Thank you for writing this.

"When discussing rape, it is absolutely essential for victim/survivors to refer to themselves in whatever way makes them most comfortable."

You hit the nail right on the head. I have heard this argument before. And I think mostly, for some women that identify as rape surivors, maybe they dont like to hear the word victim because it reminds them of the things that it reminds you of. And for some it may not be empowering or encourage them to help others; possibly it cripples them. But I think it's important that people self-identify the way that makes them feel like their okay. I know everyone deals with truama in their own way.

No one should have shamed you for using the word 'victim' to identify YOURSELF.

And yes, fuck patriachy!

I was never raped, but I was sexually assaulted at a very young age (6-8) by various teenage cousins of mine. I was young enough I didn't understand what they were doing was wrong or what it actually meant.

For a very long time I blamed myself; like it was somehow my fault. Like I should be ashamed. It took me until I was about 19-20 yrs old to realise it really wasn't my fault, and I had nothing to blame myself for.

Come to that, this totally explains why I've always disliked teenage boys! I mean, beyond my attraction to men, and liking how men looked... I'm guessing there's always been part of my brain that associated all boys with that unpleasant part of my past. heh. What do you know.

But I digress. I don't see myself as a victim or a survivor. I'm not really sure what I'd call myself. It's something I don't think about often, almost never. I mean, it has been almost 15 years now. I have kind of disassociated myself from it. I've dealt with it and all - I'm okay with me, and I don't really have any feelings about my cousins now. So I don't feel the need to think about it. It still makes me uncomfortable and vulnerable to think/talk about it, so I tend not to. We all cope differently.

I totally agree however: "When discussing rape, it is absolutely essential for victim/survivors to refer to themselves in whatever way makes them most comfortable."

I completely agree. I was in an abusive relationship for 9 months and not only was I raped on several occasions, but also beaten and mentally abused. I consider myself a victim because I still have emotional and physical scars that remind me what i've been through every day. I am still working through my trust issues and am fortunate enough to have a wonderful guy now that listens and is patient and gentle with me. I am a survivor because i survived him as well as myself as I experienced self-abuse and thoguths of suicide, but I cannot and refuse to let go of myself the victim. I believe that it will help me later in life as I will always remember and now I am using my knowledge and experience to educate other girls on the signs of abuse and what they can do to get out. If I forgot about the part of me that was victimized I don't think I would be able to do that. But again, it really is about your own personal experience and how you feel you should name yourself, this is just my personal experience.

I absolutely agree. Having been sexually assaulted, although not literally raped, the "survivor" has always bugged me a bit. It was as though there was something wrong with me that I am still very much impacted by having been assaulted. I should be stronger, I should be able to just put it behind me, I should say it made me stronger, I should be a "survivor" and I am in some way inferior because I'm not.

I don't know-I think this is very personal, and there's no reason that someone should get angry with you for calling yourself a victim, or whatever you want, and I don't really understand why people attack each other over this. I was raped several times by a group of older boys, on school grounds, and beaten by them. It hurt for a long time, and I don't deny that I thought of myself as victimized for a long time. However, at this point, I tend to think of it as something that happened to me, that bad people did to me, that I didn't deserve, but that doesn't change who I fundamentally am as a person. I don't see myself as a victim or a survivor. It took me a while to get there, though.

Shame on the readers of that other blog for making those comments to you. They find it offensive that you call yourself something? Why do they have a say at all in how you name and represent yourself? I think they have no say whatsoever about how you identify yourself in the aftermath of events that happened to you, not them.
I'm so sorry you even had to post this.

I have been sexually assaulted. There was a time I considered myself a victim and that time coincided with my depression, eating disorder, ptsd, etc. It was the time I needed to cry and feel sorry for myself. I felt helpless, I felt like a victim. There was a pretty good chance that I wasn't even going to make it to "survivor." It was the time that I needed to heal the deepest cuts. I consider myself a survivor now.

I consider myself a survivor because it takes my assaulter out of it. Yes, a person did this to me. But I am NOT defined by his actions. I am not defined by his crimes. I am NOT his victim. I do not belong to him.

I belong to myself. Calling myself a survivor shows that not only did I survive the attack, but I overcame it. I'm a stronger person because of it and that had nothing--NOTHING--to do with what was done to me, but everything to do with how I handled the challenges it presented.

