When I got married eight years ago I did not take my husband's last name. I've only ever had to defend this choice of mine once, when my sister-in-law asked in a rude way. I don't care what other people choose to do with last names when they get married, I love hearing about all the things people come up with to answer the "name question." For myself, I knew I'd never take another person's name, or hyphenate.
When my son was born four years ago, my husband and I decided that he would have my husband's last name as his last name and my last name as his middle name. Recently we had another child and we switched it. Our daughter's last name is my last name; her middle name is my husband's last name. I know that this sounds complicated, but I know that children often have no problems with things adults find strange or difficult to understand. It works for us, it is a true expression of our feminism, no one's last name is "more important" than the other's. (Side note: who got what name wasn't related to the sex of the child for us. But I know people who have done that, girls have mother's name, boys have father's name.)
However, this choice seems to be costing us in the family relationship department. We had been on rocky ground with my husband's parents for a while now, but I have the feeling very strongly that with this last name thing, they might never speak to us again.
Sorry to go on about inter-personal stuff here, but it's occurred to me that choices we make as feminists with things as intimate as what we name our children can really bother people. Why should children automatically have their father's last name? I have my father's name and I'm fine with it, but I also know that at the time I was born, not very many people were questioning who got what last names. Wasn't a woman "keeping her name" so very radical once? Maybe it still is for some people? I won't mind whatever my children do with last names and children's last names when they grow up and maybe marry, have kids etc., I just hope that they give it thought and choose whatever feels right to them and not have it dictated to them by patriarchal social norms.
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You're cool parents!
I think what you did was great. Personally I don't think I would want to have children who don't have the same last name as me, which would basically force me to change names when I get married. But that's ridiculous. Why do children have to have their father's name anyway? That's actually the reason I don't consider it any more feminist to keep your last name than to change when you get married. Either way your just identifying yourself as belonging to a man. In the old days for women when you got married to only changed to show you belonged to your husband now instead of your father. I'd rather not belong to anyone, actually...
"Personally I don't think I would want to have children who don't have the same last name as me, which would basically force me to change names when I get married."
I'm a little confused by what you said. Why is giving your kids your current last name not an option?
I meant if I were to adhere to the "rule" that children always get their father's name.
I think y'all have a perfect approach to the name game. It's difficult to make waves with family, always, but remember that if your partner is willing to disappoint his family, then he is with you 100%, and in the end that's more important.
On a side note, my partner and I are exchanging names. I'm taking his last name as a middle name, and he's taking my last name as his middle name.
I'm proud that you're so easy going with how others decide to be called. I admit that I have a bit of scorn every time a girlfriend automatically takes her husband's last name. I'm not scornful if there was thought behind the choice, but if it's an automatic thing, I do. I try not to, but...
"On a side note, my partner and I are exchanging names. I'm taking his last name as a middle name, and he's taking my last name as his middle name."
I think that's really cool! :)
I still don't understand why people get so up in arms about other people's last names. How often do you even refer to people's last names, really? There were a lot of people in my life whose last names I did not even know until facebook, to be honest.
I was lucky to avoid most of this when I got married, as I married a woman (I'm Canadian), so there isn't really a 'right' way to do it. Anyone who asked seemed genuinely curious. We both kept our last names, and if we have kids, they will get hyphenated names (I'd love to do some kind of combination, but our last names don't combine very well).
My sister lives in Quebec, where most women keep their last names. Because they live in Quebec, her keeping her last name is the norm, so it's not questioned - no one has questioned her 'commitment' to her husband, or if he's 'less of man', or any of the things I've heard my friends here in Ontario being told.
"but it's occurred to me that choices we make as feminists with things as intimate as what we name our children can really bother people."
Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot lately ... and my question is, why? Why is it so furiously important to anyone what last name your kid has? Or how many names? Or what order? Or what name each partner has?
Different but related, when my spouse and I announced that our baby's name will be First Middle Mylastname Hislastname (I'm not into hyphens), my grandmother, whom I love beyond measure, sighed and said, "It's too bad there won't be anyone to pass on the family name." Um, hello, I'M passing on the family name, and I have seven nieces with my last name - they might do the same thing, or something even more bold and creative with their names! And who knows what my son will do with naming his children? I just hate the assumption implicit in such thinking that women in hetero-marriages are subsumed into their (male) spouse's families.
I'm not sure why 'passing on the family name' would be worth considering unless it was particularly rare. My and my mother's maiden names are both obscenely common in the area where we're from (to the point where it's not uncommon for a married couple to share the same name before the vows) so even as an only child it was never really in my mind. The only reason I still have my maiden name now was that our marriage was a bit rushed and I hadn't decided what I wanted to do yet.
I can understand your grandmother's thinking, though, considering her generation. My great grandparents gave all their children "Firstname Middle Herlastname Hislastname". However, since her last name wasn't THE last name, it's just drifted around the family as an occasional middle name instead of being passed down through the generations. (My family is chock full of rare/obscure names: I've often debated switching my name to my maternal grandmother's or greatgrandmother's, to reinforce the matrilineal lines).
True Story:
When I was in law school waaaaay back in 2004, I was in class having a conversation with a woman who was considering going back to using her birth name (little did I know it was because she was about to tell her husband she wanted a divorce). But anyway, I told her to do whatever she wanted. That it didn't really matter. Some other women chimed in and said that if you don't take your husband's name, it is as though you are not really married. These were women in law school!!!!! Mind you they were all from the south and that this was an HBCU (historically black college).
So if you are asking if people are still stewing about this...much to my surprise, this is still an issue.
Not to open a completely off-topic can of worms, but what does the college being historically black have to do with that?
