Here is an article about Clinton's speech at the Univ. of Delhi from the New York Times.
Unfortunately, I do not intend to highlight the good diplomacy undertaken by Hilary Clinton on her speech at the University of Delhi. I have to point out this statement she made:
"I eat way too much of the food at every chance I get," Mrs. Clinton said. "I have to go on a diet when I get back home, back to carrots and celery."
(OK side note - WHY the HELL did the NYTimes have to refer to her as 'Mrs. Clinton'?!?!?)
Really though? Even the SECRETARY OF STATE is required to make jokes about her eating habits...and indirectly, her weight? Great role model for young girls - eating carrots and celery after you've eaten too much - or more correctly, probably like a normal human being. This is crazy.
Even after all the great things she's done! Even during an important diplomatic event, which sparked serious thought and questions from the audience - someone even asked her if she thought her gender affected her candidacy for President. But we can't have a serious discussion with a woman in power without discussing weight. Without punishing ourselves.
Here's another excerpt fro the NYTimes:
"The state of women's rights worldwide remained a "mixed picture," Mrs. Clinton said, though for herself, she would never have predicted, as a student leader, that she would someday become secretary of state or seek to run for president."
But she did become secretary of state and she did have a historic run for president in the primaries. It may seem like an innocent, offhand comment, but the state of today's girls and young women cannot be joked about. The reality is many of us focus too much on our weight and not enough on our accomplishments. I know I do.
Reading what Hilary said (oh,excuse me 'Mrs. Clinton' - barf) really upset me. Ive been thinking a lot about this issue anyways - it's something I've struggled with and so it's something I want to fight so other women don't have to. And yet, the Secretary of State must diet when she returns home from a diplomatic trip.
It's all too much for me.
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I find it poor taste to complain about gaining weight in a country where a good deal of the population find it difficult to get enough to eat daily.
Focusing on the nomenclature issue:
It's worth remembering that, upon marriage, Ms. Clinton retained her birth name and only later changed it for political reasons. To the wiki:
"During her husband's campaign, Rodham began to use the name Hillary Clinton, or sometimes "Mrs. Bill Clinton", to assuage the concerns of Arkansas voters," cited with "Bill Clinton's advisers thought her use of her maiden name to be one of the reasons for his 1980 gubernatorial re-election loss. During the following winter, Vernon Jordan, Jr. suggested to Hillary Rodham that she start using the name Clinton, and she began to do so publicly with her husband's February 1982 campaign announcement. She later wrote that "I learned the hard way that some voters in Arkansas were seriously offended by the fact that I kept my maiden name" (Clinton 2003, pp. 91–93; see also Morris 1996, p. 282)."
Ugh.
That being said, I don't think we can blame the Times for "Mrs. Clinton;" if you google government websites for both "Mrs. Clinton" and "Ms. Clinton," the former is used far more often.
" Results 1 - 10 of about 340 for site:.gov 'ms. clinton'."
Results 1 - 10 of about 25,900 for site:.gov "mrs. clinton".
[Note that some of the "Ms. Clinton" ones are actually referring to Clinton, Mississippi, so it's even more lopsided than it looks.]
I failed to close the knot on what I was saying-- basically, if she refers to herself as Mrs. Clinton, as she routinely does on the secretary of state website and appears to have done while a Senator, it's hard to see on what basis the Times would insist on referring to her as Ms. Clinton. It seems to me that they should adopt whatever name she uses for herself, and from what I can tell, she goes by "Mrs. Clinton."
Phillip Corbett, deputy news editor at the Times, answered this question in a roundabout way a while ago. I found it when I wondered the same thing during the election when the Times referred to Palin as Ms. and Clinton as Mrs. It would seem by his answer that Clinton herself prefers the Mrs. prefix. Corbett's answer is below:
"Our style is to use “Ms.” unless a woman chooses to use “Mrs.” or “Miss.” That rule applies both to private individuals and to public figures.
