Hello all. This is my first time posting, I hope this an appropriate post.
A friend on mine had the following as his "facebook status". I found it highly offensive and responded to it. Perhaps I did not do a very good job responding, I had sort of an emotional reaction. He replied to his original post. I am still angry and offended, but instead of responding again and having a pointless back-and-forth discussion with someone whose mind I cannot change, I would like to hear your responses. What do you think?
(I've changed the name)
"Jim": A light beef: if you are a washed up party girl who has decided to redeem herself by becoming a nurse, when you get on a bus, please do one of three things. Either A) do your best to soften your syphilis-scarred demon face, B) cover up that faded Looney Tunes tattoo on your forearm, or C) stand near the ventilation so the rest of us don't have to endure your cheap tobacco stank. Love, Jim.
1:02pm
Flor
2:01pm April 29
I have a beef with your light beef:
Nurses are so often overlooked and unappreciated for the work that they do. People who are studying to become nurses deserve respect. At very least call her a woman not a girl, she is an adult. People don't have to "redeem" themselves for partying; and why is it that women are expected to feel guilty more than men? It is a gendered issue, if it wasn't you would have called her a "partier".
I have beef with the fact that you are shaming people with syphilis.
I have beef with your sense of entitlement over this woman's body. If you don't like her tattoo, don't look at it.
Love,
Flor
Jim
at 2:14pm April 29
I have several cows worth of beef with your spare ribs, here.
A) I made no comment about the occupation.
B) You have no idea who the person in question is, so it's pretty inappropriate of you to make assumptions about her age or her motivation for going into medicine. It so happens that I'm referring to a specific individual whom I happen to know very well. ... Read More
C) Every human being is gendered. I'm offended by the implication that I'm somehow angry at this person because of her sex. It's a descriptive turn of phrase, not a tool of the oppressor.
D) Strictly speaking, nobody has to redeem themself for anything. However, I certainly hope that people would prefer to redeem themselves, somehow, for things they've done to hurt other people. Perhaps I've been too generous. Perhaps she's in medicine for the money. Haven't spoken to her in a while.
E) Again, shaming people who pointedly hurt others. There are plenty of people who've contracted syphilis through no fault of their own, and who haven't blithely decided to pass it on to others without telling them there might be a risk.
F) I have no sense of entitlement over her fucking body. What a presumptuous and offensive framing of the sentiment. The tattoo happens to be obscene in nature.
Love,... Read More
The Middle Class White "Man"
Jim at 2:19pm April 29
Personally, I'm offended that no one's leapt to the aid of demonkind, a group that I have clearly defamed by association, here. I should be ashamed for taking advantage of my position literally above those poor hell-dwelling folk.
Give me a fucking break.
Also, he send me an instant message, the conversation went like this:
Jim: Think about who you're criticizing.
Me: I am concerned with what you said, not who you are.
I am not saying you are sexist
I am saying what you said is sexist
Jim:"Why, sir, I'm no murderer. I just kill people."
Jim: Sexism is real. Attack it where it actually is.
So, apparently I am can't recognize sexism where it really is, and his comment is not sexist at all.
Please, someone tell me I'm not crazy.
0 TrackBacks
Listed below are links to blogs that reference this entry: Responding to Sexist Facebook posts.
TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.feministing.com/cgi-bin/movabletype/mt-tb.fcgi/13385
You're not crazy. It sounds like Jim could use some serious Feminism 101. You did a good job calling him out on it, and he responded in fairly typical (if frustrating) ways. If you want to keep going with this particular person, do some research online and in basic feminist texts to give your arguments more punch. But remember to pick your battles and not drive yourself insane. Good luck.
I hate when guys try to say that whatever sexist bullshit they've just spouted can't be sexist, because they're not sexist individuals. Good on ya for calling him out on it.
Or unfriend him. Can't reason with unreasonable people.
Agreed. Is this a guy you're "real friends" with or just "facebook friends"? Either way, I'd delete him...Its way too easy to get into mega drama on facebook and its usually not worth it.
I'm glad you called him on it, but I don't know how much further you can go with this one.
Agreed also. My friendhsip group may be small in numbers due to the number of people I have had to ditch over time for their incessant misogyny but at least the ones I have now don't degrade me or make snide remarks which reinforce the gender steroetypes.
As dondaca said, I would delete him as a friend.
I just had an argument like this in my painting class after a guy said "women are crazy." Most of the class is female but I was the only one who called him out on his sexism. He claimed it was a joke. Yeah, then why did no one laugh? The teacher wasn't in the room when it happened but I told her and she scolded him. I just hope he doesn't say a word to me in future classes.
I disagree about deleting him... at least he acknowledges sexism is a problem, which sadly is more than a lot of men do. It's also a very one-dimensional way of looking at relationships. I'm friends with a lot of people I have some serious problems with. Doesn't mean the relationship is worthless.
You were right to call him out, as others have said. One minor point, though: he actually IS a sexist. That doesn't make him a bad person, just a sexist one. If it bothers him to be confronted with the knowledge that he's a sexist, then he should takes steps to eradicate sexist views from his mindset. Growing up in the US, everyone's a sexist. Including feminists. We're products of our culture, which is sexist (and racist, and homophobic, etc.)
His anger and discomfort at your comment are evidence that he sees the truth in your words. Frustrating as his response is, this is a GOOD thing. It means his heart hasn't been so hardened that he can't grow up. Definitely keep gently nudging him in the direction of feminism and I think one day you may be surprised! Although in the meantime, unfortunately, you'll probably have more frustrating conversations like this one.
Thanks for all your replies.
I didn't keep going on the argument, I said what I wanted to say and he defended himself which is fine. The reason I posted was because I figured it would be more satisfying for me to hear your thoughts and suggestions than to continue the argument, and it was.
What really got to me was when he told me sexism is real, and that I should fight it where it really is. But Law Fairy you are right, at least he acknowledges it is real. It just made me mad that because he is liberal he thinks he is somehow exempt from being sexist.
Also, you are absolutely right, he is sexist. The point I was trying to make is that I am more concerned with what he did than who he is. Like you said, we are all products of our culture, so it is more productive to undo the sexism things we do and see other people do than figure out who is sexist and who isn't.
Thanks again!
I am not saying you are sexist
I am saying what you said is sexist
Jim:"Why, sir, I'm no murderer. I just kill people.
I like that you were trying to do him a favor here by asserting that he is not sexist, only his comment, and he tries to kill that distinction with his murder analogy, effectively shooting himself in the foot. He is basically saying "yes I AM TOO a sexist". The best. There are so many logical and rhetorical flaws in what he's saying.
And what is it about him that automatically means he is not a sexist? 'think about who you're criticizing? what the hell is that supposed to mean? he obviously needs to check his privilege. And no, you're not crazy. Thank you for objecting to sexism anywhere you see it.
You did a fucking great job. Especially the point about his sense of entitlement with HER body. Who cares if the tat is "obscene"? That's such a subjective adjective that it's hardly a defense at all.