Diatribe
This list is at its core a diatribe. We are frustrated with some of the unsafe environments being created around us and would like to name in an open way the ways that we have felt uncomfortable and marginalized in an effort to allow us to bring our whole selves to all situations. By writing this we are putting ourselves out there, so be considerate and respectful.
1. Don't make me sit in the middle seat of the back of a car
2. Don't make me sit on the ground ever
3. Chairs in Sci. Center 183 NOT FUN, Chairs in Kohlberg--I have bruises
4. Flying on airplanes makes me want to die because the seats are so small
5. Never take a picture from below
6. Be aware if I'm running, out of breath, generally unable to keep up
7. No, walking long distances isn't going to work if we are running, or walking
8. Don't call yourself fat, I'm uninterested in hearing that
9. Don't comment on how much I'm eating, ever
10. Don't ask me what medicine I'm taking
11. Don't ask me why I have so many doctors appointments.
12. Don't give me two potatoes at Sharples. I want a multiple of two. It is not your responsibility to be my Jenny Craig
13. Don't talk about the Freshmen 15
14. Don't assume I'm not sexual
15. Don't assume that I'm your chair
16. Don't tell me I'm comfy. I'm not your lazy-boy. Comfy is code for fat.
17. Ice breakers like the human knot and others that make me acutely aware of my size are not OK. Trust fall is never OK. NEVER!
18. Just because I'm fat does not mean I'm sassy--I'm not Mo'Nique, I'm not Queen Latifah, I'm not your comedy show
19. Don't ask me to carry 15 things and balance one on my head, it's not easy to balance myself
20. Moving to the center of an aisle, cafeteria, shouldn't be more important than my discomfort with hitting everyone on the way there with my boobs/stomach/self
21. My boobs are proportional to the rest of me, there is no need to note their size
22. Pools and beaches are not safe spaces for me, bathing suits are my worst nightmare.
23. My weight does affect my temperature, sometimes I sweat.
24. Amusement parks and roller-coasters are not safe spaces for me, anything really with a size limit
25. No, I don't want to try that on in a size 1/2 of what my actual size is.
26. Ice is my worst fear, falling could break a bone. Gravity is my other worst enemy.
27. Don't confuse health with wellness, they are different.
28. Don't comment on how much my jeans cost, it's more fabric, it makes sense that it costs more.
29. Don't tell me that "you shouldn't be eating this," no you shouldn't, you should give it to me. Fishing for compliments isn't going to work here.
30. We can't share fitting rooms, it's not a party.
31. Don't take me into Abercrombie and Fitch. Don't take me into Rainbow. It's just insulting.
32. Cheap stuff looks good on you, a piece of tissue paper is not flattering on my body.
33. Victoria is the beign of my existence, anything above a B-cup is a piece of shit.
34. If it doesn't look good on me, be honest, but it's kind of your fault were in this situation in the first place.
35. I don't care about the environment, I need to take the elevator.
We know these are funny but they are all, also dead serious. We can each point to moments just like these that made us feel marginalized, excluded, self-conscious, and generally unsafe. So think twice before you act, recognize your privilege and own it.
In Solidarity,
Sylvia and Cecilia
0 TrackBacks
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Fatphobia.
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.feministing.com/cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-tb.fcgi/12350
It's a little silly for you to complain about everything being too small for you, don't you think? It's one thing to dislike being treated poorly, but it's another to expect everything to be made you. That being in A&F is insulting to you means that you aren't comfortable with your body. That's your problem, not your friend's. You have two choices, change your body, or like how it looks now.
#35 in particular hit me the wrong way. If you need to use the elevator, because you cannot use the stairs, then you may have a problem bigger than your body image. It's one thing to be overweight, but if you're so large you can't walk up stairs, that's something you should try to change.
If she were in a wheelchair and a lecture hall didn't have somewhere for her to sit, she could sue. Seating should be designed to be universal. Most lecture halls aren't. I'm on the small side of the fat spectrum and a lot of those seats with the attached desks are uncomfortable. I carry my weight in my stomach, so it causes a problem no matter what.
Sometimes I need to use the elevator. Though really, it doesn't matter if I need to or want to. It's my choice and my business, not yours or anyone else's.
The clothing industry in general needs to wake up. Just because the size I wear has two digits doesn't mean I want to wear a tent. Abercrombie is an easy target, but it's far from the only one. It's not about body image, it's about exclusion.
I'm curious, what do you think of plus size only stores? Should every store carry every size, or is it ok to specialize?
Plus size stores are a reaction to exclusion, not an example of it.
Not to mention they're a different animal entirely. They openly serve a niche market. Normal stores also serve a niche--smaller women--but they are still accepted as representative of the norm. It's not necessarily that it's bad that they do that, but from a social standpoint, there's something incredibly wrong with most clothing stores only stocking clothes that won't fit most women. (Men's stores are a different matter, sorry to say.)
Normal stores also serve a niche--smaller women--but they are still accepted as representative of the norm. It's not necessarily that it's bad that they do that, but from a social standpoint, there's something incredibly wrong with most clothing stores only stocking clothes that won't fit most women.
I disagree with this. Lots of stores stock a full range of sizes. I used to work at Old Navy and know for a fact they stock jeans and most other items of clothing from sizes 0 to 20! If most women don't fall within that range than I'm surely living in a cave. I've seen the same thing in other stores (JC Penney, Sears, Filene's, Macy's, etc).