Aside from these inquiries about “Ms.,” I’ve been surprised not to get more questions about our use of courtesy titles. After all, our continued insistence on Mr., Ms., Dr., etc., is perhaps our most obvious stylistic difference from other news organizations, which generally use bare surnames for second references to people. The Times’s style seems strange, at first, to every reporter or editor coming here from another paper…
Perhaps I’m tradition-bound, but this is one quirk of Times style that I would go to some lengths to defend. We strive for a tone that is literate, civil and serious: not fussy or old-fashioned, but also not chatty or self-consciously hip. It’s not an easy balance, and we don’t always get it right. But I think the simple use of courtesy titles — whether it’s “Mr. Bush,” “Mrs. Clinton” or “Ms. Rivera, a teacher from Queens” — injects a note of thoughtfulness and civility into our pages. Amid the daily cacophony, that seems a worthy effort."
The "Mrs. Clinton" thing is part of the New York Times's (and many other newspapers') style sheet... it's standard for them to refer to a public figure the first time with their full title, and thereafter by salutation. They do this for both men and women - and as "Mrs. Clinton" is Secretary Clinton's preferred salutation, that's how they refer to her.
From California Reaches Budget Deal, With Billions Cut:
While the Legislature pushed back on Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s proposal to eliminate health care programs. . . .
like shifting a payday into the next fiscal year, which Mr. Schwarzenegger had claimed he would not brook.
And from Obama Restarts Push on Health Care Agenda:
President Obama on Monday sought to push back . . .
To open a renewed push for health care legislation, Mr. Obama visited...
Yeah, that's what I was going to say - that's just how the NY Times does it. (I think WaPo and most other newspapers drop salutations and just uses last names). Since Hilary Clinton has been using the name Clinton for 20 years now, it makes sense that's how the NY Times would refer to her.
I understood the OP's point to be asking why they used "Mrs." instead of "Ms.", rather then questioning why they call her Clinton or why they use a title at all. I may have missed the boat on this one.
Because they were talking about Hillary Clinton and not Chelsea.
Yeah, so? Are you saying married women can't choose to use Ms.?
No, would you kindly quote anything I've said to that effect? My mom uses Ms., along with her original last name.
"Are you saying that married women can't choose to use" Mrs.? Hillary Clinton, after all, did in her campaign mailings. I'm going to go with the name she chooses, rather than what you might choose for her, it being her name and all.
How depressing that a woman as independent, successful and awesome as Hilary was pressured into taking her husband's name.
Sigh... even one of the most powerful, awesomest women in the US feels pressured to lessen herself by indicating that she needs to literally lessen herself.
PS Hey Steph
It's pretty sexist or something like it to assume Hillary Clinton was "required to make jokes about her eating habits...and indirectly, her weight". Required by who? Obama's the only one who can give her orders, and I doubt he gave her that one.
It's a well known fact that politicians and diplomats use food to pander to voters and visitors/guests. They eat a ton of food they would never choose (Obama with that hot dog? Kerry ordering a Philly cheese steak with swiss cheese?) and gain a ton of weight.
What is the problem with referring to SOS Clinton as "Mrs. Clinton"?
Editorial - Mr. Obama and Mr. Medvedev - NYTimes.com
Jul 4, 2009 ... Search All NYTimes.com. New York Times ... But Mr. Obama must do all he can to persuade Mr. Medvedev that he is playing with fire. ...
www.nytimes.com/2009/07/04/opinion/04sat1.html -
Editorial - Mr. Obama, Mr. Zardari and Mr. Karzai - NYTimes.com
May 6, 2009 ... Search All NYTimes.com. New York Times ... One of Mr. Obama's key tasks will be persuading Mr. Zardari and Pakistan's army chief, Gen. ...
www.nytimes.com/2009/05/06/opinion/06wed1.html
Just to bring this back to the original topic...
This is messed up. Just goes to show that even if you are as successful as you can possibly be, if you are a woman, you will still be judged by your body. And (here's the worst part) you will do it to yourself. Sure, if pressed, she might say she was "concerned with her health," but it's not about that.
I think this ties in with the fact that women also aren't expected to age. Part of that is gaining a few pounds. It's totally natural to be heavier at 40 than we are at 20. That's acceptable for me, but God forbid a woman gains weight as she ages!
She's not talking about starving herself to fit into a prom dress, she's talking about controlling the effects eating while traveling have on your body.
