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Hi. I'm a wife. I take sexy pictures.

Okay so I was inspired recently to ask this question as a result of the many messages that I receive anonymously in my honesty box on facebook. I've gotten messages that run the gamut of being geniunely concerned, to just plain nasty. Some of my messages have said things like: "You have a husband and you are posing in a bikini? Have you no morals?" and the very common"yo, what does your husband think of this", or"how can you be a wife and pose half nude? All of these messages implied that somehow since I was married, that I 1.) should not be posing sexily, and 2.) my husband determines my sexuality as a woman. (Some background info: I'm a glamour model and a video model. I am one of those so called "video hoes" that you see in videos and in urban magazines such as King and Smooth). 

Here's my take: I model. I love and enjoy posing. I also take sexy pictures. My husband absolutely loves them. This is a business for me and another way to contribute to our household finances. My husband is secure in our relationship and knows that modeling is separate from our marriage. If at anytime he was bothered by any of the images or shoots that I have done, then I would seriously consider his opinion and remove the pictures s that offended him,or just do commercial and editorial modeling, b/c at the end of the day, it's his opinion that matters. I am proud of my body. I work hard to keep it tight, and I am comfortable enough in my sexuality and myself as a woman that I don't feel ashamed about displaying what I do. I don't think as a woman I should feel like just because I'm married, that I have to stop being outwardly sexy.I do think as a married woman there are boundaries however. For instance, since I've been married, and matured I don't kiss and tell about the romantic or intimate things, that my husband and I do, because those details are private and only for us. Craven also has a whole computer load of pictures of me that are just for his eyes and no one elses. And just b/c I have posed in a bikini doesn't make me any less of wonderful wife . Again I think it depends upon the comfort and security level in your relationship, b/c based on some of the messages I've received, I'm beginning to think that my husband is a rare breed. I also think it depends on how you chose to define a wife's role.

Maybe I'm just being sensitive, but it irritates and hurts me that my morals, and my marriage, (which if you know me, you know I go hard for my man), are being questioned b/c I have sexy pictures. I mean I could see if I had lots of images of me making out with guys or something, but uuhhh I don't.

Let me be clear however. I'm not suggesting that just because you as a woman don't take sexy pics, that you are insecure, or you hate your body, b/c sometimes its as simple as preference. And for the men, I'm not suggesting that just b/c you don't want your woman to take sexy pics, doesn't mean that your this raging jealous insecure asshole either. I just get this idea that is has to be two extreme points of view based upon the messages in my honesty box and I wanted some clarification. 

So I guess, what I'm trying to get at is what is your idea of what a wife should and shouldn't do? What do you think about that fact that I'm a married woman who takes pin up pictures? I figured that in this day and age women were able to define their ideas of a wife rather than society do so. Ladies, what do you think? I welcome any and every type of comment b/c I'm trying to get different perspectives.

-Michaela

Posted by Mrs.stephens - May 28, 2009, at 03:14PM | in Body Image
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155 Comments

Thanks for a great post! I used to be in your shoes, the model shoes that is. I was never married but while modeling committed and basically common-law. Just wanted to say I could really relate to your post and I think that any equal relationship involves a great deal of communication and negotiation. I am happy to see your husband supports your career as this is not always the case. In you, I see an autonomous and empowered woman!!! BRAVO!

[0+] Author Profile Page Pencils said:

Being married doesn't mean that your husband owns your body. That said, being married does mean that you have to respect your partner's feelings, whether they're "reasonable" or not. That's something that goes both ways, whether you're male or female. As your husband is proud of you and doesn't mind your modeling, then more power to you! And good for you, I wish I were in good enough shape to pose in a bikini. Who cares what others say about your "morals" for posing while married. Screw them, they're behind the times. I assume they're thinking that a married woman belongs to her husband and her body is for his eyes only. Keep going with that idea and we'll all end up with our heads shaved or in burkas.

[0+] Author Profile Page rustyspoons said:

I wonder if some people want to fantasize the every bikini clad sexy women is "available" to them on some level, and knowing that she's married puts a damper on it? Or is it just a throwback to the idea that a wife is a husband's "property" and should only be available to him.

At any rate I say to each their own. If it challenges the idea of how a wife should be, or notions of who owns a woman's sexuality (she does!), then I say more power to you!

[0+] Author Profile Page Honeybee replied to rustyspoons :

Honestly I don't think guys really care that much if a woman is attached or not, especially if she is someone to be looked at from afar.

Alot of celebrities and models are married, have boyfriends, etc., that doesn't stop men from looking. I regularly hear men make comments about how hot their friends girlfriends are, etc.

And in all fairness for myself - if I find a guy attractive I don't care if he's single or not. Because I'm only looking anyways, I'm married myself so it's not like I'm going to try and get with them. All I care about when seeking this type of enjoyment is if they are visually appealing to me. Could care less if they are available.

But I do think rustyspoons might be onto something here. I think the attitude that an attractive female body belongs to the collective male gaze probably is a part of patriarchy that's reflected here. And it may not work that way for women where attractive men are concerned, because we don't fit into the same niches in the hierarchy, and we haven't been trained to think of the world as conforming to or belonging to our gaze in the same way.

A (sort of) parallel here is the way many men are offended by breastfeeding but love Hooters. Why? Because in the case of breastfeeding the female body is not being used to please the man. Similarly, when you become a mom you're suddenly supposed to become asexual, and if you immediately return to your usual clothing and behavior after having a baby, people suspect that you're not a good mother simply because you're still also a woman with her own interests and desires, etc. Of course, this is a bit of hyperbole, but these attitudes still permeate our culture in many subtle ways.

[0+] Author Profile Page BodyPart replied to Rachel_in_WY :

Many men offended by breastfeeding? In fact many women are also offended by breastfeeding. Hanna Rosin recently wrote an article against breastfeeding and was applauded by many.

[0+] Author Profile Page FlamingBiatch replied to BodyPart :

Read the article again, please. Rosin wasn't "offended" by breastfeeding at all, she did it herself and made a point to say that she thinks it is best. She was speaking out against the shaming of women who choose not to or can't breastfeed, as well as the "Supermommy" mentality foisted upon new mothers. I bottlefed my little boy, I've experienced this shaming first-hand.

Rosin's article has been unfairly maligned.

I guess I don't see how that's relevant, or a rebuttal of my comment. The fact that most hetero males in our culture both love naked titties in strip clubs and porn but are horrified by them in contexts where they're not being seen as solely belonging to men is very reflective of our cultural attitude that the female body belongs exclusively to the male gaze. If not, how else do you explain the glaring double standard?

Incidentally, during the year that I was breastfeeding I only experienced negative reactions from men.

[0+] Author Profile Page rustyspoons replied to Rachel_in_WY :

Thanks Rachel, that is what I was trying to get at. You said it much better though! :)

[0+] Author Profile Page Deimos replied to Honeybee :

"And in all fairness for myself - if I find a guy attractive I don't care if he's single or not. Because I'm only looking anyways, I'm married myself so it's not like I'm going to try and get with them. All I care about when seeking this type of enjoyment is if they are visually appealing to me."

This statement is kinda shocking. It sounds like the same excuse a man that enjoys pornography would use, yet in this situation it is somehow acceptable.

[0+] Author Profile Page kelseyfro7 replied to Deimos :

Based on the way your comment sounds, I must say I think it's unsafe to assume that every heterosexual woman has a problem with their significant other viewing pornography. That's a whole other can of worms that has been discussed often here on feministing, but I don't understand why the knee-jerk reaction to this person saying that they check out attractive men.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to Deimos :

Some of us also find viewing pornography to be perfectly acceptable, within reason.

[0+] Author Profile Page happiestsadist replied to Deimos :

I don't see anything wrong with it, or with using pornography. (I know, shocking. A woman who uses porn? How could this be?)

[0+] Author Profile Page saintcatherine said:

I am constantly amazed by the number of people who think it appropriate to say, publically, "You do X? What is wrong with you?"

I agree with your way of looking at this. 100%.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to saintcatherine :

Well, isn't that sort of the point of that Honesty Box application in the first place? That's why I haven't installed it. If someone really wants to go to the trouble of making a fake email address to tell me something anonymously than fine, but I'm not going to solicit anonymous critiques of myself.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tenya said:

I think you may catch more flak for sexy modeling in general, in keeping with a thin = sexy.

I don't think that in this day and age anything in particular is off-limits or inappropriate for anyone as long it is non-harmful and everyone understands what they're doing. Husband/wife team want to make porn videos? Doesn't imply they have a terrible marriage. I was a stripper and sometimes naked model for two years, with a lot "gasp! but what about your boyfriend!" silliness. I used to find that if I lied in order to keep up the "totally available girl" appearance, it only became more difficult to politely dissuade people of the notion I wanted to go out with them. But still, the "but what does your boyfriend think??" - "he brags to his D&D group about it" usually shut them up.
I think there is the idea from men and women that a woman can act sexy and available only until she is in a relationship, then she must not act sexual in such a way that others may be aware of it. A guy wants the girl that is acting sexy, but after that, she must act sexy only for him.

[0+] Author Profile Page safa said:

What you are doing sounds great as long as you are comfortable with it and are being true to yourself.

I think that the cornerstone of feminism is women expressing their sexuality based on their own terms and what each individual woman is comfortable with. I feel that this means that a woman has a right to not be sexual as well. I was married for 15 years and was basically burned out on partner sex. I have been enjoying masturbation with my erotic books and my various sex toys for two years now and have never been happier. Maybe one day I will go back to partner sex but right now I am enjoying going solo--and for me, that type of freedom is feminism.


[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon said:

Maybe you should weed some people out of your facebook friends list!

I think as a human you have the right to do whatever you want to do without having to feel guilty about opinions held by other people regarding your actions. Don't let anyone tell you what is acceptable for your relationship with your husband; that is something for you and him to decide as partners.

That being said, I think it takes a lot of nerve to come on a feminist forum and ask us to defend modeling for magazines that enforce negative stereotypes and gender roles for men and women. You say you work hard to keep your body tight and that you are proud of your body. While that may be true, I think you are also bringing up serious issues about seeking approval, both for your body and your internal sense of yourself. Regardless, my main issue with your post is that you seem just as committed to the gender roles that those who detract from you cite when they ask about your morality. You ask us what is the proper role for a wife in your situation when you must understand that many women in our forum probably don't agree with any kind of rules or regulations for what a woman should or should not do based on social title (i.e. wife, mother, girlfriend.) If you want to free yourself from the world that judges you based on gender type morality, I suggest you stop calling your husband "your man" and find a magazine that won't portray you as a piece of meat in a spread next to man who makes multiple times your earnings just because he knows to manipulate your presence and other models like you.

Also, you might want to read Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy. You are not as liberated as you think.

"I think it takes a lot of nerve to come on a feminist forum..."

Considering the overwhelming positive response to this post, I'm not sure why you phrased your comment this way. If you disagree with something, it's OK to just say that you personally disagree with something. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that you are implying that all feminists, the majority of feminists, or even just some feminists besides yourself have a problem with this post just because you do.

"You are not as liberated as you think."

The condescension in this sentence makes me think that perhaps you have not rid yourself of a patriarchal mindset as much as you think...

