Let me start off me saying that I'm not talking about abstinence education or forcing it on people who want to have sex!
Lately I have been having sex for all the wrong reasons. I went to my friends and was talking about it with them and I told them that I was considering abstinence for a while in order to get myself back on track and feel like I am the one who controls my body again. Their response was that I should either continue to have sex with the boyfriend or dump the boyfriend and sleep around. It seemed that to willingly stop having sex was somehow anti-feminist and anti-sex.
What I really hoped to achieve by posting here was to maybe create some discussion about whether or not becoming abstinent can be a feminist choice. I don't really want to be giving my body to anyone anymore but the argument seems to be that as a feminist I should not be giving my body during sex but simply using it for pleasure but I am a romantic at heart and don't think I really want to give that up in order to be 'truly' feminist. Is it possible for abstinence to be a feminist act? Or is abstinence (either chastity or stopping once you started having sex) only capable of being an anti-sex act?
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Why does it matter if abstinence is a feminist act or not? You can't go wrong with abstinence. You have a 100% chance of not getting pregnant, Stds and honestly be living a less complicated life. Sex can be stressful because it can give you a false sense of connection with a person, and it makes a relationship much more serious..you have way more to lose once you begin having sex.
If you feel like you need to back away from the situation with your boyfriend to reevaluate your feelings, I think its a great a idea. Like I said sex can misconstrue how youre feeling about that person and make things very confusing.
And if you want to connect it with feminism, you could say that Abstinence is a healthy choice for females (and males) and therefore can have a positive outcome on your life.
Control over one's own body is fundamental to feminism. If sex becomes something you "must" engage in, in order to be a "real" feminist, then you (all of us) have traded one oppressive ideology for another. I think being abstinent can absolutely be a feminist act.
I would love to have an active dialog about abstinence and feminism; not just in this post, but in wider feminist dialogs. And, like the poster above, I'm not talking about "abstinence only" or "not until I'm married" abstinence.
Bravo for bringing this up becstar.
Excellently put, Jrant.
Thankyou :) I was actually kind of nervous to post it because abstinence is pretty much always seen to be anti-sex which is not what I'm trying to get at at all. I really like the thought that shunning abstinence completely is another oppressive ideology because feeling pressured to have sex absolutely feels oppressive, I just feel like I can't mention it to my feminist friends!
Is it possible for abstinence until marriage to be a feminist choice too?
What if a person chooses to restrict sexual intimacy to one person after marriage because that is just how that particular individual desires to experience sex? If that is the best choice for one particular person, understanding that there is no life requirement to get married and no room to impose such intimate decisions on other people, then is that not also a feminist choice?
You say you don't want to "give" your body, or "use it" for pleasure. Maybe you do need to just take a break, take inventory of who you are and what you need/want, and then when you're ready you can *share* sex with someone you care about and both enjoy it?
Standing up for yourself and what's best for you (even if your boyfriend or friends may not like it) is exactly what feminism is about. Don't feel like you have to subscribe to some sort of extreme, like "abstinence only!" or "shagging all the time!" Just focus on what you need. Remember: you never have to have sex if you don't want to.
Wow, I hadn't even realised that. I guess it's a good signifier that me and sex aren't exactly on good terms at the moment.
I should also mention that my boyfriend is actually absolutely fine with the idea because he wants me to be enjoying myself too.
I became a feminist because it's all about doing what you want, and all about not doing, or not being forced to do, what you don't want. In other words, it's about freedom. The day feminism comes up with an official standard for whatever the heck I want to do with my body, I'm leaving the movement. And that's not about to happen. You want to abstain: you do that! Don't want to? Then don't.
I don't quite get how your friends think it's anti-feminist to stop having sex. I just don't get how that logic works...at all...
About two years ago my boyfriend that I had been dating off and on for about 5 years broke up with me. I was in a bad place and I felt that emotionally and physically I was not ready to have sex with anyone else. So I didn't. It was the longest period of time in my life I had gone without sex (since I lost my virginity I mean). It was good for me. I was able to fully process the break up and figure out what I really wanted. I'm not saying it's what everyone should do but it's what was right for me at the time.
And you know what, throughout that whole time I was still able to remain a feminist! No one took away my special feminist badge or anything. In fact, that's probably when I started focussing even more on certain feminist issues because I wasn't worrying so much about other things going on in my personal life.
