Agreed. We too often take for granted the implied meanings behind a lot of saying we have. People will always say "it's just a saying," and maybe some don't shape their worldview around the language they and others use. But really, most of us ARE influenced by the language we use.

I also am confused as to why it's a norm for men think that women should have to go through that kind of pain for their man's pleasure. Honestly, I think the reason so many men get pissy about it is because they don't have an answer, and refuse to admit they've just been sucked into acting like society wants them to. They don't want to think they are being sexist or homophobic, cause those are bad things to be, and they are not bad people. I think that is what a lot of them think, at least.

That is a DAMN good point.

I was just thinking something similar yesterday: how guys often insult each other with the word "cocksucker." Are BJ's such a bad thing? Are the people offering them such bad people?

Wow. Hands down, the most interesting, well written, thoughtful post I've ever seen on this site. :D

I don't have anything to add right now. Just that I think you're awesome.

AWESOME point.

I don't know if it would be productive or not to post a sampling of the emails you've gotten... largely because I, too, am curious about their reasoning, which from my vantage point is all but nonexistent. Because, as you say, it *doesn't* make any sense, and asking someone to explain his reasoning when he says two contradictory things shouldn't be taken as such an attack (seems a little -- dare I say it? -- hypersensitive and hysterical for them to react that way).

I mean, if there's a good explanation, I'd certainly be willing to entertain it for my own edification... but I have a nagging sense there isn't one.

But, yeah. Aren't the MRAs the ones who claim men are all logical and consistent and reasonable about these things? I thought we women were the ones who were supposed to lash out like cornered animals when people call us out on our bad reasoning. Ruh roh...

I wonder if the depiction of anal sex in porn ties into this. Because every time I see anal sex porn, I always wonder how anyone ever decided that it's to be done like THAT. In my experience, it's goes very very slow, with no "banging" or "pounding" and really doesn't require too much movement at all to result in really pleasurable feelings for both participants. Plus I always prefer it while being spooned, which leads to really intimate full-body contact and lots of room for everyone's hands to explore each other. None of that doggy-style stuff that seems to be the only position they have it in in porn.

You have made such an absolutely valid point, which I have been pondering, and which has been bothering me forever, and I couldn't have expressed it as well as you have here. I see nothing critical, snarky, hateful, or sarcastic about the question you've posted. It is sincere, direct, honest, and couldn't have more clarity. The fact that youn would recieve hate mail over this is mindblowing. I wouldn't want you to revisit such hate mail, but am curious as to what these MRAs could have found so offensive. Just, wow.

And not only are their references extremely disrespectful to anyone who enjoys anal sex, but also extremely disrespectful to their partners if they expect them to as well. There is just no other way around justifying it.

If it makes you feel any better, my friend who was a phone sex operator, said her number one request by men was for her imaginary boyfriend have annal sex with them.

This is a great point and thank you for posting it! As Kate above pointed out, there are so many other versions of this (such as 'cocksucker') that we aren't always aware of.

I just wanted to make a comment about calling people out who use this language. In my experience, calling someone out usually leads to a backlash or defensive reaction. I think its because people think I'm saying "You said a bad thing so you are a bad person!"

I've been trying to get better at pointing it out and making sure they know the blame is on the broader society and not just them as an individual.

Even the feminist sensor in my brain misses a few misogynistic phrases here and there. Its a learning process! Awareness first, then on to fixing it.

The only thing people would have to change is add "without lube" to "like getting fucked in the ass." That's a pretty awful experience for anybody, male female, gay, straight.

I love the arguments that anal sex is different for women than men, because there's actually some truth to that, only not in the way the guy meant it. A lot of guys like prostate stimulation, it produces a really powerful ejaculation in some people, isn't that something positive about anal sex for men?

I think this is really interesting, and I know Dan Savage is hit or miss here, but he does suggest that men who want to have anal sex with their ladies be willing to offer up their own rear. If they won't take it, they can't expect their woman to.

The only thing about cocksucker/fucked in the ass that I can see as "explaining" it is that a man who is on the receiving end of anal sex (if it isn't pegging) or giving a blow job is performing a homosexual act. So, maybe it's more of a homophobic thing than a misogynistic thing.

But I agree with your analysis! If guys think it's so terrible, why do they expect ladies to put up with it? And kudos to the others who have mentioned that it would actually be MORE pleasurable for a guy because he has a prostate that can be stimulated.