I agree. I'm sure you are coming from a positive place, ikkin, but I think there is room in this world for all stripes of feminism and that if only "true feminists" called themselves the f-word, there wouldn't be that many at all (or any!). I think there is also room for gentle criticism of feminist-identified folks who ask for that criticism, but I would argue that this:

" suggest you stop calling your husband "your man" and find a magazine that won't portray you as a piece of meat in a spread next to man who makes multiple times your earnings just because he knows to manipulate your presence and other models like you.

Also, you might want to read Female Chauvinist Pigs by Ariel Levy. You are not as liberated as you think."

is not all that gentle, and is in fact fairly judgmental. She wasn't asking anyone to criticize her profession, rather she was asking for feminist input on her "role" as a wife. Many commenters have responded (rightly in my view) that she has no prescribed role and should feel free to act in ways that make her feel comfortable and empowered (and my peacenik self always has to add to that "with the stipulation that our actions are not harming others"). You may interpret her modeling as harmful to women in general, but I wonder if making a different post about just that would be a good way to discuss the situation without derailing her original question. Or do folks find that type of behavior passive aggressive? I am always interested in gentle interruptions, as part of my work is anti-violence education, and I have learned how important it is not to alienate the subject of the interruption by insulting or openly judging them.

Anyway, now I'M the one doing the derailing...but I think it's important to make this point because I feel like I've seen that before on this forum.


[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to little :

I don't think any feminist on this blog would disagree that her and her husband have the right to do whatever they want in their relationship. I pointed that out at the beginning of my comment, but how can I just ignore the rest? I suggested the book because it is spot on about issues where our sense of sexual liberation is sometimes not liberation at all.

And I wasn't trying to be gentle.

[0+] Author Profile Page WriterGirl replied to ikkin :

I think that Ikkin does bring up some good points, though not in the most diplomatic manner. I could see why it might seem, to many people, that the original poster's profession (as part of a perpetuation of particular standards of beauty and behavior) might be at odds with a feminist forum.

Personally, I think that the relationship between pin-up photos, lad mags, etc to feminism is quite complicated, which is why I think that "Female Chauvinist Pigs" is an apt recommendation to this discussion.

Again, not I don't think this was delivered in the most "gentle" manner possible, but Ikkin has stated that this wasn't really his or her intent, so I suppose that's a moot point.

[0+] Author Profile Page Chelsa replied to ikkin :

Potential thread derail:

Honestly, after reading female chauvinist pigs several times... I'm not so sure it's such a great book. I mean, I feel like she was going somewhere with the idea and then just lapsed into the same-old "we need to protect women - they don't really understand the implications of what they're doing" trope.

I don't find that book liberating in the least. She's condescending... and shows a huge disconnect with the LGBT community.

I wouldn't go around telling women it'll be their light bulb that will save them from their tangled-up-in-patriarchy, "Uncle Tomming" ways. Just saying.

/end rant

[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to Chelsa :

While the book starts a discussion that no one has managed to finish, I do think that it can really get one started on articulating feelings about modern sexual liberation since it has become so fucked up and complex in such a short period of time. I like to think that Levy's goal was to simply act as a catalyst to our own internal dialogue on raunch culture rather than inform us on how we should act ourselves. At the same time, more of the same doesn't seem like such a good idea, either.

[0+] Author Profile Page sarah replied to little :

But have you ever thought about the fact that it's also sexist to tell a woman that you know whats best for her to do with HER body? Have you thought about the fact that in her profession she is also shamed, in the same way you are doing, while also encouraged at the same time?

[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to sarah :

I didn't tell her what to do with her body. I suggested that she change her mind. I feel very certain that she, in the end, will do as she pleases. Before I said anything I stated:

I think as a human you have the right to do whatever you want to do without having to feel guilty about opinions held by other people regarding your actions.

She has the right and ability to disregard everything I say, as I am sure she will.

However, what no one sees here is that when I addressed her profession in the manner I did, I was addressing her problem and concern about her role as a wife. The negative gender types she propagates today will hurt her tomorrow. What I have learned from feminism, above all else, is that you can’t just fight one thing. You have to fight everything.

[0+] Author Profile Page Siby replied to sarah :

I understand your POV, but I also understand how it may seem a bit "unfeminist" to choose to be in a career that promotes unrealistic ideals for women and influences eating disorders in many women.

I'm not telling her what to do with her body, it's her life, I just think it's an anti-feminist choice.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to little :

Thank you.

[0+] Author Profile Page Interior_League replied to ikkin :

ikkin - umm, yeah already. I had that thought about those mags, but I didn't know how to express it so well.

If anyone is unclear on the content of mags Smooth and King (recently deceased, BTW), do a google image search on "King magazine", or "Smooth magazine". I should probably put some kind of trigger warning up about the cover images...

Michaela - do you think it's possible you are perpetuating anti-feminist ideas by working with those magazines? I'm not accusing, I'm genuinely curious what you think. Like I said above, I'm not terribly articulate or the best one to make the point, but the women in those mags seem to be their for the boobs and butts only. Not exactly what this forum is all about, but also this forum is for women to talk so let me know what you think.

I think mostly what a wife is supposed to do should be between her and her husband. I don't think you're being unfaithful in any way by doing sexy pics. But shit, what is considered unfaithful is really between you and he, too.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to Interior_League :

I did the suggested image search. Yeah, I'm not a fan of those types of magazines.

But I guess I think that there are two issues here: (1) is there something wrong with modeling in those magazines at all? (2) Should modeling in those magazines be affected by the model's relationship status if her partner doesn't have a problem with it?

I guess (1) is debatable but I think the original post was mostly about (2) and I think its clear that the answer to (2) is No.

[0+] Author Profile Page mandoir replied to Pantheon :

I agree. Though (1) may be an easy progression from (2), given that the OP did not ask for opinions related to the matter of (1), but rather for input on (2), shaming the OP for her profession is a derail at best IMO.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to ikkin :

I agree. I find it amusing that she does not want her husband to dictate to her (and rightly so) but finds it perfectly acceptable to work in an occupation which is based around doing what men want you to do. It's completely hypocritical.

[0+] Author Profile Page ScottW said:

I don't think there is any thing a wife should or should not do. Every one should live as they wish and try to find a life-partner with compatible views. People are rarely perfect matches so they need to compromise with each other - give and take, but if it's all give on one side and take on the other then they're not a good match.

Sounds like you've worked things out with your husband and things are good. That's all that matters. If some redneck can't understand that that's his problem. If I were in your shoes I'd be torn between telling them to mind their own business, telling them just how many kinds of wrong they are, or sending them a picture of myself in a burqa with the text "better?".

[0+] Author Profile Page WriterGirl said:

It's because of stuff like this that I think the whole "honesty box" thing inevitably leads to trouble.

Of course, I'm not saying that she DESERVES any moral judgments or finger-wagging. My point is just that things like the Honesty Box are specifically asking for people's candid opinions. In most cases those are not so nice. Add anonymity to that mix and you've got a situation that I think is bound to take a turn toward the uncool.

What should a wife do?

Whatever the hell she wants to do. Just like any other person, male or female.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon said:

There's a girl I knew vaguely in college who is still on my facebook friends list and often posts semi-nude photos of herself. Her page says she's in a relationship with a guy, but I assume that whoever it is is ok with her posting those photos or else they wouldn't be dating. I don't see why I should assume that he is upset by it if he hasn't said so, and I don't see how its any of my business at all.

That said, the honesty box is asking for people to give you their honest opinions when they might otherwise have concluded its none of their business. I would uninstall it and then delete any "friends" who post mean things un-anonymously.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela said:

Okay where to start? I appreciate everyone's support and "Eff em!"s. I love how positive everyone is about this thread. And if I was feeling hurt or unsure about my pictures, after getting all of this support I definitely don't feel it now. But my main point wasn't that I was butthurt about the messages in the sense that people don't like what I'm doing. The thing that bothered me the most is that somehow it's not okay for a woman to be sexy once she's married and that in some way a husband now determines how sexy she can get. Nevermind that our bodies belonged to us before the significant others, but now that we are married, somehow we have to curtail to our husband's opinions about our sexuality.

Maybe I'm being a bit extreme in my thought process, but at the root of a lot of the messages I receive this seemed to be the common theme. Also, I have a question, and I'm playing devil's advocate with this, what if my husband didn't approve of the pictures and I continued to take them? A lot of you have mentioned that the images are not offensive or demeaning, so as a wife would I be wrong to keep taking sexy pics? It makes me happy, but should I stop because my husband doesn't approve? I wanted to find out what you guys thought about that.

Also to touch on the Smooth, King, and urban model image. Yes, I'm aware that all we show is our bodies.But I do get tired of other women passing judgement on something that they don't do and no nothing about. I know that many people think that all of us urban models are idiots, or that we are being controlled by black patriachy. True of the matter is everyone is aware at what is going on. We know that we are being exploited. The trick is to control the amount of exploitation by setting up your own website, copyrighting your images, being very picky about what you will and will not shoot, selling your own calendars and posters and making a profit off of the men who ogle you.

Contrary to belief, we are not all hoes and stupid. The women that I have encountered are college educated, wordly, mothers, doctoral students, married,single, CEO's, highly intelligent,and/or shrewd businesswomen. I hate that women take one look at what we do and pass judgement. Because I pose in a bikini, does that make me any less of a feminist? I'm aware of the history, especially being a black woman, Venus Hottentot is always in the back of my head.

Sigh. There's so much more I want to say, but that's a whole other post.
__________________

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Michaela :

Sorry for all of the grammar errors in my last post. I was rushing to type everything and I didn't want to leave out the important stuff. I'm a bit of a grammar nazi. Also, if anyone wants to view my pictures and come to their own conclusions you can go to my model mayhem page: www.modelmayhem.com/mikelan. I welcome the feedback.

[0+] Author Profile Page Interior_League replied to Michaela :

I checked out the pics. Is it inappropriate for me to say "hubba hubba!" in this forum?

Srsly, very nice pics. I like the one in the pool.

[0+] Author Profile Page Interior_League replied to Michaela :

Wow, thanks for that frank reply.

"Because I pose in a bikini, does that make me any less of a feminist?"

Honestly, I don't know. Full disclosure, I'm a man so I'm kind of hesitant to call any woman unfeminist because of her actions, it's not really for me to say. It's a fascinating topic, and you're right it's a whole other post, but hey, you are wearing the bikini and you're a feminist, maybe you should write a post about it.

"what if my husband didn't approve of the pictures and I continued to take them"

I guess that again is between you and your husband and it's like any other problem in a marriage. What if my wife wanted me to stop doing a job I was qualified for, paid well, and that I did before we were married? If it really bugged her I'd consider stopping, because these are the things we do for people we love. But people who love us shouldn't stop us from doing what we like, too. And what I wouldn't like about your described scenario is what you've already alluded too, it seems to be about owning and controlling your sexuality rather than enjoying and sharing it with you.

