For awhile on the Feministing community, I’ve noticed a great deal of commenting related to fandom. I think we all find ourselves enjoying different types of entertainment that call our philosophical ideals of feminism into question. I don’t feel like I have a lot of instances where my entertainment and social demands conflict; I insta ntly turn-off programming that heavily reinforces gender-normative roles, I won’t tolerate jokes from friends that inappropriately portray women or the LGBT community, and the final credits of The Hangover ruined the entire film for me. However, I love Lady Gaga, including her music, her method of performance, and her general persona.
I consider myself to be the type of feminist that doesn’t approve of images of beauty that reinforce unattainable, sexually-oppressive standards. I’m quick to label the behavior of women who engage in beauty-normative behavior as selfish or narcissistic. I am an anti-porn feminist, and that includes an opposition to strip clubs or even simple photographs in “lad mags” that don’t even include nudity. I also am opposed to images that reinforce sexual roles for women. I tend to follow Ariel Levy’s school of thought when it comes to “raunch culture.” While I know that sexuality is empowering for some women, I generally believe that the expectations that have been built up within raunch culture are just another slew of standards that keep women sexually oppressed. Women are often encouraged to be sexually appealing, but not sensual. The presentation of sexual behavior as enjoyable in ways other than fun, flirty, or cute are generally unseen in pop culture, save for a few daring women that people love to hate. This is where I believe Lady GaGa comes in, since her sexuality is usually self-appreciating and is often presented as unrelated to the pleasure of her male partner(s).
A combination of devil-may-care attitude and misandry, some of Lady GaGa’s messages seem to relate more to the pleasure and purpose of sex than attractiveness or appeal. Sometimes portraying herself as cruel or unfeeling, her lyrics suggest that she can enjoy sex in the way society has appropriated for men.
Here are some samples:
“I won’t tell you that I love you, kiss, or hug you. I’m not lying; I’m just stunning with my love glue-gunning.”
-Poker Face
“You’ve indicated your interest. I’m educated in sex (yes) and now I want it bad, want it bad. A love game, a love game.”
-Love Game
In the video for Paparazzi , GaGa is seen poisoning her boyfriend to regain fame and public interest. In a way, is this GaGa elevating a career above romance or simply elevating herself above her need for men?
In all honesty, I recognize the many ways that GaGa adheres to beauty standards and gender roles that are harmful to women overall, but I do question if her messages and personification of sex and lifestyle do anything to benefit women. GaGa has said, “ "It's all about starvation! Pop stars don't eat." However, she has also expressed her devotion to her career and rejection of priorities normally expected of women. Below is an interview in which GaGa expresses her desire for something different.
Is the work of Lady GaGa promotional of feminist ideals? Does it do anything to assist the progress of sexual liberation for women? Or is she just another pop-star? Does anyone else have a similar feeling or interest in other entertainers?
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Sorry! I think my link to the video didn't make it into the post. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZA0MtrwMD0
*headdesk*
Don't make the same mistake I did if your head or your desk can't handle that. I really do know better than to read youtube comments, but the morbid curiousity...
i watched her interview and i really believe that our daughter needs role models like her.
Giving the same amount of media exposure to young women involved in politic , science , philosophy or literature would be a waste of time .
Let's give politic and science to men . Young women don't need all this shit , what they need is more lady gaga , that's all .
Or, as an alternative, we could go for a wide variety of role models, women, men, househusbands/wives, scientists, musicians, etc etc etc, for our sons and daughters.
Her music doesn't suit my taste but I watched that interview and another one. She's a rather impressive woman.
You know, some daughters don't want to be pop stars. Some daughters want to be scientists and politicians and philosophers and writers and doctors and lawyers and astronauts and engineers. Seeing nothing but pop stars sends them the message that they're incapable of doing those things, or at least that they aren't allowed. It also puts an undue emphasis on superficiality -- you can be a lot of amazing things without looking like Lady GaGa, but good luck being another Lady GaGa!
At first I thought you were being ironic. Now that I realise you're not, I wish there was an 'I disliked this comment' option.
Ok, now I'm confused again. Your 3rd post on this thread has me reversing my opinion again. Your second one had me convinced that you weren't being ironic in this one.
I also love Lady GaGa and certainly wouldn't consider her liking her anti-feminist. She's certainly better than a lot of other pop stars.
Also, could you clarify this:
"I’m quick to label the behavior of women who engage in beauty-normative behavior as selfish or narcissistic."