That being said, I did happen to notice a trend at Old Navy. Clearance items were usually sizes 12 and up. So I'm not sure if this represents that most women shopping here are smaller than that or if Old Navy just sells clothes that don't look good on a plus size frame.
I often have trouble finding small sizes at Old Navy. Maybe they are stocking things evenly when they should be following more of a bell curve.
I agree! I can never find the larger sizes. It seems like they overstock sizes 8-14 and everything else is scarce.
It would be great if every store catered to every size and plus stores were rendered unnecessary. But in the current fashion climate plus-only stores are necessary so that those of us who wear a 14 or larger have somewhere to get clothes at all.
You could also argue that there are more women in that size range who are likely to be uncomfortable shopping around women who are shaped vastly differently than they are, but I think that if all sizes were available together (not in separate sections, sizes 2 and 26 of the same item should be on the same fucking rack) that problem would be close to eliminated as well.
And when I say "cater to all sizes" I mean actually cut each size based on its own appropriately-sized fit model, don't just use the same size-2 pattern (I think that's size what fit models usually are) and add generic inches without accounting for how bodies are built differently at different sizes.
Also, to second nightengale, there's nothing wrong with niche markets, it's a problem when niche stores that cater small (like Abercrombie, 5-7-9, Forever 21, American Eagle, etc) are accepted as the norm when their sizes - even if they carry up to a "14" - run tiny. I can wear a 14 in many brands, however AE, A&F and H&M 14s are not on that list because they run small.
But how do you measure or change something being accepted as the mainstream? I don't accept A&F as mainstream. I don't know anyone who shops there, since most of their clothing is badly made out of thin, see-through cotton, with rips in it. I think of it as the store that sorority girls shop at. Doesn't that make it a niche market? On the other hand, Lane Bryant and Torrid are in the same mall, and I do know people who shop there. Does that make them more or less of a niche market?
I think it would be nice if every store had clothing that fit everyone and every style, but it doesn't seem like a practical business model.
As it is, I can't shop in lots of stores either, for various reasons. Their clothes are too see-through, shirts are often too short for me to wear without baring my middrift because I'm tall, pants are cut oddly so that the legs are too big but I can't sit down without showing off several inches of my underwear, etc. I'd love to find a store that catered exactly to my size and style, but shopping is a lot of work for me, and probably for most people.
I guess what I'm saying is there are tons of things that suck about the fashion world, but that's free market for you. I don't really see what to do about it, except shop at the stores you like.
The problem is, there are certainly styles that look good on overweight people, and they don't always overlap with the styles that look good on women of other body types (not just thin, also long legged, big breasted, whatever. We complain that clothes are designed for thin women then reject the idea that thin women and heavy women should need different cuts of clothing. I wish there were more stores that catered in various styles to my size (long legs), so I could go in and know that I could find stuff that was designed with long legs in mind (and wasn't a miniskirt). I mean, it would suck if all an overweight person could find was low-rider jeans that cut in at the worst place. And if you've already got a completely different style, and it's only available in 20-28 because that's who it's designed for, why would you put it with the other, completely different cut clothing? I HATE how stores will mix "tall" jeans with "regular," who the hell wants to make their life more difficult trying to find the clothing that's cut for them?
When I go to Children's Hospital Boston I sometimes see overweight, usually older women taking the elevator up a flight to the exclusion of actual disabled people, like paraplegic children. That bugs me-- you may have limited mobility but you sure as hell don't trump a kid who can only move their eyes who's trying to go to dialysis. Other than that, I don't care-- I have bad knees and take the elevator myself sometimes.
I see your point about not expecting everything to be made expressly, but hey, I'm not overweight and A&F is insulting to ME, albeit for different reasons. Can we just all agree to have a hate-on for Aberzombie & Felch on general principle? }:)
I'm a little confused about the part about ice:
"26. Ice is my worst fear, falling could break a bone. Gravity is my other worst enemy."
Is this a weight specific thing? Aren't icy sidewalks and the possibilty of falling and breaking a bone applicable to anyone at any weight?
Yeah that really confused me as weight isn't indicative of bone strength...it's not winter where I live without a few good wipeouts.
Yeah, I was kind of confused by that one too. It seems to me that falling on ice might actually be more dangerous for thinner people, since their bones are a little closer to the surface. Or perhaps the issue is that there is more weight falling on the bone, which would make it more likely to break?
I highly doubt it...that would make minimal difference if any. It's more about bone strength and weight isn't correlated to that.
I think the problem is impact force, which of course equals mass times acceleration - more mass means a greater impact on the same bone, which can only handle up to a certain amount of force before it breaks.
I still think you would have to be incredibly obese for that to make a significant difference, to the point of disability.
Several years ago my then SO (BMI about 40) fell 19 in. off of a step stool, tearing her ACL. I (BMI 22) don't believe I would have been injured by the same fall. Still she was much fitter than the OPs, being able to climb stairs easily, etc.
I had a coworker (BMI est. 60) who decided it was time to lose weight after she developed a stress fracture in a knee. (No accident was mentioned as being the cause of the injury.)
Heavy people definitely have increased risk of injury due to force of gravity.
Hm, I had no idea. Ah well, I'm active and love to skate and I've never broken a bone so I'm not going to start being careful now :)
Oh, I agree that it doesn't qualify as a disability - just pointing out that obesity makes falls more dangerous and stress fractures more likely. But that's a risk inherent to the situation - ice is a fact of winter, and everyone's at equal risk for a fall and a resulting injury.
