I recently read this article by Jackson Katz called "Eminem, Misogyny, and the Sounds of Silence."
He takes on the lyrics of Eminem's new album, but more importantly, addresses the *lack* of condemnation for Eminem's lyrics on the part of music critics.
I've included some of Eminem's lyrics that Katz pinpoints in his article at the bottom.
Katz points out that it should be impossible to ignore the implications of such lyrics, but even music critics, whose job it is to assess music, do not write a word about Eminem's misogynist music.
Some highlights from the article:
"Popular art succeeds, at least commercially, precisely because it resonates with a certain audience - for whatever reason - in a given cultural and historical context."
"Desensitization is one of the key effects of exposure to violence, both in media and real life."
"Is it going too far to suggest that when wealthy nations such as ours export music by the likes of Eminem to countries with that level of misogynous violence that we are practicing what might be considered a particularly insidious form of cultural imperialism?"
Some of Eminem's lyrics:
(**Trigger Warning**)
"Fe Fi Fo Fum
I think I smell the scent of a placenta
I enter central park, it's dark, it's winter in December
I see my target with my car, and park and approach her tender
Young girl by the name of Brenda and I pretend to befriend her
Sit down beside her like a spider, hi there girl you mighta
Heard of me before, see whore you're the kinda girl that I'da
Assault and rape and figure why not try to make your pussy wider
Fuck you with an umbrella then open it up while that shits inside ya"
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While I'm not agreeing with his lyrics in the least, I like Eminem. His music is catchy and it's good to run to because he was so angry. I like how his words flow and rhyme, and since I'm not so into the rap/hip-hop scene of music, I mostly find mainstream musicians in that genre that I like.
Should I not listen to his music because of lyrics that offend pretty much every group of people?
Yes, he comes off as discriminatory, racist, homophobic, misogynist, etc. but that doesn't mean he isn't a good lyricist. While the message is bad, the lyrics can still be good- the ones above, not so much. His new CD isn't all that great, in my opinion. I'm glad I didn't buy it, but not because he's byist or misogynist. Because I didn't like the music.
But tons of other artists have lyrics concerning the aforementioned. If I picked out every artist that did, I be left with very few musicians I'd enjoy listening to.
Just because he says something like that doesn't mean he's going to do it. Plenty of musicians write about death, but they're still alive; they write about sex with strangers, but they're happily married; they write about made-up people with made-up lives.
Yes, his lyrics are very byist.
But that won't make me think it's some "insidious form of cultural imperialism."
I understand hateful people, and I understand progressive equalists... the only thing I don't understand is people like you, who fall in this weird in-between area that, philosophically, can only exist as a paradox. It must take some weird mental gymnastics to get to that place... or maybe it just happens when one grows up in a culture so steeped in misogyny they can't see the effects of it.
I'm wondering... would you listen to Eminem if his lyrics contained words like 'n*gger'? Most people would say no, because blatant racism is frowned upon in most sectors of American society today. Blatant misogyny, however, seems to be doing just fine. Does that really seem ok to you?
We all have our own contradictions, and starryeyed.kid21 really put themselves out on a limb to admit they think eminem is a good lyricist and makes catchy music. At the same time, this individual is acknowledging the very problematic things going on in the music. This is healthy. Uncritically listening to eminem, or anybody really, probably isn't the healthiest thing in the world. So I wouldn't be so quick to assume that we are so steeped in misogyny that we don't notice the lyrics - yes, we're steeped in it, but starreyed.kid21 said they did notice. Let's not believe that because this individual has noticed eminem's musical ability, they must not have thought critically about the lyrics. We can call it a paradox and try to mystify it so that it never will make sense to us, or we can try to ponder.
We're always in contact with things we find problematic or offensive, and despite ourselves, we might like some of them. If we think eminem is offensive, what is the solution then? We can take censorship off the table because that won't fly - even if we were to censor eminem, there are still people who already speak the content of his lyrics in their everyday lives, just not in rhyme. Perhaps he manufactures some of those sentiments, but he is also speaking from experiences and with an attitude that many people already identify with - what then? What solutions are on the table? I ask because it's looking like opposition to eminem is being prioritized over finding solutions.
And asking if we would listen to eminem if his lyrics contained the n word...are you asking if it is more offensive to use the n word than to slur women? I'm pretty sure he has used it at some point, and we can have a different conversation about whether, or to whom or when eminem might be considered an insider to the culture. Check out Nas, "Be a N----- Too" - a really interesting eminem reference.