Because if you meant that how it reads to me that sounds incredibly anti-feminist. But I suppose it depends on how you would define "beauty-normative behaivior" though I can't think of any sort of way a woman could look or dress that would automatically make her selfish or narcissistic without knowing her.
I suppose I should be a bit more specific so I don't sound like an asshole, but I still might -- a little bit.
I would think it selfish if a woman capitalized on her beauty in a way that was highly gender normative while realizing that her actions could be hurting other women. In that sense, I was recognizing that because Lady GaGa probably does realize that Western beauty standards hurt other women, she may be acting in a narcissistic manner.
Without debating your anti-pornography stance, Lady GaGa has posed in many almost-pornographic photo shoots. Here are two examples:
http://www.kanyeuniversecity.com/blog/index.php?em3106=236384_-1__0_~0_-1_7_2009_0_0
http://perezhilton.com/2009-07-06-gaga-goes-topless
Furthermore, what about when she said:
''I think it's great to be a sexy, beautiful woman who can fuck her man after she makes him dinner. There's a stigma around feminism that's a little bit man-hating. And I don't promote hatred, ever. That's not to say that I don't appreciate women who feel that way. I've got a lot of gay women friends that are like, 'Put your clothes on.' People just have different views about it. I'm not wrong. I'm free. And if it's wrong to be free, then I don't want to be right. Things are changing. We've got a black president, people.''
Liking Lady GaGa is NOT anti-feminist - but Lady GaGa is by no means a feminist.
Only prude don't like lady gaga .
Or people who simply find that style of music boring.
Or people who have good taste XD
I don't like Lady Gaga, not because I believe her to be anti-feminist, but because in some of the same songs mentioned above there are very negative portrayals of women. Paparazzi is more than a bit violent (has anyone noticed the dead women in some of the scenes, or the sex scene at the beginning??) and many of her lyrics are too. Sexual violence should not be glamorized in music videos.
I also absolutely love Lady GaGa. I get the impression that she basically she does whatever she wants, which sometimes falls into promoting porn-like ideals or stereotypes but more often questions or flouts them.
I never get the sense that she feels she MUST do anything, which I find very feminist.
I'm probably giving her too much credit, but I think the fact that she sometimes plays the traditional pop-star part makes the more numerous times that she bucks against it all the more interesting.
Overall, I feel like Lady GaGa is in on the joke and everything is playing a part for her. Its as if she's constantly winking at us for reading into things while at the same time provoking the conversation.
Intentional or not, I think she is awesome.
"I never get the sense that she feels she MUST do anything, which I find very feminist."
She sure feels , knows , she MUST , she HAS TO talk about sex , dress CONSTANTLY in extravagant style ( promote alcohol consumption )if she doesn't want to see her revenues drop .
In the end all this debate about ultra sexualized pop stars , male or female , is all about our impressive collective naivety .
I'm conflicted about Lady GaGa. I think her messages about being who you want to be and doing what you want to do are ones that don't get sent enough, but I don't always appreciate the messages her music sends. It bothers me that young girls (well, anyone, really) sing and dance to a song about getting so drunk you don't remember where you are ("Just Dance") and that "Poker Face" has a line ("Baby when it's love if it's not rough it isn't fun") that, to me, says that physically violent relationships are OK.
I'm a huge Lady GaGa fans and even though by no means I consider her a feminist, I do think that line in Poker Face meant rough sex instead an abusive relationships since she also made another song called I Like It Rough where she was talking about how she's into rough sex which I personally think it's totally okay and normal to be into rough and slightly kinky sex.
Also I'm not gonna lie, I'm in love with the song, Just Dance. And I've had those kinda drunk nights before were a lot of crazy things happened. I will never have those nights again but it's sometimes fun to look back on them and laugh which is why I like the song Just Dance. It's just one of those songs I can be like, "OMG I remember when that happened to me" in a way.
"Baby when it's love if it's not rough it isn't fun"
I always thought that line was about BDSM.
I agree, I've always had a sinking feeling that "Just Dance" is encouraging young girls to get so drunk at bars that they don't know where they are. And that is never a good thing. But the beat of the song is fun, so I tend to like her music and ignore the lyrics that make me uneasy. I do think she takes a strong stance about asserting herself in sexual situations, which is refreshing. But the focus on binge drinking in "Just Dance" does turn me off.