But heck, this all comes down to what works between you two. Some people have open marriages and sleep with other people and it's understood, and it works (so I'm told...I don't get it). Some people are monogamous, and that works for them. I think the problems come when one partner wants or needs something and the other person has to control it out of fear of being hurt.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to Michaela :

I'm also surprised that you keep mentioning posing in a bikini like its a big deal. I'm guessing you were posing in a bikini in an especially provocative way, otherwise I don't see why its even an issue. Maybe its just because I grew up near a beach but I'm guessing 90% of the women I know have a couple photos of themselves in a bikini posted on facebook.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Pantheon :

Yes, it's kind of provacative. Not in the playboy kind of way, but definitely not in an editorial catalog kind of way either. It's more on par with being very sexual.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to Michaela :

Ok, fair enough. When I hear bikini I think of bathing suits and beaches, but I guess you could use the word bikini to describe any garment cut in that fashion, and it does seem more provocative depending on the pose and the context.

[0+] Author Profile Page Qi replied to Michaela :

should I stop because my husband doesn't approve?

That is up to you, isn't it? There is no right or wrong answer, unfortunately, except the answer you give yourself. You have to weigh how much you care about your husband's opinions and how strongly your husband feels about it against how strongly you want to continue modelling. Clearly, from the standpoint of a relationship, it is better to be respectful of your partner's feelings, but as a whole it is still an individual choice that must be decided by your priorities.

Marriage in a committed relationship does usually imply some sort of exclusivity of course, and greater restriction of sexual activity. So it would not be abnormal if your husband did feel jealous. For example, you would never want to cheat on your husband or your husband cheat on you (although that case involves dishonesty).

But you and your husband have the ability to talk about what you expect from each other and define whatever boundaries you want. It sounds like this is exactly what you have done...

[0+] Author Profile Page WriterGirl replied to Michaela :

"We know that we are being exploited. The trick is to control the amount of exploitation by setting up your own website, copyrighting your images, being very picky about what you will and will not shoot, selling your own calendars and posters and making a profit off of the men who ogle you."


First of all, count me among the people in the "eff 'em" category who thinks you should be able to do whatever the heck you want with your body, so long as nobody's getting hurt.

But, seriously? Are you ACTUALLY saying that you are knowingly being exploited, and yet you are somehow being exploited LESS by perpetuating these damaging stereotypes?

It's as if you're saying, "I'm being exploited, but I'm being exploited less because, now, I'm exploiting myself!"

I'm sorry, but... *facepalm*

Believe me when I say that I wouldn't think for a moment that you are a "hoe" or "stupid." But statements like the one above are seriously misguided. You say that "the trick is to control the amount of exploitation..." Well, I call, "shenanigans" on that. I don't think it's possible to "control" them amount of exploitation you are under" by "making a profit off of the men who ogle you." I think that it's just more exploitation, with the illusion of empowerment.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to WriterGirl :

Okay I definitely understand where you are coming, b/c no matter how many different ways I flip it, exploitation is still exploitation. I think that I just hate the idea of people making false assumptions about what I do so much that I try to make it look like less demeaning/exploitive than what it really is. I imagine this is why some strippers feel like they have to hide what they do for fear of of judgement by society. But, at the end of the day there's no pleasing everyone you know? So I should probably state this simply. I enjoy modeling. Yes, I know that posing in men's magazines is a form of exploitation.And yes, I know all about the implications and the history behind it. However, I enjoy it, it makes me happy, and I get paid well for it. Weirdly I've had to make this argument before to someone about why, as a feminist I would choose such an antiquated institution as marriage knowing the early history and the repression that it caused women.

[0+] Author Profile Page WriterGirl replied to Michaela :

Fair enough. I appreciate your reply and I do think it's been beneficial (at least to me) to explore your situation.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to WriterGirl :

Thank you, I also appreciate your perspective as well.

[0+] Author Profile Page Liz B. replied to Michaela :

Its been years since I read it last, but Simone de Beauvoir touched on this idea in The Second Sex. Its a hefty read and I couldn't tell you exactly where it is, but I really recommend this book. This book really opened my eyes (my freshmen year Women studies course)

Highly recommend.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tenya replied to Michaela :

I think the topic of whether you should continue taking said pictures if your husband disapproved is entirely up to you - I would think that if my boyfriend requested that I stop naked modeling awhile ago due to, I dunno, "not wanting other people to see what is mine" I'd wonder if someone had done a sneak lobotomy and not stop. If it was, however, making me unhappy and he pointed out that the missing income would not be upsetting and thought I should to preserve my sanity, that would not upset me at all. As I said, it would all depend on you. I think you have a right to make your own choices about how happy a particular activity makes you and how to want that to play out in your private life, without people going on about the proper role of a wife.

However, as someone who HAS been in a similar business (ie, sexy woman for other people's fantasies/appeal) and does know that plenty of us are college educated and intelligent, it does not jive too well with a feminist perspective of not being exploited for your body AT ALL. Only a little exploitation is only less bad, not great. I know that skipped meals and didn't eat certain things in order to achieve maximal appeal/profit with my body, and that was not the end all of things that weren't a great idea. I even considered breast implants at one point. Would this have been okay for me as an individual? Sure, I have the right to make my own choices. Was this a very feminist thing to do? I don't think so at all, it seems incredibly myopic to be like "as long as I'm making money, don't care about other women!" I would not go so far as to say that all "sexy sales" (by which I include stripping to modeling to porn, etc.) is evil and un-feminist, but I know that I left unexamined some feminist ideals like "Being sexy =/= tiny waist but big boobs, perfect light tan, extra long legs from wearing heels," "Intelligence is just as sexy as pretty features" etc. in order to make ends meet.

[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to Michaela :

I know that many people think that all of us urban models are idiots, or that we are being controlled by black patriarchy. True of the matter is everyone is aware at what is going on. We know that we are being exploited. The trick is to control the amount of exploitation by setting up your own website, copyrighting your images...

I don't mean to step on your toes here, but wouldn't the best way to control the amount of exploitation be to not participate at all? It is clear that you are a very intelligent woman and there are better ways to make a living -- there are ways to make a living where you can help other people instead of hurting other women.

Again, with all sincerity, I encourage you to do some light reading on women, raunch culture, and the possibility that today's notions of sexual liberation are not all that liberating.

[0+] Author Profile Page Ruby replied to ikkin :

My mom and I have often had discussions about the differences between the feminists of her generation back in the 60s and 70s and my generation of feminists today. One of the things we've talked about before is how, when my mom was my age, women regarded objects such as the high-heeled shoe as a symbol of oppression--as the pain and suffering inflicted on women by society's expectations of beauty and etc. But today, we see a lot of feminists have reappropriated the high-heeled shoe to be a symbol of empowerment. A symbol of the fact that a woman can be glamorous, beautiful, and sexy and STILL be taken seriously. So the point is, I believe in the power of reappropriation. I believe that a woman can pose in lingerie or a swimsuit, or even naked, posed provocatively and all glammed up, and STILL be an intelligent, driven, career-oriented woman. I can still celebrate my body, which I take pride in and work hard on, without compromising my integrity or my feminist values.

HOWEVER, as I stated in an earlier post, I don't think that a men's magazine like Maxim, Smooth, or King is a medium through which you can achieve that.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Ruby :

I respect your comment and I can definitely see how men's magazines don't exactly preach empowerment being that they are geared towards the fantasy of men. I mean for me I just find the balance between art and commerce. I thoroughly enjoy taking the pictures for the magazines,I wouldn't do it if I hated it, but it's also business for me as well. And then on the flip side, on my down time I work with my favorite photographers on different projects so that I can still keep in touch with the commercial and editorial side of modeling, not just glamour.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to ikkin :

What makes you think I already haven't been reading about women's studies and raunch culture? So because I take sexual pictures all of the sudden I've never picked up a book about women? Seriously. That's condescending as hell. I guess to you that fact that I pose for men's magazines makes me incapable of educating myself about women's history. Unbelievable.

I just assumed that if you were educated on the evils of what you were doing that you wouldn't do them. I suppose that was me thinking more of you then than I do now.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to ikkin :

I can be educated and still separate the two. Why is that so hard for you to understand? To me modeling is fun and also business. I understand the history, have acknowledged it, but it makes me happy and I'm not giving that up. It's that simple. You know, when can just agree to disagree. I'm pretty sure in your life you done things where you have been exploited or you are contributing to the struggles of women, but you don;t see me saying I think less of you, or that you are unworthy of being a feminist, b/c you are human and you are not going to be politically correct with every step you make in life. To me that is narrowing the idea of what a feminist should and shouldn't be.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tracey T replied to ikkin :

Wow, someone has decided to act the part of a condescending, pretentious, paternal ass. I am aware that working almost anymore contributes to the exploitation of the working class and benefits only corporations, but get me a job at McDonald's or Wal-Mart, and I'm there.
"If someone is educated they'll think and act the way I do. No one's life partner should be able to tell them what to do with their body but someone on an online forum who has no idea of the passion for modeling they hold or the reality of their lives should be able to question their feminist identity and imply that they have not been introduced or introduced themselves to feminst thinking b/c I don't agree with what they do. " Real intelligent there, real intelligent.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tracey T replied to ikkin :

pretentious, condescending, and paternalistic you are. So, someone does something you don't agree with and you assme they aren't as educated on feminist thoght as you are. It's wrong for a someone to tell someone else what to do with their body, but apparently it is perfectly fine to attack someone as not feminist because their views and actions don't reflect yours.

[0+] Author Profile Page Siby replied to Michaela :

I don't think anyone was suggesting that you're all "hoes and stupid", I certainly don't think so. But why do you choose to participate in a career that exploits women? It's not just yourselves that you're exploiting, it's the entire female gender. Why contribute to these unrealistic beauty standards? Why contribute to our eating disorder problems?

I'm not trying to bash you at all, and like I said earlier, it's 100% your choice. I just want to know how you could call yourself a feminist and support this type of thing.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Siby :

I'm sorry, I wasn't referring to the commentators on this site when I made the hoes and stupid comment. I should have clarified that. I meant the overall opinion from others in the industry.

My question is, I don't think I'm the one contributing the eating disorder problem, (in this case in the urban industry, i';s more the you don't have enough ass so get implants problem.), I think it's editors and others who are choosing to my body and other's women's bodies as the standard. I understand that I'm not contributing to by being apart of this industry but this is something that makes me happy. It's not about making men feel good, I enjoy being photographed. I'm a very sexually confident woman and I have no shame in posing provocatively. Also, besides my regular 9-5, this is also another way for me to contribute to my household financially. My honest question is, would you question a stripper the same way you question me? It seems like there's more sympathy there for strippers, so in some ways their deemed untouchable but glamour models get a lot of the criticism, mainly because our lifestyle seems more like a choice than someone who decides to strip for a living.

I don't understand how this one small portion of my life is what makes me an outcast to the feminist community. As women we have fought for the right to be interpreted and to take whatever role we like, and we have fought to define ourselves, not society. I have stated that I am happy and confident, but for some reason other women feel like I'm not feminist enough for them b/c I partake in something that is patriarchal and can be deemed exploitive, which as I mentioned earlier is also something that I enjoy.

Sigh. I'm sorry I'm not trying to lash out at you. I'm just very frustrated about how this one part of me makes me have a scarlet A on my chest to others in regards to feminism.

