So I've really been enjoying all the talk about feminist weddings in the blogosphere -- because I'm in the middle of planning my wedding. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one trying to balence my beliefs with all the wedding industrial complex bullshit. And mine is a same sex wedding (in a place where it is currently not legally recognized), which just makes the planning full of extra difficulty.
So I was really excited to read Jessica's latest article at The Guardian about planning her feminist wedding . Overall, the article was great. At least until I got to this part of the last paragraph :
So, while our wedding will be politicised, it won't be a feminist caricature: I won't be sporting Birkenstocks under my dress and we won't ask the "Goddess" for a blessing.
That's when I started to see red. Because both my fiancee and I are Pagan. And we will be asking the Goddess for a blessing on our marriage -- and we won't be doing it in "scare quotes".
It makes me really angry to see my faith thrown out there, by someone who doesn't share it, as a caricature. The definition of caricature is " exaggeration by means of often ludicrous distortion of parts or characteristics". And for some of us, invoking the Goddess at our wedding isn't ludicrous or distorted, its a fundamental part of our spiritual belief.
My financee was raised Wiccan, this is the faith of her family being disrespected. I converted to Paganism from Catholocism in my late teens and have spent the last decade having to justify that to people who think that the only reason people become neo-pagan or Wiccan is to be goth and trendy (because it's a TON of fun to have to justify my spiritual beliefs to strangers who know nothing about them besides stereotypes gleaned from movies and episodes of Charmed but who insist they must know more then me).
You think planning a feminist wedding is hard? Try planning a bisexual feminist Wiccan wedding. Yeah, there really are very few books or guidelines for that. We have found one book that has been good (Inviting Hera's Blessing : Handfasting and Wedding Rituals by Raven Kaldera and Tannin Schwartzstein). We're struggling not just with dads walking us down the aisle, but with entire swaths of family members who don't understand our religion and think that we are crazy. We can use all the support we can get.
Our feminism plays very strongly into our religion. We honor the goddesses, we honor women's roles in sacred space, we honor women's labor, and we listen to women's words. Most Wiccans and Pagans are feminists -- because some of us came to the religion looking for something that wasn't patriarchal and because some of us have learned to be so from the amazing women in our circles. Wiccans and Pagans do a lot of feminist work, from individual or group spellcasting and prayer, to all the amazing women I know who are or have been activists. And when anti-feminists accuse feminists of being lesbians who practice witchcraft, some of us are. It's hard for us when we hear other feminists defend themselves from that charge by ignoring that we exist.
And to Jessica :
Wear Birkenstocks to your wedding or don't, it doesn't matter. Make the wedding you want, since no feminist police is coming to force you to add or subtract anything. But I would give a bit more respect and consideration to whose spiritual beliefs you otherize and characaturize in the process of defending your choices. It really fucking sucks to see a prominant activist put your spiritual beliefs in scare quotes. It's not funny to see your faith thrown into some thoughtless joke. It was just not fucking cool dude, not cool at all.


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Sarah, you're totally right - it was a bad attempt at a clever quip that was really just disrespectful. I wasn't thinking, and I'm sorry.
Jessica, I accept your apology and thank you for offering it. And thanks for putting it up publicly on the community site for everyone to see. It really means a lot to me and my fiancee.
Of course. Thanks for accepting, and apologies again for the hurt it caused.
It's fine, we're cool :-)
Thank you. Both my weddings included invocations to the Goddess.
Yep, the gods were present at mine! Really glad I didn't see the original article until now, I would have been seeing some red too.
Nice job, sarah (and jessica for the apology). We all need to keep working on being respectful of all things. [From an old b-town friend]
I've always found it's actually more offensive for someone who does not believe in a deity to invoke them because it's somehow "spiritual" or "politically correct" that way. I know I would not want someone in a wedding who I knew was not Buddhist to have a Buddhist invocation, unless they were active in the Buddhist community or something that made the religion important to them-- the religion, not the idea of multiculturalism or politically correct. The only religious aspects of weddings should be those which the couple personally believes in or is deeply connected to.
Maybe it's just me.
I think that you misread this post entirely.
My complaint is not that she *should*invoke the goddess at her wedding, but that joking about how silly that would be is disrespectful to those of us for whom it is a serious spiritual practice.
I know what you mean about having to try and explain your beliefs to people who get their entire knowledge of Wicca from shows like Charmed and movies like The Craft :S
Jessica, I was also troubled by the apparent need to defend your relationship/wedding choices at the expense of those against whom you want to differentiate yourself. But I realize it's near impossible to cover all your bases at once or get everything right all the time, and I appreciate your apology.
