-in radio shows suffer from many of the same problems that porn-media does, and aren't a good barometer of human sexuality.
I'm not going to get into how some men/porn have made this into a neat trick to try on women, people have already covered that well enough.
I had run into the squirting in misogynist forms, but I was really surprised that I did it the first time I was fingered. I'm pretty sure I've never squirted from clit stimulation though, only g-spot. When it first happened, I freaked out because I thought I had peed or he'd find it gross, but he actually wasn't bothered at all. (Maybe that's because it was his first time with a girl/he had never watched porn?) Either way, he just checked to make sure I was ok since I was panicking and reassured me it didn't weird it out. He actually found it kind of cool because it meant that I had enjoyed the experience and he'd been nervous, but he never put it as some sort of manly-man accomplishment. And now it seems like he uses it as a signal to keep repeating whatever motion he's doing and gives me multiples.
But yes, if this happens to anyone else, you are NOT a freak/abnormal/slutty, I HATE that that's the message women get about squirting. I've known people who think it's gross for women to get "too" wet-needless to say they didn't like the idea of female ejaculation at all. (But of course blowjobs with swallowing were completely normal and a woman who didn't swallow was frigid.) Honestly, it reminds me of the period = shameful idea a lot of people have. Why the hell is there such shame around anything that comes from a woman's body?
Thanks for this. We need to remember that everyone is an individual. What we are talking about here is a sort of mainstream idea that some men (and women) are buying into but certainly not everybody.
...and since you went there about swallowing: when am I going to see a porn site and video series dedicated to men swallowing a bunch of squirt juices from random women? Not that I want to see that, but I'm just curious if it exists and if it doesn't then why?
Of course everyone's an individual, and everyone's experience is going be unique. And I tried to ensure that I made it clear that I realized much of what I was saying was generalizing and that each person is going to have his or her individual beliefs and experiences with this. This is simply a perspective I've noticed to be pretty prevalent among people my age (early 20s.) But by no means is it the only way men view squirting, and it might not even be as prevalent as I believe it to be outside of my own experiences.
Yes, of course you did make it clear that people are individuals :)
My comment, was more for the menfolk lurking...with the recent "porn?" posting, "the boyfriend and porn" and now this...I thought that maybe some fellas out there might be feeling like we are coming down kinda rough, lol.
But thanks for this posting. This and the other threads have been very enlightening...
Well, since you asked... ;-)
One does wonder if this discussion leaves any place for men to be happy in how their sexuality interacts with female sexuality, as the spectrum seems to run roughly in order:
1) A man who doesn't care if his partner comes is an arrogant asshole;
2) A man who tries but whose partner doesn't come is inept;
3)
4) A man who takes pride in being able to "make women come" is an arrogant asshole. (and we've come full circle.)
Yes, "3" is "this space intentionally left blank." Surely there is a middle ground in there somewhere between 2 and 4, where one can be genuinely interested in pleasing one's partner, and happy when achieving same?
1) A man who doesn't care if his partner comes is an arrogant asshole;
2) A man who tries but whose partner doesn't come is inept;
3)
4) A man who takes pride in being able to "make women come" is an arrogant asshole. (and we've come full circle.)
I do think that there can be a number three. But, I also think the numbers 2 and 4 should be slightly adjusted. I think it's unfair to always blame a man who tries to make us come if it doesn't happen. I don't think it means he's inept, perhaps there's just not enough communication going on in that partnership. Each woman is so different in how she receives pleasure and what will make her come that I don't blame men who can't always make it happen. If they're trying they are definitely doing something right.
No. 4, in my opinion, is a little harsh. Taking some pride in being able to bring pleasure to your sexual partners isn't necessarily negative, and that's not what I was implying in the op. I was more focusing on the men that take pride in eliciting this specific response from a woman, with no regards as to her pleasure. If men are interested in making women squirt because they think that means the woman is having an incredible orgasm, they're just making an assumption that might not be correct. I don't think they're doing anything destructive, however.