And as far as this "giving" one's body or "using" someone else's for your pleasure thing, the thing I wasn't ready to do when I took a break from sex had nothing to do with "giving" someone my body or "taking" from someone else for my own sexual pleasure. That's not what I do during sex nor what I want. What I want is to "share" with someone. That, to me, is what made sex really worth it. And now that I've sorted myself out I can finally do that again.
I know that we've been on opposite sides of this whole BDSM thing and I'm not trying to push my views on you or anything but I think that the two topics are related. My answer to your questions in this post is the same as my view on submission.
Making a decision that affirms your individual sexual autonomy is NOT "anti-feminist." Informed well-considered sexual decisions that are positive for your life (and don't cause others harm - hurting people's feelings because you won't sleep with them does not count) are, in my opinion anyway, feminist. Women get so many messages about how we should behave sexually, I think that taking the time to decide what's best for you without all the outside influences is the best (and "most feminist") thing you can do.
For the record, my views on BDSM have been around a lot longer than the not wanting sex for a while thoughts have.
I agree with what you say about outside influences but I guess I believe that BDSM (specifically submission in females) in caused by outside influences but *shrug* I know when I went through my very unhealthy (for me) submission phase about a year ago it was definitely shaped by what I thought I should be doing. The same reason I continued having sex despite the fact I didn't want to I guess.
I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences. It sounds like taking some time off from sex and figuring out what you really want to do (rather than what you think you should do) might be a good thing for you. I firmly believe that no one should do anything sexually just because the feel like they SHOULD be doing it.
I'm also glad that you aren't being submissive anymore if it didn't feel right to you. I don't agree that BDSM is necessarily caused by outside influences for those of us who really want it (as opposed to your experience of thinking that you should), and for me not doing it would be giving in to external influence. If you want to talk more about that topic (or this one), come check out my blog: hopefuldescent.blogspot.com I'm getting sick of sorting through comments on the Professor Foxy thread.
This might sound a little strange coming from someone who happily identifies as sexually submissive, but it sounds to me like you need to stand up for yourself. Don't settle for something that isn't what you really want and don't let others (people or ideas) pressure you into something that doesn't feel right.
I agree completely with Hope. Sexuality is individual and personal, or at least, ideally it should be. Whatever really feels wrong to you, you shouldn't do, regardless of whether others like it, exhort you to do it, recommend it, etc. Your sexuality is YOURS, and no one but you should decide what to do or not do with it. :)
If someone is in a position that they feel they need to regain a sense of self and identity, by all means abstaining from sex is appropriate. Abstaining from sex with partners also gives one a chance, espically if they are young, to more fully explore thier own sexuality through fantasy. My favorite partners always were in very good touch with thier own bodies and minds, and abstaining from sex with others can be a way to get in touch with oneself.
As important is this idea of giving ones body to anyone. This is alien to me. Anytime I related with a woman sexually, from a ten year marriage to a one night stand, I felt that I was enjoying a mutual experience with an autonomous agent.
If ones self identity is that of a person who wants to find "the one," by all means, go for it. Don't spend time with men who don't fit the bill. But when once "the one" is found, remember to maintain autonomy. Both men and women will flee from a relationship where our partner has given too much of themselves up.
Although I enjoy reading and occasionally commenting on this blog, certain things I can't comment on, such as whether or not something is appropriately feminist. I can say that as a liberal, I believe strongly in individual choice and autonomy, and if one feels they have to abstain from sex, labels shouldn't stand in the way!
A lot of people hae mentioned the "giving" aspect of my post so I'll comment on it: I used to think it was a shared experince, absolutely. But thanks to bad partners who never gave anything back either physically or emotionally (I definitely do connect sex and love) it lead to me feeling that I was the one doing all the giving. The men I have been with don't seem to connect love and sex at all (despite claims otherwise) so its begun to felt like more of a sacrifice.
becstar, not all men feel this way. I'm not saying this as a kind of "don't be meen to t3h menz" thing or anything. I just mean that there are men out there who do enjoy their partners' pleasure.
(This is actually, not to reignite that BDSM argument here but just to note a personal thing, one thing I like about submissive men. While some of them just want their own fantasies fulfilled, I've also met a LOT of men for whom admitting to their submissive side means admitting that they really like making their partners feel good. Which leads to less of that "Sex is all about men's pleasure" thing that makes men ignore women's feelings.)
