I’m not sure if anyone on here is interested in reading this, but it doesn’t much matter. It pertains to feminism, at least some, and I really, really need to get this off my chest, and the internet allows me to spill my guts without properly identifying myself.
I’m 17 years old, male, and a strong believer in feminism. I know everyone’s first thought will be that my mother probably had a lot to do with that. Unfortunately, that is not the case. There were three or four very serious things that happened to my sister, and to a couple of very close female friends of mine that drew my attention to sexism when I was about twelve. Later, something very sexist and hurtful was done my girlfriend, when I was 15. I learned about feminism by accident, when I was randomly screwing around on the internet, and came across a feminist web site. I read about it, and started identifying myself as a feminist the next day. It turned out I already was a feminist, and I just didn’t know about that label. That would have been two years ago, and I have learned more, and become more engaged in it since. I found this movement by my self. As it happens, my mother is actually the main cause of my problem at the moment.
Tonight was the first time in my life I can remember my mom having a frank discussion with me about sex, and the funny thing is, she brought it up. I went over it and over it in my head, and can’t think of anything I did to prompt that talk. Now, I believe extremely strongly that sex is a perfectly normal body function, no different than any other, and that any and all sex that involves only those who agree to it under no pressure is perfectly acceptable. Until tonight, I honestly didn’t know how my mom felt about it, but I learned that she holds some traditionalist ideas.
I told her how I felt about it, and she got really mad. We had a huge fight. Still, the thing that made me upset wasn’t that she was mad (I’m quite used to that); it was what she told me. In a normal parent/teenager relationship, the parent would scare the child with STD’s. Instead, she came up with something else; she knows that I care very much about fighting sexism. She knows that my worst fear is doing something to spread bigotry, or social injustice, or anything else like that, sexism being the one that upsets me most, so she told me that sex benefits the guy far more than the girl; that the first time a girl has sex, it ALWAYS a bad experience, and both physically and emotionally painful; that girls have to learn to like it over time, and that it always sucks for them the first time, and usually a while after that.
I have almost no female friends that are still virgins. I have a wide variety of female friends, and I only know of one or two who haven’t told me about their sexual experiences, and all of them have told me that they enjoy sex very much. I told my mom that, and she said “of course they aren’t going to tell a nice guy that he is hurting someone every time he has sex.”
I was terrified. I thought “ Oh my god, if she’s telling the truth, I was born a horrible monster.” I walked away doing everything I could not to simultaneously puke and cry my face off. Not only did that mean that I was a monster, but that all men who ever have sex are too. If I had been thinking straight, I could have figured out what someone else had to tell me later in the day, but when my mom said that, it really freaked me out, and I failed to think about it rationally
I had always thought, based on what some very close, and totally plutonic female friends have told me, that for a girl, sex feel just like it does for guy, but on the inside instead of the outside, if you know what I mean. I happen to be in a relationship at the moment, and there are some complications that make it difficult for us to see each other, but we will get an opportunity to soon. We have talked about sex, and we are both very open about it. None the less, she is one of the few girls of similar age to me that I know who is still a virgin. Now, she is interested ins sex, and so am I . In fact, she is the one who brought it up first. I would have sex only in the interest of harmless fun. I would never dream of doing anything that would degrade her, or be physically or emotionally uncomfortable for her. As I said when she and I talked about it, despite what a big deal our culture makes it out to be, I would think of it as just another fun thing for us to do together; no worries, no pressure; we would use protection, and both have a good time together. I immediately thought of her when my mom said all this, and was deeply afraid that she was going to suffer the horrible feelings my mom described, and that made me even more of an emotional wreck than I would have been just thinking that men were monsters.
I called a girl I really trust, who happens to be very open, and very promiscuous (thus making her highly qualified to answer my questions), and told her exactly what had happened, and how emotionally torn up I was, and that I needed to know if any of that were true. She reassured me that it was all nonsense, and that my mom had taken a few tiny grains if truth about what happens the first time a girl has sex, and twisted them horribly to scare me out of having sex.
I felt better, but I’m still feeling horrible. This was just a couple of hours ago, I’m still really upset that my mom would do something like that to me. It really hurts.
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There are some situations (like having endometriosis or other medical complications) that can make sex painful, but that's certainly not the norm. I don't think I know any women (other than virgins, obviously) who *don't* love sex.
It sounds like you have no reason to think that your girlfriend is secretly dreading it or is feeling pressured, so if she is telling you what she wants, trust her! She knows her desires much better than your mother does.
