May I preface this with: If I am acting like an extreme bigot and close-minded fool, tell me? It won't hurt my feelings whatsoever, because I feel like I might be.
I just need to get this out, because it's been frustrating me for years.
My best friend is a very intelligent young woman. She does well in school, and she has so much potential. She does not tap into this potential because she's content being 'just enough,' because she doesn't want to fail if she tries harder. We've had many conversations that end in arguments because I try to cheer her into doing more. Now, as we're getting nearer to graduating high school, we're seriously considering separating. We've been together for six years- same schools, same after-school activities, same weekend plans- and, while I consider going to school in-state because, well, it's cheaper and I may not get into any of the other schools I apply to, she's content applying at one school she's sure she'll get into- not even applying to get into a better school, just to see. She's already found someone else to depend on that is staying in-state. That's fine. It's kind of sad, because what if she did get into a better school, even in state? If she did, she'd be closer, even, to home than the school she's applying to, and that's her whole reason to stay in-state. It's sad to see her becoming good friends with someone else and ignoring me, but I understand that, more than likely, I'll be across the US for the majority of the five-plus years after our graduation.
Be that as it may, she's never had any plans of her own until now. She's relied on me or a boyfriend to create her future. Me, because we had that silly middle-school dream of being rockstars (it didn't work because I had to write all the songs and badger her into practicing, which was plain frustrating), and her most recent ex-boyfriend, because she planned her entire future around him joining the navy- where she'd move, when she'd go to school, when they'd marry and have children. We nearly stopped being friends because this ticked me off so badly. When they broke up, she immediately tried to latch herself onto someone else to come up with a new future. She turned back to me, and for a while, she was considering moving to the UK with me after college. However, she's finally come up with her own plan.
She wants to go to college and become a teacher. She loves kids and wants to teach them. It's a genius idea, and I love that she wants to do something like that. I've been very enthusiastic about this, and I've been helping her research what and where she may want to teach. However, she decided that, as soon as she gets married and/or has children, she's just going to drop her career and be a housewife- even if it's completely unnecessary. I always ask, 'If you can have both, why give one up?' and she hasn't given me an answer yet.
Since the subject tends to lead to arguing, I've started to ignore
it. I do think, however, I figured out why she thinks she needs to give
up a career when she's married and/or a mother.
Her own mother did
the same thing. Her mom grew up in Iran, and owned a salon with a
friend. When she met my friend's father (an American), they married and
lived in the States and she didn't hold a job here. She's been a
housewife and a mother the entire time she's lived here.
Do I condemn her for this? Of course not.
Do
I wish she hadn't influenced her daughter so heavily? Yes. My friends
looks at her mom as what is supposed to be done. When you get married,
you stop being independent and you must become dependent on your
husband.
It doesn't bother her that she wouldn't have her own income (after all, she said she'd have money saved from being a teacher... uh-huh...), or that she'd be at home all day cleaning and taking care of kids. That's fine; if this was a choice she made because she and her husband decided she didn't need to work and she'd rather just stay home, it wouldn't bother me.
It's the fact that she's seventeen and thinks that's what she's supposed to do is what's killing me.
Again, it might be because I'm a very independent person, and I don't even want to get married or have children. I acknowledge my bias, but I still can't understand why she would give up a career she would thoroughly enjoy and truly wants to have the minute she is married.
Is marriage really the loss of independency to some women?
Am I just forcing my beliefs of independency upon her, or is my
concern justified? I love her, and I want to see her succeed, as a
teacher, a mother, a wife, a daycare provider, whatever she does.
I
just don't want her to settle for 'just enough,' because she doesn't
want to try a little harder to do something we both know she can do.
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As someone who is engaged, and has been toying with the idea of being a stay at home mom (and who wants to be a teacher... just about to start grad school for my teaching license), I think you're right to be concerned. It's because she doesn't seem to have even THOUGHT about her options. Has she even spent time with kids? I work at a childcare now, while at college, and it tells me that I might be able to handle it. (I want to teach high school, not elementary). Also, the fact that she makes so many assumptions. But, you may not have to worry too much. Lots of people I know grew up when they went to college and reconsidered their life choices. At the very least, she may get exposed to more of different ideas. Finally, there just isn't really much you can do.
Your friend seems very codependent - to the point where she doesn't have her own identity, and she can only imagine herself in the shadow of somebody else.
That's sad - it probably won't lead to her having a happy life - and it might just set her up to be in an abusive relationship (because abusive men like women like your friend...to be blunt about it, they make very good victims).
Unfortunately, you can't do anything to change her, she has to do that.
Which is unlikely, since she appears to be role modeling her mom, who is probably the same way towards her father.
RoseRose: I really, really hope you're right and she's one of those people who goes to college and starts...changing, I suppose.
Gregory Butler: Thank God her dad's a very, very nice guy. =/
This worries me even more!
But thank you, nonetheless.
Oh, also, RoseRose: she spends time around her little brother's class every so often, and she adores little kids. But I think it's because she feels she's expected to like them, as a female, than a real liking towards them. Does that make sense? She likes them because she was taught to like them.
Why are you friends with this girl? From your post it doesn't seem like you think very highly of her.
Some people are less ambitious than others, or less independent than others; that doesn't mean that she's lazy or weak-minded or not as good a person as you are.
I do think highly of her. This is one facet of her personality. I'm friends with her because the reasons I like her far outweigh this single negative reason.
And I hardly believe that she's less of a person than me. I just want her to look at things from a perspective of "well, I don't have to be a mom" because that's the perspective she has. Maybe my post came off condescending, but it wasn't intended.