[0+] Author Profile Page Siby replied to Michaela :

As a recovering anorexic, I've been to MANY pro-anorexia and pro-bulimia websites. I've had/have a lot of friends who are and were anorexic or bulimic. This is why I can say, with confidence, that the modeling industry does promote eating disorders. It doesn't cause the eating disorder, but many of us use these models as "thinspiration". On pro-ana websites, they tell us to put up a poster of our favorite model to motivate us to starve. With that being said, the models on that magazine are "curvy" compared to skinnier models, but most of them are still a mirror of that unrealistic body image that society things women need to have, the image that some women base their worth off of. That's why I think that models contribute to our eating disorder culture. You can blame it on the people who choose the beauty standard, but you're participating in it, it's your choice.

It's great that you're happy. It's also wonderful that you're confident (confidence is so rare in women nowadays). The only reason I'm even questioning your feminism is because I believe you're contributing to a misogynistic culture. I believe that you aren't only degrading yourself, but women in general. If you were only exploiting yourself, then I would shrug it off, it wouldn't matter to me, especially since it makes you happy. But you're exploiting the entire female gender, not just yourself. You're doing something that negatively effects ALL of us. That's why I'm questioning you. I would probably question a stripper this way as well, but probably not as much because they aren't exposed to the general public/the media. Our young girls aren't learning what "beautiful" is from the strippers, and anorexic girls aren't looking at strippers for their thinspiration. They're looking at MODELS.

It's your right, and your choice. I'm not trying to shame you for "adultery", I'm not into slut-shaming. Models are humans just as everyone else. However, I don't consider them feminists. It's not because modeling is patriarchal, it's because models choose to do something that I strongly believe hurts women.

I hope that clears up a few things. It has nothing to do with adultery, slut shaming, whatever. It only has to do with the negative effect that your career has on women. Do whatever makes you happy, I just don't see how you can consider yourself a feminist if you choose to hurt women.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Siby :

Thank you for clariying and for being respectful in your response. You make a very compelling argument. I have mentioned before that I do know the effects of what I do, however I still choose to partake in taking the pictures because at the end of day I enjoy it.B/c yes, even though I'm not an editor I am very aware of the unrealistic standards that are put upon women b/c of my or other model's bodies. So I clearly see why you feel like I'm not helping the cause either, especially since I'm well versed about how my profession is loaded with sexism. It's almost like "Well, dude, if you know that it's potentially harmful..why the hell do it?" I understand your concern and your post is very thought provoking. Thank you again for being respectful.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Siby :

I'm sorry, I wasn't referring to the commentators on this site when I made the hoes and stupid comment. I should have clarified that. I meant the overall opinion from others in the industry.

I don't think I'm solely the person creating the eating disorder problem, (in this case in the urban industry, it's more the "you don't have enough ass so get implants" problem.), I think it's editors and others who are choosing my body and other's women's bodies as the standard.However I understand that I am not helping contributing to by being apart of this industry but this is something that makes me happy. It's not about making men feel good, I enjoy being photographed. I'm a very sexually confident woman and I have no shame in posing provocatively. Also, besides my regular 9-5, this is also another way for me to contribute to my household financially. My honest question is, would you question a stripper the same way you question me? It seems like there's more sympathy there for strippers, so in some ways their deemed untouchable but glamour models get a lot of the criticism, mainly because our lifestyle seems more like a choice than someone who decides to strip for a living.

I don't understand how this one small portion of my life is what makes me an outcast to the feminist community. As women we have fought for the right to be interpreted and to take whatever role we like, and we have fought to define ourselves, not society. I have stated that I am happy and confident, but for some reason other women feel like I'm not feminist enough for them b/c I partake in something that is patriarchal and can be deemed exploitive, which as I mentioned earlier is also something that I enjoy.

Sigh. I'm sorry I'm not trying to lash out at you. I'm just very frustrated about how this one part of me makes me have a scarlet "A" on my chest to others in regards to feminism.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Siby :

I'm sorry, I wasn't referring to the commentators on this site when I made the hoes and stupid comment. I should have clarified that. I meant the overall opinion from others in the industry.

I don't think I'm solely the person creating the eating disorder problem, (in this case in the urban industry, it's more the "you don't have enough ass so get implants" problem.), I think it's editors and others who are choosing my body and other's women's bodies as the standard.However I understand that I am not helping contributing to by being apart of this industry but this is something that makes me happy. It's not about making men feel good, I enjoy being photographed. I'm a very sexually confident woman and I have no shame in posing provocatively. Also, besides my regular 9-5, this is also another way for me to contribute to my household financially. My honest question is, would you question a stripper the same way you question me? It seems like there's more sympathy there for strippers, so in some ways their deemed untouchable but glamour models get a lot of the criticism, mainly because our lifestyle seems more like a choice than someone who decides to strip for a living.

I don't understand how this one small portion of my life is what makes me an outcast to the feminist community. As women we have fought for the right to be interpreted and to take whatever role we like, and we have fought to define ourselves, not society. I have stated that I am happy and confident, but for some reason other women feel like I'm not feminist enough for them b/c I partake in something that is patriarchal and can be deemed exploitive, which as I mentioned earlier is also something that I enjoy.

Sigh. I'm sorry I'm not trying to lash out at you. I'm just very frustrated about how this one part of me makes me have a scarlet "A" on my chest to others in regards to feminism.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Michaela :

uggh, sorry for the triple post.

[0+] Author Profile Page Liz B. replied to Michaela :

I certainly have no desire to make you feel like an outcast or make you feel judged. I think the biggest problem here is that you genuinely enjoy doing this, and, in your mind, it does have absolutely everything to do with you. The problem is the world we live in is so oriented to male gaze that no matter how many times you say "I love doing this for me" you are still existing in an environment that holds you (or any model) up and says "Here you go, girls, this is what you have to be to be valuable, unless you are a wife or mother or X or Y; or whatever other ridiculous standards you want to talk about. Our society doesn't see you doing this for you, they see you as contributing to a detrimental objectification of women.

And I think that this problem is certainly something feminism is seeking to remedy. Women everywhere should be allowed to pursue their desires, profession, sexual, whatever, without having to be viewed through a patriarchal lens.

I really feel for you, because I can see your dilemma with yourself. And I really appreciate that your concerned with feminism, because the more allies the better. I think a lot of people here, myself included, who see the media not only objectifying women involved in it, but also damaging the minds of young girls, just want you to be aware that while we applaud your sexuality and openness, that its not occurring in a vacuum. There is a media structure and body ideal that is hurting us as a gender, and that maybe you've internalized that as well. Your concern with keeping your body "tight" and the male desire for thinness is not a natural desire that we are born with, but rather one socially constructed by years of exposure to this kind of media.

P.s. sorry for errors, I just wrote it and did a quick edit

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Liz B. :

I completely respect your comment and I understand the place you are coming from. But my honest question is this, why is that you think that me taking pictures has everything to with history and b/c of what society has told me is sexy? Why is that I can't think independently from society and enjoy taking sexy pictures b/c I enjoy them. Why is that so hard for anyone to understand. Believe I'm well educated about the repressive history on men's magazines and the like. I'm fully aware of the exploitation. But I enjoy it. During the day I'm a small business owner, a designer, a military wife,a friend, and a mentor. But I'm very sexual and I enjoy modeling so that's another facet of me that I like to explore as well. Again I understand why there is concern here. But I don't like the fact that people are telling me I have issues when I'm a perfectly healthy confident woman who can look in the mirror and absolutely love what I see and who I have become as a woman. me

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Michaela :

If someone was that intelligent then they would get a job using their brain, not their body.

Can't you see how hypocritical it is to say that you're a feminist but then do exactly what it is which is keeping women subordinated? As another WOC don't you feel like it would be the equivalent of you trying to join the KKK? Why perpetuate the exact thing you should want to stop?

Just because I'm good at math doesn't mean I want to be a mathematician. I'm sure there are lots of very intelligent people who decided on a career in dance or sports rather than a career in business or medicine or law, and you don't look down at them because their job is more about their body than their brain.

Sexy pictures aren't keeping women subordinated. The idea that a sexualized woman is somehow unworthy of respect has a lot more to do with it.

Also, re: "anyone can do it"
http://renegadeevolution.blogspot.com/2008/05/please-anyone-can-do-what-you-do.html

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to nattles_thing :

Ugh, I've read her blog before and think her arguments are worthless.

That's also a bad analogy. Being an athlete involves talent and hardwork. Being a "model" only involves fitting to a misogynistic stereotype - there's absolutely no work or talent involved.

If you can make a decent income doing something that easy, why shouldn't you? It's stupid to make a value-judgement of someone based on how "easy" you think their job is.

I don't know much about the kind of modeling the OP does -- fashion modeling can be fairly grueling -- but from what I've heard most sex work isn't nearly as easy as it looks.

[0+] Author Profile Page Siby replied to nattles_thing :

"If you can make a decent income doing something that easy, why shouldn't you?"

Because it's a career that hurts women? Most people don't really care about that, just a suggestion though..

Whether it actually does hurt women is up for debate. Regardless, it's still stupid to judge someone for having a job you consider "easy."

Great -- let's all applaud taking the easy way out for those who have the luxury to do so. I wish I could, but I'm a fat cunt who has to do paperwork for a living.

[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to ikkin :

BTW, before I am set on fire, I'm not saying that what Michaela does as a model or for a living is easy. I'm making a snarky comment about nattles_thing's reasoning.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to ikkin :

What makes you think I took the easy way out? Because I model? That's a small portion of the things I'm involved in. I'm also a small business owner and a fashion designer and a student. So now that you know this, does that validate me any more? B/c I have what is considered a "legitimate" respectful job in your eyes? Modeling isn't easy. You have castings, auditions, your schedule is hectic, and the work is tiring. But I love it, and I don't think I should be excommunicated b/c of it.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tracey T replied to ikkin :

Wait. you have a job and are complaining about someone else's priveledge? I hardly think sex work is easy, and I don't have a body desirable for modeling/stripping, nor am I able to get a job doing paperwork in a crappy economy and with no experiance. Some people talk a lot of shit about other lines of work (totally disregarding the fact she like what she's doing), but where the hell are they? You sound like some bullshit peddling, up by the bootstraps mentality having, work hard and you'll succeed, if you're unemployed it's your fault believing libertarian. WHich I'm sure you are based on these comments.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tracey T replied to becstar :

Wow. It's that easy to get a job. Really? I finished with a Bachelor's in Poli Sci, my first job out of college was working part time as a janitor. I'm in school again and would love that job back. I've had no sucess getting another job, and that includes applying at gas stations and fast food. She has found a way to get mone doing something she wants, and why judge her especiall knowing damn well what the job market is like. What do you suggest to glamour models who are doing it to make a living? Stripping? Even if you're not on meds and have high enough iron, plasma will only go so far.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Tracey T :

There are jobs if you are willing to think outside the box and work hard. The problem is for a lot of people (excluding the working poor) is that they don't think about working while still at high school and uni. I have been working since I was old enough to do so and I have never had any trouble finding work because of my experience.

[0+] Author Profile Page saresails replied to becstar :

I found this to be terribly insulting. Everyone has their own personal circumstances, their own desires, and their own lives that may affect their ability to gain or retain employment.

I'm glad you have had luck in the job market, but I'd kindly ask you to not belittle people who do struggle to get a job, especially if they have pre-existing medical conditions, kids, etc.