I figure it's a hetero thing, and a homophobic thing, i.e. No one who counts would want to be fucked in the ass. Only women and gay men. And who cares about them, right? /sarcasm

"mass hysteria" indeed. 27 emails, that is quite massive.

Another one I hate is "I'm going to rip/tear him a new one". I actually don't know how exactly they think they are going to "rip you a new asshole", but it makes me shudder everytime I hear it.

This is a great post; thank you so much for writing it! This was a serious issue with my ex-boyfriend who pressured me to have anal-sex for the duration of the four years we were together. It was only after the relationship ended that I realized how fucked up it was that he could tell me he loved me and then push me to do something I repeatedly told him I didn't feel comfortable doing.

I think the issue is relinquishing control. That is how it encompasses both homophobia and misogyny. The man in their theory is supposed to always be the one who penetrates, not the one who is penetrated.

Loved this post! And your new blog too. Yay!

This is so interesting! I think about this stuff all the time.

I asked my boyfriend one time why he wanted to have anal with me, yet will never let ME do anything to him anally.
He said it's because "it's going to hurt" him and he doesn't have any interest in being hurt.
And I said well, it might hurt me in the beginning too.
And he said "that's why it's your choice, and if you don't want to, I'm fine with that."

So it sucks because I want to try anal, but I want to be able to do it to him too, but that's not his compromise. But I don't want to do anything HE doesn't want. You know?

lol. Sorry this reminded me of my relationship.

Both receiving anal sex and giving oral sex to a man tend to be considered more submissive acts that risk pain with a careless/uncaring partner. It doesn't at all surprise me that heterosexual guys who are at all insecure about their power would consider both horrible.

In a similar vein, I've noticed that the graphic/illustrated depictions of men insulting other men by having sex with one of the other guy's female relatives always seem to have the woman on her knees with the insulting male behind her.

That accepting and enjoying sexual positions that are more vulnerable and "submissive" is something that these guys reject while at the same time encouraging their partners to engage in reveals a troubling power imbalance in the bedroom.

Not a paradox. There's no paradox in a hetero man's mind because they perceive women as being oriented toward penetration, while obviously most hetero men are not. Its as simple as that. So while it would be painful for them, they don't imagine it being painful for a woman.

Hell most of the pain is psychological anyways since anal penetration of a hetero man suggests rape.

The deeper question is why would hetero men enjoy anal when they (mostly) frown on gay men who do? That's a question that's puzzled me for many years, but the best answer I can come up with is that its "forbidden fruit".

Homophobia and sexism almost always, if not always flat out, play together, unfortunately. The reasons for both are so mired in gender stereotypes and expectations and heteronormativity.

The apparent contradiction of the profound humiliation of a man being anally penetrated on the one hand and the purported desire for anal penetration in hetero sex on the other can be harmonized, in my mind, if one takes a step back and views these interactions through the prism of male interactions.

In my opinion, the vast, vast, vast majority of all males, gay and straight, are encouraged, socialized, and taught to approach every encounter with another male in terms of establishing a hierarchy. That is, each such encounter, no matter how trivial or mundane, is perceived by males as an arena where the male will either be assigned to the dominant, subservient, or neutral position vis-a-vis the other male. And males are taught to never, ever allow themselves to be put in the subservient position against their will. You don’t always have to be dominant, and allowing yourself to be in the subservient position might be okay some of the time, but if you’re made to be in the subservient position, against your will, that is the absolute nadir of humiliation. This mindset is the underpinning for every male interaction, from who makes the most money, to who’s going to be forced to step aside for the other on the sidewalk, to who’s going to go home with the cute brunette. Every encounter is a competition.

So, in terms of “getting fucked in the ass”, I believe the phrase, at least used by hetero men, tends to include three unarticulated assumptions: (1) “getting fucked” is involuntary, (2) the person doing the fucking is male, and (3) the person getting fucked is in the subservient position. Thus, if we look at this phrase in terms of establishing a hierarchy, the male who decries “getting fucked in the ass” is decrying the act of being involuntary put in a particularly humiliating, subservient position by another male. That’s also why I believe the use of the phrase “getting fucked in the ass” may not always be indicative of homophobia; i.e., if a male voluntarily engages in anal sex, even if he is the one being penetrated, well, he’s not being put in a subservient position against his will. Remember, will is everything.