If we think eminem is offensive, what is the solution then?
Well I'm more from the camp that it's the absence of outrage to this garbage that is the real problem here.
Speaking our mind is one way to at least make our voices be known that this is not acceptable and at the very least it's something that should be challenged socially and intellectually.
Some people who are criticizing misandry in music were offended because Lily Allen supposedly (I haven't heard the song) sang a song about a lover's small penis. And something the Katy Perry sang about also didn't resonate well with folks either.
That's quite a disconnect.
Also we should keep in mind that in many opinions women are to blame for this promulgation of misogyny. People actually believe that misogyny in media resonates especially with men because men feel emasculated in our culture.
And you know I might have stopped to ponder that argument if not for the fact that when men have more power and dominance over women, women are treated far, far, worse. Men treat each other worse too. I'm using history and culture as my guide.
It's almost like that Stockholm video game creator and others act like there is some void their personhood for the fact that they can't go around killing and raping---so they are drawn to creating and participating in all of the this violent entertainment and media.
There mere existence of this material could be chalked up to chance. It' the broad acceptance of these elements that I see as a bigger issue. I mean what is a tween to think when people glorify and popularizes songs about sticking an umbrella inside of you? I honestly don't know what an adult can say to a kid to lessen what might the beginnings of a slow mini-existential crisis...
Food for thought: Nevermind the fact that the song wouldn't get recorded or let alone sell, but imagine swapping the girl in his lyrics for a boy. Yeah, like he's singing about a same-sex encounter. This whole fucking country would shut down. People would be besides themselves with rage calling for boycotts and for people to lose jobs.
I don't disagree with any of the reasons you list about why eminem is a problem. I just don't always find outrage that productive, especially if the goal is to get others outraged so that they're on our side. I can't see why it would be more important to express opposition than to brainstorm about the "what next?" We aren't the National Organization for Women, having to put out a statement anytime someone does something sexist - there are channels that cover that for us, that maintain a feminist message to the public, so what can we do on the ground?
If I were to read the lyrics over and over again, I'm sure I would get outraged. But I know that they're there, and I know there are men who feel that way. Being outraged wastes a lot of energy, and there's too much work to do for that, especially when I know these things exist, have been said by others, and have probably been said even more offensively.
I understand some people haven't thought a whole lot about the music they listen to, or they just don't care. Getting other people to hear the lyrics they listen to, and trying to get them opposed like us isn't that effective if we're thinking about the long term. "Raising consciousness" or "raising awareness" is just a very small part of the work that needs done. Otherwise we've just got a whole bunch of really mad people who aren't buying or downloading his music and who hate his guts because of his lyrics. Totally leaving behind the people who just appreciate a good beat and would be appalled by the idea that because of this, someone thought they agreed with the lyrics. Some might stop buying his CDs (or downloading them for free off the internet - which is why the "stop supporting eminem with your dollars" argument is problematic), but some people will continue buying or downloading his music because the message "you should be outraged" didn't speak to them. They might just like a good beat, even though they can clearly see the lyrics are messed up.
What do we do when not everyone is so quick to jump on one side or another, if outrage is the goal? And *should* everyone have to stop what they're doing to be outraged by eminem? We'd be doing an intellectual disservice to ourselves and to feminist movement if we didn't account for contradictions, for people who don't listen for the same things we listen for in music, or who don't get shut off by the same things.
Oh yes. Because there has been no expressed outrage about Eminem's misogynistic lyrics. Ever. Has his meteoric rise to fame not been accompanied at every twist and turn by protests and outrage concerning his homophobic, misogynistic, misanthropic, xenophobic lyrics?
That's rock and roll.
Personally, I'm not his biggest fan, and would love to see more bands like the Clash mixing it up. This generation's Clash seems to be Green Day. That's just a shame. That said, I prefer rap when it's in the vein of Jay-Z, 50 Cent, the Game, T.I., etc., in the same way that I prefer action movies to be violent, fast, and shocking. All these rappers are intelligent, well spoken, and completely entertaining. Their productions are top-notch.
This whole debate about feminist-approved music brings to mind the time, a few weeks ago, when Courtney was expressing her appreciation for Lady Sovereign, and she caught a lot of flak because of some perceived slighting of the likes of Roxanne Shanté and MC Lyte. Now I've listened to both of those artists since 1984 and 1988 respectively, and can say that recommending them is like recommending to a full grown adult, the music of Kriss Kross.
