I recently stumbled across this clip of pastor John Piper, from my hometown of Minneapolis. He is giving a sermon on the anniversary of Roe v Wade and speaking directly to Obama about his position on abortion.
While I do not agree with Piper's position on abortion, I think his sermon was fine. Meaning, it was not particularly hateful or condeming. Until....he starts talking about the Obama daughters and how the President should want them, chaste, clean, married, not receiving reproductive freedom, and having babies. Something about it really rubbed me the wrong way.
Perhaps that is because I know how Pastor Piper's church, Bethlehem Baptist Church and ministry (Desiring God) do much to promote patriarchal gender roles. Oh, but it's OK because they call it "Biblical Manhood and Womanhood". The Desiring God website is a treasure trove of oppressive views that have been around similar fundamentalist congregations for years.
Here's his take on the horrors of "secular feminism" and their silly distinction between sex and gender.
And, if you're in the mood for more, well I have another clip of him defending "Biblical Manhood and Womanhood" because he says it is not saying that women suck but that they "complement" their husbands. Instead, women do not submit based on inferiority but do so for other reasons.
This is definitely not the stuff I want MY daughters raised around.
Bethlehem Baptist Church
Desiring God
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Uuuuuuugh. That whole, "You DO, Mr. President" really skeeved me out. Because everyone really, secretly, no matter how progressive they are, wants women to be chaste and married and obedient. Ugh.
Yep, everyone is secretly longing to be part of the repressed fundamentalist evangelical movement!
If that old fundie geezer is thinking about Obam's daughters and sex, he ought to be investigated for pedophilia.
Sorry about the double post.
If that old fundie geezer is thinking about Obama's daughters and sex, he ought to be investigated for pedophilia. Someone should check his computer.
Thank you for putting two and two together. There needs to be more dialogue about abuse in Christian fundamentalist culture because it is too obviously philosophically part-and-parcel.
"You don’t want reproductive freedom for their sexual lives. You want them chaste, holy, married, healthy, bearing children, not carrying condoms in their purses."
Oh, so he wants his daughters to adhere to societal (religous) norms, to make HIM look good, wether or not it makes them happy. GOT IT.
No parents could ever want happiness for their children, especially if the children get to define happiness for themselves.
This man is repulsive. How dare he declare he knows what Obama wants for his daughters when that statement is directly opposed to what Obama has publicly said.
And the one on sexual "complementarity"... yeah, that makes sense. Women should submit to their husbands not because they are inferior, but because it is their "joyful" role to do so? I don't think so! We're supposed to defer to men when we know that we are as competent and intelligent as they are, ofen MORE competent and intelligent (by the pastor's own admission)? How is that supposed to ensure that the best decisions are made for the family?
"You don’t want reproductive freedom for their sexual lives. You want them chaste, holy, married, healthy, bearing children, not carrying condoms in their purses."
Don't tell other people what they think and feel. Out of all the condescending things you can say to a person, assuming your perspective must automatically be another person's just chaps my ass.
Also, don't refer to other people's children as "our children." They are not your children. Period.
I couldn't watch the other videos. One's enough.
Ahhhh, John Piper.
Would you believe me if I told you that in U.S. Evangelical theological circles, he is considered to be one of the chief representatives of the middle-of-the-road, moderate school of American Fundamentalism? Does that make you feel worse?
Here's a link to a comment I made explaining how he fits into the contemporary fundie schema:
http://community.feministing.com/2009/01/evangeligal-anti-feminists-get.html
Oh, and Mr. Piper: kindly stop speculating about what children will or will not be doing with their genitals in a few years. That's right, move the focus *away* from the genitalia, and towards the heart, mind, and spirit.
I know gender issues are almost THE most important facet of your interpretation of Christianity, but this is too much even for you.
And it ill-becomes you and the theological doctrines you promote. Here we are, a mixed group of liberal Christians, moderate Christians, non-Christians, atheists, and agnostics, and what are we focusing on? The philosophies of Jesus Christ? His contributions to ethics? The Beatitudes?
No, we are rightly up in arms over your appalling sermon on children's genitals.
Can't you see you are driving people away from the religion you claim to promote?
Just to clarify: that link is to someon else's community post, but I posted a comment on the thread.
Yes, Okra you are completely right. I was raised in Piper's church and went to all of the ridiculous seminars on "Biblical Manhood and Womanhood" all growing up. They are surprisingly middle of the road compared to other things I have been exposed to but that does not make them any less disturbing.
Oh, my, Feminista_84. I'd love to hear all the stories you could share!
There are so many, Okra, I wouldn't know where to start! ; )
what a disgusting individual
Dude, this guy is seriously fucking creepy.
This guy should consider a career in acting. The way he throws around emotions is ridiculous! And his concern about the sexual habits of Obama's children is exceedingly creepy. Perhaps some investigation? Anyhow, I believe Obama has already had his say on the topic- regardless of what this man thinks.
"Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old," he said. "I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information."
Townhall meeting, Johnstown, Pennsylvania.
I love our President's stance on that, it's nice to hear him internalizeing it too.
This Piper is really creepy and sick though.
is that a picture of a woman's hands tied together occasionally in his background? It really does look like a woman's hands in the prayer position with black leather cuffs and white string tied to them in some way?
i have ot admit that "christians" who consider that abstinence and marriage must go hand in hand with an obediant and inferior submissive role of women do more harm to people like me who promote abstinence than the most frenzied promiscuity advocates .