So how does this harmonize with males viewing anal penetration of a woman in a heterosexual coupling as a grand and glorious thing? Well, first, I really, really think the supposed desire for anal sex among straight men is highly exaggerated. Yeah, there’s a lot of articles and television shows where males express their urgent desire to do this, but in having very frank, freewheeling discussions with my buddies over the last thirty years, my impression is that most males don’t see it as all that big a deal. But even for those males for whom it is a big deal, there are two key differences in engaging in hetero anal sex and “getting fucked in the ass”. The first is that, presumably, the female who consents to anal sex is doing so voluntarily (I’m not going to address here how coerced her “consent” might be. That’s a subject for another post.) Remember, most males, in my opinion, don’t see voluntarily putting oneself in a subservient position as being humiliating or shameful. Another key difference is that most males don’t approach encounters with a woman with whom they are in a relationship (again, I’m assuming the desire for hetero anal sex is in the context of a voluntary relationship) in the same hard core, subconscious hierarchical manner that they typically do with males. Some males do, of course, and probably most males can’t completely divest themselves of this mind set. But I think most hetero males in a relationship are conscious that trying to “win” every encounter with his girlfriend/wife/partner will cause their partners to dump his jerky, competitive ass, so I think most try to tone it down.

So, I think I can see how straight males can consistently articulate “getting fucked in the ass” as the ultimate in humiliation while sincerely not perceiving anal sex with their partners as being humiliating for them. Or not.

This is a wonderful post, Rachel. But there's no contradiction. Most men think sex (i.e. penetration) degrades women. They don't want to be degraded, however, which is why they use phrases like "fucked up the ass" as a negative.

The notion that women's bodies are for penetration makes no sense w/r/t anal sex. In reproduction, our VAGINAS are penetrated. Our assholes have nothing to do with it. Just because our vaginas are "for penetrating" (in reproduction) doesn't mean our asses are as well. That's so ridiculous. But I guess we're nothing more than a series of poke-holes in some men's eyes.

Sometimes this place reminds me of the Oprah show, a woman never married with no kids tells women how to be wives and mothers and here we have women interpreting what men think and feel to each other. When I want to know guys think I just ask them. Yeah not as much fun as getting to label everything and everybody.

Wow, good OP and excellent comments. I've been thinking about this lately, and trying to figure out how to call out and stop these sorts of phrases. I also hear a lot of 'having to bend over and take it' sort of comments, which implies, I think, having little or no control. In that respect, I think crshark's comments above are insightful.

Any suggestions about a) how to resist this without causing defensiveness, and b) alternative phrases that can be substituted?

I just asked my room mate why he uses the phrase "fucked in the ass" and what he pictures when he says it (yeah, he looked at me really oddly before answering). This is what he had to say:

"If/when I ever use that expression, I use it because being fucked in the ass sounds painful. "Fucking" doesn't sound gentle, and "the ass" is a place where gentleness would be appreciated.
As for what I picture? Uhm.. I try not to?

But then, he's not really part of the hypothetical double standard because he's actively disinterested in anal sex (giving or receiving): "I have about as much desire to do a girl in the bum as I have desire to eat a fistfull of my own hair"

Yeah... it's kinda like how dudez call women bitches all the time, and when a woman calls them a dick or an asshole, a lot of guys (at least guys I know) don't seem to care too much, but if you call them a bitch, they get super offended. Cool. :-\

"Don't you think we hear you when you talk?"

THIS.

Sheer genius!

Excellent post, Rachel. I really appreciate what you have to offer anytime you write or comment.

This is something I have also thought about before, but would not have written it quite so eloquently.

Great thread!

This reminds me of the "pound-me-in-the-ass" federal prison talk in Office Space. I think a lot of such guy talk has to do with the presumed element of non-consent in such a "transaction." It illustrates how not having power in a sexual situation remains a prime fear of many guys... even so-called "submissive" straight males like to "bottom from the top."

@ jaja,

I am a woman who enjoys being submissive in the bedroom (something that I have always had both personal and societal conflict with);

Societal conflict for the very reasons that Rachel so flawlessly points out in her blog: that mainly heterosexual men use submissive acts to describe pain, and humiliation. Now to clarify, I enjoy these acts that seem to have painful and lower status connotations attached to them WITH the person who is supposed to love me. The fact that they LOVE me, is what really turns me on. The fact that I could trust them, that I could participate in these acts with them, and know that they STILL respect me, and care for me, is what pleasures me the most. I guess you can say for me, it is emotional at its core.