Well it just proves the point more that if you're feeling conflicted because she is writing and performing whatever she wants to then she doesn't really care what your opinion is, it would take alot more to stifle her or get her message in lyrics/videos changed.
The freedom and recklessness go together.
you might say it's wrong to glamourise sexual violence in music videos and that she should feel responsible but she's being touted for doing what she likes, that's how she's got where she is, so why would she stop now?
Lady Gaga said this in an interview
''I think it's great to be a sexy, beautiful woman who can f--- her man after she makes him dinner,"
and this
"There's a stigma around feminism that's a little bit man-hating."
source: http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20257096,00.html
(Entertainment Weekly Online)
I'm a crazy hard rock/punk/ heavy metal fan and I LOVE Lady Gaga's music. LoveGame is one of my favorite songs at the moment. However, Lady Gaga is extremely anti-feminist both in her music and as an individual. As I pointed out earlier she does not consider herself a feminist and adheres to traditional gender stereotypes ("making her man dinner after she f---s him"). The
majority of the relationships Lady Gaga sings about are incredibly heteronormative and are relationships where the woman is constantly trying to please the man. PokerFace is the exception to this rule because it is about bisexuality.
So yeah, I love Lady Gaga's music and have an enormous crush on her. But just because you like something and consider yourself a feminist does not make the thing you like feminist.
However, most pop/dance music is extremely sexist so I give Lady Gaga credit for her defying some gender standards. Mainly her ability to be bold and extravagant when women have been historically seen as being quiet and meek.
What i'm amazed at is the naivety of people toward lady gaga's intents and sincerity .
Let's get real here :lady gaga doesn't give a damn about any kind of feminist cause .What she only wants is to fit in the standards of hyper sexualisation to SELL her retarded music and to appeal to the masses of teenage women who have baught into the MYTH , the outrageous lie that the more sexualized they will be the more power they will have . Having more sex will make you have more sex . It's not the key to become a CEO .
Every second of attention teenage women give to lady gaga is as much time lost for their quest to conquer the world . But maybe i'm wrong . Maybe there's too many politician women , too many women ceo , too many women in science too many millionaire women . Maybe the only urgency is for women to be more sexual after all.
As much as I follow the work of GaGa, I had never heard that quote from her. I guess it probably got press before I took interest. Regardless, it does call me to question GaGa's level of education. Kate Winslet also denied being a feminist on the same grounds, and I suspect it is to preserve their image as someone who can appeal to men. However, if Lady GaGa is accusing us of misandry, I believe she's simply the pot calling the kettle black.
I think Lady Gaga is great and I was thinking about posting about her as well.
She's talented, smart (she studied music at NYU), and completely unapologetic for her confidence and sexuality. Here's her wikipedia page if you'd like to learn more about her: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_gaga.
While she may not describe herself as a feminist, Lady Gaga does whatever she wants and doesn't care about others' opinions, which is pretty damn empowering.
I don't like Lady GaGa, and I don't think she "does whatever she wants". She has very highly calculated image that appropriates and re-interprets many aspects of pop culture. In a lot of ways, she is the epitome of hipster culture.
Whether or not that's a feminist issue isn't really about that, though. But I would be highly skeptical about the "authentic" (whatever that means) sexuality of a highly visible pop start who relies on her media image in order to make money.
I like some of Lady Gaga's songs (I'm guilty of enjoying a lot of hipster bullsh*t) and she is definitely a foxy lady, but she is certainly not a feminist. Her public persona is clearly constructed, and like voluptuouspanic said, "highly calculated." She is causing a sensation and that is very good for her bank account, but you are not empowering young women by having a highly sexualized image and occasionally mentioning that you like to bang girls and you "love a girl in her underwear," at the same time trivializing same-sex interactions which reinforces the same tired "hot bi babe" stereotypes.
I believe that she is bisexual, because I'm not in the business of doubting anyone's professed sexual orientation, but she is deliberately causing social drama surrounding her sexuality. This does affect the public discourse around sexuality in general and bisexuality specifically, but it is not promotional of feminist ideals. I have no problem with a woman having a public sexual persona, and I am all about women's sexual autonomy and empowerment, but that is not what Lady Gaga is all about. She habitually reinforces sexual and gender stereotypes, no matter how foxy she is (it's hard not to swoon haha) or how catchy her songs are.
In conclusion, I prefer Peaches. Peaches is a truly kick ass lady and I'd recommend her music to anyone who enjoys Lady Gaga but is concerned about the same things I just mentioned.