I find myself frothing over with rage today and I can think of no better a group to discuss the source of my ire with than all of you at Feministing. Over the past few weeks it has been all but impossible to avoid the coverage and speculation regarding the Chris Brown/Rihanna situation. I use that word as the case is pending, but really it's an attack, not a "situation" or an "incident". It seems everyone has their own opinion on the subject, which is hardly surprising given their celebrity status, but what is genuinely surprising is the consistency in the responses I hear. I expected a backlash from those ignorant people and members of the media who see no problem with a woman getting hit, but I really did not expect to have this ignorance and hatred mirrored in many of the seemingly intelligent, compassionate people around me. Not a single person I have talked to about this has failed to mention Rihanna's behavior leading up to the attack, even while condemning what Chris Brown did. They all seem to feel it necessary to add, "but that doesn't make it ok for her to hit or provoke him though". They will be doing fine, talking about how appalled they are by what he did, etc., etc., and then, right there at the end, they stop and say "but still...". It is this "but" that is driving me insane. I have no illusions about the amount of misogyny in the world, but even I am shocked at how many people feel the need to draw a causal line between Rihanna's behavior and the fact that she was brutally beaten by someone close to her. Though I don't need to tell all of you, apparently it needs to be said in general- there is NEVER an excuse to put your hands on a woman. Ever, ever, ever. Physical violence is a choice made by the attacker, plain and simple, not something brought on by the victim of that violence by using manipulation and mind-control.
To me the best way to see the absurdity of this reaction is to ask myself, would these people be saying the same thing if he had killed her, or in any situation where someone is murdered, or even mugged? Crimes of passion are hardly rarities in this world, but you don't often hear this same level of discussion about the victim's behavior leading up to their own murder. Why- because it would be utterly ridiculous, because in our society there is never an acceptable reason to kill someone (saving self-defense). You don't often hear of someone getting acquitted of murder because, "well they were asking for it, they made me angry". And yet, it is perfectly acceptable to apply this illogical, victim-blaming to cases where women are abused or raped.
Moreover, after these people add their "but" to the conversation, they go on to question Rihanna's choice to go back to Chris Brown, to continue to date Chris Brown even after he first began hitting her, followed by self-rightoeus lectures on how women need to respect themselves enough to not put themselves in these situations. Yet it never occurs to them that gosh, there seem to be an awful lot of examples of domestic abuse, maybe there is some trend in our society that has nothing to do with the amount of self-respect women have, and has everything to do with the amount of disrespect men have for women.
I realize this qualifies as a full-blown rant, as I am truly preaching to the choir, but I just felt the need to get this all down to fight off the feeling of being the lone sane person in a world gone mad. I don't want to think the people around me, people I otherwise respect, think so little of women, but it becomes increasingly hard when I continue to hear this day in and day out. Thanks for listening, if you got this far :-).
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What were her actions leading up to the attack exactly? What did she have to do that made it HER fault for being beaten? This disgusts me.
This is what people claim: Allegedly she confronted him about a message from his ex-girlfriend and then threw his car keys in the street. Or something like that.
Certainly not the most mature or level-headed of actions but definitely not an excuse for violence.
And people keep saying she is hot-tempered. As if that makes it OK.
My answer is that, if she hit him first it would have been acceptable for Brown to use enough force to get her off of him but that's it. Seeing how small she is, I would imagine it would take little more than a one-handed shove for that to happen. Certainly not punching her and choking her. Self-defense is one thing; retaliating is another.
You're absolutely right with your point about self defense and retaliation. Throwing someone's keys is not an invitation for violence, even if she'd punched him he had no right to choke her.
I had a girlfriend once who spied on my cellphone. I dumped her. It was easy and required no violence whatsoever.
I saw an amazing blog post about this when it first happened, but since I don't remember where I saw it, I'll just paraphrase what the person said...
"The only way that she 'had it coming' was if she was going to detonate a nuclear bomb in Los Angeles and the only way Chris brown could stop her was beating her up. No other reason. So stfu."
Something like that. I thought that was a pretty cool way to say it.
I am really confused about this Chris Brown situation. We seem to ignore the fact that she assaulted him first. She certainly didn't deserve the abuse and the pictures of the aftermath were disturbing, but she should have been held accountable in a non violent way. No one should be hitting anyone else regardless of gender.
As I've said before when you've made this claim: what is your source. None of the police reports have said anything about Rihanna attacking Brown first, hitting him, nothing of the sort. No reports from Brown or Rihanna say anything of the sort either. So where do you get this information?
This is one article I found.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/entertainment/768865/rihanna-hit-chris-brown-first
I think this information has been suspiciously ignored by the MSM.
I'll reiterate my original point, no one should be hitting one another, regardless of gender. He was wrong for hitting her and should of just walked away. She really doesn't pose a legitimate physical danger towards him.
After ready comments on this site I think many women have the 'what if this happened to me' philosophy. I think they take this more personally and how it could affect them. I've once been told women see each other as more of a communal group.
Should she have taken him back? That's really none of my business because that's part of her privacy. Its ultimately up to her and I hope she's above having Oprah dictate her life choices.
But Rihanna was the first one to lash out at Brown — after seeing a text message from another woman — and continued to fight him as he punched her, according to celebrity gossip website TMZ.
emphasis mine.
Now. What I have seen in the police report was her admitting that she had slapped him on another occasion. She also admitted that this isn't the first time he has beaten her.