Heh, where are these mysterious men and where do I get one?
I've only ever encountered one man who actually admitted to his submissive fantasies and that was after a year of dating and we broke up soon after (unrelated to the revelation). And I thought submission was supposed to be good because the submissive one gets most of the pleasure?
And in all honesty, I don't want a man who is really submissive because I don't want that kind of sex at all. I want someone who wants to treat me nicely for a change, but unfortunately ridiculously rough sex seems to be the only way for most people.
Oh, I wasn't saying you *should* want such a person. Just noting something. :) Mostly I was thinking of how much my current partner really enjoys doing things I like that don't directly stimulate him, and how I think that's neat.
Sorry if I sounded like I was saying "You should do this" or any such.
That is indeed neat but still not my thing (possibly unfortunately?).
Don't worry becstar, men don't have to be submissive to care about whether you are enjoying yourself.
I think that, particularly with younger men, there are a lot of men who want to please their partners but don't really know how. Have you talked to your partners about what you want? It's just that from my (admittedly limited) experience with young hetero vanilla men they don't necessarily understand the mechanics of what women might like unless you tell them pretty explicitly. If you have and nothing changed that sucks and you should probably find someone better.
As far as "submission being good because the submissive one gets most of the pleasure" goes, a lot of submissives really enjoy giving their partners pleasure, so it can be pleasurable for everyone involved.
Yeah, I'm not backwards in coming forwards about telling them what I like but it still seems to be used as a type of unfair exchange (you do that for me for 5 minutes and I have to return the favour for 30 type deal). Plus I find the "younger" ones (still older than me) have preconceived notions of what women like anyway and will ignore what I say I like because they think they know better. In an extreme case my verbal lack of consent (I actually said "do not do *activity* before beginning) regarding a sexual activity (not intercourse) was ignored because apparently my behaviour was what gave consent!
The more I write about it the more I am not surprised my sexuality is fucked up!
That's not BDSM and it's not okay.
I really would like to talk to you privately. I'm not going to try to talk you into being kinky or anything, I just have some stuff I'd rather not say here. Please get in touch, I posted my email on the other thread.
Do what you want, and be as informed and safe about it as you can. That's what feminism does for us. I've taken some self-imposed "breaks" from sex, and I think I learned from them. They were never super long-term, but they have been helpful, and sort of relaxing. Good luck with whatever you do.
There's nothing wrong with abstinence and choosing to abstain from sex on whatever time scale can be a feminist choice. Being a feminist is about making YOUR own decisions about what's best for YOU and YOUR own body. While other people who know you well and care about you may offer advice in what they think is your best interest, they can't ultimately know what's actually "best" for you.
Of COURSE you can be an abstinent feminist! What is important is that you are choosing to have sex or not to have sex because of what YOU want. Being coerced by anyone into doing or not doing something is unfeminist, making your own decision is not.
Your body, your choice. Bodily autonomy and associated control over which parts of your body get used or not used is inherent to feminism.
Feminism is about choices. Choosing to be abstinent is wonderful! Being abstinent because you aren't taught anything else, because you feel forced to, or because you believe you shouldn't have a say in when you get to have sex-- that's what feminists dislike.
A lot of feminists in the 60s and 70s willingly gave up all sex as a feminist stance. Obviously, modern feminism rejected that idea because it's just as controlling as doing it for religion. But that doesn't mean you have to have sex! Just that you can, when you want.
I myself never have sex outside of long-term committed relationships. I find it's safer and I prefer it. Pressure to have sex is NEVER a good thing, and you should remind your friends as much.
If you're not having sex, tell your boyfriend and be understanding if he wants to break up. It's obvious that you don't want to have sex right now, so you shouldn't.
If you want to explore this issue, then think about why you don't want to have sex, and your idea of "giving [your] body." I'm no expert, but that seems like an unhealthy perspective of of sex.
This is personal, but, do you masturbate? If you enjoy masturbation, then consider masturbating with your partner there. If you don't masturbate, then start. Don't think about giving your body or about your partner's pleasure, but about your own satisfaction.