But there would also be more fat to cushion the bones. I'm not sure which one would be more important-- anyone got a study?
Anyway I think its probably too variable to be connected just to fat-- its going to also be affected by a lot of other factors, like calcium levels.
It's my understanding that fat is not an effective cushion for the bones in/connected to joints, which tend to be the worst affected by falls - muscle, if I'm remembering old physiology correctly, can be, but fat is just extra weight. Obesity is also linked to bone density loss - a quick search pulled up here and here. That said, I completely agree with you all over this thread - obesity, with a handful of exceptions, is a preventable/treatable condition rather than a disability, and is best considered accordingly.
As someone who is the opposite of fat, I have requests I would like to make to fat people who feel that the skinny privileged people don't catch any crap for their weight.
1.) If I complain about being too skinny, don't assume you have it worse then me and list off 500 reasons why you do have it worse than me.
2.) Don't tell me how 'lucky' I am to be skinny.
3.) I don't want to hear you joke about how you hate me because I'm skinny. Yes, I know, it's hilarious to pick on skinny people because of their weight and awful to pick on fat people, but I'm just a tad sensitive.
4.) Don't tell me to eat more. I'm not going to blow away in the wind. I eat fine, it is not my lack of eating that causes me to be skinny.
5.) Don't tell me you are afraid to hug me because you might snap me in two. I'm not that fragile. You could no more snap me in two than I could jump off the fat on your body like a trampoline.
6.) I have fat. Really, I do. I promise. So stop, you know, telling me that I don't have any. I have an ass. I have a belly. I have breasts. I have thigh fat. It's just not much. And there is nothing wrong with that.
7.) You do not need curves to be a real woman.
8.)I weigh more than 90 lbs., quite a bit more, and it's none of your business what I weigh in the first place.
9.) Clothes may come in my size, but that does not mean they always fit properly. I am tall, so the clothes that fit my weight do not fit my height.
10.) I don't think you're jealous of me until you tell me you're not and I shouldn't think you are.
11.) I have contemplated suicide over how skinny I am.
12.) It's usually right after the time that I've come to love my body, no matter how skinny, that someone mentions how I need to gain some weight. Then I go right back to wishing I could have a fuller body.
13.) Don't assume just because I am skinny, I think I'm better than you and have zero understanding of what it must be like to be larger than we in America are acceptable to be. I may not have to deal with everything you do, but as a woman with a weight in America, I have been given my fair share of nastiness. I'm not concerned with who had it worse, though I'm sure you do, but that does not mean the things I deal with are nothing and trite and to be ignored. I understand that as a fat person, you have different needs. I just want fat people to realize that skinny people should be able to expect the same well-treatment. In other words, I don't talk about your weight and think about how you take up more space, and you don't talk about my weight and don't act like you'll break me if you hug me too hard.
And yes, these are all things I've experienced multiple times. If I sound mad at the original posters, I don't intend to be. I'm basically mad at everyone of every weight who has said or assumed anything about my weight. So if that's not you, which I'm sure it's not, I'm sorry for sounding so hostile.
To make this not about me, I agree with most. People do need to realize their privilege.
When I was in high school, I was really skinny, and I got a lot of jokes about anorexia and skeletons and stuff (even though my friends saw me eating quite a big greasy lunch every day at school).
They especially liked to joke about how I was so skinny that I would one day die in childbirth. No kidding.
They especially liked to joke about how I was so skinny that I would one day die in childbirth. No kidding.
That is terrible! Who could think that is funny? Jeez.
I've heard other girls who were skinny in high school mention it too. Its a way of saying they're jealous. I think they thought it was a compliment.
They also used to joke about how I'd blow away and die of malnutrition, even though I totally ate plenty of meat and vegetables and everything.
I mean, I was fairly skinny, but I don't think it was anywhere near being unhealthy. Lots of high school girls are very very skinny when they've had a growth spurt, and most gain some weight as they grow into themselves.
Yeah. I'm a junior in college and still hear this stuff. My body won't keep any fat on it til I'm nearing 30. That's what happened to both my parents.
For me, I filled out partway through college, after I started taking birth control. Now I am still not fat, but not nearly as thin as I used to be. It took me awhile to get used to it, but now when I look at pictures from before that I think I look too skinny. So I can see where people were coming from, but its still strange how they all feel like its ok to say things like "you are so skinny that you might die" and then claim its a compliment.
Part of me still wishes I could be as effortlessly skinny as I was in high school. I almost never had an appetite for much food back then, and even when I did eat junk food I never gained weight. It was obviously too good to last. Anyway, I wouldn't want to stay quite THAT skinny, but it was really nice not to have to worry about it. Out of all the things I felt bad about in high school and all the things I hated about my body, I never thought I had too much of a tummy or anything like that, and now I do. On the other hand, now I"m ok with my breasts and my hair and my tendency to use big words that confuse people. On the whole, I'd rather be me now than me in high school.
Thank you! I especially love this, "8.)I weigh more than 90 lbs., quite a bit more, and it's none of your business what I weigh in the first place." I have been asked by many people how much I weigh. When I answer truthfully ("100-105 pounds. I don't weigh myself too often"), I'm told that I weigh less than that. Then why the hell did you ask??? And the bit about clothes fitting is another thing. No matter how much I tell people that it's hard for EVERY woman to find clothes that fit right off the rack, no matter what your size, some jerk has to tell me that it's still harder to be plus sized. It's not.