Now, when I hear men using these terms which describe these acts in jest, or as insults outside of the personal context (especially if it is the same person whom I engaged in these acts with, whom I love and is supposed to love me) it is especially hurtful, because it is a type of betrayal and denigration.

So using the excuse that some people like the humilation is a cop out. People like the role playing, the submission to someone they love, but I would never think to be humiliated as a whole, as a person, especially by someone who is supposed to hold them in a higher esteem.

*Sorry if this posts double, I could not see the first one.

I think you make a valid point with the connection between what men will sometimes ask of their female partners and what they will colloquially state is demeaning.

I think it runs in the same vein as people who call things "gay" or "faggy" and then stick up for gay rights. They don't think about the words they're using and how they project into the conflict in values it represents.

ALSO, maybe I'm dense, but I don't know what MRA stands for. Forgive me if I'm just slow.

I was averse to even oral sex for the longest time because men use "cocksucker" as an insult (and I have forever been friends with only boys.)

I question/correct my boyfriend any time he uses "sucks dick" to mean something is negative. If he wants me to do nice things for him, he needs to acknowledge that they are nice things.

I'm curious....is anal sex really that popular in the US? From the OP's post, it seems that a majority of the men in the US are into anal sex...when did it become so popular????

I read an Australian men's mag yesterday, and they asked a group of heterosexual women whether they would YES or NO if their boyfriends/husband wanted the women to put a strap-on on and perform anal penetration on him. 16% said YES the rest said NO. It was interesting to read the comments of the women who said NO. One said "I would question his sexuality".

So it appears to be that some women are not comfortable performing anal sex on a man due to stereotypical ideas about straight men's and women's sexuality.

Thanks Rachel, this is an AWESOME post.

I think it does a great job (comments included) to highlight how inherently sexist and homophobic our language is.

It took me a stupidly long-time to realize how many common insults are inherently sexist/homophobic and to stop using them. Also, I'm not sure who used it above, but isn't "douche" also a bit sexist?

I can see how your post sparked such a reaction, as when I correct hetero male friends about this sort of thing they always, always, ALWAYS get uncomfortable and things get all awkward.

Male privilege leaves us men pretty blind and stupid most of the time. I guarantee you that most hetero men have never even thought of the correlation between using terms like "that test fucked me in the ass" and how (at least in America) anal sex is glorified as one of the top 3 sexual acts you can achieve as a "man's man." Sigh.

When men's magazines, such as the ones cited in the original post, refer to anal sex, they mean a man penetrating a woman with his own, natural penis. But to answer your question, I'm not sure how popular this activity is in real life, but in the last couple of years, it's become a very popular topic for men's "lifestyle" magazines. (By which I mean magazines that aren't actually pornography, but that celebrate materialism and casual misogyny as an integral part of masculinity.)

Just mousing over the links above, without even clicking on them, however, one does get the idea that this particular sex act is talked about more than it's performed. The two ways it tends to be written about in guys' magazines are either basic tips on how to do it or advice on how to "get your girlfriend to try anal" (which appears to be the title of the second link). But it does seem to have been established, just in the last couple of years, as an item that every red-blooded American male should want to check off on his personal agenda of sexual conquests.

TL; DR, In other words, I don't think that actually *performing* anal sex is all that popular with heterosexual American men, but talking about it certainly is.

I'm critical of feminism, but not an MRA.

Theres more to gender issues than the two teams, believe it or not.

As I sit here reading this, I'm actually wearing a t-shirt that says "I (heart) Doing Boys in the Bum".

I say if they're going to expect us to be willing to let them stick things in our asses, they should be just as willing to let us stick things in theirs.

I think your actually reading it in the wrong context. When a strait man talks about getting fucked up the ass he’s talking about getting fucked up the ass as in, by another man. As a strait man I can tell you that would be pretty awful. I don’t really think anal sex with a woman would necessarily be better. Maybe it has something to do with tightness, not really sure where their coming from with that. The cock sucker thing is the same, it’s talking about male on male with the assumption that of course women would feel sexual attraction to men and therefore it would not be degrading for them any more than for a man to give oral sex to a woman.