When people like Moby and GLAAD come out in protest of Eminem, I can assure you that it only results in greater album sales. Moby could probably lay a rightful claim to some of Em's royalties.
Oh, and your claim that "This whole fucking country would shut down" if in the lyrics "a girl were swapped for a boy" is beyond ridiculous. Please. Do you really believe that? Or is that just hyperbolic rhetoric? If it is, that's fine. I'm just saying.
Oh, and your claim that "This whole fucking country would shut down" if in the lyrics "a girl were swapped for a boy" is beyond ridiculous. Please. Do you really believe that? Or is that just hyperbolic rhetoric? If it is, that's fine. I'm just saying.
Yeah, you got me. Well, apparently hyperbole in music gets folks to voluntarily eat shit and then call it cavier. So I thought I'd give it a shot.
True. True.
completely agree with you EGhead. its impossible do be right (philosophically, logically, rationally etc...) if you contradict yourself- by definiton. period.
Men who are exposed to violent pornogrpahy are more likely to say women deserve to be raped. Music like Eminiem's is like violent pornography and contributes to a culture in which rape and violence against women is acceptable and normal. I wish that people would vote with their pocketbooks and not support artists who glorify rape and degrade women.
Joan
Sorry, what's byist? Google points me to Urban Dictionary, which says "part time bisexual". (I have my own theories about Eminem there, but I digress.) Is that how you're using it here?
I think a lot of eminem's lyrics are satirical. With the amount of misogyny that happens in hip-hop AND rock and roll, I feel like Eminem is the least of our worries. And yeah his new album is terrible...........
His lyrics in no way fit the definition of satirical. Unless you are willfully misinterpreting them.
Oh come on, he is making statements on hip-hop culture, and desensitization in general. I'm not sure how familiar you are with his work, but it is a common interpretation that he is attempting to be satirical. Whether you like it or not *and I'm not a fan to be honest* is another issue.
I have to somewhat disagree with your statement. Eminem has a definitely perceptible (to me) campy and kitschy element in his art. Do I think it's satire? Yes. Does everyone? Nope. But he has every right to make his music the way he sees fit, and we have the right to buy it or not buy it, or even protest it. I don't buy it. I don't protest it either.
I also don't buy the propaganda that's being spewed by BOTH the right and the left concerning any artist that is deemed to be "too destructive". That includes all art up to and including Norwegian Death Metal (again, I don't listen to it). I've had too many Christians try to censor what I listen to, to then turn around and take the advice of certain feminists who would have me believe that I've become so steeped in a culture of misogyny that I don't see it's effects.
That sounds a lot like what the right is preaching about how society has become so steeped in liberal and feminist values that it doesn't see the effects such as the high rate of divorce, crime, poverty, single mothers, and disease. Just because it has a "ring of truth" to it, doesn't make it true.
Who are we? The Thought Police? The left has it's propaganda, just as the right does. If not more.
I'm a tad confused here *You'll have to forgive me, I worked the graveyard shift last night lol* but you just accused me of not knowing what the word "satire" means *which is pretty rude btw and probably displaced anger, not to mention I majored in english* but then replied by stating that YOU DO view it as satire? I don't think there is one correct interpretation of lyrics, poetry, literature or anything artistic, but you seemed to have contradicted yourself. Or I'm just too tired to read properly.....which is entirely possible.
aw crap, yeah I was confused haha.
Sorry, ignore that last post!!
I need to stop posting things before waking up properly.
Quite all right! It happens to me, too. I agree that there is an element of satire in Eminem's music and persona. I have no qualms with what you said.
My issue is with what EGhead said about you being willfully ignorant, and that his lyrics are in no way satirical, etc. I recognize satire and shock-value in Em's lyrics. I'm not being "willfully ignorant". It seems, however, that EGhead is being "willfully declamatory". Ha!
Wow that's horrible, though I never really had any respect for Eminem in the first place. And I don't buy the satire argument...I've heard that used as a defense for many sexist and misogynist ideas and I'm not buying it anymore.