So I think the middle ground is when men care about their partner's pleasure and enjoy that they're bringing pleasure, regardless of how each specific woman responds to that pleasure. Just appreciating each woman's response for itself and not expecting a show like they see in porn. I think the same should go for women and how they view giving pleasure to men. It's more complicated than most of us like, because it actually requires communication between sexual partners, but in the end, I believe the results would be so much more satisfying for both.
"...and since you went there about swallowing: when am I going to see a porn site and video series dedicated to men swallowing a bunch of squirt juices from random women? Not that I want to see that, but I'm just curious if it exists and if it doesn't then why?"
That might actually exist. I'm pretty sure a lesbian version already does, actually...
Your comment reminded me of one of the skits from the Vagina Monologues about an elderly lady remembering when she was a teenager and got a car seat wet when she was aroused, and the boy she was with was disgusted. It was about how that memory has made her feel dirty and ashamed of herself, and has kept her from exploring her sexuality. Very sad. I think it was called, "The Flood."
I agree with the conquest bit.
Apologies if this entry is a bit explicit:
Some men fixate on the volume of their ejaculate, how forcefully it comes, etc. etc. Since the exit force (and some sexologists say the actual pleasure experienced) of ejaculation is somewhat correlated to the strength of a man's pineal gland, it can seem to them to be some register of their "virility." (one more thing for guys to worry about) So men may be subconsciously falling for the mythos of #1 -- that a female ejaculation, especially a strong one, is a sign of a stronger orgasm.
But it may also simply be a fixation on what is one of the few (the only?) visual means of telling a woman has orgasmed. Men's bodies are rather communicative of desire -- erection, ejaculation, etc. -- while women's bodies are generally harder to read.
I've read in a sex health magazine that it is estimated that only about 25% of women experience pronounced ejaculation on a frequent basis -- hence the mystery, hence the fascination? but any social "obsession" with it is probably more the illusion of sex talk shows, which tend to draw attention to sexual subjects that few people know about, of which this is certainly one.
Ahrg.. I'm sorry i didn't read your comment so I ended up repeating your point about visibility.. stupid I know!
"Which leads to my second theory, the one I believe is more plausible. That men view making a woman squirt as a sign of their virility, as a means to reinforce their manhood, and as a means to gain status. It's as if making a woman squirt is a conquest. It has little to do with the actual experience of the woman, and much more with result itself. "
Perhaps so. More specifically I think at the root of this 'obsession' is the male-centered notion of an orgasm as something visible (as it is is men). Of course, there are plenty of ways to see when a woman orgasms during sex, but not all of them are as 'visible' as when a man comes (alternatively, not all of them 'fit' with male-oriented notions of phallic sexuality). I think the obsession with squirting is at least partially a male projection of what it means to orgasm, i.e., it has a certain externality to it: something leaves your body - there is actual 'proof'. (as opposed to the 'mystery' of women's internal orgasm, something happening inside, not to be seen, only to be known indirectly). Besides, I think the highly visual charater of sexual material people are confronted with make people more prone to seek the same visual stimulans in their own bedrooms.
Which is not to say that squirting is never enjoyable, or necessarily a reaction to phallocentric notions of sexuality - far from it. I am trying to elaborate on the obsession with squirting - not on squirting itself...
"Of course, there are plenty of ways to see when a woman orgasms during sex, but not all of them are as 'visible' as when a man comes"
And iirc a lot of them can be faked, for that matter...
While there is no disputing misogynist reasons for wanting women to squirt, or for seeking that as a sexual goal, I think we also have to realize just how far we've come with this.
Squirting has, like most aspects of female sexuality, been put through the cultural and historical wringer - from being seen as sacred and positive to not being believed or accepted at all. The latter has been the prevalent attitude of modern Western sexual theory and what not, because super penis-centric dude scientists refused to believe that women were capable of something men were capable of, especially since biologically, the mechanics of female ejaculation are very similar to prostate stimulation in men. No scientist worth his salt was going to admit that men and women's reproductive organs really are that similar, and they also didn't exactly have any interest in exploring female sexual function or pleasure other than to pathologize or medicalize it.