I completely agree. I've always been really skinny and it's always been a huge issue for me. I'd like to add that no, fat is not the ideal women's body--but neither is mine. I don't have curves. I don't look like J.Lo. That doesn't make me any less of a woman even if I'm portrayed as more of a boy.
I've had very open and honest conversations on this topic with some very skinny friends. They always seem to come to the same conclusion, which is that while being really skinny has a lot of drawbacks and annoyances, there's a general societal stigma about being fat that being skinny doesn't have.
We all get inappropriate comments about our bodies, but people who are too skinny frequently get them with some admiration (I've never had anyone ask me my 'secret' to being fat, lol) and it's more widely accepted that they can't help but be skinny.
People still don't get that fat people can't help but be fat - it's just as much in our DNA to be fat as it is yours to be skinny, but society at large is still stuck on the notion that somehow we've all brought being fat upon ourselves. If we'd just eat fewer burritoes and walk more we'd be thinner. People accept that you can be thin and be either healthy or unhealthy but not the same for fat - too many people automatically assume that fat = unhealthy and out of shape.
And as far as clothing goes - yes, it's true that not everything fits any single body type. But the difference is that you can abide by the "go up a size and tailor it down" rule if the store actually makes a size larger than the one you're trying on. When you're cramming into the largest size in most stores, your options are more limited even in the same store than if you're somewhere at the smaller end of the size range. You can probably say the same thing about wearing the smallest size someone offers, too, but then we get back to the tailoring down thing and we'll keep going in circles. :)
That's just based on conversations I've had with skinny friends, I know it's not universal.
I get what you're saying all around, except for the part about people realizing that you can't help but be skinny.
People always assume that the reason I'm skinny is I don't eat. After I explain to them I have a fast metabolism they usually understand, but it seems to be accepted by most people that I just don't eat. Everyone agrees if I ate more I'd be less skinny, but the thing is I eat more than my fair share of food when at home.. it's a different story here at school. I've been told more than once I won't gain weight if I don't eat more, and it's not even solicited, just people assuming I purposely don't eat to stay skinny and think I need to gain weight.
Here's to people leaving everybody, fat or skinny, alone about their weight.
I also agree that stores need to run bigger sizes everywhere.
In your reply to my post (first post on this topic), you claim that sometimes you do need to take the elevator. To me, that means that you are unhealthy. I have never needed to use the elevator, unless I was ill. Here, you say we shouldn't assume fat people are out of shape. Do you see the contradiction?
If you are in shape and you have two working legs, you can take the stairs. Period. I'm fat and I walked up the Eiffel tower.
Word.
Hmm, I am wondering about 6 and 7. Do you feel it's fatphobia to ask a fat person to walk a long distance or (35) take the stairs? I don't want to assume anything about a person's fitness because of their size. I'm below average size and people used to assume that therefore I could run fine when I actually got out of breath quite quickly. I realize some of these points could be more generalizable than others. Most do seem quite insulting to any fat person while for those three, I think people shouldn't assume anything about fitness and I'd hope people would look out for someone out of breath while running no matter what their size.
Yeah, I mean, I bet there are some overweight people who would be offended if you assumed they couldn't walk up a flight of stairs.
ha ha. I can relate to some of these more than others, but:
8. Don't call yourself fat, I'm uninterested in hearing that
Urgh! I hate this! Even if you are overweight yourself, you do not complain about your weight to somebody heavier than you are unless you are brain damaged. It is quite awkward to be on the receiving end of this behavior.
It's like, you just called yourself fat, which means you just called me fatter than fat. And yet, it is now time for me to comfort you and tell you that you're not fat. Well, fuck you. >:-( Especially when the person complaining really isn't overweight. I have one friend who does this all the time and I have no patience for it.
Perhaps she does not see me as fat. She may see me as some euphemism for busty and almost-fat, such as voluptuous or thick. It is still an act of stupid on her part.
I know its horrible to hear from someone thinner than you how "fat" they think they are. But 90% of women feel like they're 300 lbs, regardless of whether they are or not. Sure, there's a few girls who are just mean and want to make you feel bad, so stay away from them. :) But most genuinely do hate their bodies and might see themselves as your size or bigger...
If I feel I am unhealthy/sluggish because of my weight, why can't I complain, talk about my weight loss program, or answer honestly when a friend who is even heavier asks me why I won't eat that cupcake? Maybe you are the healthiest person in the world at 250 lbs but my body struggles at 200, and losing weight makes me healthier. I don't think I'd stay friends with someone who insisted I couldn't talk about my health, but it was okay if they did.
I don't think I'd stay friends with someone who was jealous of my self-control and tried to sabotage it.
4. "Flying on airplanes makes me want to die because the seats are so small"
I'm curious about this one. I understand why you don't like airplane seats, but I'm curious what exactly you want people to do about it, since most of your other comments are directed at people around you doing something or not doing something. Do you expect the person next to you to put the arm rest up and give up part of their seat?
I think that if someone is too large to fit into one airplane seat they should be given another one free of charge (as it can be considered a disability) but I don't think they should change the size of the seats in general because that would cause an unfair amount of revenue loss.
And how would providing free seats to each of the sizeable people who feel uncomfortable in the small seats NOT result in revenue loss? If you subscribe to the idea that the majority of the USA (at the very least) is overweight, that's a lot of people getting free seats next to them.