As far as the business with the damn keys:
Brown held Robyn F close to him and bit her on her left hear. She was able to feel the vehicle swerving from right to left as Brown sped away. He stopped the vehicle in front of [address] and Robyn F turned off the car removed the key from inignition and sat on it. Brown did not know what she did with the key and began punching her in the face and arms. Brown began applying pressure to Robyn F left and right carotid arteries causing her to be unable to breath.
(from the police report)
The only thing I can see that got thrown out the window was her cell phone. He threw it out the window.
that 1st part in italics was from the link Velvet provided, by the way.
Another thought. Whats your opinion on this scenario. Lets say she assaulted him and his response was calling the police -- which is what he should have done. Should she have been arrested and charged with domestic abuse?
As I said above -- if she hit him first it would have been acceptable for Brown to use enough force to get her off of him but that's it. Seeing how small she is, I would imagine it would take little more than a one-handed shove for that to happen. Certainly not punching her and choking her. Self-defense is one thing; retaliating is another.
Whoops, that was meant for your first comment.
But to answer, yes, if she had attacked him and he called the cops she should have been charged.
so he should show greater restraint than her? how about no one hit anyone. geez
I think he has to. She has more to lose because of the physical disparity. His lack of restraint is more damaging to her health.
wouldnt the one with more to lose practice greater restraint. i don't see a 130 lb man hitting a 250lb man hoping he shows restraint. that's a bad tactic.
i just think we need to tell people, violence isn't ok for any of the parties
Greater restraint?
If someone robs you, do you go to their house and rob them? Are you showing restraint when you don't? No. What you're doing is being a law-abiding member of the public.
If you're assaulted, by all means defend yourself to the limit required by the situation. However, you do not continue beating someone after you've gained control of the situation. You call the police and have them charged with assault. Continuing the attack makes you - or in this case Chris Brown - the abuser.
Well, obviously, no one should be using violence. I would assume that is implied.
But if someone comes at you, you have the right to defend yourself. What you don't have is the right to harm them beyond what is necessary for your own safety.
Yeah, I agree. No one ever has a valid reason besides self-defense to use violence, in my opinion. I hate the "she provoked him," arguement, as well as the 'double standard!' cries: I haven't read anything that says she used any form of violence on him. Women do assault their partners, both male and female, and that's not cool. But people get all up in arms whenever someone points out that the majority of violent domestic abuse is male on female. Sheesh, it's just the truth. I think the number i hear tossed around the most is 85%, and from my personal experience over the past five years, that holds true.
Is that the amount of abuse or the amount of REPORTED abuse?
I see abusive relationships all the time where it's "okay" and "not abuse" because the abuser is female, particularly in upper-class communities. Guys aren't willing to acknowledge it's abusive.
I agree. I think the issue is this: Women typically do stuff like throw things and push and slap. What we consider to be deadly force and violent rage is likely a lot less common.
But the low level violence like slapping and throwing objects, appears to be quite common. We shouldn't be afraid to address it but we should do so in a context of domestic violence against men (or women for lesbian couples) and not in the context of victim blaming women for their own abuse, which is wrong in my opinion.
These are two different conversations.
why is that considered low level violence, and where did you get that term from. is it because women are not as strong as men? what if someone stated that all men do is low level violence like slapping women and throwing objects, would you consider that low level violence?
this so called low level violence must be curtailed especially if it's the initiating violence.
i'm waiting to see the video of that woman that handcuffed her husband to the bed and attacked him to show up on feministing. we need to discuss all elements of this situation instead of just hetero-male on female violence
I would consider low level violence regardless of the perpetrator to be
1) something where the victim tends to sustain few physical injuries
2) violence that is not sexual in nature
3) violence that rarely results in death
A similar distinction (albeit with different terms) seems to be made in studies looking at female on male domestic violence; and I think it's an important distinction because the data supports different patterns of violence for men vs women. For example it appears that men are more likely to escalate from low level stuff like hitting and pushing to beating the shit of folks or killing them. This is especially true when the woman tries to get out.
I think it's OK to point out that when men and women are violent, there are differences since that's what the data suggests. That doesn't mean we should dismiss violence against men (which I'll admit in our society happens a lot).
But nonetheless violence of any sort shouldn't be tolerated. And everybody is free to post here in the community side. Why don't you start the conversation about female on male violence with your own posting? There was another story about a case just last week, with the folks at Faux news victim blaming too.
My main problem---and it's the same issue that I have whenever rape comes up---it that inevitably people want to use the conversation about a woman being victimized and the complexity surrounding this, as a platform to start a conversation about false rape reports and female on male abuse.
I think my first point is more important here, that no one should be hitting anyone. As for reported versus unreported abuse? Impossible to know, of course. From my personal experiences on a DV hotline, 99% of my calls are from women. Of course, men may be less likely to even call an anonymous hotline, but I still don't think you can make the claim that violent domestic abuse is almost the same between the sexes..
Regardless of whether or not Rihanna hit him or did anything else was not the point of this post. The point is that why does every single discussion of this incident end up in a debate over HER behavior? Sure there were two people there, but only one of them is being brought up on criminal charges for assault. I would love to see as much time and effort put into discussing HIS motives, HIS past behavior, and what HE did wrong. Period.
I agree with you completely.
However I would like to add that there is also NEVER an excuse to put your hands on a man either.
There should be no violence by either gender against either gender.
"Though I don't need to tell all of you, apparently it needs to be said in general- there is NEVER an excuse to put your hands on a woman another person."
Fixed.
ah, rats. What's the tag for strikethrough?
I have been on the same rant for weeks. Nice to know someone's feeling the same way....