First I'd like to start by saying this post is not about abortion. I have never been in a situation where I needed an abortion and therefore I cannot talk about it as a personal experience. My post is however about women's reproductive rights and how we really have none. Like a lot of women on feministing I am under the age of 21. I also happen to have uterine cancer and PCOS or poly cystic ovarian syndrome. PCOS is a condition where you're body has too much testosterone and because of it the process of releasing an egg becomes complicated and can lead to scarring of the ovaries, fallopian tubes, and or uterus. The worse the scarring gets the less likely it is that you will ever be able to conceive. These conditions make it necessary for me to have a complete hysterectomy.
My insurance is willing to pay for the procedure but no doctor in the state will touch me because I am not 21. According to state law if you are under the age of 21 and female you are not capable of understanding the and I quote from the way the law reads "emotional impact that the removal of your right to have children has" the law claims that this is protecting women from their rash decisions to not have children. It also claims that if women have these procedures they are going to go into a terrible depression and will have to be permanently locked in a mental institution because women cannot handle not being able to have children. Most women who are having hysterectomies are doing so because there is something wrong enough that they cannot have children anyways. I have known since the doctors diagnosed me with PCOS that I was not going to be able to have children.
My reproductive organs are useless and yet I am not so depressed that I need to be locked away in a mental institution. This is just another law trying to force women into having children that they don't want and making the ones who need the procedure to save their lives feel guilty because they cannot bring children into this world. I'd like to know why our government seems to think that they know what I need better than my doctor and I do. I just don't understand why my uterus is anyone's business particularly the old men who sit in my state capital making up the crazy and ridiculous laws.
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this is awful and there are many silly laws which should be changed.
but i'm sure the law didn't quote that you'd go crazy and need to go to be permanantely locked a mental institution? that is embelishing?
i'm also pretty sure that it isn;t to force women to have children either, many things in the U.S require you to be 21 in many states not being allowed to touch alcohol and that is a league below having reproductive organs surgically removed, but obviously for health reasons in this case, this should be overturned.
It is called 'hyperbole.'
Joan
Wow, that's terrible. I've heard of problems like this before in the context of women who know they want to be permanently sterilized and doctors refusing to perform the procedure - but even if you think it's reasonable to prevent that sort of elective surgery for individuals under 21 (not for all women, obviously, but I can understand the whole "you need to be old enough to make this permanent decision") it's horrifying that they would prevent someone who needs this operation for medical purposes to obtain it. Anyone who's going to get their organs removed has certainly considered the risks and benefits and made the best choice - after all, there are plenty of minors who have surgery to remove/replace organs and no one says anything about that if there's a health issue at stake. I'm so sorry you've been forced into this position.
I don't see why the law would distinguish having a cancer-ridden uterus removed from having, say, a cancer-ridden spleen or kidney or something removed. A sick organ is a sick organ and unless it's one you can't live without they should be able to remove it as treatment at any age.
My advice to you is to find a lawyer willing to challenge the law and see if you can get it changed.
Unfortunately there are tons of of different laws like this in every state. I already know that I will never want to naturally have children (if I do, I will adopt one of the millions of parentless children). Yet, in my state, no doctor will tie my tubes unless I've already given birth at least once! My boyfriend, however, can walk into one of the dozens of clinics in this state that offer it and get a vasectomy cheaper, safer and faster than I would ever be able to get a tubal ligation. I don't want to keep taking hormonal birth control and I don't want the hassle and potential danger of an IUD.
Luckily, I have a feminist boyfriend who shares my my views on not having kids and is willing to get himself fixed for the benefit of both of us.
What, you are old enough to have cancer but not to understand the consequences of a medical surgery? *sarcasm*
That is compleate crap! Im so sorry you are dealing with that, you have a right to do whatever you want with your body, esecially when what you want is something that will increase your health and well-being. Hire a lawyer if you do not have one already, and see what you can get accomplished. Because this is an important medical procedure, I think a lawyer would be helpful. Talk to your doctor who reccomended the procedure also. Im so sorry this is happening to you. Please let us know what happens.
I am working on a blog post of my own chronicalling my fight w/ my insurance.
THey do not cover birth control and only 500.00 per year on women's health services.