I have been victimized by sexual assault; I'm a survivor of it now.

Personally I resist both titles. When I accept 'victim' or 'survivor' the more I feel like I am defined by my rape. I've come a very long way since it happened to me, but I as part of my healing process it had to become something that happened to me, not who I am.

I agree that people should be able to define themselves however makes them most comfortable, whether it is in regards to past sexual trauma, race, gender identity or whatever. I also agree that you rock :)

Thank you for posting this. I will second (or third, or fifth) the comments regarding how crucial it is for people who have undergone human-inflicted trauma to be able to name their experiences and their own relationship to these experiences. These acts of self-naming and self-definition are so so important, particularly given that survivors'/victims' stories have so often been silenced or mediated through the lenses and voices of so-called experts. Anytime we reject others' attempts to define us in ways that are oppressive for us and for our own self-care and survival, I see this as a powerful act in the direction of asserting ourselves as experts on our own lives.

I think we ought to respect people's choices about what language to use in positioning their own stories and I don't in any way support those who attacked you for identifying as a victim in (courageously) sharing your own story, mayfly.

Still, I can understand where some of the severity of resistance to and rejection of that language is coming from, as I had a professor who does work on "victim" narratives, and every time she used the word "victim" in class, as opposed to "survivor," it felt like a punch in the gut. I think there is a difference though when it is other people talking *about* us as opposed to choosing our own language when telling *our own* stories. We ought to make room for both kinds of labels (and others as well as the rejection of the labels altogether, as others above have suggested) while critically considering both the advantages and disadvantages of these various ways of defining ourselves in relation to trauma. The language of both survivorhood and victimhood are incredibly personal and carry with them a great deal of emotional, physical, metaphysical upheaval, so I think it's understandable that many of us respond in visceral ways to one label or the other, but thank you for reminding us how important it is to not let these visceral responses get in the way of our supporting and empathically responding to those who share their stories and engage in their own powerful acts of self-definition.

I'm not comfortable with labels of any kind. I was victimized, I survived, and now I'm just this woman with a lot of things in my history, none of which define me. I prefer to be called Marilyn.

I feel for myself that when discussing this with other people that victim is the best label. I was attacked when I was nine years old by my brother's friends, and although I fought them off I still carried a lot of guilt around for years.

I would rather have victim because of my age at the time of the attack and because survivor - especially in light that I was able to fight back - makes it seems as if other women who are unable to have the sheer luck I did that day are somehow weaker than me.

Thanks for this post!
I have always been confused about labelling my experience. To me my sexual assault is part of who I am because it is not like other crimes, it is proof of patriarchy, misogyny and the risk women have today of men thinking they have the right to take the power they have and use it against those who dont.
Why I particularily was glad to see this post is that I felt I was being labelled a survivor even though I didnt feel that was acurate to my experience and the way I feel today. Now I know it is also 'okay' to use the term 'victim'.

I'm sorry to hear this happened to you, Mayfly. Both the rape and the subsequent "beat down" you received from people you'd expect to be more supportive. I really hate it when people of any stripe get angry at other people for not speaking or acting a set way. They have every right to view and deal with issues as they see fit but they don't have the right to come down on someone else for acting or reacting in their own manner.

If they truly want equality and freedom for all people then they should have more respect for others' freedom and autonomy than to say: this is how I act so now it's how you'll act too. I've occasionally witnessed feminists behave this way in the past and it seems to me that sometimes a person should stop and ask themselves: am I fighting an oppressive and controlling system or just supplanting it with a new one? Even though their vision is better than what we've got now there's still a major challenge to personal freedom if it doesn't allow individuals the dignity of viewing themselves through their own eyes.

I recently saw a documentary on a different issue but there was a line which came to mind when I read your post: the only thing worse than getting oppressed by the patriarchy is getting bitch-slapped by the matriarchy. Of course there's a big difference between physical violation and a verbal beat down but it seems to me in the latter there's a betrayal where you'd least expect it.

Anyway, kudos to you for being you and not letting anyone tell you you're someone else.

I think it's crucial for each and every woman to define herself how she wants to. To me, the survivor tag is meant to empower but most certainly not to oppress or to compel.