The result of all this is that scores of worried and ashamed women underwent unnecessary and sometimes dangerous bladder control surgeries and treatments because they were convinced they were peeing during sex, and ignorant and misogynist doctors and mainstream society upheld this belief. Even today, despite all evidence to the contrary, there are scientists, gynecologists, and sexologists who don't believe female ejaculation actually exists and that we're really peeing. Still.
So while I see the male "obsession" with squirting as being potentially problematic, I do enjoy the idea that something that's inherently tied to female pleasure is being celebrated, encouraged, and discussed, especially because men and society in general have historically not had good things to say about our vaginas and the stuff that comes out of them.
I'm not a fan of mainstream pornography because, well, it's usually too rape-y for me to enjoy, but I tend to actually like squirt porn because the focus really is on female pleasure and the men and women in it just love the fuck out of being doused in girlcome. When was the last time you saw anything so vagina-affirming and focused on female pleasure? (It can, however, have a bit of a freak-show vibe, but it's still Masterpiece Theatre compared to most porn)
Again, I don't want to dismiss the obvious problems with male "obsession" with female ejaculation - anytime men get involved in women's sexuality it usually means bad shit's about to go down - and I certainly don't want to pull the "but look how much worse it USED to be!" card that's so frequently used against feminists. I think we can and should strive for nothing but complete liberation and equality and not just be thankful for crumbs we're thrown (especially if those crumbs are inherently misogynist). I guess I'm just trying to expose a silver lining in this from a female sexuality lens - if squirting is being discussed in the mainstream media as something POSITIVE, that is a welcome and necessary change. We just have to be careful that the fascination with it doesn't end up harming women, which it, unfortunately, probably ultimately will (in the form of exploitation and sexual goals and standards that women will feel pressure to live up to).
I guess I don't really have an answer. How do we celebrate female sexuality without men coming in and exploiting the fuck out of it? I only wish I knew.
P.S. I'm a sex columnist and I've written two articles on female ejaculation, the first outlining its "history" and acceptance (or lack thereof):
http://empowerment4women.com/culture/sexuality/fetch_the_towels%3a_the_art_of_female_ejaculation/
http://empowerment4women.com/culture/sexuality/fun_with_anatomy/
I don't think that you can say that there's a squirting obsession from listening to a radio show. First of all, a radio show has an incredible sample bias. Only the men who 1) listen to the show 2) had their phones on them at the time and 3) were interested enough in squirting to call would have gotten through on the other line.
Also, there are non-misogynist reasons to want to make a woman ejaculate. Some men might like the taste, or the experience of being ejaculated into. Some women like when their boyfriends/husbands/fuck buddies ejaculate into them. I don't see why it's so far of a stretch to imagine that a man might enjoy the same experience.
Maybe some of these are the same men who secretly fantasize about being 'pegged' by their girlfriend, but would never suggest to another 'macho' guy that they like being on the receiving end - so they fall back on some good old machismo "yeah man I made her squirt it was awesome I'm so virile". Immature, yes. But is the hatred of women always the reason to explain every male sexual behavior?
Not trying to mind-read or anything, but in my sexual experiences I've come across a few guys like that, who like it when a woman is inside them, who like to feel intimate and vulnerable, to take turns being on top. I don't think it's fair to say that an interest in female ejaculation is misogynist in all cases.
I wish I could squirt.
I think it's a combination of the two.
Guys probably think that a girl squirting means she's having a really intense orgasm. Which is probably true in a lot of people. I've never squirted, and I don't have any friends who squirt often, but when the have squirted on a rare occasion, they say it's amazing. So I can see how guys can assume that it's amazing for every woman, and it's definitely important to spread the word that it means different things for different women.
Given the above, I think it's an ego booster to believe that you've just given a woman the most amazing orgasm of her life, so yeah. I think it's the idea that they're giving a woman something amazing, and they like getting the pat on the back, and bragging rights about how awesome in bed they are.