Wow. Way to other and belittle. And this is from a gainfully employed person who has been working since I was 14. Have some empathy.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to saresails :

If people have to resort to going into sex work because they cannot get any other job (which I am aware happens) then I have nothing but sympathy for that. That, however, is a problem with society. I think it is a different problem to women who do have the ability to get another job but want the easy way out and then claim its "empowering" to play into every misogynisitc stereotype there is.

[0+] Author Profile Page Qi said:

It sounds like these people who are sending messages are in complete ignorance of your relationship, your husband's feelings, and the reasons why you model. Therefore they are assuming how your husband feels and projecting how they would feel if they were in the husband's situation. It just another form of stereotyping. If you and your husband have a healthy relationship, that is all that matters.

[0+] Author Profile Page Honeybee said:

Thanks for posting Michaela! I understand what you are getting at and I think you are right to assert yourself.

I think it's a tough question regarding whether you should still do it if he didn't approve. I think it depends on the reasons he gives and how strongly he feels and whether or not there are things he does that you don't approve of.

In such a situation I'd recommend talking with him and letting him know how you feel, etc. If he persisted I'd have to decide how important it was for me to continue. If it was very important, then I would do it anyways, if it wasn't that important, I would respect my spouse's wishes. That's what I think after not alot of thought!

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Honeybee :

Very good advice. That's not my current situation,but I was curious to see what people thought about it. I was more so digging deeper into the idea that once you are married, what you do sexually, is somewhat determined by your husband. I don't necessarily agree with that notion, but it seems like that is a very common opinion based upon the messages that I received in my honesty box.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to Michaela :

I think that if you were, say, a software analyst who always dressed conservatively, and then you got married, and then you announced that you wanted to become a semi-nude model who does sexy poses, your husband would have a right to be unhappy about that. Its not about him owning your sexuality, its about you both being comfortable with your level of privacy and stuff, and if you spring a sudden change on someone they don't necessarily have to like it. I certainly wouldn't like it if my boyfriend suddenly, after several years of doing nothing like that, decided that he wanted to pose for photos in a speedo and publish them online.

But if its something you already did before you got married, and he was fine with it then, then I don't really see what getting married has to do with anything.

Its important for both people in a relationship to respect each other's boundaries and work out compromises and everything. But there's no reason that being married should all of a sudden change that one way or the other.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Pantheon :

I completely agree with you. I had dabbed in modeling prior to being married, but I didn't persue it all the way until after I got married. But nevertheless, the hubby was completely okay with it b/c he knows that our marriage and my modeling are two different worlds. He knows that I love modeling, he supports me in it. But when I come home from a shoot,or my regular job, I'm his wife and we're in our own private world. It's almost like being Clark Kent and Superman lol .Before I do any shoot or approve for pictures to be published, I always let him get the first look to see what his opinion is about the images/or concept of the job. I trust my husband's judgement and if something makes him uncomfortable then we'll either discuss the issues he may have with it right then and there, or I won't do it. At this point however in modeling, I pick and choose what types of jobs I want to take, and if it's worth the time away from my husband and from my small business.

[0+] Author Profile Page Ruby replied to Michaela :

Hey Michaela, I just wanted to say a few things and answer a few of your questions.
When you asked (hypothetically) about what you should do if your husband didn't like you modeling, I tried to think about myself in that position. I feel like my boyfriend probably wouldn't mind. He has more of the attitude of, "it's fine if other guys look, because I know you're coming home with me" kind of thing. So I really think he'd be cool with it. But if he wasn't, I also think I could understand where he was coming from. And like an earlier poster said, it wouldn't have anything to do with owning m sexuality, it would just be about wanting to keep our intimacy just for us, without sharing it with the world, so it stays more special, you know what I mean? But then again, I don't know if I would quit doing something I loved because he disapproved. I love him more than life, but I've never been in that situation so I can't say. And I don't think that making sacrifices for someone you love is anti-feminist or something. But anyways, moving on...

Some people on this thread have obviously decided to attack you for your choices. You don't have to defend your choices to anyone, just so you know. I applaud you for having the confidence to be sexy--so many women are afraid to be sexy because they're afraid of fueling the patriarchy. I also applaud you for taking good care of your body, and showing it off. I think being healthy, fit, and taking good care of yourself sets a good example for younger people. And that brings me to a comment that was made (I think by ikkin, but I'm not sure) about how you should not be allowed to mentor young girls because of your modeling. That really got to me. I remember reading an article not that long ago about a woman who was fired from her job as a cheerleading coach because it was discovered that she had posed for playboy. It seemed so unfair to me at the time. If someone wants to reach out to our young people and try and make a difference in their lives, why would you want to interfere with that? Do you really think Michaela is an unfit mentor because she's taken sexy pictures? I don't get it.

So anyways, Michaela...I said earlier that I think showing off your body can be a form of empowerment, but that it's hard to achieve that in Men's magazines. But your decisions are your own, obviously, and I think you have guts to do what you do. And I don't think that you're causing harm to women all over the globe, as some of the drama queens on here put it.

The reality of the situation is that how we choose to present our bodies is loaded with implications. I'm not the type of feminist who revokes someone's "good feminist" card if they wear heels, makeup, strip for a living, model, or what-have-you - or if they choose to dress modestly, work as a homemaker, etc.

But our choices are loaded with implications, whether we want them to be or not. If you dress your baby daughter in pink and your baby son in blue, I'm not going to send you to feminist exile. But that's a politically and culturally loaded decision - even if pink just coincidentally complements your daughter's skin tone and blue just happens to match your son's eyes, what we do can take all kinds of insidious meanings in the world, and that's one of the most frustrating parts of being a woman and a feminist.

Am I implying that women shouldn't take sexy pictures of themselves? No. Absolutely not. My only concern is that sometimes, in these conversations, I see sexuality reduced to "the visibility of my unclothed body", I see empowerment reduced to "feeling proud, flattered, or attractive through adherence to dominant standards of sexiness, beauty, and femininity" and I see the conflicted, labyrinthine world of choice in a patriarchal environment reduced to "It's feminist because it was something she chose".

Now, I want to note that the visibility of one's body can be part of one's sexuality, feeling proud and attractive can be part of one's empowerment, and sometimes a woman making a choice is inherently feminist. Given the context, taking your clothes off can just be powerful as choosing to wear a hijab.

However, sometimes, as women, resisting one patriarchal box (the idea that married women should dress modestly) means inadvertently fitting into another (the idea that women should have and display bodies that are appealing to men).

So all of this said, I do think there are negative implications to posing in a sexy men's magazine. To sum those up, here's a quote from Twisty:

I allude to the confident, photogenic, entirely fictitious female who inhabits TV ads, “Sex in the City,” Oprah, and the popular imagination. Today’s woman isn’t a feminist. She doesn’t need to be, because she’s empowered.

She may only earn 3/4 of what a man earns, but she damn well has the empower to look sexy doing it in her cheapcrap push-up bra from Victoria’s Secret. She has the empower to demand pink products from manufacturers. She has the empower to cry out ‘I did it for me!’ when she gets her boob job; maybe she even has the empower to believe it. The empowerful woman is saucy, yet feminine. Clever, yet feminine. In her early thirties, yet feminine. Heterosexual, yet feminine. Stays in shape eating Lean Cuisine and sweating blue Gatorade while kickboxing in slow motion, yet feminine. Yes, the empowerful woman is many things. Too bad powerful isn’t one of them. That’s because feminine is all of them. It’s no accident that the empowerful woman has stepped into the void left by the absence of any actual, fully-realized women. She was invented for precisely that purpose by the global corporatocracy, without whose tireless sponsorship of consumer feminine consciousness real-life women might have no clue how ugly and unfeminine they are. Femininity -- that set of self-absorbed, self-defeating behaviors required of women by the dominant culture to ensure a ready-steady supply of submissive sexbot availability -- is central to the empowerful woman narrative. Because there was never so hideous an abomination as a woman who can’t prove, through word, deed, and sportcorset, that she has successfully internalized the patriarchal message and is conversant in fulfilling male fantasy. So on one hand, we find someone who's experience of empowerment happens to work within dominant conceptualizations of beauty, femininity, and sexiness. And we know that there are some real issues surrounding beauty, femininity, and sexiness in our society (yes, even though there is nothing inherently bad about those constructs).

On the other hand, we have someone who feels that her body is supposed to be covered in a sweater-set once she has a ring on her finger, who derives pride and pleasure from modeling, and who thus made a conscious and willing decision to do something that is both enjoyable to her and strongly resistant to certain hegemonic expectations.

The temptation here is to try to do the math and figure out whether her choice is good, bad, or breaking even. But numbers do not apply to this situation. They never do. I don't think we can say it's wrong. But I do think we can say it's difficult. It's a choice that can be easy to make, just as it was easy for me to choose to work as an escort for awhile to bring in extra money, but it's also a choice that can be difficult for other women, other feminists, feminism in general, society in general. It's a difficult, complicated thing.

So in conclusion, I'm not really coming to any conclusions. When I read a post like Mrs. Stephens', I get this conflicted feeling in my gut, and that's all I want to do justice to - those of us for whom such choices aren't a clearcut wrong, right, feminist, patriarchal, but difficult.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to ghostorchid :

This. I completely utterly understand what you mean and I appreciate what you wrote. It isn't an easy decision to make. I know that what I'm doing is exploitation, and has its roots in a very sexist, repressive place. However, I'm not going to go as far as saying that I don't care, b/c I'm fully aware of what I do, and I'm fully aware of the fact that I'm posing in a sexual way intended to turn on men. I can see why women, based upon that history would look at me and think that I'm taking the women's movement back 30 years. But, I don't think that a feminist should be categorized. I think that is essentially what bothers and conflicts me at the same time, b/c yes, how can I call myself a full fledged feminist but I am knowingly being exploited by the patriarchy? I can see why that is a valid argument. To me it's simple. It's entertainment. I'm not doing for the men that look at the pictures, or for the men that run these magazines. (Actually Smooth magazine is run by a woman.) I do it because I enjoy being sexy and being photographed and I don't think my feminist card should be revoked because of that. I think in some ways a majority of people have done things that could be looked as a less than feminist, but why isn't that me posing half naked
in a men's magazine the worse thing I could do?

Again, I understand and respect where you are coming from and I can see why my choice can make you a bit uncomfortable.

Best answer in the whole thread.

this was awesome.

I love you for saying what I wanted to say, but couldn't without sounding like a stuck-up, angry librarian (not feminine at all, I'm afraid.)

[0+] Author Profile Page Liz B. replied to ghostorchid :

This is what I meant. should have read all the comments first. Awesome!

[0+] Author Profile Page taalibba said:

I think its a shame that people are asserting themselves into your personal life like this, presuming to tell you what your marriage looks like from the inside, or what your husband thinks about your job, or why you do the work you do.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to taalibba :

I kind of agree with you. For some of the people who have responded I think that they are genuinely concerned about how my role in feeding the patriarchy machine and I can completely understand their side of it as well. I agree with them actually. I think it's when I'm being disrespected or told I took the easy way out, or I'm not a feminist is when I have a problem.