I disagree; a person would have to be minimum 300 pounds to truly not fit into one airplane seat (I am rather overweight and can still fit easily into one seat), and if you are that overweight it is a disability just like any other that needs to be accommodated. Besides, out of the number of Americans who are 300 lbs+, how many of them regularly travel by air? I don't think it's a big deal.
Obesity is (usually) a preventable condition. I've known chainsmokers who hate flying because they can't smoke -- it makes them completely miserable -- but I don't think they should be treated as if they have a disability. Unless the weight is actually the result of some kind of medical condition, fat people should pay for their own extra seats.
Having two seats would make an obese person as miserable as a smoker and also humiliated so it's not like they are getting loads of privilege out of it, it's just something that needs to be dealt with without adding insult to injury by making them pay for it. I simply feel that it is a violation of rights to make someone pay twice as much as someone else to travel by airplane because of their size.
I can see how it could be incredibly humiliating. On the flip side, unless the person is really enormous two seats will give them plenty of space -- more space than most people sitting in one seat, which doesn't seem quite fair.
Because obesity is preventable and curable, people who stay at that size make a choice. They choose to not lose weight. And while losing weight isn't easy, it's also not necessarily expensive or time-consuming, so more or less anyone who wants to slim down can do so regardless of their work schedule or income. In that respect, it's a lot like quitting cigarettes. If someone makes that choice, they should accept the consequences.
I don't really think that the comparison to smoking applies, because a smoker is physically able to go on an airplane without special accommodations unlike people who need two seats. You can say it's a choice or not but I still feel that at that point it should be treated as a disability.
All 35 of these, summarized:
1) Don't be horrifyingly insensitive.
2) Being fat is the same as being disabled.
3) All fat people are really, really insecure about it, to the point where they can't walk across crowded rooms.
Other than the first idea, I'm not sure if that's what you meant to say or if that's just how it came off. Honestly, I think a lot of people would take offense to being treated as if they have extremely fragile self-esteem and can't walk up stairs.
I sort of got that sense too. I'm not sure if that was how it meant but that's how a lot of it seems to read.
Fat acceptance is a long process and a transition. To me it sounds like they've narrowed down their own personal feelings and still need to learn about the experiences of others. To form a more comprehensive view of the fat experience.
And #1 isn't exactly a bad idea.
I think I made it fairly clear that the first one is a good idea. It's the other two that rub me the wrong way. I agree that it's probably because they haven't thought outside their own experiences.
There's a difference between expecting people to have a certain amount of sensitivity and expecting the world to be made to fit you. I don't think they understand that difference yet.
2) Being fat is the same as being disabled.
I think you have to be careful about this statement and be more specific about what you mean by disabled.
Certainly not everyone who looks "fat" according to society's standards needs a disability parking placard, for example. Many of these people may actually be more fit than your average couch potato. On the other hand, some people who look healthy (like me) may have an invisible disability (in my case, a chronic illness). Thin does not always equal healthy any more than fat always equals unhealthy.
I think a better statement is that one should try to avoid assumptions about physical abilities based on size or shape.
Oops, I read the list of three items and didn't carefully read the follow-up paragraph. I think that my comments then are more of a response to the original poster than to you. Sorry that I posted without reading the message more carefully.
I can relate to this article. It is so hard to lose weight, and so many people struggle with their weight problems all the time. It reminds me of my book that has recently been published. The main character of my book is overweight, and also has many issues and struggles with her weight. But in the end she overcomes them, and finally manages to lose the weight that she subconsciously put on to protect herself from being hurt by love, which I think, is something a lot of people out there tend to do without even realizing it. Being overweight is not just about the physical, it's also about what is going on with a person’s psychological issues. The main character also comes to realize the importance of healthy eating and fitness. I am a regular user of Facebook if anyone would like to talk to me about my book.
Carla Cunningham, Published Author of Alone in the Storm.
A hard copy of my book can be purchased from the following website:
http://www.eloquentbooks.com/AloneInTheStorm.html
I have a friend who 10 years ago broke his back and went through three years on not being allowed to lift anything over 5 pounds. As a result he is now over 300 pounds overweight and because of his weight and back problems has trouble keeping with any kind of exercise program because he keeps pulling Muscles etc.
One of the main reasons We are such good friends is we do not muffle our conversations with each other, very little if anything is off limits and that includes his weight. If I had to pretend that the 600 pound gorilla in the room was not there I would not have become such good friends with him.
I guess what I am saying is if you have a condition that handicaps you, asking everyone to walk on eggshells around you is off putting. If people are afraid anything they say to you will offend they will eventually just avoid you.
#6 and #7 - I take offense because I am a fat woman who is in great physical shape (yes, that IS possible). I can outrun a lot of people who are smaller than me. I think it's more fatphobic to assume I can't run than to assume I can. Or to give me a "wtf" look when I say that I do run.
A lot of these are just playing into fat stereotypes - sad, narrowminded stereotypes perpetuated by people who need to make us all the same size.
Many of us out there who are fat do NOT fit into those stereotypes. Outside of what I already mentioned, I, for one, love to go to the pool and beach. Water is amazing. You can stare at my thighs all you want, I'm still going to walk from the chair to the water without a sarong.
Airplanes are uncomfortable for everyone. I've been different degrees of fat, nothing ever makes them fun. Except sleeping pills.
I always made the smallest person sit in the middle.
