Last Friday, 2012 Presidential hopefuls Mike Huckabee and Newt Gingrich attended the Rock Church conference in Virginia, presumably trying to boost up their appeal among the evangelical base. While Huckabee is already the darling of social conservatives, Gingrich had to up the ante to win them over (as he is well known to have serial adultery in his past).
As you've probably heard by now, in order to do so, Gingrich singled out the most destructive force in America today. Pagans. Really:
"We are living in a period where we are surrounded by paganism."
Interesting!
While we might be able to take some humor from this bizarre quote, there was one aspect of the conference that was not even remotely funny. In fact, it was downright alarming.
Attending the Rock Church conference was a man named Lou Engle, founder of “The Call”, a radical evangelical group. He prayed for Gingrich and Huckabee, actually doing the “laying of hands” on Huckabee, hoping that they are able to achieve success in “the lion’s den”.
Why is this frightening? Well, Lou Engle is part of what is called the “Christian Martyr” movement. If that name sounds alarming, the actual words of this man should reaffirm your fears. Check out this video of some of Engle’s “greatest hits” in the past:
As you can see, besides saying that they need to plant the seeds of “Christian martyrdom”, Engle also explains that God required the 600,000 deaths in the Civil War as repentance for the bloodshed by slavery. He then follows by saying that God requires bloodshed for the murder of “50 million babies”, today. Also:
“Do you know one of the names of God is avenger of blood? Have you ever worshiped that aspect of God lately?”
“God avenges blood. He does not forget the cry of the humble. And babies are the most humble people in the world. He does not forget their cry”
Do I even have to tell you how alarming these words are in the wake of the murder of Dr. George Tiller? In the wake of Tiller’s assassin saying from jail that more people are going to do what he did?
And Gingrich’s “pagan” quote sounds less like a silly pander, and more like a political dog-whistle when you look at this quote from Engle on the slaughter of pagans in the Bible:
"I believe we're headed to an Elijah/Jezebel showdown on the Earth, not just in America but all over the globe, and the main warriors will be the prophets of Baal versus the prophets of God, and there will be no middle ground," said Engle. He was referring to the Baal of the Old Testament, a pagan idol whose followers were slaughtered under orders from the prophet Elijah .
"There's an Elijah generation that's going to be the forerunners for the coming of Jesus, a generation marked not by their niceness but by the intensity of their passion," Engle continued. "The kingdom of heaven suffers violence and the violent take it by force. Such force demands an equal response, and Jesus is going to make war on everything that hinders love, with his eyes blazing fire."
The fact that two presidential hopefuls would actually seek the favor of a man like this, or perhaps even use dog-whistle code words , should be a wakeup call to everyone that this violent and extremist wing of Christianity is gaining power and is a serious threat to our society.
Last week, President Obama’s Justice Department convened a special task force to deal with possible violence to women’s health care providers in the wake of the Tiller tragedy. Let’s hope they come up with a plan. Quickly.
(h/t PFAW and troutfishing )
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I wonder how they define 'pagan'. Does that mean anything that is non-Christian? Or anything that is not Christianity, Judaism, or Islam?
I'm not sure how they define Paganism, but the technical definition is
a) following a polytheistic religion
b) one who has little or no religion
So, by all accounts, these guys are talking about the largest minority in the states and in Canada, and a quickly growing one, too. If only it would grow *faster* so that it's the majority...
I once read that non-pagan religions are ones which have a central message, (ie - Christianity's bit about Jesus being savior) and pagan ones are ones that do not have one. I don't think I'm expressing it perfectly - the more I try to remember the exact crux of the difference, the fuzzier my memory gets.
But I've definitely heard 'pagan' used to disdainfully describe anyone who isn't Christian, so who knows how Gingrich was using it.
The technical definition is non-christians.
The Latin word 'pagan' is the same as the English word, 'heathen'. It literally means a person from the country-side or from the colonies / frontiers.
As such it is a genocidal / imperialist term for the people outside or in the outskirts of Late Roman Empire / Christendom and later the English empire and other genocidal colonizers - the people who needs to be conquered and "civilized". Also the people within the conquered areas who have not yet been fully "civilized". Pagan simply means non-christian. The term pagan/heathen has been used in the genocide of Skandinavian and other non-christians in the early middle ages (800-1200), the Crusades against Muslims, Jews and others in the late Middle ages, the cultural and biological genocide of aboriginees in Australia, Africa, America etc. All these events were not only involved forcing people to embrace an alien religion (and other parts of the conquerors culture) but also plain imperialism and colonization - from the formula of the Roman Empire: The people in the colonies / conquered areas must not only submit to the empires political rule but also become "civilized" and embrace the culture and beliefs of the empirical rulers. A people is not truly incorporated into the empirical rule as long as they are "different" from the "true" citizens of the regime. It means: it is not enough that the "Whites" people take your land, if you want to live in it you too must become "white" or die.
There is no religion called "paganism". There are many pagan religions - what they share, what makes them pagan, is not being Christian. Paganism is "that which has not yet been fully conquered, the remains of a culture that has not yet been fully eliminated". It means that there is one true religion that must dominate the political area and crush alternative cultures.