This year, i broke my leg in january and through that treatment and care I maxed my 1000.00 ded
and my 1500 oop max... then in march i was
diagnosed with cervical cancer. I had surgery and underwent treatment . Of course only 500.00 of these services are covered. I am financially
devastated. I have filed an appeal and hope to one day make a little change.
Here in Oregon, the governer has recent signed a law to be effective in 2010 that all women and girls between the age of 12 and 25 be covered under their insurance for the HPV vaccinationsn. I am extremely grateful for this law but it's not enough. Your story confirms this.
My boss , 30 , married and in no want of children, ever, wants to get her tubes tied or some other form of permanent birth control but no doctor (she has seen more than 20) will recc. this procedure or help her. She has no right to do what she wants with her bodies.
I desperatly want our society to see women as MORE than baby making machines. There is NO debate about what men can do w/ their sperm. It is frustrating because the language of the women's right to chose arguments (on both sides) ultimately degrade women! We are human. We deserve to make choices about our bodies and reproduction in the same manner that a person can chose to NOT have life support if they are in this position.
AAAAAAAAArrrrrghhh.. :(
I wish you good luck. I suggest that you continue to fight for the procedure.
You deserve it. Women and girls in the future deserve for us all to stand up for this and lay done the framework for a NEW precedent.
Thank You
S
i just re-read this post. so many typos!
eeeekkkk
S
In OREGON? Wow... I'm not surprised about the insurance, but I am about the inability to get sterilized. Are you in Eastern or Western Oregon? I guess I wouldn't be so surprised about Eastern.
I was on another board where a woman who was 40-something with fairly severe endometriosis, and she couldn't get a hysterectomy, despite being in her forties and not wanting children. Her doctor said she'd "change her mind". This idea that women can't make up their own minds about what they want is infantilizing.
Yes it's quite disturbing, even in Oregon- a medically "liberal" state.
People can chose to kill themselves (medically assisted suicide) but women cannot chose to not have children.
I live and work in downtown Portland as does my boss. She has had no luck getting permanent birth control. It's caused depression because she Does Not Want Children.
She knew from a very early age that motherhood would not be for her. Not EVERY woman is born with a "maternal instinct" or "biological clock" that starts pressuring women to want children.
So sexist.
Wow. I don't doubt you, I just... I have a hard time believing it. I had a pregnancy scare so I checked, and there's like, 3 abortion providers in the Portland area... but no one who will perform a tubal ligation? That's INSANE. I'd talk to Planned Parenthood or something, because I'm fairly sure it isn't a law.
I've had discussions with my father. He finds abortions irresponsible, because he seems to think that if you use birth control you won't get pregnant. He also believes if you don't want kids you should get permanent birth control. It was a REAL eye opener to him that some doctors wouldn't perform the surgery. He still seems to believe that the attitude of not performing them is confined to the more conservative areas of the country. Heck, to some degree, I thought that!
Sorry for the ramble... your post just cause a huge shift in my thinking.
I agree with you! Including the 3 metro area planned parenthoods, there are 6 different places to get an abortion.
As a matter of fact, there is a Women's Health Clinic on the 9th floor of the building I work in, which provides Plan B for $20.00 (thank heaven) and abortions and counseling services to women who otherwise cannot afford it (there cost is about half of what an abortion costs elsewhere, about $250.00)
After I read your comment innitially yesterday It dawned on me that THEY may be able to help. I ran up there after work and got a (small) list of physicians who may be able to help my Boss. She is stoked that I walked in here this morning with that list!
It is correct though that OBGYN'S and general health practicioners (sp?) would not help her obtain or perform permanent BC.
-S
My insurance company has said they will cover an out of state procedure if the other treatment does not work. I feel very blessed to have the option available to me if it becomes necessary
On the men/sterilization thing - my boyfriend talked to his doctor at one point about a vasectomy, and says he received NONE of the type of "counseling" women are required to go through. Granted, he and his now-ex had one child, but he said it was never even suggested that he should "think about it." He was horrified to find out that women are sometimes denied an equivalent procedure.
These procedures are not strictly illegal though and are not frowned upon by society just vasectomy is easier than tube-tying and sperm can be preserved and stored more effectively than eggs can
it isnt institutionalised sexism.