[0+] Author Profile Page Ruby said:

Smooth and King seem about on par with Maxim, which is a super-lame, chauvinist publication. The thing is, is that I like the pictures in magazines like Maxim, like the ones taken for the Hot 100 issue. I'm a heterosexual female in a committed relationship with a man, but I like looking at glamorous pictures of attractive women. I also take pride in my body--I work out and eat right, and not because I'm trying to please anyone else or live up to some standard, but because I like the way I feel--I feel confident, sexy, and healthy. And pictures of fit, healthy women posing in bikinis sometimes offers me that extra inspiration to go work out or resist the temptation of a big, juicy burger.

But anyways, my point is that it's not so much the pictures that are problematic, but the message behind them, which is judging the value of a woman based on her appearance, which is clearly the point of things like the "Hot 100" and the fact that Maxim also feels the need to devalue women like Sarah Jessica Parker and Tina Fey for not being attractive enough to fit their standards. Which, by the way, I think is so weird because I think Tina Fey is like, super hot, not mention super funny, which only adds to the hotness.

In conclusion, I think it's totally possible to pose in sexy outfits and take glamorous pictures in a way that is empowering and celebrating the beauty of your body and of the female form in general. But I think posing for magazines like Maxim (and I keep using Maxim as an example because, admittedly, I'm not all that familiar with either Smooth or King) does not really accomplish this.

[0+] Author Profile Page zp27 said:

You're a autonomous person first, and a wife second. While taking your partner's wishes and feelings into account is important, your partner should do the same for you. The best thing is when you can be with someone whose ethics, principles, and general way of thinking with life jive with your own to a great extent, and problems like this don't even arise. Or if they do, they can be resolved because of mutual love and respect. You seem to have no problems with your husband, so really don't worry about the idiots writing in your honesty box-you asked for comments, and you got a few stupid ones. Doesn't make what you're doing morally wrong. Whatever you do, however you do it, you will make someone on the internet pissed off, so it's not worth stressing over if you're being honest to who you are.
I shouldn't even weigh in on this "exploitation" argument, because everyone seems to have said everything that needs to be said. But I can't resist adding one little thing: you seem very thoughtful, and my (totally unsolicited, I know) opinion is that you should remain thoughtful about your choices. Don't let yourself ever be sucked in by a party line or a catch phrase on either side of this debate (i.e., raunch culture is bad! Boobies are empowering! Both reductive.) Find your own moral center, informed by the extrinsic evidence you have and your idea of how you want the world to be, and do what you damn want.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to zp27 :

This. Is exactly how I feel. I feel very comfortable in myself, and I can sleep at night with the decisions I made in life b.c I know that I'm not going to make everyone happy. I hate the fact that it feels like I prove being a feminist to others. I know I am, and honestly I should stop wasting energy commenting. It frustrates me b/c we have made such strides as women in redefining our roles and empowering each other. And right now it feels like I'm being told b/c I don't neatly fit into a box of what a supposed feminist mold looks like, then somehow I don't belong. And I do see what other women are saying b/c I can see how my posing in men's magazines is exploitive and is taking us back a few steps. However, it makes me happy, and I don't think that as another person mentioned earlier, that I have to 100 percent fight everything, or be all in, in order to be considered a feminist.

I think as women I should be allowed to pick and choose my battles. It's like telling a woman who is anti-abortion, but is just as passionate about women's rights as the next woman, that she's not considered a feminist. The angering this is a woman who supports Congress and random White Guys decide what happens to a women's body is still able to retain her feminist card, if you will, but I can't. She's entitled to her opinion respectfully, but b/c I pose sexily in men's mags I have my card revoked. It's the labeling that irritates me the most.

But I digress. I will take your advice and not let this get to me.(But will definitely think and keep this debate in my hand)I would never compromise my morals or values, and the minute I get to a position in the urban industry where I feel compromised, then I'm out. Simple as that. I just thought that people would be more open-minded in their definitions of a feminist. I respect peoples right to disagree, and I don't want it to be all rainbows and ponies, but I would at least hope that people look at things from my perspective.

[0+] Author Profile Page femteacher said:

Sorry Michaela, but the photos listed on your site perpetuate, to quote a recent song, the idea of "Don'tcha wish your girlfriend was hot like me..." By presenting yourself as a women worthy to be drooled over (I won't be more graphic than that, but I am sure you guys catch my drift), this is a very anti-feminist thing. Your pictures aren't in bikinis, most are either nude or in lingerie. You are posed in mostly submissive sexual poses. Your sole purpose is for men's gratification, thereby posing a problem for women who don't look like you. Sorry love, but I think you have bigger issues to figure out than just what people say about your relationship with your husband.

"Sorry love, but I think you have bigger issues"

That's very condescending. And calling someone you don't know 'love' seems very patronizing.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela said:

I have to respond to this because...well did you actually look at my pictures? I'm only nude in one pose, and it's an artistic nude with leaves covering my body. The rest of the pics I'm either fully clothed clothing, or in bikinis/lingerie, in yes, sexy poses. I never denied that I have sexy images, but please don't make it sound like my page is something it's not. I would really appreciate this. I don't understand also why you think what I do is solely for mens gratification either, has it ever occured to you that I enjoy posing sexily? That I love to be photographed. Why is that because I take sexy pictures that automatically it has to be for a man? I've been nothing but respectful in my replies to anyone on this, but I don't appreciate you trying to perpetuate the notion that my pictures are all nude or in lingerie. As I mentioned before I never denied having sexy pictures, but I hate someone writing something about me that isn't true. And why can't I still consider myself a feminist?

Yes, I do agree that I partake in one thing, that is based in exploitation, but that automatically negates me from calling myself a feminist? I love to pose and it makes me happy. Not because I have any issues, but b/c I love what I do and I'm comfortable in my skin not to feel ashamed about it. And how are you able to judge me? I consider myself a feminist b/c I want better rights for women.I hate that we still only make 80 cents of every man's dollar. I think that Hilary got shafted, and I hate the slut/stud double standard with a passion. I have taken care of myself, paid every rent, utility and insurance, and tuition bill on my own since I was 19 and have also worked and never once depended on a man for a job or for money. I've marched for women's rights and was a raised by a militant, feminist single mother. I'm also a mentor to young teenage girls at a local public high school. So, because I pose sexily in lingerie in magazines, I'm basically a thorn in feminism's side?

And finally, why is it that I have to go through this whole spiel for women such as you to accept me as a feminist? Why is there a curriculum to determine who is a feminist and who isn't? How are you more qualified to be my judge?

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Michaela :

But why do enjoy it? Wouldn't have anything to do with the years of socialisation that women get now would it? When someone is brought up to see that they are only worth something when their body fits a certain beauty standard and when men desire you of course you are going to "enjoy" it when that is validated.

I am getting really sick of the argument that women who don't agree with such pictures must be "ashamed". Have you ever actually considered that we could value ourselves on more than whether or not we are attractive to men? You should not have to pose half-naked and in degrading positions in order to feel attractive or confident. In fact I would go so far as to say that women who don't pose like that are more confident because they don't need the validation of misogynitic men.

I also wonder what kind of mentoring system would allow a model who does pose like that to mentor young women.

"I also wonder what kind of mentoring system would allow a model who does pose like that to mentor young women."

It makes me sad that you are such a hateful person.

Really? 'Cause I liked it.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Punchbuggy Green :

Makes me sad that you accuse me of making personal attacks but then go and do the exact same to me. You should look up hypocrisy in the dictionary.

"I also wonder what kind of mentoring system would allow a model who does pose like that to mentor young women."

This is the kind of attitude that keeps women subordinate. Because Michaela enjoys being sexualized in certain contexts, you see her as a worthless human being who needs to be kept away from impressionable young people because she might infect them with her sexuality.

Slut-shaming is never feminist, no matter how you frame it.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to nattles_thing :

Its not slut-shaming, its admitting that women might actually be capable of having an occupation that doesn't involve sex *gasp*.

Why teach girls that they are only worth their body? Only of course if their body is of a certain size shape and colour, because if its not they may as well learn now that under the patriarchy they are worthless. Teaching them that they are actually worth something shouldn't be such a radical concept.

It's worrying that you can't think of the OP as anything other than a sex worker. She is a real person. From what she's told us she's a strong, very independent feminist woman, and more girls should have women like her in their lives.

I've noticed that a lot of people tend to reduce sex workers to their job, and ascribe everything they do to their profession. It's a double standard -- I work in a bakery selling cupcakes, but no one tells me that I can't talk to children because I'll encourage them into a career of cupcake-selling, or that all my ideas are supporting my desire to sell more cupcakes. I don't like this trend. It's very dehumanizing.

I wonder if the girls she mentors even know about the modeling. And if they do, it might actually do them some good. Women are taught that we have to be desirable, but if we're too sexual we're dumb sluts. A strong woman who can be sexual but doesn't let anyone treat her as less because of it is a good role model.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to nattles_thing :

Thank you I appreciate this. You basically wrote exactly what I was trying to in a nutshell earlier. It saddens me that with all of the things I'm involved in that I have been reduced to my modeling job. I'm also a small business owner and a fashion designer, but I guess b/c fashion contributes to unrealistic thin body standards and eating disorders that I'm wrong for that too?

Thank you for your comments. Oh, and depending upon age the girls I mentor do know what I do. I just don't put out it out there, but if one of girls I talk to has a question about it then I am more than happy to answer it for her b/c I believe in breaking stereotypes. Thank you again for your feedback. Your comment has given me hope. (:

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Michaela :

You believe in breaking stereotypes but play into the biggest stereotype at all. You're a hypocrite and quite frankly, dangerous given that you're encouraging girls to think of themselves only in terms of what their body is worth. You do know that women are actually capable of using their head don't you?

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to becstar :

Okay that was just insulting. What makes you think I don't believe in women using their heads? B/c I take sexy pics right? Again, your whole argument that sexy pics=ignorant is tired and annoying as hell. I have said this ad nauseam on here, but I am a business owner, a fashion designer, financially independent, and student....I think I know a little something about a woman using her brain. But go ahead and put me back into a box if it makes you feel more comfortable.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Michaela :

If you do all that then you should no better. You should know how difficult it can be for a woman to be taken seriously in a business role because of the way she is sexualised men because of how many hypersexualised images of women exist. You should know that girls are considered to be just their bodies and need to shown that they are more than just their body no matter what BS society tells them. You should not be encouraging the very system which subjagates women in the first place.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to nattles_thing :

What, so teaching girls who already are bombarded with messages that they have to be sexualised in a very particular way in order to be worth something and then reinforcing that is a good thing? Why is teaching them that they are more than their bodies such a hard concept? Maybe if girls were taught to value their talents rather than their bodies then there wouldn't be such horrible self-esteem problems in the first place.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to becstar :

I’m sorry but have you been sitting in on these sessions with my students? Are you there? Have you even bothered to stop making ignorant assumptions about what I do and say, and actually ask me what we talk about? I don’t glorify anything about glamour modeling to my girls. I’m very honest and I have told them about unrealistic body standards, exploitation, and that a lot of what you see isn’t real and it’s only for fantasy. Honestly I don’t even know why I bother responding to you. It’s pointless, b/c you are so clearly stuck in this opinion of me that it’s not going anywhere. I find it sad that you think me taking sexy pics is basically the sum of my life, and that I’m incapable of being a multifaceted woman. Oh wells (:

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Michaela :

You tell them that but then what do they see you participating in? The very same thing that they see everyday - the idea that women are only worth their body. Do you honestly think they'll believe they are more than that when the very person telling him they can be more than that is participating in it as well?

