I was in a hardware store with my sister the other day and we were talking about feminism. I articulated that women were adults and I did not think of my self as their protector or provider and that women should be respected as adults. Well apparently a woman who worked there was standing behind me and overheard the exchange. All through the store I could see her pointing in my direction, and hear her talking to other workers about me being a "sissy" or "not a man" or vague references to me being a homosexual or cross-dressing etc. Basically she was expressing a lot of hatred in a way that showed shear desperation to get every one she knew against me. This is the most extreme example but I have seen other women have similar responses to my feminism. Usually they display sheer terror at the thought. I have tried to figure out exactly what is going through these women's minds that could make them so afraid but I haven't quite come up with a satisfactory answer.
I would like to hear if other feminist men have had similar experiences (or women for that matter). Also opinions on what makes these apparently traditional women so afraid of a liberated feminist man.
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Nah, they're just worried you'll try to get out of buying dinner, lol.
Also, those traditional men are afraid that they will start being pressured into being like you when ladies point to you as an example of a 'good man'.
I really don't know why she would do that...
Did you complain to the store manager? You should at the very least follow up with a written letter of complaint to the local store or its corporate office.
My husband probably wouldn't readily self-identify as a feminist, but he is one otherwise. When we married and I kept my name, my mom couldn't believe that I would "disrespect" my husband like that and kept asking him if it bothered him me not taking his name. He kept telling her, "Really, I don't care. I can't think of any reason why she would need to take my name."
I probably should have in retrospect but I didn’t have her name etc. The whole thing was so weird I couldn’t imagine how a person would even prove it had happened let alone get any justice. It was just to weird I guess I was kind of in shock.
> what makes these apparently traditional women so afraid of a liberated feminist man
I think the answer is obvious. They don't want men to leave the role of protector and provider. You, freely expressing your views on the subject, is a threat. Today you reject the provider/protector role, tomorrow other men will do this. The day after tomorrow their date mates will expect them to pay for their part of the dinner. Or ask them to go to work while men stay at home with children. Total disaster, huh?
I was going to say the exact same thing.
Ultimately though many women see a worst case scenario of a sort of limbo where the traditional femininity is no longer useful for procuring resources from a male dominated society and where they still get the short end of the stick in other areas of the society and economy.
For example, my friend's mom told her something to the effect that these days women are "stuck doing it all". That is, many more women than men took advantage of the new opportunities to re-define their role in society. That leaves women with an expanded role; but it also leave us over-stretched especially at home and leaves women stigmatized for example for taking time off for kids, etc.
Yep, exactly. I live in Russia, and women here effectively got the right to work 90 years ago (this "right to work", of course, quickly became "should work"). We have a proverb that women worked double shift. One - outside home, another - domestic work. Sometimes they talk about triple shift: Childcare is added (it is especially valid during last 20 years as goverment sponsored childcare had significantly degraded since Perestroyka).
No wonder significant number of women want men to be providers as these women feel that they anyway will do domestic work and childcare.
Most nuanced blog comment I've read in months. Cheers.
Thanks, Okra!
My brother (having been raised in a family that's been feminist for three generations now) gets similar reactions all the time. Ironically, people usually don't call him a sissy because he's really athletic and buff... but I think most people don't really get him. He's really good at calling people's bluffs though, when it comes to social injustices (not just sexism, we came from a fairly homophobic/racist highschool).
I'm a liberal who is concerned with human rights, and I certainly don't identify as a feminist. I'm very interested in women's rights because, being 1/2 of the human population, I think there is a lot of good that can be done for billions of human beings, across socioeconomic and so-called "racial" lines, by the womens liberation movement.
I would argue few, if any, men could really be feminist, but this is just my opinion, and my guess is that is already a dead horse, and there is no need to beat it.
All of that said, I have raised eyebrows in one instance for sure. I claim that in any marriage or marriage like relationships, there is sort of a multiplier going on. The happier and more fulfilled your partner is, they happier and more fulfulled you are. If your partner is a woman, and chooses not to be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen, but instead wants to do something extraordinary, it is in your best interest to assure she gets your *full* support in trying it.
