Ridiculous victim-blaming
I am so mad right now I am shaking. I have a friend on Facebook who wrote the following in response to a comment I had about how wrong it is to blame the victim:
It depends on who you call the victim. Maybe the analogy to a bully is better. People, who are attacked by bullies and do nothing about it, usually keep getting attacked. Bullies usually stop when they are confronted. Or what about women who marry men and stay with them even though they are abusive? At some point, the victim needs to make a stand in order to change that which they want changed. It won't change itself. My comment about mothers raising children simply means that they have the power to control the future of their children's ideas, so they should. Women can control some of it, if they confronted more. That is not blaming someone, that is informing them of what they can do to help themselves. The same thing with rape victims that dress scantily. They can control what they wear, so they should at least dress in less revealing clothes in certain circumstances. Of course, it will not always prevent rape but, if it gives some men less ideas, then it is a good thing.
I just don't know what to say. It seems so overwhelming to even begin to respond. The scary part is that this is a well-educated family friend whose girlfriend is doing her Ph.D. in women's studies! I don't know why I'm posting this--I'm not really looking for advice, I just had to vent.
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Well the comments about the bullying and stuff is true imo, but those examples have NOTHING to do with the way one dresses. Wearing a turtleneck isn't "making a stand" like confronting a bad situation, it's being controlled by fear. Bullshit.
I agree with Stephanie. The examples have nothing do to with who falls under the rape victim category. One cannot fully link a woman who dresses provacatively to the increased possiblity of being raped. Then what of young girls or boys being raped or elderly women. The reason why these categories are victims of rape is because they are more susecptible to predators. Rape is a power trip not a "oh I'm going to rape her because she has a mini skirt and not her because she has a flannel shirt and sweats"
That is not blaming someone, that is informing them of what they can do to help themselves. The same thing with rape victims that dress scantily.
Ask for a study, any study, demonstrating that women's clothing has any effect on the prevalence of rape.
In fact, it's usually quite the opposite on a much wider scale: i.e., the fear of rape is often used as a scare tactic to get women to change their manner of dress---and with zero evidence that this actually makes women safer.
Fear of rape causes women to change all types of behaviors actually, but there is very little evidence that these changes actually reduce the prevalence of rape within a community.
To me this is common sense. If I change my path home, get inside before dark, don't sit in my car alone in a parking lot, and all of the other scare tactics you hear about, I personally might feel safer.
But the actual prevalence of rape in my community probably won't go down because rapists--you know, those assholes---will simply choose another person. Or, even more likely, the rapist will choose someone whom he already knows. In which case modest clothes and walking home during the light, really ain't worth shit.
Of course, it will not always prevent rape but, if it gives some men less ideas, then it is a good thing.
Why does he think that 50% of the adult population should be in any way responsible for the criminality of the other 50%?
It must feel good for these guys to shift the blame onto woman. Too bad that they don't have 1 tiny shred of data to stand on. The only thing it serves is to create an environment where victims are scared to come forward. I guess that's the real reason for continuing to spout the bullshit.
Furthermore his argument completely ignores male victims of rape.
I suppose fair game in the conversation once people get over the idea of male sexual entitlement and woman as the eternal gatekeeper, is to discuss the role of alcohol use and abuse, especially among the younger set. Here there is some data to suggest that alcohol and the culture surrounding its consumption plays a factor...
"for the criminality of the other 50%?"
You first, although implicitly, blame all men for rape. You then use a one gender evil/one gender victim illustration, while complaining that male victims are ignored.
Are you starting from the original premise or just skimming comments? The blamer is the one advocating for women only to change their behavior and to take measures in preventing being raped by a man men.
In other words, he asks nothing of men, neither male perps nor the male victims whom he ignores. He doesn't expect men to partake in rape prevention in any way, shape or form. His logic to the problem is that "ideas" pop into men's minds because women do or don't do certain things.
People like this are making blanket statements to all women about watching our backs. And guess what, if I follow that fucking advice then I do have to see every man as a potential rapist asshole, now don't I?