Take a picture from whatever angle you want - I'm a secure person and I know what I look like. It's beautiful from anywhere.
My boobs are proportionally large. There's never a good reason to comment on the size of someone's chest.
Rainbow has plus sizes. Abercrombie is hideous no matter what size you are.
I take the stair when I want to. I take the elevator when I want to. Which one I choose is of no concern to anyone else.
Don't confuse health with weight - they are different.
Falling on ice isn't really fun for anyone.
Trust falls suck. Partly because I'm fat and partly because I don't trust anyone.
Sharing fitting rooms is icky no matter what size I am. I won't even let my mom sit on the bench if she promises to close her eyes.
If it doesn't look good on me, be honest, not because it's anyone's "fault" but because I don't want to go outside looking like a jackass. There are unflattering and flattering things in every size for every body.
If I'm going to suck in my stomach when I walk through an aisle, you better take off your goddamned backpack when you go through.
Lane Bryant jeans are $40-$50. Gap jeans are $50-$60. I don't get why anyone is commenting.
It has nothing to do with weight, it's never appropriate to ask what medications someone is taking (unless they bring it up).
If you don't think you should eat something, don't eat it. If you don't think I should eat something, STFU and mind your own business. What you eat is up to you and what I eat is up to me. Autonomy. See how that works?
Victoria's Secret bras are pieces of shit at any size. They fall apart fast and aren't cheap.
If you're going to sit on my because I am "comfy" you should know that gives me free reign to bitch at you for having ass bones that dig into my thighs. Fair's fair.
That's all I've got for you. :)
I like this post (except the aforementioned making people sit in the middle seat part-- I think I just don't like the idea of "making" anyone sit in the middle seat. People should generally be considerate enough to take turns or volunteer or draw straws or at least talk about it, not say "you have to sit there because you're thin/fat/have short legs, etc".)
It seems pretty empowering to me. I don't like the idea that I'm supposed to assume fat people can't walk up stairs or across a room. On the other hand, I'm pretty thin and I get out of breath taking the stairs sometimes. Thin doesn't mean being in good shape. I probably don't need to lose weight but I do want to get in better shape. That's most likely going to mean gaining weight, in the form of muscle. But if I tell people I'm out of shape they get all confused and tell me I'm thin.
Beautifully said! I completely agree.
I really like this post. :-) Good for you for somehow managing to love yourself in this crazy society. I really hope that someday I can be happy with me too. :D
Thank you for your candor, Liza. Your writing makes me smile :)
Yes! I couldn't put my finger on what I didn't like about this OP but you said it: stereotypes. Almost all of those points seemed like horrible fat stereotypes. It's fine if these are the OP's experience but she makes it seem like these are universal truths of all overweight people and it comes off as rather demeaning and insulting IMO. My dad is overweight and every Sunday morning he walks (and I mean power walks, not like a casual stroll) 10 miles with my mother. I'm thin and I don't freaking do that!
I'm not going to comment on the so-called plight of skinny people except to say that it's never ok to make derisive comments about someone's body; if someone is jealous then they should grow up and deal with it. Speaking as an overweight person, I have some problems with this list. A few of these things are true. I'm not a chair or a pillow, I'm not asexual, and you aren't fat so can it. However, I don't consider it the fault of society that furniture etc. is made to fit average-sized people. If someone were to insinuate that I couldn't walk up a flight of stairs or walk long distances, I would flip my shit and consider that person an ignorant tool. I'm fat and I hate that society hates that, but I'm also active and ambitious and perpetuating the false stereotype that fat people are lazy and demanding is the opposite of helpful.
The "so-called plight" of skinny people? Don't pretend that you think it's wrong to make derisive comments about people's appearance when you can't even acknowledge that people other than you can have a rough time of it.
Perhaps that was poorly worded, as I'm not trying to discount the difficulties others face when buying clothes. I do stand by the fact that it's harder for plus-sized women to find clothing that fits because the average model is size 2, and I said that because it annoys me when people complain how difficult it is to find clothing when 80% of stores cater to their size. The point I was trying to make is that it's not ok for people to make comments like "you should eat a sandwich" or "the wind's going to blow you away", just as it's not ok to say things about fat people. So I'm not "pretending" as you've snidely assumed, and if you read the rest of my comment you would see that.
Re: the size of average models. Maybe in high fashion, but at cheaper stores there can be a different issue. Back when I was a lot skinnier, I would go into stores where the mannequins looked roughly the same shape as me, only to find that the store actually had to safety pin up the backs of the mannequins shirts because they actually don't fit people that size, and there was nothing in the store that would fit me. They seem to feel a need to advertise with skinny mannequins even when they don't have clothes that fit them.
I'm not trying to say that it's totally easy for skinny people to find clothes; I have a friend who is size 00 and I get that it's hard. I still stand by my point though.
Well, either it's the "so-called" plight, or it's the actual plight. If thin people actually face real difficulties (which I assure you, many of us do), then to imply that those difficulties are less real or less important than the difficulties that larger people face is simply prejudiced.
For the record, I haven't owned a pair of jeans since I was 12, because they don't make them in my size. I make almost all of my own clothes or have store-bought clothes professionally tailored because it is so difficult to find anything that fits. I don't have a huge problem with that, because it's not like my particular body type is common (so there isn't much of a market for clothes that fit me), but my point is just that it's not "easy" for MOST people to find clothes in their size. It's not just a plus-size thing. Most women's clothing stores carry clothes that fit the supposedly "average" person - someone around 5'5" and a size 4. Not someone who's a size 0 or a size 24. Not someone who's 4'11" or 6'2".