This discussion is so important, especially for those of us trying to force people to recognize that patriarchy exists (and to fight to change it)- that is, patriarchy/sexism not just a set of ideas in people's heads, its a system that allocates power to people differently.

I support using language to emphasize that. But mostly I think it's important to examine how words reveal or mask different things especially power relationships.

you can't simply wish away power inequality. you can't name it away. What I like about mayfly's post is that I think mayfly is naming what is happening in a way that focuses on the power issues involved.

This is my problem with using "survivor" uncritically (especially people who are talking about other people's experiences) --Changing the word away from 'victim' doesn't change the fact that certain people have more power than others based in things they can't control (i.e. who they are - age, race, class, gender, sexuality, dis/ability, etc), because those things place you in an existing power system where certain characteristics are privileged regardless of what you think about it.

Not to say that self-image and mental state is unimportant, but that self-image and mental state cannot in themselves alter those larger systems.

So it's good to think about how language can help us focus on the problems we want to address. I'm sympathetic to using words that highlight that rape was *done to someone* - it highlights the existence of those who rape, who are really who society needs to be focusing on much more than it currently does.

and it is super-shitty that people shamed you, mayfly, for choosing the word you did.

(not that I think it's bad to say "survivor" if it works for you. but i really really get mayfly's point here and think it's good)

You do fucking Rock! i have 3 chapters left in he's a stud shes a slut and it has started so many amazing conversations with so many amazing women. and even my boyfriend.. whoever feels the need to make you feel like shit for calling yourself whatever youd like.. needs to be kicked in the neck. (and I'd be happy to do it!)

I think in particular the inability to make sense of how those who commit violence against us can be such good people/parents/friends/lovers etc. and rapists/etc. definitely interferes and complicates these issues in problematic ways.

Yes. This. Well, in my case, more that it's hard to untangle what he did and is from the love that people I love have for him. Yes, I was harmed. I was harmed by someone else. [Wow, it still is very hard to say that, even here.] So, I was a victim. I did survive, so I'm a survivor. I'm not comfortable with either label at this time. That could change.

In any case, if someone finds victim or survivor (severally, serially, or both at once) useful ways to parse or explain their experience, then who am I to tell them otherwise?

As much as I dislike being defined by my rape and 2 other sexual assaults at all, I think I still go by the victim tag in my head.

And the reason is purely this: I see a survivor who has been made stronger and has gotten past it. Every day I think I make strides towards survival, but I'm still able to succumb to my fear and tread dangerously in the unhappy place I was after the first two incidents.

Of course, I still prefer not to tell other people about it because no matter if I've survived or not, I'm going to be seen as a victim.

I agree with, "When discussing rape, it is absolutely essential for victim/survivors to refer to themselves in whatever way makes them most comfortable."

I was sexually abused as a kid and along with many other posts I don't really ever think of myself as a victim or a survivor- because I am just me. But I think that it is ok for you to refer to yourself as both, because I was a victim during my years of sexual abuse, but I see myself as a survivor now.

I also think it was interesting that you said you felt it was important to refer to yourself as a victim so as to charge your passion about fighting against sexual assault. I totally agree, but for me the power I get from feeling like a survivor is what fuels me. Everyone is different, so whatever it takes for you to fight patriarchy is all that matters.

I was raped almost a year ago, and I am equally comfortable with both terms - victim and survivor. They both apply. I was a victim of a terrible crime, which I survived.

However, I did not begin to use the term survivor until the last few months. Mainly because, for such a long time after the rape, I didn't feel like I had survived. I still very much felt enmeshed in a daily struggle to live.

I understand people's comments about disliking the word survivor because of the sense that it includes a positive connotation of being made stronger. I wonder if anyone else here has struggled to articulate what I am about to try to explain.

My rape was not a positive thing. It was a destructive, awful event in my life. I should never have had to deal with something like that. However - I DO feel stronger now. My rape, and subsequent dealings with friends, family, and law enforcement, made me much more aware of systematic injustices in society. The outrage I feel about what happened to me has emboldened me to speak out against injustice. It makes me more capable of empathizing with people in a variety of situations. It provides me with a certain anger that drives me every single day.

Now there are times when I falter in that confidence, when I feel more like a victim again. This is why I end up using both terms. But overall, I like the term survivor when I am trying to articulate my experience.