You know, I've never really thought about this stuff before as to how it would apply directly to my family. That's probably because I am not yet married (or anywhere close) and I have one sibling (a younger brother) who is also nowhere near marriage.
But I do wonder now whether or not my father is concerned about this whole "passing on the family name" business. My brother is the only chance, traditionally speaking, for that to happen seeing as that I'm female. My father's siblings' kids (my cousins) are all already married and didn't pass on the family name (he had one older sister so she took her husband's name, and he also had one older brother but he had all girls and they married and took their husbands' names, so that's that). I've never asked my dad if anything of this matters to him. I would assume not because he's a pretty awesome feminist father in every way...but now I kind of want to ask...
(sorry if any of that was confusing :P)
My partner and I have agreed to do the same thing -- the first child will have his last name if it's a boy and mine if it's a girl, and then we'll alternate. After I decided I didn't want to change my name, I couldn't imagine explaining to my kids why they all had his last name and not mine, "Oh, well it's so that everyone knows you belong to your father, like property." So we're going to alternate.
My partner's mother is quite conservative, so I'm not sure how much she is going to like the idea, but I'm hoping one simple "I know that you can't possibly love your granddaughter any less because of her last name" will be enough to put an end to any questions.
I 100% agree. Who the hell cares and why are people so damn nosy?
Personally, I hyphenated my last name because I didn't not want to completely get rid of my own. I am proud of it so I wanted it to stay. As for my son, he has his father's last name and so will our future kids, if and when we have any. That's my choice though, not because we are giving into patriarchal standards. I have gotten gried from other feminists about his, as if having them take their father's name makes me less of a feminist.
Someone mentioned getting a bit upset when other's take on their husband's name. Which then leads me to ask, how is this any different from getting upset because someone didn't? It's not our names, so live and let live.
geez - typed too fast. That should say:
"That's my choice though, not because we are giving into patriarchal standards. I have gotten grief from other feminists about this, as if having them take their father's name makes me less of a feminist."
Someone mentioned getting a bit upset when other's take on their husband's name. Which then leads me to ask, how is this any different from getting upset because someone didn't? It's not our names, so live and let live.
I mentioned it.
It's other people's choice what they name themselves, yes, but it's an action like anything else. And when a person carries on the sexist tradition without any thought in their actions, it furthers that tradition and furthers the patriarchal society we live in. My real problem is with the brides who automatically just take their husbands' names.
it's not their business and how do they even know? Are they needing to use the last name when calling them over for a hug n kiss?
these are not people picking the children up from school or daycare...when and why would they need to use the last name?
I would let them know that if they insist on offering their opinions on my choices, I would do the same. I would let them know they should be prepared for an onslaught of research, evidence, stats about last name choices since the beginning of time.
or
Ignore them. They are entitled to their opinion. Thank goodness it is only opinion and not the law.
They found out with the birth announcement. Not wanting to escalate the already ugly we’ve got going on with them, I suggested sending them one with only her first name, but my husband insisted that they know.
But you’re right, it’s only their opinion and while it makes me sad that they are appearing to be super nasty over it, they live a thousand miles away and never have anything to do with our day to day life.
everyone else in both our families doesn't care.
it's not their business and how do they even know? Are they needing to use the last name when calling them over for a hug n kiss?
these are not people picking the children up from school or daycare...when and why would they need to use the last name?
I would let them know that if they insist on offering their opinions on my choices, I would do the same. I would let them know they should be prepared for an onslaught of research, evidence, stats about last name choices since the beginning of time.
or
Ignore them. They are entitled to their opinion. Thank goodness it is only opinion and not the law.
I have been pondering what to do about last names when I have children. My partner and I are not getting married (not legally), and I really don't want to give them hyphenated names. It'd be too long, I think. Can you imagine poor little Vincent Armedaeus Mylastname-Hislastname filling in tax documents? I also don't want to give them just mine, or just His.
So, when we have children, we're going to see if we can use my mothers maiden name as their last name. I find it aesthetically pleasing :)
My mom kept her maiden name, and my sister and I have it as our middle names.
My husband and I BOTH hyphenated our names so we have the same hyphenated last name. Yet some of my relatives sent us cards when we got married address "Mr & Mrs his first name, his old last name. Like, mr and mrs your husband. I think taking your husbands last name sucks and is patriarchal, but when people call you Mrs. John Doe - God! Talk about taking away your personhood!
I have no idea what I'm going to do about names when the time comes. I have had a hyphenated name for a while now (My mom's maiden name hyphen my dad's last name)
I discussed it with my boyfriend and he said he wants to keep his own last name. I said I wanted to keep mine too, or make a new one or something. And then he said he wanted out future kids to have HIS last name, which pissed me off. Soooo, hopefully by the time we have kids we'll have come to an agreement. N
I changed my last name as an adult, for a variety of reasons, to a name several generations back, matrilineally in my family. Of course it was her father's name, blah blah, but I can't really get away from that. Anyway, I have a name that is only mine. No one else in my family has this name any more. So my name is Aimee Lynn Mylastname.
My boyfriend is Anders Evan Momsname Dadsname.
We will both keep our names when we get married, and we're probably going to name our children Firstname Middlename Hismomsname Myname. Hisdadsname Myname sound weird together because hisdadsname is an adjective and myname is a noun. So... that's my solution, and it works for me.
I rather like the nordic (Icelandic?) tradition of naming the kids "BoyFirstName FatherFirstNames-son" and "GirlFirstName MotherFirstNames-daughter" I don't know what they do for marriages, though.
Taking each others' last names as your middle name is pretty cool too.
That is the Icelandic tradition, except they only use the matrilineal names in special circumstances; usually it's just FatherFirstName-son for both boys and girls. It does lead to a lot of people with the same name, meaning phonebooks have additional career information to distinguish names.
See