As a thin person who gets carsick, I don't see why the skinniest person should be forced to sit in the middle seat. The middle seat is no fun for anyone, and people should take turns. If you honestly don't fit in the middle seat, odds are no one else fits in the middle seat next to you either. I'm not trying to be insulting with that, but I'm thinking of the sizes involved, and the middle seat is not really any smaller than the other seats, its just shaped less comfortably.
In the car I was in, it was smaller, so the logic was smallest seat goes to smallest ass. But it wasn't exactly a hard and fast rule. And carsickness sorta always wins. No one wants to get barfed on. :)
What I meant about the size of the seat was that in most cars, the back seat is essentially a long bench. Parts of it may be molded a little bit, but there aren't hard and fast designations between the seats (unless you have some strange car with arm rests in the back). So, really, the seat could be divided up various ways. You could have the largest person in the middle and the skinny people on the sides, and maybe the person in the middle would be taking up a little more than what is normally thought of as the middle seat, but since they aren't actually separate seats it doesn't seem like it makes a big difference.
Now, if you have a car that actually has separate back seats (possibly some minivans do, but in that case they're usually all pretty nice big seats, and there is no middle seat at all), then it might be different, but I can't think of a car like that at the moment.
I've found this to be true. People always stick me in the middle seat because I'm the smallest, but it doesn't really make a difference where anyone sits. The back seat doesn't magically become larger when the smallest person goes in the middle. What sucks about the middle seat is the extension of the center console on the floor in the back. There's less leg and foot room for the person in the middle seat, which means the person in the middle seat has to keep their feet in someone else's foot space.
I agree that generally someone shouldn't be made to sit in the middle seat just because of their body. I think the point the OP is making, however, is not that the middle seat is too small but that on a bench seat the middle seat belt is usually significantly shorter than the other belts and can be impossible for a larger person to fasten.
Well, that is a different point because of safety issues. If that's true, then yes everyone should be able to buckle their seatbelt. But again I'm thinking of cars I've been in and I think the seatbelts are the same length. Often the middle seatbelt doesn't have a shoulder strap, but that's a slight safety issue for anyone (and then why should skinny people always be the ones to risk greater injury in a car accident because they don't have a shoulder strap? Spread the risk, if it has to be there.)
In most cars, the issue with the middle seat is the lack of leg room. So what if we said the person with the shortest legs should have to sit there, even if they are fat? I doubt anyone would love that plan either.
If the middle seat doesn't have a shoulder strap, that's usually indicative that it is shorter. Otherwise I agree with you; if everyone is physically capable of buckling up then there's absolutely no reason why a larger person shouldn't go in the middle sometimes and suck it up like everyone else.
The middle seat belts with no shoulder strap are adjustable, usually they go really long. Maybe if you are using the shoulder part AS part of the lap belt somehow, then it would end up being longer, but I'm not sure if that would actually work with the way they're set up.
Anyway, the comment was that the person with the smallest ass gets the smallest seat, there was no mention of seatbelts at first. And my point was that you have a bench with 3 people on it, and it doens't matter what order they sit in, there is going to be the exact same amount of room on that bench. The middle seat is less comfortable for a lot of reasons-- you don't have a door to lean against or brace yourself against on curves, for example, or you have the console under you so it slopes funny-- but those are things that are going to be uncomfortable for anyone.
I don't personally tend to have a problem with the length of the belts although I do have to stretch them to their length so I can attest that they don't go "really long", but yes most people do not have a problem with them. As for sitting in the middle, I completely agree with you; I sit in the middle a lot and if someone could fit the belt but still refused to sit in the middle because they were overweight...well I don't tend to make friends with selfish drama queens.
Our default was just that the person with the longest legs shouldn't sit in the middle.
I'm confused about the comments about being someone's chair, or being comfy. Do adults seriously sit on you? That seems bizarrely strange and rude to do to anyone.
I think it refers to when you're getting snuggly with someone? I'm fat. I've done that to my fatter friends, snuggled against them and called them comfy. They didn't seem to mind.
But then again, we all openly call ourselves fat, so using a word that means fat isn't exactly going to hurt our feelings.
Yes, some of my friends like to sit or lie on me because I'm "squishy". It's annoying as hell.
In fact, even just random acquaintances will sit on me. If it's a party and there aren't any chairs left the fat person gets "playfully" sat on because most people assume that larger = able to withstand more pressure on the knees. That or I'm just less bony to sit on. Not entirely sure.
When it comes to things being sized to everyone, like seats, I think in future there will be more wide seats built into auditoria and airplanes, but for now, existing construction remains what it is. In an auditorium you can bring in wider seats for bigger people but you can't do thisn an airplane. I think if obesity is a disability it will probably be regarded as temporary. It's also preventable so not quite the same category as paraplegia. If I'm an alcoholic and not drinking will solve my orientation and social problems, then should I expect society to just give me easier, deserted roads to drive on because I can't control my drinking? And as a smoker, do I have the right to expect to be exempted from anything that winds me because I don't want to quit smoking and improve my lung function?
Except for the scientific fact that obesity isn't "preventable." Nor is it an addiction like drinking or smoking.
But thanks for bringing the conversation way down intellectually.