...which of course means that Newt Gingrich does not believe in modern democracy, or the American Constitution. He wants an imperial theocracy.
PS. I'm not clarifying the word's historical connection with Christian, racist, imperialism and genocide in order to offend non-racist, non-oppressive Christians. It is merely a historical fact that "christianization" of "pagans" and genocidal imperialism has been closely entrenched for more than a thousand years - a fact which people who actually try to follow Jesus' message of tolerance should not be blamed for.
hmmm.. the video didn't embed for some reason.
You can view it here:
http://www.amplifyyourvoice.org/u/AFY_Joe/2009/6/8/Politics-Pagans-and-Christian-Martyrs
I don't understand "Christians" who believe that God needs blood sacrifice, and especially human sacrifice. According to the old testament God did totally away (basically) with human sacrifice starting with Abraham.He still demanded animal sacrifice though. And though God endorsed helping the Jews slaughter heathens that all changed with Jesus, as he was the ultimate sacrifice. There's no more slaughtering pagans y'all! Now you've got to turn the other cheek! Of course, bigots will always go back to the bloody old testament when it serves them, regardless of their supposed Christianity. Hypocrites.
I agree. I'm a Christian and it bothers me to bits when people pick and choose verses from the Bible to support their hateful and bloody agenda. Since I follow the teaching of Jesus only (who never supported violence) I just stopped listening to the spewings of so called "Christians" who preach hate not love. So the words of this so called Christian makes me laugh. However, they are also sad and scary. Such people give Christians a bad name. Most Christians from my experience are moderate,loving people (at least the true ones are) yet these loud, ignorant, and angry individuals attempt to speak for all of us. Makes me angry.
AND WHAT'S WRONG WITH PAGANS?
Not that I was going to vote for this guy,should he even make his way to the 2012 election, but as a pagan ... wow. Way to call my religion evil, Huckabee.
for sure!
Yeah, but part of me laughs when they call my beliefs ebul. Like with that whole "feminism/practicing witchcraft/becoming a lesbian" thing Pat Robertson cooked up in the 90's.
If we are surrounded by Pagans, where-
please forward this to Newt.
I am trying to find a Pagan group-it is
challenging.
Thanks, Kali
Seriously. Does he know how hard it is to find a group for hecatombs before sending soldiers off to war? And the cattle are so expensive...
You might try the listings on witchvox.com if you're looking for a Pagan group—they've got listings broken down by country, province/state and city. Good luck!
The heart of Gingrich:
A hard, black, smoking lump. It's
evil! Don't touch it!
The mix of politics and extreme religion in the US is kind of comical... It doesn't make very much sense, and kind of scares me, but since I'm far enough away its funny too. lol!
Seriously... ranting about pagans? god as avenger of blood??
If they tried to run with a major party in Canada they'd be laughed & eye-rolled back home.
In a study taken in 2007, 78% of Americans identified themselves as Christians of one kind or another. (Check it out at religions.pewforum.org.) Yep, they're absolutely drowning in Paganism of all types down there. *eyeroll*
And how is this different from a suicide bomber they seem to think every Muslim hopes to be? Oh yeah, IT'S NOT!
Technically, well in my experiance ( as a pagan for the last 12 years)
A Pagan is someone that follows a religion other then the People of the Book, and never followed the religions of The Book. (Abramatic faiths, Jewish, Muslim, Christian. Called "of the book" refering to the Torah,Bible or Q'uran)
A heathen is someone who once followed any of the Abramatic faiths, and turned their back on it to become pagan.
That being said, YIKES! Those guys a nuts, and should be treated like them! But a Christian could never be a terrorist. /snark
'Heathen' and 'Pagan' are the same word. Both literally mean 'a rural person' (of the heath) or a 'person from the outskirts of civilization' - and have for the last couple of thousand years (or so) been used derogatorily about people who do not share the mystical believes and/or rituals/traditions of the ruling "civilized" class. In other words, in a Christian context it means a non-Christian. Simply. Not a non-Jew or a non-Muslim, but a non-Christian. A Jew is also a 'pagan' (someone who has not yet been civilized/baptized).
Many many years ago the word pagan could also mean a person who did not share the pre-Christian Roman rituals and believes. But that is a very long time ago.
You kow I am totally sorry. I was thinking "heritic" not Heathen. you are right, heathen does equal pagan. a -heritic- has turned their back on Xtian religion. A heathen/pagan may have never been Xtian in the first place.
And yes I understand that heathen/pagan may be used by Christians to describe Jews or Muslims, but from a pagan prospective, Jews and Muslims arr not Pagans/Heathens, because they believe in a One True God, though may or may not believe in a massiah/prophet.
You kow I am totally sorry. I was thinking "heritic" not Heathen. you are right, heathen does equal pagan. a -heritic- has turned their back on Xtian religion. A heathen/pagan may have never been Xtian in the first place.
And yes I understand that heathen/pagan may be used by Christians to describe Jews or Muslims, but from a pagan prospective, Jews and Muslims arr not Pagans/Heathens, because they believe in a One True God, though may or may not believe in a massiah/prophet.