Just thank your lucky stars you don't live in a totalitarean state.
I think any law that denys women the right to choose what to do with their body when it doesn't deny men that right is sexism. Sure the procedures aren't illegal, but men under 21 have no legal barriers to getting a vasectomy, while women have a barrier to permant forms of birth control. That is sexism.
And your last comment is quite ignorant; just because I don't live in a totlatarian state, I should be greatful and thankful and not protest injustice? Really? Really?
Joan
I personally know 2 young men who had vasectomies in their early 20s. (At least that's what they said; they had no reason to lie to me, I wasn't their girlfriend.)
Joan,
what an excellent point- thank you.
S
"Just thank your lucky stars you don't live in a totalitarean state."
yeah, remember women are lucky we even let them use contraception in the first place.
*end sarcasm*
but, in all seriousness, WTF?
That was extremely unhelpful. She has uterine cancer and she's been told that it's necessary for her to have a complete hysterectomy. Depending on the stage that her cancer has reached, her chances of survival might not be that great by the time she turns 21 and a doctor might be willing to perform the procedure which could save her life.
But she should be grateful that she doesn't live in a totalitarian state. Right.
I am so sorry this is happening to you.
The law of whatever state you are in is fucked, and I'm sorry that you are not getting the help and support you deserve from medical professionals and the state. I send my best wishes that your health will improve.
Which state is this? Since when is having children a right? Seems to me it's a biological determination. Do your doctors have an opinion as to how not removing your uterus until you are 21 will affect your cancer. I'm not a lawyer, but I'm almost positive this would be case you could win.
As unbelievable as this story is, I'd like to point out that PCOS alone does not preclude one from having children. In fact, it is estimated that 10% of all women have PCOS, most of them without even knowing it. It can make conceiving harder than otherwise, however diagnosis of PCOS does not come close to meaning you can't have kids. I've been diagnosed with it as well, and none of my doctors have suggested I won't be able to have kids, and I know other women who have easily gotten pregnant more than once despite PCOS. I just want to point this out for readers who may be in the process of diagnosis and not know all the facts.
I would be interested to know what state this is. I can only practice in my state (NY), but there may be an exception for health issues that isn't immediately obvious from the text. If you don't mind sharing, rmanning, I would be happy to do a quick read-through of the statute and search on your behalf (this wouldn't be a lawyer-client relationship, I would just be making general comments and we could see where things would go from there).
that is so disgusting and yet so not surprising. thank you for bringing to light reproductive rights issues that aren't just about abortion. many mainstream feminists tend to forget that reproductive health goes far beyond the abortion debate.
Two things to do:
1) Check with your insurance company about receiving out of state coverage for the surgery
2) Contact the ACLU
I was going to also advise her to contact the ACLU and perhaps Planned Parenthood.
Planned parenthood also can only operate under state laws. I have contacted them and they did help me fight for the procedure to be covered in another state though so thank you
It's good to hear you had already pursued that option. When I think of anything health related for women, I think of Planned Parenthood for options. They're a huge organization that have stood up in court -- even the SCOTUS -- so, I figured they could possible do more.
However, it's excellent they helped you get the coverage you needed.
The reason why I say contact the ACLU is because any law like this is clearly a violation of a constitutional right to life. The case would be very easy to make. Planned Parenthood can't do anything but advise, whereas the ACLU can take action to get the law changed.
Rmanning: Wow... this is your health and life they are jeopardizing; it's not like you want to sterlize yourself on a random whim! I think you have some nice grounds for a human rights case...
Come visit us in Canada; straight north on the Pacific Coast, the very liberal province of British Columbia would likely help you out if your state doesn't smarten up soon; the hospitals here would probably perform the surgery for free too.
On another note: Why do people seem to think that getting a hysterectomy "destroys" the chance for a woman to have children? It's called ADOPTION and from what I've seen, it doesn't appear to be any less life enriching as squeezing an infant from between your thighs (less stretch marks, mind you).
my brothers are adopted.
I agree with your post.
Thank You. BC rocks! Although I haven't been in about 5 years :(.
Its only a 6 hour drive from here though!!!
LOL
S
This biased notion that if it's not from your organs, it's not your child.