Yeah, I don't think it is exactly satire. I do think the hateful and violent lyrics are exaggerated/invented to shock people and therefor make him more popular by gaining him a lot of free publicity and popularity with kids and teens who see it as rebellious (even though in many ways it is actually conformist) or want to shock authority figures but to say it is satire is going too far. I always find myself as a feminist performing a balancing act of sorts. I will put up with some sexism in my entertainment but there is a point where the amount of sexism tips the scales to the point where I can no longer enjoy the artist, or at least certain songs of the artist. Eminem reached that point for me a long time ago. I like the sound of some of his older stuff but the lyrics ruin it for me and the sexism is so prevalent throughout all his music that I don't want to show support by purchasing any of his music even if I could get past the lyrics. I honestly think a lot of the critics avoid addressing the offensive lyrics of Eminem and others (though they have no problem commenting on lyrics by other artists that they find simply lame) because they think it makes them look uncool in a business where image and being hip is everything.
I do feel he is satirical. Does that mean it isn't sexist? of course not. But I do feel his intentions are satirical considering his use of offensive language directed at other things *ie, homosexuals, celebrities* are clearly not to be taken seriously. Just to clarify, I don't even like Eminem lol.
I have a much bigger bone to pick with Guns and Roses lol. They are completely serious, and even self-righteous and proud of their misogyny. Eminem is just making a sick joke. While the latter isn't excusable, the former is the root of a much bigger problem in my opinion.
I especially like this point, made by Katz, and it think it rings very true:
It takes no great leap of logic to see that sexism works in the same way. One need not argue that boys and men who listen to Eminem will become rapist-murderers in order to maintain that misogynous music and lyrics play an important role in legitimating men's mistreatment of women by making it culturally acceptable and even "cool" for men to express sexist rage against women and then hide behind the pretense that "it's only a joke" if anyone takes it too seriously. That argument has long been discredited when it comes to racism. What's the difference when the oppression in question is sexism, or heterosexism?
It doesn't even matter what effects his words have on male listeners. The point is that they are offensive, in and of themselves, to women and anyone else with a brain.
I think this is another way in which our culture expresses a desire to be violent against those who are perceived to be weakest. And like so much of our art and entertainment this song betrays the idea that violence is not a gendered act.
These songs are meant to be personal too. Thoughtful artists wish to resonate with the listener. Imagine if someone sang a popular song about forcefully shoving an object up a man's rectum or urethra with a snazzy catchy tune? What would the conversation look like?
He's a disgusting misogynist. And he regularly uses slurs on popular female artists to get himself attention, from claiming that a then-teenage Christina Aguilera gave Fred Durst and Carson Daly head to his constant namechecking and belitting of Mariah Carey, whom he insists he slept with despite her denials and no proof they ever dated. And I fail to see what's satirical or funny about calling Carey a "cunt" and a "fucking whore."
A lot of people don't like those minidress-wearing pop stars, so the public seems to think it's hi-larious when Eminem calls them whores, but it's still just the age-old tactic of using and silencing women by making mention of their sexuality. He reaps the benefit of the controversy he garners using their names, and then hey, if they try to protest all you have to do is remind everyone she's a "WHORE" and maybe claim you or your buddies fucked her for good measure.
People will go, "Oh, he insults everybody!" Well, he doesn't insult everybody by talking about raping them, killing them, and generally acting as though their genitalia makes them non-people. There's miles of difference between that and the "your music sucks and is tired, I'm gonna outsell you" shittalk that rappers throw back and forth. He accused Aguilera of whoring herself out because she was female and she existed. Or rather, she was female and popular, and therefore needed to be taken down a notch by the reminder that she's really just a dick receptacle. He's objectifying them just because he can, and because apparently his fans get some kind of charge out of demeaning language being leveled at random female celebrities (whom coincidentally are generally seen as sexually desirable. I guess they must be punished for looking desirable yet being unavailable). He's just like any other woman-hater who has nothing to bring to the table and so falls back on "Bitch, you just need a good fucking."
Having heard this album I have mixed feelings. Oh, no doubt Eminem is a misogynist who has problems with women.(And yes, I get that his Mom was abusive, but isn't the guy now in his 30's and more than able to afford therapy?) The song in question is chilling and also captures the mood of desolate areas in Central Park in the winter (particularly the north woods, which has had it's share of women's bodies turn up over the years.)This is a chilling tale that has all too much basis in reality. I suppose the questions are why he chooses to narrate it from the point of view of the perpetrator, at least in this instance. (In another track on the album he claims to have been repeatedly raped by one of his Mother's husbands, and narrates as the victim.)
At least I feel that the Central Park song is something that's meant to be scary, not something the creator thinks we all ought to be trying our hand at like the Stockholm guy seems to think.