Oh Clay - what a wonderful young man you are. We don't get to know much about your Mother from this post but here's a guess and way for you to look at it. Some Mothers really freak at the time when their "little boy" moves into manhood. While it's a time of beginning for the young man it can be seen as an end by his Mother - an end to his needing her, an end to his wanting to be with her, an end to her parent/child relationship - an end to her use. And as you are versed in the ideas of feminism it also signifies the beginning of her son having power over her.
As a feminist you are probably also aware of the rates of childhood sexual abuse of girls/women. This might be hard but take a deep breath, step back and ponder, your Mother's first experience might have been as bad as she is saying it is for all women.
Your Mother's approach was mean and manipulative. Does she have a history of dealing with you in this way? If so you will always need to evaluate what she tells you with this in mind. If not perhaps some of the things I mentioned above are at play. Maybe when you're feeling calmer you could talk to her about this - or e-mail her your post?
What your Mother told you about first sexual experiences can be true but is NOT universally true. Particularly when both partners have mutual respect (which it seems that you and your girlfriend do) and are open and honest with each other. I think you could help your girlfriend by encouraging her to do some research through both the library and the internet and then with herself through masturbation before you have intercourse for the first time. You could continue talking with your friends about how you can be a sensitive and loving partner as well as doing your own research.
You were NOT "born a horrible monster". Sex between people who care for and respect each other, who are open and honest about what pleases them cannot only be another fun thing to do together but a real source of joy and fulfillment. Big hug.
"I think you could help your girlfriend by encouraging her to do some research through both the library and the internet and then with herself through masturbation before you have intercourse for the first time."
Great advice!
Besides, I've never had any sex :( but I'd like to have PIV sex someday and I've been preparing for if and when that happens in part by practicing with a vibrator (it seems that one's vagina's first penetration with a penis is more likely to be painful if she's never had anything else in her vagina before than if she's already grown comfortable playing with her fingers, approximately-penis-shaped toy, etc. in there).
My first time sucked. It didn't suck because it was painful or that I didn't want it or because I was being emotionally, psychologically, or physically harmed. At the time, I didn't think it sucked at all. But in retrospect, as I've gotten to know myself and my body better, I've found that practice makes perfect. It was a perfectly fine experience. Just knowing what I know now when I have sex, that first time just sucks in comparison. I wouldn't trade it for anything because it was the start of me knowing my sexuality with another person.
It sounds as though your mom knew just the nerve to hit to make you question your sex life. She sounds really manipulative.
As a feminist man who may be another young woman's "first" sexual experience, just follow your girlfriend's lead. Make the experience about her pleasure first. Use the experience you have. Let her guide you. Talk and communicate. Let it be a fun, funny, sensual experience.
In other words, your mom is lying. The first time may be a little uncomfortable, weird, or just suck in comparison to later sex, but it isn't awful for all women.
Again, Clay, you. are. awesome. Your mother manipulated you and hurt you, and thank you for asking women your own age in addition. It seems like your mother might be the kind of person who needs to be fact-checked a lot. I'm sure she was trying to protect you, and, personally, I wonder if she's projecting her own issues with sex on to you.
Don't let her. You are a smart, empathetic young man, and frankly an ideal first time sex partner because you care about her needs as well as your own. Yes, sex can be uncomfortable the first time for a woman, but the safer and more relaxed she feels, the less pain she will be in. You sound like the kind of guy who's not going to pressure or rush her, which is going to reduce her physical discomfort. Remember you are not a monster. You are an amazing, giving, wonderful man. Please don't change.
I agree that maybe her first experience was terrible and maybe she hasn't had open conversations with girls and women about sex like you have. I mean I can relate to what ElleStar said. Sex is better now than the first few times. But since I had no comparison, it wasn't bad the first few times. I personally think the "sex is always bad the first time for girls" meme gives guys an excuse to not find out how they can make the girl's first time be as good as possible. Then she doesn't expect better and he doesn't try too hard and her first time isn't that great. But it doesn't have to be that way and I'm sure it won't with you.
Clay, you're so awesome. You're also not alone, my boyfriend, Donnie, has a lot of the same sentiments.
We haven't had PIV intercourse, but I think it may help to flesh out a definition of sex: there've been plenty of discussions about this here, but I define sex as two or more people pleasuring one or more of the partners through some interaction with genitals. To me, sex is everying from fingering and handjobs to oral and anal to PIV intercourse.