It's completely dehumanizing bullshit, ethically dubious and morally wrong, but that's the under current attitude.
I would much rather people adopt more children than they create. So many children and so many people wanting them. IT always boggles my mind.
As someone from a family with a history of adoption, I find it EXTREMELY offensive when people imply that non-bio parents and children are not "really" related. My poor boyfriend fell into this hole once, when in a discussion about my family he mentioned my "real grandmother" aka my dad's birth mother. I told him that my real grandmother is the woman who raised my father. He felt really stupid and apologized. He's usually really sensitive about things like that, so I know it was just a slip.
If as an adult you can consent to the trauma of fighting in a war, you can definitely consent to the trauma of not being able to have biological children too. No matter what's the reason for your decision, but especially when health is the reason they should understand it.
IMO woman should be able to choose sterilization at any age for any reason. Not only she knows what she's doing (legally she's an adult, what else do they need?), she also IS able to "change her mind" (adoption). By the way, I'm pro-life (and feminist, duh) and I honestly don't know why conservatives want to outlaw things completely irrelevant to "pro-life"... Sterilization, birth control, comprehensive sex education... heck, even so many things concerning GLBT people. All of these issues are about controlling lives of adults and teens, not protecting the youngest forms of human life. Fortunately there are a few - too few - organizations (like PLAGAL or Non-Violent Choice) that agree with me, but the mainstream "pro-life" movement has some priorities and motivations so creepy and sometimes plain vile (murdering in the name of life) that saying "I'm pro-life" feels like reclaiming an offensive term.
I have a friend who has needed a hysterectomy for years, (also for PCOS) but similar laws here are preventing her from getting it. She turns 21 later this summer, so at least she only has a few more months to wait...
It is disgusting that there are laws like this at all.
Sickening law.
Just because we are under 21 doesn't mean we don't have the maturity to have a hysterectomy? That's BS.
Is there any way to get a doctor to certify that this is not an elective procedure for you, but a needed therapeutic one? In any event - geesh, what a paternalistic law. At least in my state, age 18 is when people are legally able to consent to medical procedures, sign contracts, vote, enter the military, accrue debt in their names and otherwise be adults.
A good friend of mine had a hysterectomy in her 20s due to severe endometriosis. She had to shop around with a couple of doctors, but didn't have too much trouble finding one - of course, she was also 27. They wanted to give her an ablation at first, which would have rendered her infertile anyway. She pushed for them just to go ahead and do the hysterectomy, rather than doing one procedure only to probably have to do the hysterectomy in a few years anyway.
Another woman I know, in her 30s, had trouble finding a doctor to give her a tubal ligation. She and her husband had decided together that they did not want children, yet doctors were having hissy fits and refusing to sterilize her. Methinks they wouldn't have given her husband the same flack if he asked for a vasectomy at 35. She finally found a (female) doc who would do it, though.
I think it's pretty funny that some doctors will deny contraception to unmarried women, then also deny sterilization to unmarried ones.
Yet another example of how blanket laws about reproductive health restrict things they didn't think about. I tried to convince my husband to get a vasectomy when I was 22 or 23, and I'm 27 now and plan on making a baby quite soon.
Just thought I'd share that people do change their minds.
One thing I love about this post is how it gets at the strange absolute rhetoric that pro-choice folk tend to use about controlling our own bodies. Of course we don't have control over our bodies. We can make some things less likely or more likely, but people get sick no matter what. It's a crappy reality to face, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't get to make the decisions that are actually in our own hands.
As for advice, I'd suggest contacting your state AG. I don't know what kind of horrifying legal battle that might put you in the middle of, but you're kind of in one already.
Thanks so much for sharing - I'm so sorry that this happened to you.
Of course we don't have control over our bodies. We can make some things less likely or more likely, but people get sick no matter what. It's a crappy reality to face, but it doesn't mean that we shouldn't get to make the decisions that are actually in our own hands.
But that's just the thing. She isn't talking about having control over illness or disease, she is talking about wanting to remove a cancerous organ and having the state tell her that she is not old enough to make that decision. The state is exercising unnecessary control over her body by telling her that she is not capable of making this choice - this is a decision that SHOULD be in her hands but ISN'T. As someone already mentioned, would they say the same thing if it was a cancerous liver or spleen, instead of her reproductive organs?