Not a radical notion, I don't think! Actually, I've gotten pretty good responses on this idea. Men give me a sort of vague "you have a point" sort of thing. Women are less vague in their support of the idea.
Of course, I never answered the question! I think some traditional women will take issue with pro-feminist men because that traditional identity is so important to them. When traditionalism is part of ones identity, threats to it are taken seriously, and pro-female men are a threat to the traditional order.
those women are afraid of losing the privileges they get by solely being women. it's that simple
Sorry, it's not THAT simple.
Please see spikethecat's first comment in response to oswid's.
"Privilege" is something unearned and present by sheer default. It requires NO exertion of energy, no machinations, no manipulation of the system. Privilege is entry by default into the system, at the top of the system.
The things some women and minorities and other people do to navigate those areas of existence in which they are marginalized by others' privileges?
THAT is the equivalent of the unfavored child learning to use the dysfunctional family dynamics in his or her favor--- in limited instances, and to limited ultimate power gain, it must be added.
THAT is searching for any tool within one's reach to protect oneself from the damage done you by other people's privilege.
THAT is not "privilege."
I'm a feminist woman, and I'm sorry you had to deal with this. It just shows that men are hurt by patriarchy and sexism too, and that women can be sexists as well.
I hope you don't let these comments get to you too much. Your story shows that feminism is for EVERYONE.
You know, I'm very tempted to laugh over the absurdity of these hardware store workers' antics, but I don't want it to come off as disrespect to you, the OP. I know how obnoxious and hurtful it can be to deal with strangers' ridicule. But really, the thought of their righteous disgust and huddling in the corner hissing about the bad feminist shopper is amusing.
I would almost give them the benefit of the doubt and suggest that they misinterpreted your words to think you were one of those self-interested men who refuses to extend courtesy to women and then cries "oh no!!! But you're a feminist! I thought you didn't WANT me to open doors or pick up the bill!!"
But, since they called you a "sissy"...that theory's shot.
This story--and the comments above about some women clinging to traditional gender roles because they perceive them to offer protection in a world set up for women's disadvantage---reminds me of the women in the extreme Christian Patriarchy (Quiverfull; dominionism, etc.) movements of the U.S.
It has been observed by many astute egalitarian Christians that even though the brand-name leaders of those extremist movements are all famous men, and even though men do indeed reap earth-shatteringly high degrees of comfort and privilege and unpaid labor from these family hierarchies...oftentimes, it is once-moderate Christian WOMEN who lead their husbands towards these ideologies. They will buy the "how to be a submissive wife" books, and try to make the husband read them, and will actually get angry if their husbands do not express enthusiasm over taking over and being the patriarch of the home and leader of the wife.
There are many good theories on this, some of which include:
1. That the women are frustrated with a secular world in which women are ever-undervalued and over-sexualized, and that when someone comes along telling them that they will be cherished and worshipped, they say "sign us up!'
2. That women who have ingested society's patriarchal message that women have limited life paths when compared to men are attracted to a system in which "women's lot"--children, housecleaning--is elevated and enshrined and praised to the heavens, in which she is lauded and not ridiculed for her domestic labors, in which her very capability to reproduce is seen as the path to Salvation.
Heady stuff for people who have been denied agency in so many realms.
I have an anecdotal story which I think ties into this pretty well.
I was talking with a guy I'm pretty into and I was talking about here and a couple posts which sparked my interest. Then I said something along the lines of "I'm a pretty hardcore feminist".
He stopped for a second and then said, "why? why so radically?"
But, I think it goes along the lines of most of the experiences I've had where, when I out myself as a feminist, I get the cockeyed reaction of "what for?"
But, I've never been chastized for it, since it allows me to explain what I think needs to get done and how feminism ties into my own personal belief systems.
I remember my sophomore year of college playing beerpong and called a Feminist by this guy. I was like I am. Thanks! As men we must accept this word as a compliment! TAKE IT BACK!