So I'm with friends the other night at a popular new hangout in my town. In between the musical acts a comic gets up to keep people entertained. I'm hanging out with friends, barely listening to comic when all of a sudden I catch the very tail end of his joke about how "...women just need to understand that all men are rapists". Not funny in my book AT ALL. So I say something (I am maybe 10 ft away from the dude). Nothing outrageous just "No, that isn't funny at all" to which he replies "well it isn't everybody's humor but I did hear some chuckles so obviously it is funny". A couple more times I say no that is obtuse and does he really think rape is funny? As I am saying these last words two male acquaintances reach over the couch and mutter words to try to get me to be quiet. I promptly get up and leave.
Being a victim of sexual abuse I am willing to say perhaps I am more offended. And these male "friends" had no clue what has happened to me in my past so maybe that is why they felt that it was okay to laugh at a joke like that and then try to get me to be silent. I felt so shitty; when I was abused I had no voice, no words to describe the injustice and now years later I am silenced all over again by people who I thought were decent. I am a fierce believer that when actions or words are wrong (meaning they violate the respect all humans deserve)the person needs to be called out right then and there. I do not wait for some crappy legislation to be passed before the next generation maybe starts to get the idea. And I feel that it is so important for men to call out other men in this way; for my male friends to silence me made it okay for others to write me off as bitchy or humorless.
Just curious, would I be considered humorless if I didn't laugh at a joke that "...black people just need to understand that all whites are ready to lynch blacks"?
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Snowscars,
I was struck by your comment: "I am a fierce believer that when actions or words are wrong (meaning they violate the respect all humans deserve)the person needs to be called out right then and there."
Can that really be so?
I guess that any joke could violate someone, somewhere. No?
If you agree, then is it not logical to conclude that you will not laugh at any joke? If so, then 'yes, you are humourless'.
If you do not agree, then can you post a joke that does not violate any human being?
Way to put the OP in a catch 22. So just because she is not offended at EVERY joke she is not allowed to be offended at ANY joke? Most people would agree that there *are* some jokes that are in poor taste, and recognizing that does not invalidate all jokes.
Also, I saw that quote as more of a challenge to the comforting thought that, "Yeah, things suck now, but it's okay because they'll get better in the future." To quote Lord Keynes, "In the long run we're all dead." If there is an injustice that could be corrected now, let it be corrected!
Qi,
You misunderstand my point (I think).
I was pointing out that her comment ("... they violate the respect all humans deserve...") seemed to be all-embracing. She did not caveat it it any way, and therefore could be interpreted as meaning "all jokes that violate a human being are offensive to me." At least, that is how I read it.
And therefore, bla bla (read my post).
As for me, I am offended by very little. However, I find a lot of jokes very unfunny; that is based on the jokes themselves, rather than the subject matter (after all, most jokes are variants of one another).
But I still am waiting for my offence-free-for-all joke!
Offense free joke:
Knock Knock.
Who's there?
The interrupting cow.
The inter -- moo! -- rupting cow who?
Funnier in person, of course, and offends no one.
Other examples abound. Humor need not be cruel.
OK, I have my offence-free joke. Not a very good one, you've got to admit.
But... I can think of two groups who might just be offended... three if you add the vegetarians.
Wow, you are so brave, snowscars. Speaking up in front of all those people. I could never do that, even if I felt as strongly about it as you do.
I have been in that situation too, so I know. A male comedian was trying to be funny with a series of jokes that I thought were misogynistic, but no one (in a room of about 500 people) was laughing. So he said "tough crowd" or something like that, and then one guy sitting in the corner goes off like a hyena. I'll tell you this: if you're in a comedy show, sometimes people will laugh at things for no reason, just because they *think they're supposed to.* I wrote a complaint after the end of the event to the sponsors, but it would have been so much more powerful if I had spoken up.
However, as one note of caution, is when you said you only caught the tail end of the joke. I'd be interested in knowing the whole joke... personally, I think that there are some cases where anything can be brought into comedy... including rape. I mean, Sarah Silverman makes fun of the Holocaust (of course she is Jewish). It all depends on how well executed it is. But kudos for speaking up, because it's more than I could do.
I'm guessing you kind of shocked your male friends who have a totally different and oblivious perspective to your pain, as you said. So did you talk to them and explain why you felt as you did? If so, how did they react? I would be curious to know...
I feel like any time I am offended or triggered by something as a survivor that I am expected to 'explain myself'. All it does is put me in the victim category so that whatever it was can be continued by the non-victim (and "normal") people. I also think that I was raped the first time, I don't want to raped continuously by having to bring up my past to explain my reactions. My reactions are legitimate, whether or not I have been abused.