On another but similar note, I wanted to address your more recent article "Radicalizing Love." I'm also, like many others, concerned by your use of that title, given that it seems a sort of misappropriation of an ethic under which women of color have been organizing, theorizing, and shaping their lives and movements. And your article doesn't really adequately address or reflect or acknowledge this work, which makes it read in a way that is extremely hurtful and dismissive.
You write:
"Women's and gender studies classes have a familiar canon. Women, Race and Class by Angela Davis. The Feminine Mystique by Betty Friedan. Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center by bell hooks. Books about love as a form of capitalist enslavement and adultery as a radical political act -- with pictures of lingerie-clad women on the cover, to boot -- don't often make the cut. But of all the feminist literature I've read, from Judith Butler-style high theory to photocopied 'zines, it is Laura Kipnis' Against Love: A Polemic that most profoundly changed the way I think about politics."
I'm not sure if this is how you mean for this to read or not but it sounds as though you are suggesting that the other women you cite take an uncritical view of love.
I won't link any of the criticisms of your article here, you may be aware of them already, and maybe you have addressed this elsewhere, in which case I apologize for rehashing. But maybe there is some other background behind your title that I am missing and the seeming misappropriation is inadvertent? Though it just seems unlikely since I'm assuming you are fairly well read and up to date with what is going on in the blogosphere, outside white corners, that is. Anyway, I don't mean any disrespect, but I just found it really troubling and disconcerting to reduce radicalized love to such trivial things as refusing to buy wrinkle cream. I mean there's a place sure for the kind of radical self-love that refuses wrinkle cream and I don't mean to trivialize that altogether, I just think there is an awful lot missing here and I'm troubled by such casual and seemingly unreflective use of terms like radical love.
The first page of Google results for "radical love" gives only two entries related to the WOC-generated notion. Indeed, a further search for the term indicates its prominence in Catholic thought, rather than anti-racist organizing. The term is evidently general enough that no one thinker/movement can own it entirely.
The critiques at BFP's blog centered on the privileged perspective of Kipnis's polemic. Involved here are
1. the problematic assumption that only upper-class white women are affected by broad social trends related to marriage;
2. the always demagogic, thus exploitative, invocation of the non-privileged by those purporting to speak for them on the basis of shared identity;
3. the troubling derivation of "white skin embodying and reproducing privilege" from the ideological repertoire of twentieth-century totalitarianism, most of which originated in European thinkers: Rousseau, Hegel (cf. interwar fascist notions of authenticity, Stalinist show trials, Khmer Rouge attacks on "intellectuals," cities, bourgeois decadence, etc.).
Finally, it's just as racist, indeed a particular form of middle-class white liberal racism, to simply defer to the objections of individuals who claim to speak for or be identified with women of color, as if this identification (like all identifications, agential and socially constructed) could confer an automatic validation on their ideas. This is condescending and infantilizing; to treat someone as an equal is to honestly weigh and respond to their arguments.
Thanks for your response. I don't at all mean to suggest that the objections made by some women of color are de facto valid by way of being made by women of color (I didn't even realize that was a common assumption, since so often in feminist circles it has seemed to be the opposite!)
I also didn't realize the objections made at bfp's blog could be so quickly and easily synthesized and boiled down to a problem with Kipnis and not other current trends among feminists. I'm not sure that I agree with that but wouldn't want to speak on others' behalf or homogenize the views being expressed over there.
I'm not sure who you say I am condescending and infantilizing--that is, whose arguments am I not fairly responding to? What I am saying is that I don't understand Jessica's setting hooks up as a canonical foil to Kipnis' critique of capitalist forms of love as though it doesn't exist in the canon she cites.
And no, I don't think that women of color "own" the idea of radicalized love, but it seems strange to speak about radical love as a feminist blogger while eclipsing the work of women of color bloggers in this area.
I'm pretty sure you just seriously reduced an active and ongoing discussion to what Google brings up on the first page?
Seriously?
I read the original article in The Guardian. I am a man (crikey!) and found the article quite funny - it confirmed what I suspected about Guardian Readers: they are a strange breed and Feminists are ever so serious ("...I blogged about the struggle Andrew and I had getting engaged in the same month that California overturned same-sex marriage rights. We had actually discussed not getting married until everyone could..").
The comments above, however, also confirmed my other suspicions: Feminists can be *so* humourless! Relax, girls: life is too short to take offense at off-the-cuff remarks that mean no harm.
Wow yeah, I wonder why Jessica even took into consideration an issue that she holds dearly when she was making a decision in a similar vein. It's called solidarity.
You should really go read that particular post, it was a good explanation of the issues surrounding politicizing personal decisions.
Also, I guess being marginalized isn't really that big of a deal when it's not happening to you on a daily basis.
Humorless feminists?!! OMG, I've never heard that before!!!! Thanks for the constructive critique. I will change my politics and personal views accordingly.
And your a douche.
Oops, spelled 'you're' wrong.