I was (and still am to a degree) very ignorant of my sexuality, but playing and learning together has been a real journey for Donnie & I. When we (or he, more accurately) first started doing things below the belt, we had to use a ton of lube for just *one* finger, and even then it was sometimes too uncomfortable. For me, foreplay is really important: light touching, cuddling, kissing, teasing, and playing with my clit. In short (too late..) I need to be thoroughly stimulated and relaxed to progress.
So, (not saying you do but) don't think of sex as beginning and ending with PIV - work your way up. Obviously I can't predict the future, but I think that having patient nonPIV sex will make the first time MUCH more enjoyable for the both of us. Good luck to you and your girl! :)
If I may, I'll distill this for you: your mom wanted to scare you out of having sex. You anticipated her wanting to scare you, but you underestimated her ability to be an incredibly effective button-pusher. If she had used the tactic you expected- talking about STDs- you would have known what to do, because you've done your research. She used another tactic that hit home more emotionally for you, so it was harder for you to respond calmly. That's totally normal and understandable, and definitely not a reason to beat yourself up. You went to a friend and got the correct technical information. You now know that having sex with someone who is fully consenting won't make you a horrible monster, and that if you take things slowly and listen to your partner there shouldn't be any pain for anyone. Take care of yourself emotionally, because you had a scare, but remember that this is just a different scare tactic, and nothing more.
Clay, you should really read this post: http://community.feministing.com/2009/05/judge-me-not-my-genitals.html It's more or less the same situation where a mother tries to shame and punish her child for becoming more-than-a-child and making intelligent and adult choices, except the victim of the sex-shaming is a girl. So, no... your mother is not right, and neither is this girl's mother. Sex between consenting people, having sex when you really want it (and not when you feel you "should") is generally an awesome experience for all, as long as it is with full respect and concern between the partners.
Its fairly common for the first time to hurt physically, but that doesn't mean that it always happens and it certainly doesn't mean its a bad experience emotionally as well.
I was an active masturbatrix (clit and internal) well before I had sex, so my first time wasn't painful, it was just boring and mediocre.
My mother told me something similar, that sex hurts and that women eventually learn to tolerate it. Also, she told me that girls initially want to have sex and then get over what she described in other words as the novelty factor. My poor mom ):
The first time wasn't painful at all, it just wasn't that pleasurable because I hadn't learned the my favorite positions yet, the right angles, etc. I think it's like that with a new person, not just your first time. It was not my boyfriend's first time but it was still awkward for him too because it was our first time and we had to work together to learn how our bodies worked together. After the third time or so it was fabulous and still is :)
I heard that line a lot when I was a virgin. In my case, it wasn't at all true. I loved my first time. Loved it. It was fantastic--long, pleasurable, romantic, and respectful.
For me, sex is a very emotional thing. I needed it to be with the right partner. Others share a view similar to yours in that sex can be just fun and doesn't have to come from a place of romantic connection, and that's great too! Everyone is different and ultimately, everyone should be free to do what they feel comfortable with.
My partner and I took our time to get to vaginal intercourse. I was prepared for it to be painful and had accepted that possibility. I was happy when it wasn't. Unfortunately, that is not true for some women's experiences. Sometimes the first time hurts, but if a woman is truly ready to have sex, then that fact won't stop her.
And vaginal sex does not always hurt women. That's bull. There are certainly conditions that make sex painful or impossible (endometriosis, vaginismus, etc) but that doesn't represent the entire female population.
Bottom line: That was a manipulative tactic for her to take and I think you know it. Both you and your friend sound like very responsible people and if you both agree that sex is something you want to share with each other, then do it.
Whoops, i missed "relationship" and saw "friend." Apologies.
Oh, poor guy. Well, your mom was wrong. Just like all of the other comments have said.
BUT the first time for some women is uncomfortable or even a bit painful. That doesn't mean you should feel guitly. If both parties consent then it is fine. You have to take that plunge at some point. Sex gets more comfortable once you do it often enough.
If you're as caring as you seem to be via your post then your girlfriend's first time should be great even if it is a little painful.
Well, I don't want to go to deep into my own experiences, and I agree with what everyone's said so far. I don't want to scare you off or do more of what your mom was doing, but I know that if I were you right now I would be thinking "If this is all bull, why do so many people think it's true? There must be SOMETHING to this!"
Well, I think that there is some truth to what your mom told you. The traditional idea is that the first time is always horrible for girls, that it hurts, that it's degrading, that it's something to be endured and tolerated. But keep in mind, in this same "traditional" story, girls are taught that sex is horrible, don't want sex, and feel obligated to "give it up" as their duty to a man. As an undercurrent to this story, a part that's always there but rarely talked about - many girls have been in abusive relationships in the past, with parents, with adults, with anyone really.