Because I think Marilyn's point about not defining herself by either term, but also not denying what one has experienced is a central one. I find that owning what happened to me and speaking about it is often the most difficult thing. For me, my rape is a fact I live with every day. It is no longer shocking to me the way it is to other people. So it can be hard to bring it up in coversation, and I probably use whichever word I think will mitigate the kind of crazy responses such a statement often receives.

That in my opinion can be the worst part - the ways in which society both conciously and unconciously tries to muzzle a person who has been raped from speaking about their experience. People can go on and on about rape, and often those of us who have experienced it are the least likely to offer our perspective, because the way the crime is made to reflect back upon us.

In light of this, does it really matter which term we use - shouldn't we use whichever makes us feel more comfortable and empowered? Shame on the individuals at the other blog you commented on for discouraging you from honest discussion about your experience.

I called myself a survivor because I felt I needed to be defined as something that could overcome what happened to me, as a sort of reassurance. I once didn't feel like I could obtain on my own, so the title of "survivor" gave me back some sort of power that was lost. But I have that now, even without the title. I feel like I've won because I never gave up living, I didn't let what happened to me become something that defined me. I still call myself a survivor, though I'm fully aware that I was a victim of rape. But whatever helps you keep on keeping on- call yourself whatever feels right.

Thank you soooo much for writing this. I think this is such a good point! What I take to heart tends to sound a little different since it isn't so directly the issue of victim/survivor vocab. For me, at first, the issue was with the word RAPE. 2 years ago, I was sexually assaulted, in the form of date rape. For the longest time I could NOT call it rape. I felt like rape was what happened to women in alleys and when walking along highways... it was violent, and warranted only the term SURVIVOR after it. It had to be something life threatening--either the actual event, or the state that it put you in afterwards. Changing the word survivor to me gives me access to the word rape. I don't feel like my life was threatened by my rape. It was a life-altering, scarring experience, yes. But it was not a made-for-horror films dramatic violence.

This conversation is so important. Thank you for writing about it and your experience with it. You definitely have the right to use whatever terms you feel identify your experience. If someone is offended by that, that's their issue, not yours.

I have nothing to add except it makes me very sad and angry to see how many readers here have been assaulted or raped.

THANK YOU!!!

I've felt this way for a long time, and even blogged about it. I really don't like the way "victim" is treated like a dirty word in our culture."Don't be a victim" "She's acting like a victim" are things I notice more and more becoming shorthand for "Someone is confronting us with an unpleasant reality about rape." Or domestic violence, or sexual harassment, or whatever the injustice was. Someone is letting us know in no uncertain terms that there are negative repercussions to these things. Someone is letting us know that they're human.

Somedays I don't think about my rape at all, other times I wake up from nightmares about it. Am I a vicxtim? Am I a survivor? I'm both.

Thank you. Awesome post.

Since no one believed that anything had happened to me, I never had any kind of "official" label for what happened to me. I really wanted some one to NAME this horrible thing that happened. It took a long long time to call it what it was - Rape.

I don't like the whole survivor/victim thing... I don't want to just survive it! I want to be past it, and "normal" again and I wish to hell it hadn't changed me so much. You can survive just about anyting, but I've always wondered if it's worth it if your life sucks that bad afterward... I'm working at making sure my life doesn't suck anymore :p

And well, I hate victim as a label because....I feel like if I was a victim once I could be again. That I have zero control over preventing this from happening again.

I wish I was making more sense. This isn't something I ever talk about so my usual eloquence is failing me.

Totally agree with you, there.
I see myself as a person who was raped, not a survivor.I was raped and abused over many years by family members.I have had difficulty with people telling me I`m a "survivor", because (I think) the challenge of dealing with my reality was too much for them.
I think there is a big problem with labelling people. Here`s an example; Rapist - monster, father, man, son, sicko, husband, perpetrator.
Person who`s been raped - victim, survivor, fantasist, wife, daughter, sister.
People (men and women) choose to commit sex offences on (usually) people who they know are more vulnerable than themselves.
I think people need the labels to detatch themselves from the reality of rape and other sexual violence.
It`s far easier to read an article about the "Monster" who raped than the "guy next door" who raped.
hmmm, hope that makes sense