RE: "People do change their minds." That is why it is important to make an educated, responsible decision before going through with surgery. Do you really think that women would have hysterectomies on a whim?
Just thought I'd share that people do change their minds.
My husband and I are childfree by choice, and I am lucky enough to have a staunchly feminist OB/GYN who didn't even flinch when I said I was ready for a tubal ligation at 29 years old.
I often hear concern that a woman such as myself will change her mind later, wish she could have kids, and regret her decision to be sterilized. I find that attitude incredibly insulting, as though I don't know my own heart, as though my desire to not have children is somehow incorrect, and eventually I'll realize the error of my ways.
I don't often hear the same concern for men who choose a vasectomy without having kids first. Although I did once hear of a father of three with a fourth on the way who was considering a vasectomy, and his wife's doctor said that if he were a urologist he wouldn't perform the vasectomy because they guy was under 25....never mind that he already had 3 kids and another on the way, he's not 25 yet, he must not truly understand the ramifications of such a decision.
I also never hear anyone express concern that someone will have a child and then change their mind and decide they don't want one after all.
This does not surprise me with the laws. I know of a state where a couple wanted to have IVF treatments to have a child due to a previous tubal ligation and the physicians would not do it because the couple was not married. Which the woman ended up having tubal reversal surgery performed at Chapel Hill Tubal Reversal Center which was outside of the couples home state. Not only was it cheaper but the pregnancy success is much better.
There are people that change their minds but they should be the ones to make the decisions and not the government.
I would start by asking the physician if there is anyone else he/she can suggest to contact.If this does not work then I would be searching quite a bit. The answer is out there somewhere.
Keep us posted!
Thank you all for the kind thoughts. I am the one who wrote the post since my user name is what comes up on my blog and my real name is what comes up on the comments. I went to the doctor today for my reevaluation of treatment and she said that I am in remission. I am so greatful for all of the advice and support. As far as contacting the ACLU or the AG or any other attorney for that matter, this is not a cut and dry case. There is no way the dumb asses who work in my leg and court system are going to let this go without a fight. If all of this was started now, it would probably be until I am in my thirties before the case was settled. The amount of religion that is allowed to play a role in the way my law is written in this state is absurd. Again thank you for the support. Hopefully the cancer won't return again.
I'm so sorry about what's happening to you. You make an excellent point that law - especially regarding women and reproduction - is often paternalistic to the point of absurdity, when all circumstance and context gets thrown out the window, as in your case. I have to admit, I'd probably be more flaming pissed off about it than you are, it seems like such obvious gross injustice to me. The general public needs to hear more stories like yours. Pro-choicers and anti-choicers and religious wingnuts alike need to hear stories like yours.
What you say ties into many other debates over bodily integrity, such as the euthanasia/assisted suicide debate. I was thrilled when one of my students writing a paper on assisted suicide mentioned to me one day that he never realized how tied up it was with abortion, that they both share these issues of sovereignty over one's body, how creepy it is to realize how little power people actually have over their own bodies/health, and how much creepier it is to realize who HAS that power. He got one of the few A's in my class. :o)
The point that people need to hear stories like mine is why I put it on here. I had been debating with myself for three months whether or not to speak up and say something about it. What finally pushed me into writing it was the comment that my oncologist made to me. The day that I wrote it was one of my last treatment days. I was ecstatic that I was almost done with my treatment but very nervous that it wasn't going to work. The nurse turned to me and said the rudest thing I think I have ever heard from a nurse. She told me, well at least you can have an operation, its not like you are terminal or anything so why are you worried? That got to me on many levels. First, no one knows whether the cancer is going to kill you or not. Second, what gave her the right to tell me what I have a right to be worried about. And third, I think was justifiably nervous. Thanks to thelaw if it hadn't gone away I was going to have to have a major surgery in an unfamiliar hospital, in a state I do not live, at the hands of doctors and nurses I have never met, let alone know whether or not they should have their medical licensing. It got me mad enough to write about the laws. The more I think about it the angrier it makes me. I hope by speaking out someone else will read this and speak out about these kinds of laws as well.