So you can see that if that's how you thought about sex - as something dirty, as an obligation, as something sinful or degrading that men would only do to you because they didn't respect you, then regardless of any physical pleasure, the first time (and even subsequent times) WOULD be awful. For those of us who've been in abusive situations, it's also often easy to fall into the same patterns of thinking from previous horrible experiences.
So, I think that's why this idea is so prevalent. When you have a girl who doesn't feel coerced or degraded, who genuinely DOES want sex and doesn't feel shame about it, and particularly if that girl doesn't have a history of horrible or degrading experiences, of course in that case the rest of the story doesn't make sense and doesn't apply anymore.
Traditionally, this story about first times was probably truer than it is today, as girls were more likely to be shamed and degraded about sex all their lives - of course that's going to affect your feelings about sex later in life.
But many people don't live in that world anymore. If your girlfriend has a positive attitude about things, and you are both sensitive to each-other's feelings, I think it could be a wonderful experience for both of you.
As far as worrying about her lying to you about being OK with sex, well - I admit that I've done that before, but unless she has a history of being in abusive relationships where being not "OK" with things was unacceptable, I wouldn't worry about it to much - and even if she was, then talk to her about it, and make sure she really isn't feeling coerced, it may still be what she really wants. Ultimately, you have to trust each other to be honest about how you're feeling, and then everything will work out alright.
As I'm sure you know and as your mom seems to not want you to know, girls are just people, our emotions and our reactions, honesty, etc work just like anyone else's. Treat your girlfriend like a friend, like a person you respect and everything will work out. :)
Well, I don't want to go to deep into my own experiences, and I agree with what everyone's said so far. I don't want to scare you off or do more of what your mom was doing, but I know that if I were you right now I would be thinking "If this is all bull, why do so many people think it's true? There must be SOMETHING to this!"
Well, I think that there is some truth to what your mom told you. The traditional idea is that the first time is always horrible for girls, that it hurts, that it's degrading, that it's something to be endured and tolerated. But keep in mind, in this same "traditional" story, girls are taught that sex is horrible, don't want sex, and feel obligated to "give it up" as their duty to a man. As an undercurrent to this story, a part that's always there but rarely talked about - many girls have been in abusive relationships in the past, with parents, with adults, with anyone really.
So you can see that if that's how you thought about sex - as something dirty, as an obligation, as something sinful or degrading that men would only do to you because they didn't respect you, then regardless of any physical pleasure, the first time (and even subsequent times) WOULD be awful. For those of us who've been in abusive situations, it's also often easy to fall into the same patterns of thinking from previous horrible experiences.
So, I think that's why this idea is so prevalent. When you have a girl who doesn't feel coerced or degraded, who genuinely DOES want sex and doesn't feel shame about it, and particularly if that girl doesn't have a history of horrible or degrading experiences, of course in that case the rest of the story doesn't make sense and doesn't apply anymore.
Traditionally, this story about first times was probably truer than it is today, as girls were more likely to be shamed and degraded about sex all their lives - of course that's going to affect your feelings about sex later in life.
But many people don't live in that world anymore. If your girlfriend has a positive attitude about things, and you are both sensitive to each-other's feelings, I think it could be a wonderful experience for both of you.
As far as worrying about her lying to you about being OK with sex, well - I admit that I've done that before, but unless she has a history of being in abusive relationships where being not "OK" with things was unacceptable, I wouldn't worry about it to much - and even if she was, then talk to her about it, and make sure she really isn't feeling coerced, it may still be what she really wants. Ultimately, you have to trust each other to be honest about how you're feeling, and then everything will work out alright.
As I'm sure you know and as your mom seems to not want you to know, girls are just people, our emotions and our reactions, honesty, etc work just like anyone else's. Treat your girlfriend like a friend, like a person you respect and everything will work out. :)
"Traditionally, this story about first times was probably truer than it is today, as girls were more likely to be shamed and degraded about sex all their lives "
...and more likely to have their first times be forced-marriage wedding-night rapes, and more likely to have their first times involve rapists shoving adult-size penises into smaller-than-adult-size vaginas, and therefore less likely to have any natural lubrication from vaginal arousal, and more likely to have stitches in their labia ripped open (I've heard of of some communities having their FGM rates go down but I haven't heard of any having their FGM rates go up, so my guess is that FGM was more common in the past), and so on...