I don't think anyone used to word slut before you mentioned it here. She is making choices that are, over all, harmful to women (and men, actually.) If I had a daughter, I would want her mentored by someone equally as intelligent as Michaela, but with a career that reached out to more people and helped more people. After all, I’m a social worker. I have devoted at least 40 hours a week to helping my community.

Also, I really don't like how the comments related to criticizing her profession are being spinned as slut shaming. I have no problem with the fact that she is proud of her body and sexuality and considers herself to be a sexual person. My problem is that she capitalizes, monetarily, off of those feelings without any real concern as to how it affects other people. I'm, essentially, angry at her for being selfish.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to ikkin :

I still don't understand how you assume that I don't care, or I'm not concerned about the effects of what I do. is it because I continue to take these pictures despite knowing the history? I'm honestly trying to understand why you get the notion that I'm being callous and flippant about the implications behind my modeling. Why is that I owe you and everyone else gratification? so you're telling me that because my work makes you unhappy, and sad, and yes, it is exploitive I should stop it to appease you? I am happy when I model. I emjoy modeling, it's relaxing for me.I am very busy during the day with running my businesses so I look at modeling as an outlet for me as well. I am very dedicated to my community, I don't know why based upon what I wrote you think that I'm not. It's like you want to paint me as this non-caring individual b/c you can't possibly think that Gasp! Glamour models can be feminists, and be educated about the history behind women's struggles, and can be concerned about how we're viewed, and still continue to take pictures.

[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to Michaela :

You shouldn't stop to please me. I, as an individual, don't matter. That seems to be something you can't get past. It matters when you are hurting hundreds and thousands of people. When you model in magazines that propagate negative gender roles and body expectations, you hurt people. And I suggested that you do some reading because you seem to not understand that fact. At this point, I think you choose not to understand it so you can go on living your selfish lifestyle with a limited amount of guilt.

[0+] Author Profile Page Ruby replied to ikkin :

How are Michaela's choices hurting hundreds of thousands of people? You have to accept the fact that people have differing opinions on this.

For example (and I know this is controversial) the n-word. White people used to use that word to put down persons of color, to put them in their place. But now, in the last few decades, black people have started to own that word, to give it their own meaning, to reaprropriate it in order to take away that negative and painful history. Now, some people feel like this is a really positive step in the right direction. Other people feel like it's only hurting the black community. The point is that people have different feelings about it. Society and culture are ever evolving things, you can't place them in a glass case and say "this is how things are for all time, for everyone".

And I know it's easy to argue that what Michaela does is probably organized by men, and therefore she's not really in control, etc.

That reminds me of this essay I read about a Mexican-American woman that played mariachi music. When she first started performing mariachi, it was a completely male-dominated form of expression, and people totally did not take her or other female performers seriously. Now, however, there are all-female mariachi groups that have gained considerable popularity. The author of the essay points out, however, that these mariachi groups are still directed by men, and that the all-female mariachi groups still do things differently than male mariachi groups. For example, they often wear pastel colored mariachi suits in pale pinks and blues, instead of the traditional black. They also play popular music, like Celine Dion songs and etc. instead of strictly traditional mariachi songs. So the question posed by the essay is this: is it wrong what these women do? Are they betraying their cause by playing in these mariachi groups, following the direction of men, and playing to feminine stereotypes? Or is what they're going positive overall, because it's breaking barriers and allowing women to participate in a mode of expression they were previously barred from?

It's kind of the same question with Michaela and other women in her position. Is she abandoning feminist values by following the direction of men and playing to (some) feminine stereotypes? Or is what she's doing positive, because it's breaking barriers and saying: it's okay for a woman to be sexy. It's not shameful or negative for a woman to show off her body and be proud of her appearance. A woman can be glamorous and beautiful and sexual and STILL be a serious, career-oriented, driven woman that is a positive role model.

this was great. thanks. :)

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Ruby :

How exactly is playing into every stereotype that the patriarchy ever created empowering? She is not being different. She is exactly the same as the thousands of other models who perpetuate the idea that women have to have a certain body type and are only worthwhile as long as they are hypersexualised.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to ikkin :

You really must not read my posts thoroughly b/c you keep saying that I’m ignoring that fact that what I do is exploitive and that posing for men is rooted in sexism. I have acknowledged that time and time again, and at this point I think you are choosing to ignore what I’m saying so that you can be selfish and hammer your singular point over and over again. I understand and know what’s going on, and if you want to label it selfish then so be it. It makes me happy, and I don’t feel like should give that up so that others can view me as a “true” feminist. I know what I am, and really that's all that matters.

[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to Michaela :

I think you're projecting your own fears that your career makes you less of a feminist. I haven't said anything to the effect that you are not good enough to be a feminist, etc. I'm very sure that you support a number of issues related to women's rights, but we are discussing an issue here where I believe you are on the wrong side of history, but, more importantly, I fear you are not concerned with the consequences of your actions. Let's be honest -- you don't give a fuck that you are perpetuating sexual stereotypes and negative body images by being a model in these magazines. By appearing in them, you tell other women they should look like you if they want to be/feel sexy and you tell other men that if they want to be men they need to date/fuck/marry a woman who looks like you. Face it. It isn't my fault that this is the outcome and consequence of magazines like Maxim, Stuff, and King. It isn't your fault either. But, seriously, accept that by allowing your photographs to be published in the way they are hurts other women. After you have accepted that, decide if you care enough to change your career. If you don't, you won't necessarily be a bad feminist (not really such a thing) but you will be a bad person, ethically speaking.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to ikkin :

So I'm a bad person now because of your opinion? And again, I've already accepted that what I do can hurt other woman, not because you want me to, but because I already know this. so, umm yeah, not sure why you keep saying this. And I do care, but I'm not going to live my life politically correct 24/7 365 days a year just so I can make everyone happy. I already mentioned that taking these pictures makes me happy. That's it. Very Simple. Also, I'm not projecting my insecurities about being a feminist, I'm responding to your post, as well as others that imply that b/c I pose for men's magazines that I have to turn in feminist card. Well, and I know this is going to piss you off to no end, but I consider myself a feminist. I don't believe that your opinion should shape how I choose to label myself. One of the main reasons why there was even a women's movement was to give other women the ability to have options in their roles in society. Honestly, earlier I responded to you b/c I thought that if I keep replying that at some point you would be able to step outside of your own narrow view look at it from a different perspective, but you are too busy telling me I'm a "bad person", and "I don't give a fuck" about women's rights. So we are going to have to disagree. I'm still going to do what makes me happy, you're still going to view me as a callous, non-caring, woman who is contributing to patriarchal sexism. The end.

[0+] Author Profile Page ikkin replied to Michaela :

Stop spinning what I say to make yourself feel better about being a shitty person. I didn't say you didn't give a fuck about women's rights. I said you don't give a fuck about the people you're hurting. And you don't.

The end.

[0+] Author Profile Page Jessica replied to ikkin :

Not the end. Personal attacks aren't tolerated and your behavior on this thread has been atrocious. Apologies to Michaela for not catching the attacks against you earlier. I think there's a lot of room for debate when it comes to images of beauty and women, but when it comes to disrespecting the women who choose to post about their personal experiences - there's no room for that here.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to becstar :

I never said that because you disagree with me that you are ashamed. Not sure where you are getting that from. And you're right I don't have to pose for men's magazines to feel attractive b/c I do without them. I felt sexy and attractive before posing for men's magazines, during, and I'll feel sexy and attractive after I'm done with men's magazines. My confidence level has nothing to do with a man's approval but it has everything to do with how I feel as a woman, about myself as a whole. I don't base my self esteem on what a man says is sexy and it's sad that you think that because I pose sexy I'm this uneducated, naive, low self esteem woman. But then again you don't know me and based upon what you've read you feel like because you look at one picture of me, you know my whole life, my outlook, and pretty much everything about me. That's a very ignorant assumption to make. Why don't you take time to get to know me before deriving your own conclusions? Isn't the intellectual process founded in the idea that we should look outside of ourselves and be able to look at things from another perspective? It's seems very narrow-minded of you to stay in one opinion without even once thinking of looking at it a different way.

I have allowed myself to read this commentary on this page and take in what some of the women have said. I am able to look at things from their point of view b/c I don't want to have tunnel vision. But it seems as if though you can't, because I'm a glamour model, give me that same respect. My job basically takes me out the running for respect and the ability to look at my lifestyle with an open mind.

If you want to take this discussion off of feministing, email me: m.nic.stephens@gmail.com. I would be more than happy to talk to you b/c I believe in shattering stereotypes. If you want to take a look at my pictures go here:

www.modelmayhem.com/357823 or/mikelan

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to Michaela :

You're not shattering any stereotypes. You're buying into the the exact market which continues to subjagate women. Do you really think that the young women seeing your pictures really care if you do community work? They'll be too busy comparing themselves negatively to you and believing they are only worth their body.

Because ALL young women are automatically comparing themselves all the time to everything they see in the media, right? I'm fourteen and I have never felt badly about my body because of models, nor have I ever thought that I was only worth my body. I think you underestimate many of us. Seeing pictures of sexy women does not suddenly make us feel inferior. Sure, there are lots of us that have self-esteem problems that may be brought out by the media's image of ideal women, but if they didn't show up then, they'd show up in something different - like being obsessive over grades, or worry over being socially awkward.

I think that women should be able to model if that's what they enjoy, because contrary to what you think, you are not the only one who knows how to be a True Feminist, nor are models the Ultimate Cause of all self-esteem issues. Should we just not be allowed to do anything "feminine" anymore? If makeup and lingerie and dresses make us feel comfortable and happy, should we stop wearing them because they exist to make women more desirable for men?

Honestly, I'm not sure if this comment even made sense considering it's 3:45 in the morning and I'm a young teenage girl who just can't help but aspire to cater to the patriarchy until I reach the magical age of 18 and become enlightened. So, if it's just completely stupid then I apologize, but this is my attempt to state my opinion.

Femininity itself is a social construction created to keep women subordinate to men, so yes, anything which caters to that is misogynistic. Even if a model as been socialised enough to beleive that she likes being ojectified that is not going to stop the social consequences of her actions.

You also seem to be implying that there's something wrong with girl's who have self-esteem problems and that is simply not the case. You're conflating self-esteem with other forms of social awkwardness. The most popular and 'cool' girl in a school can still be affected by self-esteem issues.

But I think perhaps you're misunderstanding the idea here. I don't think anyone's trying to claim that each and every time a girl or woman sees idealized and airbrushed images in the media they consciously think to themselves "well I don't look like that, so now I feel like shit." It's much more subtle than that. The idea is rather that when you're embedded in a culture where these kinds of attitudes toward women are reflected in the media images all around you, you gradually internalize it over time, and come to view women through this patriarchal lens where their only real value is in their appeal to the male gaze.