You bring up a good point. Who is to say that the narrator in every song is meant to be Eminem himself? In terms of poetry, which I'm more familiar with than rap *so I might be reaching here*, the speaker of the poem is rarely the poet themselves. Of course there are a lot of Eminem songs that repeat his name over and over again haha, but thats an interesting thing to think about. Maybe he is being more critical of violence and misogyny than I previously thought. Something I want to look into anyway.
I suppose all the teenage boys who are his target audience and are giggling over what they think are "clever" lyrics about raping a girl with an umbrella are really feminists taking this as satire too, right? To figure out if something is satire you need to look at things such as how the creator of the art acts in real life and who the target audience is. Eminem has made enough sexist remarks in real life that I have trouble believing that his art is satire. I think sometimes when someone behaves in a shocking way that is immoral we are too fast to look for some deeper intention such as satire. I think Eminem writes the lyrics he does because, as I mentioned above, shock value has benefitted him. He is shocking and offensive enough to gain him attention but not so much that he is completely rejected by mainstream society because his music is reflecting exaggerated social attitudes that still exist in society such as sexism and homophobia.
I suppose all the teenage boys who are his target audience and are giggling over what they think are "clever" lyrics about raping a girl with an umbrella are really feminists taking this as satire too?
I know I'm going overboard on this topic oh, well.
But Thank you. People are missing the point, in my opinion. Seriously, I get that the world is violent and that our entertainment is going to reflect that to a certain degree as an outlet or expression. I'm just asking for a little bit more thoughtful consideration besides, "the hook is good and people don't really listen to the words"
Really, peeps?
For one thing, why are some themes so damn popular but not others? Why don't people want to hear songs about lynching and abortion? I know these songs have been made too, lol. But surprise, surprise the masses don't find that shit edgy and it won't be selling at Walmart, not even a "clean version".
And why exactly is rape and violence so shocking? It happens all.the.time. Ok so the music is satire now? Well then how about some clever little limerick about getting raped and shanked prison? Why not do like the porno and sing about Abu Ghriab. Hell enough shit went down there for 2 albums. Then we can all sit down and really discuss his cleverness, edginess and lyrical mastery, right?
I can see what you're saying - those other themes you describe aren't popular because they aren't part of the commercialized culture of hip-hop. I say commercialized because there's a lot of hip-hop out there that doesn't need some kind of sexualization of women to be accepted as "authentic" hip-hop, or just "good."
I think some of us are trying to get at why people listen to it - this is a much better route to me than saying point-blank that everyone needs to be outraged, and they better prove it. Some people don't have anything to prove - they like the music or they enjoy the culture. We can say what we want about that - yes, it's a problem that sexual imagery that compromises women's dignity is entertaining. Your analysis about that is totally irrefutable. But we absolutely must couple this analysis with something concrete to do about it, or else we will be in an endless cycle of trying to get people upset about something. Still doesn't speak to why they will ignore you and keep listening to the music. I'm not sure it's because they're sexist and they hate women - we haven't addressed the things in their lives at all. If we reduce all this to "it's sexist, period," we're bound to fail.
This other side of analysis, this something else to do about it, has to include some thought and consideration about people who are either "on the fence" about it (they might skip the most offensive songs when they're listening) or who listen to it freely, enjoy it because they think he's badass. In no way is that an excuse or some kind of untouchable barrier for feminists - but there seems to be some doubt in this discussion about whether those people actually exist. They do. Maybe it's not ethical, maybe a little chat might change their minds, but let's not re-create the mindset of people who don't like feminists very much who've told us many times that women's suffering doesn't exist.
For some of us, it's a yes/no. I will listen to this artist, I will not listen to that one. Not everyone has a philosophy that so clearly draws boundaries around what's egalitarian and what's not. For some of us on here, feminism was something that developed, not something that dropped fully-formed in our laps. And we need to think about how we reached this place, and also think about the intellectual privilege that brings us - how can we use it responsibly and productively?
***So to my last note - again, we need to talk about why people listen to him. Let's use some intersectionality. Eminem markets himself to lower-class whites (though I'm sure there are other groups that listen, too) - what does "equality for women" mean to men who are disempowered because of class? (because some of us aren't using intersectionality in this discussion). We need to use class analysis and ask why people might be drawn to someone who came from that background who has taken on a very masculine music form. This isn't to excuse the interest in eminem, or to say that overpowering women if you're disempowered by class is okay. But it's more productive than getting everyone to acknowledge "he's sexist, period."