But don't we want men to give women amazing orgasisms? Isn't it a good thing that men want to give this? It seems like something we've been advocating for a long time - to care about female pleasure and not just men's.
As for the bragging - good for them! That's a good thing to brag about. I feel proud too when I get my spouse really good. I think that's a good thing.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with men wanting to give women really intense orgasms and being proud of it afterwards, but as stated above, squirting doesn't always=really amazing orgasm. A lot of men assume it does. It'd probably be good to educate people that squirting does not necessarily mean you just blew her mind. So that they can stop pouting when they don't make a girl squirt.
Education is a great idea. I was aware of the phenomenon, but hadn't studied it specifically, other than in passing.
I can see how the idea would get started that squirting is a sign of a more intense orgasm: a) it doesn't happen all the time, or to all women; b) it apparently is a result of a particular style of stimulation; c) the male experience orgasm, where increased intensity can be associated with more ejaculate; and d) some women say it is more intense (while the voices saying otherwise are comparatively rarer).
It is interesting to hear that for some women it is just one more response, not necessarily better or worse, and not necessarily something to be gone after. That of course can only be answered by each woman, after some hopefully pleasurable investigation. (Which is basically what the one book I've read that mentioned it said.)
I agree with you, Honeybee! Even if these men are wrong about the squirting-mind-blowing-orgasm correlation, it's really encouraging to see that they want to know more about women's bodies and their sexual pleasure.
I think the sign of a society with an increasingly healthier view of women's sexuality is one that collectively wants to increase women's sexual pleasure. The other extreme is wanting to eliminate female sexual pleasure completely, as in societies that practice FGM.
You have to admit, aside from all the blatant sexual objectification of women in the media, the breaking of women's sexuality taboos is definitely putting us on the right track to equality.
I am very conflicted about all of this. I think it's great that we are opening up discussions of sexuality and sexual practices that were once taboo, but I also agree with everyone that's saying that many men view female ejaculation solely as something to be high-fived about, and that the woman doesn't really matter (ala dude that makes 6 different "chicks" squirt in a row). as a guy, it's really difficult for me to make sense of this and to try to avoid fetishizing in place of legit dialogue about my female partners' sexual pleasure.
so, yeah. i guess that offers no conclusion at all.
also, this is a very coincidentally-timed post, since i went to see yes means yes at a bookstore last night and my girlfriend bought a book on female ejaculation. SMALL WORLD
I discovered that I can squirt when I started using vibrators a few years ago. I was really upset at first because I squirt quite a bit, and I thought I was peeing in my bed. While other people I discussed it with suggested female ejaculation, the nurse at the university clinic thought I just urinated when sexually aroused. A bit of research online proved that it actually WAS female ejaculation. It bothers me that nurses at women's clinics may not know about this.
I'm thankful I figured this out through masturbating rather than having a potentially embarrassing sexual encounter with a partner.
I have been arguing with friends male and female who solely believe that female ejaculation is peeing. i have made my ex-girlfriend squirt on several occasions and it clearly does not come from the urethra. and like the writer of the topic says some squirting orgasms were pleasurable for my girlfriend and some were not. but i just get angry when people say that girls who squirt are just peeing, maybe in the porn industry this is true but from my experiences it wasn’t pee. And the girls I have argued with say things like “well my friend is a total slut and has fucked lots of guys and she hasn’t ever squirted” just stupid shit like that where because they haven’t and none of their friends have that it doesn’t exist. Does anyone here have REAL legit evidence articles by professionals or anything like that to back up that it isn’t fake? Or do people just not care enough to even do real research on it?
hi all, im a man and i read many method how to make an woman squirt
i gonna talk to my lover if she wanna try it before done it.. but before try it i want to know... is the 'skaking body ' at the end is painfull or something... or it very good feeling..
i just wan to know cause i dont wanna do something painful...
please send me answer to
DPJ_boy2004@hotmail.com
cause i will prob forgot the site...
thank, dave