"And (here's the worst part) you will do it to yourself. Sure, if pressed, she might say she was "concerned with her health," but it's not about that."
Politicians lie and all, but when the obvious common sense answer is in line with her own statements, you could give her the benefit of the doubt.
I never thought I'd be defending HRC on Feministing.
"Really though? Even the SECRETARY OF STATE is required to make jokes about her eating habits...and indirectly, her weight?"
First of all, no one is requiring her to do anything and to imply that she is being forced to say certain things is an insult to her autonomy. And don't most people joke about how much food they've eaten after they've been traveling? When you're away from home you usually try tons of new food and eat at lots of restaurants, so I don't think it's outlandish to lightheartedly talk about how much you've been eating. I do agree however that it's not entirely appropriate for her to joke about dieting in a public interview.
"But we can't have a serious discussion with a woman in power without discussing weight."
Yes we can. You could have written a post about Clinton's speech and her diplomacy rather than writing about an offhand comment she made about how much Indian food she ate. If we want people to focus on people's politics rather than trivial physical traits, then why not take the initiative and have these discussions ourselves?
"I eat way too much of the food at every chance I get," Mrs. Clinton said. "I have to go on a diet when I get back home, back to carrots and celery."
IMO, the comment in itself is harmless. I see it as kind of a clumsy way of complimenting a country in which you are trying to maintain friendly, diplomatic ties with. And what better way to bond with people than to break bread with them?
Given Clinton's previous comments about weight, I can see how it represents a pattern of diet talk, though. Clinton was the first to require that White House menus also contain calorie counts and she's made comments before about dieting and weight-loss, most recently here in which she compares battling global warming to dieting. Women in the public spotlight are disproportionately judged and harshly for their bodies than are men, but don't think that male politicians don't get off the hook entirely -- just read here. I just hope Hils isn't serious about the carrot sticks and celery. I wouldn't want a hungry, food-obsessed woman brokering peace agreements with hostile nations.
"I wouldn't want a hungry, food-obsessed woman brokering peace agreements with hostile nations. "
That would be a great episode of 30 Rock.
Sorry to kick you when you're down, but there are two l's in Hillary.
OK I guess I just want a chance to clarify my thoughts:
I don't feel that me bringing it up means I am directing the topic away from the importance of her politics and diplomacy. As a woman who has struggled with body image, I found it really upsetting that the Secretary of State - a really powerful, successful woman - mentioned dieting on carrots and celery at an important event. By "required" I meant really that it seems like a rite of passage for women to talk about how much they ate and the diets they are going on - I've noticed it in my real life experience as well.
I didn't intend for my side comment on the way Clinton was referred to in the article to become such an important point. It was just something I noticed.
My point was really that I was hurt by Clinton's comment. If the secretary of state is worried about her weight, why shouldn't I be?
I was not attacking Clinton. I was criticizing a culture that makes it normal for women to suggest it's time for them to diet.
Because your job doesn't take you to state dinners all over the world that drastically curtail your control over what you eat.
You don't have to be secretary of state to have your food intake drastically controlled by external social pressures.
@Steph: I understand where you're coming from and I agree that diet talk and body hatred are sad rites of passage for so many women. In this case, however, I saw Clinton's remark to be more so of a tongue-in-cheek compliment to the nation of India. I'm sure Clinton is weight-conscious, but I don't think she would actually go to the extremes she joked about. In 2005, she sponsored a seminar convened by the American Psychological Association that raised the issue of how legislators and school officials may inadvertently be promoting eating disorders in their obesity-fighting efforts. The fact that the then senator would become involved in a campaign like leads me to believe that she is at least cognizant of the dangers that dieting poses, especially to children.
Just as an aside - the NYT style guide indicates use of Mr., Ms. and Mrs. as the default titles for people. Even the President will be referred to as "Mr. Obama." Unless Hillary Clinton has made her preference to be called Ms. known in a direct manner (which I understand she has not, as she sometimes uses Mrs. herself), journalistically they are perfectly within bounds using "Mrs. Clinton." She is married, and uses her husband's name as her official, legal last name. Now, why she uses that name is entwined in political lore, but the fact of the matter is that she does use it, and the NYT style guide indicates calling married women who use their husbands' names "Mrs."