I agree with most of what RoseRose has posted. Many people graduate from high school thinking that they have a good idea of what they will end up doing/experiencing, and then they get caught up in a totally different passion. It happens, and that's part of growing up (haha I'm still figuring things out too ;) If she gets to the one college she applied to and doesn't like it, she may transfer. Neither one of you is chained to your life choices.
I appreciate your frustration. You've been a good friend. From your post it sounds as though you have helped her out a lot; from writing music to researching schools, it seems as though you take on a lot for her.
But there's no one way to be happy, yeah? So if your friend wants to married, wants her life to revolve around family, that's how she sees herself being happy. Women who prefer to be wives and mothers over pursuing careers and jobs are not lesser people.
If you want to stay in your friend's life, she probably would benefit most from your support, in whatever her decisions are. You said yourself that she is an intelligent young woman. Just believing in her as you always have and being there to listen etc. if she hits a snag is more than enough. If her life choices really, really bother you, it's okay, but it might be a sign that you're growing apart.
You sound like a good friend, and I know people who are like your friend. But honestly, I don't think it's up to you to be worrying over her situation right now. She wants to be a teacher, that's great. She wants to start her own family. That's also great. She knows what she wants right now, and that's better than not wanting to do anything at all. She will probably change ideas throughout her life in college and dating and all that, so maybe she won't be doing exactly what she has "planned." But even if she did, why does she have to answer to you about it? If that's what she honestly wants to do, who are you to say that she isn't "succeeding" in her life?
She doesn't "have to answer to (me) about it." I'm her friend; worrying about her choices is within my rights, I thought.
I have nothing against her wanting to be a mom or wife. I merely wish she was more open-minded about other options for her.
She will succeed, I just hope that she succeeds in everything she wants, not giving up something she truly wanted for something else because she doesn't think she should do both.
Thank you, though. You made me think harder about it all.
Usually it doesn't bother me this much, but we've been talking about colleges so much recently that is was hard not to, and I needed to get it out.
I see your concern. I agree with you that what she sees should be held in a skeptical light. Some women undermine their potential in life because they play under a limited construct of female identity without having anyone push them out of it.
Let me say, first of all, I believe that you DO love your friend, that clearly comes across in your post.
However, it also sounds as though you may be unwittingly ENCOURAGING her codependency - you are yet ANOTHER strong person in her life telling her what she should be doing. Her parents/boyfriend encourage her to marry and settle down, YOU encourage her to NEVER settle and Be All She Can Be. If a person evolves from codependency, they do it on their OWN, not because someone else is standing behind them telling them to stop being codependent (do you see the logical fallacy in telling someone else to "stop being codependent!" Think about it.)
In my humble opinion, you should take your (well-intentioned, ADMIRABLE) desire to push her into Full Self-Actualization and just accept her for who she is. That means if she decides to NOT go to college, marry a guy that doesn't fully appreciate her, and work at a convenience store - you spend your time together LISTENING to her and ACCEPTING her for who she is, EVEN IF you think she could "do better." You ask about her feelings, you ask about her family, you ask about her plans for the weekend. You DON'T tell her to go back to school, dump her unappreciative husband or find another job. (If she appears unhappy, if she seems sad, then a "are you happy, is everything OK, do you need help?" conversation is appropriate.)
You seem unusually self-aware for a high school student, that is awesome. One of the toughest lessons you may have to learn is that it takes a LONG time and a LOT of work for other people to achieve the same level of self-awareness. Standing next to them with a sign that says: "You Provide Your Own Happiness" (or whatever) won't help them get their any faster. Think about the lessons your parents tried to teach you: the stove is hot, always check your blind spots, BALANCE your checkbook! Many of us had to make big mistakes ON OUR OWN before we fully accepted those lessons, even if we knew our parents were right. And no matter how much our parents wanted to prevent us hurting ourselves, we needed to do it on our own. You need to let the people around you make their own mistakes, as much as it might pain you.
Best of luck to you and your friend.
"However, it also sounds as though you may be unwittingly ENCOURAGING her codependency - you are yet ANOTHER strong person in her life telling her what she should be doing."
Oooh that could be true too. In high school, I was the bossy one and my best friend just did whatever I said, and she was always really clingy and shy... then we went off to different colleges, and without me around, she met some milder friends, and is now super popular and assertive.
God save me from my friends!
Seriously though, aren't you shouldering a little too much? I would understand your concern if her ambition was to be a pornstar or dreamed of tattooing her whole body. But 'not wanting to try harder'?
I'm sure a book could be written in reply to your post. Let me be brief.
One: happiness does not come from a high-powered job. Aiming high is a mistake made by many, many people. Not that they are incapable, but having climbed the corporate ladder they realise it is not what they thought it would be.
Two: youth often does not know what it wants. And how can it? Experience is limited, jobs untested, the world unexplored. In the end, later, a clearer idea will emerge. Who knows, she might just discover a passion for Amazonian botany.
Three: ambition is not given to everyone. You might see her lack of ambition as something to be deplored. Others do not care.
I could go on. Just for the record - I am no longer ambitious, am content with what I have and could probably have done better for myself. No big deal.
because there's no middle ground between saying she doesn't have to immediately quit her job as soon as she can and pushing her to "aim too high"(what does that even mean?) and "climbing the corporate ladder"
particularly your first thing sounds awfully like the scare trend articles about how women who work are secretly missing out and so miserable.
Some good advice.