I also notice you call yourself a 'man,' and us 'girls,' so you're also a patronizing douche.
I don't get the serious, humorless feminist stereotype. Why isn't there a humorless conservative stereotype? Anyone ever watch Bill O'Reilly? He's not exactly a bundle of joy...
Oh dear, PBG, I have upset you haven't I?
1. Yes, I am a 'man'. I am not ashamed of it, or of the term. What term should I have used instead of 'girls'? 'Women'? Oops - it includes 'men' so that is a no-no. 'Ladies'? No, too upper-class.
2. You seem to place people into two groups: the ones who agree with you (the good ones), and those who have a different opinion (the bad ones). Have you considered that maybe some of us can have different opinions and be nonetheless quite decent human beings?
3. I have never been called a douche before. Since I live on the other side of the Atlantic, I had to look it up. The fact that you seem to be insulting me does not make your point any stronger - in fact it reinforces my original statement. Relax a little!
4. If I were as serious as you seem to be, I would respond in kind and attack you for being USA-centric. Who is Bill O'Reilly? Aren't you being presumptuous in thinking that everyone, everywhere knows and follows US politics?
5. No, no one is suggesting that you should change your politics. Because of a comment on a website?! Hey, come on - surely it is possible to read opposing views (isn't it?).
6. For your information, I have read Feminist books (some of them are tough going, I must say). And I love the greatest Feminist icon of them all: The Blessed Margaret Thatcher.
I don't need to calm down, I'm completely relaxed. You might think I'm humorless, but I think I'm hilarious. What's funnier than calling an obnoxious troll a douche?
And yes, we are called women. And we actually have quite a few regular commenters here who are men, so you probably shouldn't feel too special.
And it's only sarcasm, don't get so offended!
Hello again,
So, you think I am an obnoxious troll? Pretty strong language - I have earned that moniker for saying that I find Feminists 'ever so serious'. be that as it may, it makes me wonder what you'd call a murderer.
If 'women' is acceptable is OK, then fine, I have no problem. But when I was at 'college' it was a no-no: see for example http://userpages.umbc.edu/~korenman/wmst/womyn.html.
As for sarcasm, it is a very difficult weapon to yield. Better to be avoided.
Troll means someone who comes onto a website just to disrupt the conversation or tell the people who are engaging in the conversation how stupid they are being. It doesn't mean evil person. I gather from what you said about what I'd call a murder that you are unfamiliar with the term troll.
You will find lots of snark and sarcasm on this website, so be warned.
The point wasn't that she made a joke that the op "didn't think was funny," but that she said something casually that dismissed a whole lot of people, which is something that she's condemned in the past. She realized it, and apologized. Just because you think something is a silly quip, and hahaha, you girls shouldn't take life so seriously, doesn't mean that it doesn't mean something to someone else. If someone you looked up to just dismissed something that was important to you and called it a joke, you probably wouldn't be to chuffed.
Zp27, you are right. Up to a point.
"Just because you think something is a silly quip, [...] doesn't mean that it doesn't mean something to someone else."
However, and this is actually part of my initial point: not everything weighs the same on the scale of human feelings. I stand by my comment: Feminists *do* tend to take things too seriously, and give very little slack for such things as humour, irony, artistic licence, hyperbole, and so on.
As a test, can anyone here think of a joke that is not potentially offensive to someone? No? It proves my point.
Sure, some women don't find jokes aimed at women and jokes that stereotype women as funny as some men do-but that's not all women, nor all feminists. This was a conversation, albeit a public one, between two people, and they've settled it. For you to come on here and say "oh you feminists are so NOT funny," is to perpetuate a tired cliche. Generalizing is a sign of laziness; because you say something that you find hilarious that I don't doesn't make me unfunny, it makes you not funny to me. There's plenty of stuff I say that dudes don't find funny, especially if it attacks their masculinity. Do I do it to make them feel horrible? No: sometimes I'm using hyperbole, irony, artistic license, and humour to talk about their penis size, and boy does that piss them off.
So are they being too sensitive?
ZP27,
I actually said I enjoyed the article. And, yes, I found the Feminists lived up to their image - which might be unfair, yes. In the same way that the image that lawyers have, or bankers have, or Republicans have, might also be unfair.
In reply to your further point. I can quite believe that a lot of the stuff you say is unfunny to guys (only?) - I'm sure they'll find a lot of my stuff unfunny too. I am a little surprised about the example you give though. If a guy said that he uses hyperbole, etc. about their breasts when talking to women, would you say that was an acceptable way of discoursing? If you say 'yes', then I have no argument. If you say 'no', then you should logically say the same about your comment son penis size.
As for they being too sensitive, I would say 'yes, they are': such comments should always be taken as 'general', and should therefore not offend anyone personally.