He is saying that every woman (50% of the pop) should have a personal and social responsiblity not only in moving through public spaces but--- presumably since rapists don't wear signs on their heads---with each and every man (the other 50% of the pop) she deals with in order to not be victimized by him. And how you then get that I'm implicitly blaming all men for rape or criminality when he's the one with this reasoning is beyond me. You must be looking for shit to pick on.
As usual, you seem more interested in policing comments than adding anything substantive to the conversation.
I completely missed the context of your post "why does HE think" and for that I apologize and retract.
I was responding specifically to your post, not defending the guy in the OP.
And there is nothing wrong with me 'policing' comments and pointing out what would appear to me to be hypocritical or logically inert. I learn more about the subject at hand by challenging it, rather than being spoon fed by say, Feminism 101, which is so general that it is unconvincing.
Many commenters here (and im not talking about MRAs) police comments too, so really.
Va bene, va bene.
Re policing: yeah, I was overly grouchy about that! We all police to some degree...but that style of "line item" critique without additional advice or commentary is risky business, in my opinion. :)
PhD in Women's Studies? Sounds like she needs to go back to Feminism 101. Between the rape victim revealing clothing comment and the "I don't get why women stay with abusive men" I have no idea how she passed her courses.
Another example of how being capable of passing university doesn't prevent someone from being a moron.
Hold up. I thought that it's the victim blamer's girlfriend who is getting the PhD...
Otherwise, damn. What is the world coming to.
"The scary part is that this is a well-educated family friend whose girlfriend is doing her Ph.D. in women's studies!"
Statements are from girlfriend/boyfriend of woman doing Ph.D. in women's studies.
Well, dammit. Reading comprehension for the lose. :(
Haha I misread it too...well then I guess it raises the question of why someone so well versed in womens' studies would be dating a douchebag.
Seriously, do they have a course in DTMFA?
(From Dan Savage's column, it stands for Dump The Mother Fucker Already.)
This is slightly OT but this sentence struck a cord with me.
"Bullies usually stop when they are confronted."
No, just no. I was severely bullied all through school and I usually stood up for myself. It never stopped them, I had to wait until I graduated for the bullying to stop. Also on a side note, the whole "ignore them and it will stop" thing just makes it worse.
Ignoring is the worst tactic. Even worse is the adults: "oh he just likes you!" Yeah...no. It doesn't usually stop. But that's a topic for another day I suppose.
Wow, that's quite a jump. At what point are people responsible for their own behaviour? Ask him how skimpy is too skimpy. In some cultures, women cover up more. Does he think there's less rape there? Does he think there's lots of rape at nude beaches? No. People know when actions are more likely to be excusable and when they're likely to be caught.
It's hard for a lot of men to understand women who stay with abusive men. Without looking deep into emotional aspects of abuse, it's easy for men to think these women are weak or stupid. As a society, we need to stop blaming the victims of abuse, and spread the message to women that ABUSE IS NOT YOUR FAULT, regardless of what your abusive partner or society at large is saying. I also think that the concept of "soul-mates" is partially to blame. So many people think that they should stay with people that they love, regardless of that person's actions, because their partner is "the one."
If you're having a hard time responding, let the Supreme Court of Canada do it for you! ... But seriously, these two decisions contain very cogent and very readable analyses that address exactly this type of victim blaming. Personally, I always take great satisfaction in reading them. You might too.
Re: battered women: http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?language=en&searchTitle=Federal+-+Supreme+Court+of+Canada&path=/en/ca/scc/doc/1990/1990canlii95/1990canlii95.html
The decision which reconceptualizes "self defence" to take account of the experiences of battered women.
Re: Rape Victims
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?language=en&searchTitle=Federal+-+Supreme+Court+of+Canada&path=/en/ca/scc/doc/1999/1999canlii711/1999canlii711.html
Specifically paragraphs 68-101
In those paragraphs the unappolegetically feminist Justice L'Heureux-Dube responds to an outrageously misogynistic decision from the Alberta Court of Appeal that acquitted a 3-time sexual offender who had admitted that when he saw a woman he felt an urge to control her (so it was clearly about power, not sex). The appeal judge, among other things, referred to the way the victim was dressed. L'Heureux-Dube basically kicks ass and takes names. Victim-blamer gets trounced.