The last time I went to a comedy club, the fat comic really let loose with a lot of fat jokes and not just at his expense. I didn't find them funny at all, but others were laughing hilariously. Fat people are an easy group to poke fun at, but I find that in general most people are so drunk or buzzed at comedy clubs that they will laugh at anything.
I like to respond to stuff like that by taking the joke and running with the actual content of it.
"HAHAHAHA!!! Yeah, my two year old son is going to grow up to abuse women! THAT'S HILARIOUS!!!!"
And then glare into the dead silence I've created in the room.
As a survivor of rape and sexual violence myself, I was totally with you on this. I was nodding vigorously and even said, "Seriously!" out loud to myself until the end, when you said:
"Just curious, would I be considered humorless if I didn't laugh at a joke that "...black people just need to understand that all whites are ready to lynch blacks"?
I see this sexism/homophobia/fatism vs. racism thing a LOT, and it bothers me, for a number of reasons.
First, and most importantly, racism still exists. It's all around us. It's insidious, and people who think that it's not culturally acceptable to make racist jokes may well be living in a race vacuum. I've lived in Philadelphia, the DC suburbs, and the California East Bay, and racist jokes are everywhere, even (or especially) among the white liberal elite.
Secondly, being a woman, a gay person, a fat person- there are plenty of people who are one or all of these things and are people of color, too. Pulling the racism comparison robs those gay black women and fat disabled native american men and so on and Korean-American trans women of their identity as "regular" people and puts them squarely in the category of "other", "anomaly" and therefore different from the norm.
So please, and this goes to every person out there who is allied with an anti-prejudicial cause- please stop comparing everything to racism, and saying "gay is the new black" and "fat is the new black" and "such and such is the new acceptable prejudice", because racism is real, and present, and still exists.
I've actually thought about this a lot, as I've used the racism comparison myself and been informed about why it's not always a good idea. I think the point, or at least what I have meant in using such comparisons, is that some things are socially acceptable (making rape jokes) and some things are not (making racist jokes). I don't think the intent is to somehow discount or ignore racism or other isms but to point this out.
You have suddenly become my hero.
I was in class the other day when they decided to show a video (with absolutely no warning) about men talking about how they wanted to rape women and then showing their dicks. No one said anything, and I just hightailed it out of there before anyone could see me break down.
I wish I had had the courage to do what you did. People do need to be called out on this. I would also be pissed off at your male acquaintances as well - what right do they have to tell a woman to be quiet about rape? That's exactly the attitude that lets abuse happen in the first place.
What kind of class would show a video like that? I guess it could be relevant in some courses, like maybe abnormal psych...
I hate how "comedy" gets a free pass for this shit.
Its not funny, its not pushing boundaries, its not helping people talk about things that make them uncomfortable - or whatever else the 'no joke is off limits' crowd says.
Good for you for speaking up!
You are very awesome :)
You are awesome, and if it helps at all, you aren't alone at calling out these bad jokes. The other night I had a party and a friend brought a friend. This individual made multiple "jokes" about "women's work" and "it's what men do". After I realized it wasn't just a random mis-speak (I was really wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt and not create irreparable animosity), I told him to leave.
He left. He was drunk, to which I responded "good thing you wore shoes." But someone else took him home, which made him more upset. In the end.
I'm glad you called him out. There really are few *good* standup comics, unfortunately.
Great job, and no you are not humorless.
I love good stand up comedy (george carlin, mitch hedberg, etc) and I have a great sense of humor but I differentiate between being funny and being shitty and mean. I haven't seen this explained better than in a spongebob episode (I know, I really am referencing spongebob here) called Squirrel Jokes :) watch it if you get a chance. here are the transcripts:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~goodwins/bob/transcripts/squirrel_jokes.html
in general people who are not talented and not funny or original end up telling mean jokes or using stereotypes. My theory is that they really would come up with something else if they didn't suck.
I think it's important to explain to you male friends that what they did is not ok. the reason they tried to get you to quiet down is because of their own insecurity and inability to confront something like that. They are feeling uncomfortable and awkward. I hope you can get them to understand.
why do you think most comedians don't make jokes about child-molestation? because IT'S NOT FUNNY and people will not like it. It should be the same thing with what you experienced and trust me that guy is going to think twice next time he makes a joke like that because he will not want someone like you to confront him.
there is no room for this. He should have been taken of the stage right then.
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