The boyfriend already knows that I have been thinking about it and has respected my decision given that it's not forever. He's said that he'd rather I take a break and eventually enjoy it than continue and hate it :)
I completely missed the end of your post. I do ad I do enjoy it. I guess that's a sign that it's just the partnered aspect that it bugging me. Also, when I say abstinent I tend to mean penis-in-vagina and oral. I have no idea where I stand about handy work at the moment.
The situation you describe is an excellent one in which to look for coercion, which feminism fights against.
Abstinence in itself is not coercive. It is coercive when it is presented as the only valid choice, such as in abstinence-only education.
Abstinence may in fact be a valuable tool in allowing you to see how others are acting in a coercive way.
After becoming sexually active, I took a year to be abstinent because I realized that I was unable to recognize coercion except in extreme forms and that I had a pattern of attaching to coercive men. It was necessary for me to step out, reflect, mature, and discover what I was really looking for. I recognized that I wasn't ready for the sexual entanglements, and that I needed to recover from traumatic pairings.
Feminism does not in any way require having sex. Feminism is about having agency in sex--keeping your ability to make informed decisions throughout your encounters; only having sex when everyone involved consents.
Own your decision, it's yours.
It's your body. You should do what you like with it.
If abstinence is anti-feminist, there are a whole lot of people making anti-feminist statements against their will.
There is no such thing as the One True Feminist Way to Fuck (or Not Fuck, as the case may be) and anyone who tells you different doesn't know what they're talking about. I hate it when women (or men) get judged for their sex lives, whether that sex life involves promiscuity, BDSM, or abstinence.
I've been thinking about the same thing. The only difference is that I've never had sex. I suspect anxiety and depression may be at the root of the problem, but I have trouble forming emotionally and physically (especially the latter) intimate relationships. The problem is that I want to have sex, but I'm scared/not ready to.
As someone who also battles depression, anxiety and insecurity, I recommend therapy. Insecurity in particular can trigger relationship problems, but depression isn't attractive either.
Good luck.
You should absolutely be able to be abstinent if it's your choice. Your body is your own, and while you may be sexual for your own pleasure, you are still allowing another person access to it. If you want to stop for a while, that's fine. I don't think anyone should be judged for their sexual choices; if we all had healthier views about sexuality, then we could choose to have sex or not have sex for reasons appropriate to us, and we could stop feeling badly about both of those decisions. It's such a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation, which is frustrating! No matter what you choose, no one should look down on you for it.
I've gotten the same arguments, but for a slightly different reason - I'm a virgin. That I don't want to have sex yet must mean I'm a prude or that I hate sex (or "worse" - religious!). I am none of these things (well, maybe I am a prude, but I don't care). Abstinence doesn't have to mean that. It can mean that you aren't in the mood, haven't found the right partner, aren't ready (even if you've already started having sex, you can be not ready again) or whatever.
I don't think that it's an anti-feminist or anti-sex choice. I think that making a decision that you feel benefits you is the best thing you can do right now. If you want to take a break, it's probably best to do so. :)
This really resonates with me because I gave up my virginity for pretty much nothing because virginity was seen as "bad" and then regretted it. I ended up enjoying myself eventually but now I'm back where I started!
I know that everyone else has stated this, but I'm with you on abstaining. There's nothing wrong with it if you do it for yourself and not because anyone else has told you to.
I'm a celibate, and it is great not to be under pressure to please someone else. Though I'm not against those who do love sex. Not by a long shot. Sex is great, too, but so is non-forced, self-decided abstinence! You go, girl! That's what it means to be a feminist!
wow. I think some of the loudest statements feminists make today are:
"No means no, and yes means yes"
and
"My body: My choice!"
Which of those tell your friend
"Not haveing sex is anti-feminist" ?
The CHOICE to have sex with someone is extreamly feminist. the CHOICE to not have sex with someone is also that.
Not haveing sex is -your- choice. Hell, we've been working on this one for years! The eintire point of the abortion/pro-choice movement is giveng women a choice as to what happens to their bodies. We don't want to/can't afford the raise a child? Well then hell I can have an abortion.
Choice my friend it's all about choice. Stand by yours.
I took a celebacy run for about 2 years simply because I felt I needed to commune with my body, and my spirit without the framework of being someone's S/O. I learned a great many wonderful things about my body and myself. I highly recommend it. Sometimes, you jsut need to remind yourself you are not a commodity, you are a person, who happens to like sex.
Good luck and really take the time to reflect on it ok?
Thx! Waiting for next post!
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