And it is a fact that in the kind of publications and productions in question here, women only serve one purpose: as objects to be admired by the male gaze and used by men. In this subculture, women are reduced to tits and ass. And it's simply not possible for a person to grow up in this culture without internalizing these messages to some degree. Nobody is impervious to their culture, and it's naive to think they could be. It's simply a fact about humans, and nothing to be ashamed about. So this leaves the question of how feminist it is to engage in this business open. In some sense, it amounts to colluding with the patriarchy by not only allowing yourself to be reduced to that object for male consumption, but by actively casting yourself in that role. I'm not sure if that makes it any clearer or not.

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to Michaela :

I followed the url you gave upthread, and maybe I just don't know how to use that website but I only saw about four photos. I tried to find a link to more of them but it just took me to a general search for the website. Anyway, out of the ones that I saw, one of them was pretty provocative and just not a style of photo that I like at all. But I did see one of you in a bikini (bathing suit) at the beach, and one of you fully dressed and jumping in the air, and in both of those you looked happy and confident. I'd have no problem with seeing something like those on facebook.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Pantheon :

Thank you for taking the time to look at my work. I put that link out there so that people could come to their own conclusions about what I do. Sorry about the weirdness with model mayhem, The site can be a little weird sometimes, but the very sexy picture that saw? I don't even have that one up on facebook. I just have the funny goofy bikini shots on there. I definitely try to keep the very sexual stuff separate from facebook. (By very sexual I mean the ones where I'm in an implied nude, in a very small bikini, and where I'm taking deliberate provocative poses.) But thank you for noticing that I am happy in my pictures, and thank you for looking at things in a different perspective.

[0+] Author Profile Page thanxgoodall said:

I don't want to be an asshole, but why are there so many comments on this post than the post about Sotomayor that's currently on the frontpage? Why as feminists do we care so much more about one woman taking and posting pictures of herself using her own free will than the President nominating someone to the Supreme Court who will serve for decades?

[0+] Author Profile Page Pantheon replied to thanxgoodall :

People tend to comment when the topic is controversial. The number of comments is not a good indicator of approval. You have no idea how many people have read either post.

[0+] Author Profile Page mandoir replied to thanxgoodall :
[0+] Author Profile Page backwardsd said:

Also some women enjoy looking at sexy pictures and pornography, straight and LGB, so I think eliminating this would not make the world any better.

I like that you are SMILING in a lot of your pictures. The only pornography and pictures that disturb me are ones where the woman looks in pain (or I know she is because the guy is going to town on her) or looks like she is about to be murdered or something.

Also I like that your hair is natural and curly in a lot of the pics and a lot of the pics are fun and cute or artistic, not just 'sexy' pics. If you saw a single pic in isolation you could get the wrong idea of the variety of your modeling.


To thanxgoodall: I think that this issue is more complicated and debatable. Sotomayor is obviously qualified and a lot of the coverage is bullshit calling her 'racist' because she is a proud latina. What is there to discuss?

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to backwardsd :

Thank you. I am very happy when I take the pictures and I thank you taking the time to look. That's basically the point I was making earlier, because some women are implying that somehow I'm naive, or misled, conflicted,or miserable because I take sexy pictures for men's magazines. I'm none of the above.I enjoyed everyone of those shoots whether they were sexy, or editorial. To me it's simple. I do something I enjoy, (regardless of it's sometime exploitive nature), that makes me happy, and that also pays well. If at any time I feel uncomfortable then I'm out.

[0+] Author Profile Page dewey eyed said:

The question that comes to my mind, and forgive a 1:30 AM lack of eloquence, is why your marriage is part of what you're presenting with the photos? Sure, your husband is fine with the modeling, and it's great that you have the communication 'behind the scenes' that supports this. But in my view, your relationship is what is intimate in your life, and it's being enmeshed into that public perception. It is the flip side of what a lot of people consider to be intimate - you're getting reactions from viewers who see the body as intimate and who would be more likely to display the relationship instead.

You're clearly comfortable with your physical image being available. As you say, you and your husband consider the modeling to be separate from the marriage. However, you're bringing both to FB and people are not going to be privy to that off-camera communication between you two. What would be the impact of taking your marriage status out of FB, and keeping the modeling and marriage separate from the view of others?

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to dewey eyed :

You make a very good point. My facebook page isn't really a tool for my modeling, I just put up a few pics from some shoots on there. Facebook is a display of our personalities and I have a huge number of photo albums dedicated to my life outside of modeling, and then two small albums that have pictures from modeling. My pages for modeling are modelmayhem, myspace,and my own personal url. And I think what bothered me the most is that people focused on those eight pictures of my modeling, but they didn't even take the time to look at my page and see that modeling is a small percentage of my life. I'm not going to take down the pictures though b/c facebook is a collection of all things me, and modeling is a part of me. Now on my other pages, I don't mention anything about my marriage. That's what I mean when I say that the two are separate.

Have I been clear enough? Basically all I'm saying is that facebook isn't a page for my modeling, I just happened to have a few pics on there , that's why I put up my married status. However, on model mayhem, myspace, and my own private website, it's strictly modeling, and no mention of my private life/marital status.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to Michaela :

I just read my reply to you and I want to let you know that I didn't mean to come off rude. That wasn't my intention. I wanted to clarify my stance of my marriage and modeling. After reading my last post I can see where it could be interpreted as me being snarky.

[0+] Author Profile Page dsds said:

Michaela I am an antifeminist and dont care what pics you post. I would't care if you did porn. Feminism saying they are giving women control over their bodies then say women are being objectified because they choose to dress sexy for men or as a job such your modeling. Be proud of your body and dont let feminist victim mentality control it. Antifeminists want true gender equality.

Thanks for joining us.

[0+] Author Profile Page FlamingBiatch replied to dsds :

"Antifeminists want true gender equality on mens' terms."

Fixed that for ya.

You realize that there is no singular feminist thought, right?

Feminists disagree. It's not feminism that's contradictory as a concept. It's the opinions of different individuals within topics of discussion.

The fact that there are different perspectives is not cause to scrap the whole system and become antifeminist. Then you're just against equality for women.

[0+] Author Profile Page becstar replied to dsds :

Of course you wouldn't, because anti-feminists whole reason for existing is subjagating women through sexuality. As long as we're not attempting to get jobs which use our brains (we actually have them you know) then of course you're happy.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tracey T said:

I'm beyond disgusted by sme of the comments on here. Sexism takes away a person's right to be an individual, just like some of these comments do. Yes, some women want to be sexy, provacutive and desired by the male gaze and do so from a position of education on sexism. Some of the comments completely remove a woman's agency to make decisions for herself. Is all some people on here are doing is reinforcing the idea that a woan can not be both sexual and seek male attention, and still be an intelligent human being. WHo the hell are you to tell a woman in what ways she is and is not allowed to feel sexy? B/c when people start attcking boob jobs, make-up and high hells in the name of feminism, that is precisely what they are doing.

[0+] Author Profile Page Tracey T said:

I'm beyond disgusted by sme of the comments on here. Sexism takes away a person's right to be an individual, just like some of these comments do. Yes, some women want to be sexy, provacutive and desired by the male gaze and do so from a position of education on sexism. Some of the comments completely remove a woman's agency to make decisions for herself. Is all some people on here are doing is reinforcing the idea that a woan can not be both sexual and seek male attention, and still be an intelligent human being. Who are you to tell a woman in what ways she is and is not allowed to feel sexy? B/c when people start attcking boob jobs, make-up and high hells in the name of feminism, that is precisely what they are doing.

[0+] Author Profile Page femteacher replied to Tracey T :

No one is saying that she can't make decisions for herself. Of course she can. However, I don't think that every woman's CHOICE can be defined as feminist. Michaela misread my comment above when I said she was doing an anti-feminist thing. I did not say she wasn't a feminist. However, we must be able to analyze women's decisions in an effort to think about how best to proceed as a movement. I don't think it's anti-feminist to discuss whether or her actions are consistent with feminist beliefs. This is the fundamental question of the movement today, whether the basis of feminism rests on certain actions and beliefs, or if by definition, supporting ANY woman's choice is what feminism is all about. Personally, I think Michaela's role as a mentor is feminist, her ability to choose her own career independent of her husband is femininist. Her modeling career, however, I think is anti-feminist.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to femteacher :

I definitely respect your opinion, and I can agree and understand your perspective. Thank you for being respectful.

[0+] Author Profile Page alixx said:

She can do whatever you want but I take issue with claiming to be progressive while actively participating in the exploitation of women by continuing to perpetuate the same patriarchical nonsense.

[0+] Author Profile Page saresails said:

Irregardless if you are serving the patriarchy or what, because we are all acculturated to do that, I really commend you on taking a tough stance and being open and honest to discussion with some rather close-minded people in this forum.

In any case, you serve the patriarchy in a different way than I might, but its something we all do even if we consciously try to fight it. Do what makes you happy, and ignore people who are going to other and belittle you because of it. Life's too short to be bothered with that.

[0+] Author Profile Page Michaela replied to saresails :

Thank you for your comment. I agree with you, this is same point I was trying, lol, to make earlier..we all serve the patriarchy or have served them at some point, and it doesn't make us horrible or less of a feminist b/c of it. Honestly, I first I was really hell bent on at least getting some of the close-minded people that you mentioned to at least be able to see it from my perspective. It was just very disappointing and shocking to see such tunnel vision among fellow feminists. But, you're so right, life is too short, and I'm going to continue to do what I enjoy irregardless of whether or not it's okay to some. Have a great weekend! (:

For the most part people have missed the intersection of culture and race here.

Non-European beauty remains largely marginalized the mainstream media, modeling and even in erotic/sexual materials.

The void is mainly being filled with hyper-sexualized imagery such as Smooth magazine and popular music videos. I don't care how well meaning parents are, but I'd venture a guess that most girls at some point look outward for validation of their appearance. This means that girls with dark skin have a lot fewer places to look if they want to see women who even remotely resemble them and who are considered desirable; they must also simultaneously attempting to drown out people referring to them as 'nappy', fat, 'dark BUT still pretty', etc, etc.

Now here is where it gets tricky.

I checked out both Michaela's website and the magazines that were mentioned. I doubt highly that these models are inspiring eating disorders or an unhealthy lifestyle. I reckon mainstream folks like Lindsey Lohan, Olsen Twins, Keira Knightly, Victoria Beckham, Nicole Richie, Kate Moss, Kate Bosworth, etc. are doing that just fine. For the most part, the women I saw on the cover of some of the magazines have plenty of meat on their bones and look healthy. Yet would anyone of these body types have been acceptable at the final level of Miss America/USA?

I'm not defending the hyper-sexualization that these magazines promote but I do think that in a greater cultural context, these magazines and photos are a statement in of themselves that for a lot of people these models validate the fact that darker skin, more tone and padding on the body is also sexy.

We all know that European beauty isn't going to magically step off the pedestal. So I sort of feel it a bit unfair to criticize women here utilizing probably the one place that showcases different looks without recognizing the beauty hierarchy that the majority community has not only created but continues to impose on everybody else by being exclusionary.

Yes, I would love to see a day when women are not overly sexualized period. And a day where we can get over the collective obsession with beauty or at least make it a lot more inclusive of men and women and all types of people.

But until then I'm going to proceed with caution in the analysis of culture, beauty, sexiness and feminism.

Trolls gone. Thanks, Michaela, for posting about your experience here and for engaging in the comments section - even when so many people were so rude and ignorant towards you.

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