Since when is obesity not preventable? Obviously barring some kind of medical condition, I mean. Do you have a study?
Obesity is definitely preventable. Some people are more prone to it than others, but that does not mean it cannot be prevented. I'm not saying it's easy, but it's possible.
Have you noticed how professional athletes get fat when they retire? If you exercise for hours every day, and have good eating habits, you will not get fat unless you are a very small fraction of the population that has real medical problems.
I don't have anything against fat people, and I am about 15 pounds overweight. I just can't agree when you claim to be powerless over your size. You very well know that almost all obese people would lose weight with a controlled diet and two hours of exercise every day. I would lose weight that way too. Unlike you, I can admit that I don't have a strong enough desire to do that. I want to eat butter and bacon.
The next time you see someone with a six-pack, ask yourself: How does my diet compare with him? How does my lifestyle compare? I know that I eat fatty food and spend my time in front of my computer.
I will concede that as we advance into middle age, it becomes harder to stay fit. I only object to young people claiming helplessness, to 170 pound 12-year-olds thinking their size is an inevitability.
I agree completely. I've watched obesity come close to killing relatives who were strident supporters of all things fat acceptance until a series of very close calls at the ER - relatives who have since successfully undertaken the difficult task of losing weight and keeping it off, but have to deal with the fact that they'll still likely face increased serious health problems and earlier death after the years of morbid obesity. And we've probably all seen firsthand the socioeconomic dimensions of obesity, which could be curbed someone even with basic education (on working basic exercise into a busy daily routine or healthier cooking even with limited time and ingredients) - to say nothing of all the underlying problems (which must be addressed but even an ideal world would take much longer to remedy - no sense putting off health measures in the meantime).
I also agree that it's not okay to get intrusive with strangers or to mock or shame people - of course it isn't! But at the point where people can't walk up a few flights of stairs, walk outside in winter (ice is a fact of the season), or fit into most seats, it's inevitable that relatives and close friends will be concerned, and that it will become a public health issue. Cruelty isn't acceptable, but neither is leaving millions of people to suffer serious illness/injury and premature death of avoidable causes under the guise of "acceptance."
Erm... That was supposed to be a reply to a different post. Sorry for the incompetence...
So all of us out here trying to lose weight should just stop, because we actually aren't responsible at all for our size? There is nothing we can do about our weight and health? I'm really glad you pointed this out, so now I don't have to go running tomorrow. It won't do anything, right?
What does number 34 mean, whose fault is it?
I'm guessing its her friend's fault for dragging her into Abercrombie and Fitch? I dunno, it does need a bit more context. Do you think she wants her friends to go along with her to stores where the clothes don't fit them or their style?
(That doesn't even have to be a size issue-- when I go shopping with friends someone inevitably spends time sitting around bored while the other person tries on clothes.)
hmmm...I don't know how to feel about this particular post. on the one hand, I think it is extremely important to be accepting of all sorts of sizes of people, on the other hand, I don't understand the tone of some of the post.
additionally, at what point do we admit that this is a problem that can kill you and that is preventable?
size does not relate directly to wellness, no, but let's be honest here -- if you can't walk up stairs, you are not healthy.
should you be judged for this? no. but in another one of the points you say there isn't a correlation between weight and wellness. that's nonsense.
obesity is killing us, and it's killing poor people in higher numbers. rather than accepting fatness as a societal reality, we should try to help people access better food and exercise.
no, we should never judge people for their weight, but simply adding larger seats to planes will not solve the larger problem of more people being much heavier now than ever. the same goes for plus size stores. I don't think we should shame anyone into decreasing their size, but I do think we should admit that obesity is a problem, and that we can do something about it.
^ sorry, when I say accepting fatness as a societal reality, I mean societal reality that is unchangeable and the new norm
Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that the responses to this post were so overwhelmingly negative. To me, that's a sign of fatphobia. The OP says (to paraphrase) that this list is a diatribe expressing frustrations, but I think people are responding to it as a list of demands that infringe on non-fat people.
The point is not that fat people who are unhealthy shouldn't strive to be healthy, but that other people should be more sensitive about not shaming fat people or making them feel like failures.
"Just lose weight and exercise" vastly oversimpifies things. Making fatness a failure of will turns a blind eye to reality of many people's lives. One of the posters above said (to paraphrase) "fat people will certainly lose weight if they exercise two hours a day." That is utterly classist, in that it assumes that someone has the privilege of TIME to do that. Also, preparing healthy, low-calorie meals can be quite a challenge -- how much do fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and fresh fish cost in comparison to a box of mac and cheese or a meal at McDonalds?
It's like fat people are somehow offending non-fat people with their fatness. Ughh.
A lot of this I love and agree with. Some of this kind of pisses me off. Especially this:
"8. Don't call yourself fat, I'm uninterested in hearing that"
Just because you may be a larger size or have more body fat than your counterpart does not mean that he or she isn't entitled to express their own insecurities with their bodies. Low self esteem effects everyone, regardless of how attractive or thin others see them. Is this how you would treat your friends--dismissing their insecurities because you believe your own are more valid? They come from the same image of the "normal" yet mostly unattainable women's and men's bodies from the media. Just because you may perceive your friend to be closer to that ideal doesn't mean he or she can't feel that same intense pressure to achieve that ideal. Jeez.
Sorry, but as someone who spent years struggling with an ED and everyone ignoring it, this really hit a nerve.
Yes! I agree with this 100%