Well, the first time I had sex, it definitely hurt. I think that's just because inserting the penis in the vagina breaks the hymen, and the pain (oh, and blood--most everyone bleeds their first time, too) is present because of that breakage. But other than my first PIV intercourse, the only time it's hurt is if my boyfriend accidentally goes deeper than I'm used to. Just listen to your partner and all should be good.
I don't think it bleeds for "most everyone," but maybe I'm wrong about that. There are plenty of ways for a hymen to break before you become sexually active and I know that's true for me and all my close female friends.
Whoops. I had meant to put in something about how there's a possibility of the hymen breaking before the woman becomes sexually active. Guess it slipped my mind.
I'm sure there are quite a few people who never bled their "first time." When I put "most everyone," I was referring to stories I have heard other women tell about bleeding their first time.
I did not bleed my first time and it didn't hurt AT ALL. It was kind of boring though. The second time was amazing. My partner and I experimented for a long time before making what we thought would be a big jump to PIV intercourse, and it was no big deal when it happened. If you take things slow and listen to your partner everything will be fine. Keep being awesome and try not to let your mom get to you.
Oh my goodness, Clay, congratulations - not only are you an independent, highly-evolved thinker, you're also going to have an amazing sex life that will only get better thanks to your respectful, loving attitude.
I was really sad to read about what your mum told you - mostly on your behalf because it frightened you so much, but also partly for the girl(s) who might have missed out on future sweet, considerate sex with you had her ruse succeeded!
My humble suggestion is to put the pain (if you even encounter any) in context. Women love sex, and in particular, women who love you will love having sex with you. You will naturally be extremely considerate of a girl having sex for the first time with you, and you'll feel pangs of regret and trepidation if she reports the slightest pain. But between you you'll gradually work out what works, and then the real fun will begin. The pain will soon be forgotten, and there won't be the slightest blame attached to you because, as I might've mentioned, women love sex.
And that's only IF she experiences pain - it's not a given at all (and blood? Even less so). As for a lovely guy like you "hurting someone every time he has sex" - you can forget it. You're going to give and receive vast amounts of love and pleasure, and there's not a lot your mother's unfortunately warped view of female sexuality can do to prevent that.
I think the amount of concern and sensitivity you've shown already makes it clear that when you and your girlfriend are ready, you'll be able to have a good experience together. :) All of the advice posted here is good, though- especially about making sure *she* is aware of her body. That makes a HUGE difference.
Personally, my first experience with PIV sex was actually fairly painful, but honestly? I don't even care, it was still one of the best nights of my life, because it was a beautiful, emotional experience and I know all he cared about was making it the best that he could for me. Besides, even with the pain, there was also intense pleasure.
Every woman is different, some experience pain the first time and some don't, and that pain is much, much less likely if she has experimented and explored her body beforehand, so again- do encourage that.
I'm sorry your mom made you feel this way :( You are awesome!
I'm going to echo what a previous commenter said: your mom took something with a grain of truth in it--that PIV intercourse can be uncomfortable or painful for some girls the first time--and distorted and exaggerated it to try to scare you away from sex. Luckily for your girlfriend, it didn't work. ;)
The truth is that there are a couple of factors that can cause pain for someone who's never been vaginally penetrated before. There's the one-off discomfort from the breaking of the hymen, but there's also the issue of muscles protesting because they've never stretched that way before. The first one is what it is; the thickness of the hymen varies a lot from woman to woman. The second also has an individual component--some just find it easier than others--but will be significantly helped along if she's relaxed and having fun and if you start small (i.e. penetration with fingers or a small vibrator) and work your way up.
I had always thought, based on what some very close, and totally plutonic female friends have told me, that for a girl, sex feel just like it does for guy, but on the inside instead of the outside
Not quite--a vagina isn't an inside-out penis. Again, there's a huge amount of individual variation, but in the most basic physical sense, vaginal penetration feels good in the same way that, say, having your balls (gently!) handled would feel good: it's nice, and can be extremely intimate, but for most women it's not the kind of direct stimulation that leads to orgasm. Some women can come from g-spot stimulation, but that responds to pressure more than friction.
If you want to get into direct comparisons, the clitoris is biologically analogous (or is it homologous? goddammit I can never remember) to the penis; they develop out of the same fetal structure. So think of all the nerve endings and sensation in your penis, then imagine all that contracted into an itty bitty organ smaller than the head of a Q-tip, and suddenly you realize why the clit is so much fun and why it deserves lots and lots of love and attention.
Thus concludes today's utterly unsolicited sex ed lesson. ;)