As I near the official end of my teens (to the immense chagrin of my older sister, who claims she's not old enough for me to be twenty), the prospect of becoming a bonafide adult keeps encroaching on my consciousness.
But what does it mean to become a female grown-up in 2009? I've always assumed that 'growing up' mean settling in to who you are. For women, though, it seems that 'growing up' means finding more and more things to worry you when you look in the mirror.
A few days ago, I looked in the mirror and noticed for the first time in my life that my face was, gasp, shiny! Now, not too long ago, I don't think I would have noticed if my face glowed in the dark; the shiny-to-not shiny scale of beauty was not one by which I measured myself. Hell, as a ten year old, I *pursued* shininess, with the aid of massive quantities of $2 body glitter. Yet here I was, seriously considering spending money I don't have to defeat the (completely natural) presence of oil on my face. I guess this is part of being an 'adult.'
It's not that this is all that sudden; I think I just started noticing it. Through the years, I've constantly been told that 'it's time' to start adding this or that to my morning beauty routine, as though each addition were some important ritual of aging. "It's time" to start shaving my legs, using concealer, styling my hair, wearing fashionable shoes, etc. I've successfully ignored most of these warnings until recently, when the specter of adulthood has taken over my brain. I look in the mirror and I can't see an adult. Somehow, I've subconsciously accepted that while natural (read: frizzy) hair and shiny skin are acceptable for kids, grown-ups use expensive glossing and skin-"care" products (key word: expensive. Ah, capitalism).
I consider myself a feminist, but damn if it doesn't bug me every time I walk into a meeting, or even go out with friends, and realize I'm the only female not wearing make-up or heels. Did I miss that class during sex-ed? Did puberty forget me? Why am I such a kid?
There's nothing particularly profound in this post, but this has been on my mind a lot recently. Thus, I leave with my Women's Studies Professor's favorite quote: "It's hard to fight an enemy who has outposts in your head."
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You think shiny is bad, just wait 15 years until wrinkles crop up - and your skin is still shiny!
Did I miss that class during sex-ed? Did puberty forget me?
I think I missed the same memo. Especially the one that says the solution to shiny-face is some ten-dollars-an-ounce "beauty" concoction, instead of, y'know, soap.
But I think I also missed the memo that the minimum standard of professionalism for adult women is high heels, makeup, perfectly-styled hair, shaved legs, and form-fitting (but not too low-cut! good heavens we wouldn't want people to get the wrong idea!) clothing. I'm still stuck in the childish delusion that the minimum standard is wearing clean business-casual clothing and maintaining basic personal hygiene, i.e. the same standard as for men. :P Please nobody take it upon themselves to disillusion me, I'm sure the world will do that just fine on its own.
Yeah, your childish delusion is actually correct. Most of the women I work with sure as hell don't wear makeup. High heels, maybe, yeah. Some. But those are just shoes. Despite what the paranoid hive Feministing would have you believe, you'd be fine. No one cares.
How cute of you to assume it was the paranoid feminist hive mind giving me that idea, rather than the fact that I have eyes and notice that most women I see in professional contexts are far more made-up than I could ever stand to be on a day-to-day basis.
Interesting, because I have eyes as well. Maybe you work in a vastly different environment. Or maybe- just maybe- these women choose to apply makeup on a day-to-day basis, just like I choose to go to the gym 5 times a week.
I think this is partly a miscommunication here. My guess would be that cank is thinking "men don't think of make-up as professional," or similar and so has concluded that it's paranoia on the part of feminists. I think cank has made the classic mistake of forgetting that women also enforce patriarchal standards.
The professional make-up standards forced on women are predominantly enforced by other women.
Most men don't consciously think of make-up as professional, some of them might not even notice if you're wearing it or not. The message that make-up is professional, when it is voiced is done so by women. This is not the usual way the patriarchy acts. But it is the patriarcy's way of saying, when you are in public you are representing women and you should present 'this face'.
You never hear a man say anything like 'You really should wear concealer at work.' Largely because they aren't allowed to know what concealer is. They are taught not to have any knowledge of make-up. Sure, some/many might think it makes a woman look more appealing, but they won't equate that with business unless the woman in question is supposed to be the face of the company or something. Even then they may say to 'look more professional,' without actually twinging to what about your appearance isn't "professional."
"The professional make-up standards forced on women are predominantly enforced by other women."
"You never hear a man say anything like 'You really should wear concealer at work."
While I'm sure this is true in many situations - and I agree that often it can be women enforcing the so-called make-up standards, this does not discount that *historically* men did begin this trend by requiring blush and lipstick of secretaries in the 50s, etc. And that has to count for something - even if the process has been inverted somehow or if women have begun to enforce these standards as well, historically, women wearing make-up at work as a way to appear "professional" is rooted in male direction.
Also, I think maybe men don't suggest wearing concealer, etc at the office, but in my line of work I have certainly been told to "put on some mascara and lip gloss" by my male boss - as a bartender. I would assume that women may also hear this as waitresses, flight attendants, customer service positions, salons, receptionists, etc - I'm sure there are more. Maybe it's not pc and maybe it doesn't happen at certain places and levels of emplyment (from the men) - but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all because it's happened to me. (even more surprising, I am a woman who likes to wear make-up and when I was told that I already had both mascara AND lip gloss on! But my boss thought it wasn't enough apparently.)
Anyways, I think all the points you made about women enforcing these standards are right - I just wanted to point out the history and also that it hasn't shifted exclusively to women - these standards *are* still being enforced by men.
This is why wearing make-up is a political act, and why wearing lipstick will be an endless subject of feminist examination. Some women DO NOT have the choice to go without make up. Every time a woman who does have the choice chooses to wear make-up, she normalizes the wearing of make-up and makes it that much harder for other women to opt out. Welcome to the Patriarchy.
Not wearing make-up is also a political act, btw.
" Every time a woman who does have the choice chooses to wear make-up, she normalizes the wearing of make-up and makes it that much harder for other women to opt out. "
As much as I appreciate your personal sentiment, I have to say it makes me very uncomfortable that you are suggesting women like myself who like to wear make-up are responsible for the normalization of it in society. Yes, I am "forced" to wear make-up at work as I stated above. But I also wear it when I'm not working because I *like* make-up!
And yes, this is an endless debate within feminism and there are many sides that I can see as valid. I don't want to invalidate yours - wearing or not wearing make-up CAN be a political act, yes. But it can also just be a personal preference and I don't think it's right to hold someone responsible for the way others may perceive their personal choices.
I've always viewed the use of make-up as a tool used to induce positive responses from those you meet.
I too use tools to change my appearance in-order to ellict positve reactions to my presence. I normally hate shaving and try to avoid it when possible and prefer to wear glasses, but sometimes I need to look "presentable" which I then go to the extent of shaving, putting in contacts, and putting on a suit, because I want the positive response that I can get when I'm "normalized" to what people want and expect of me.
I'm perfectly happy in my concert t-shirt, ripped jeans, and glasses, sporting four days of stubble, but too many people react negativly towords me when I show up like that for work.
"...Some women DO NOT have the choice to go without make up. Every time a woman who does have the choice chooses to wear make-up, she normalizes the wearing of make-up and makes it that much harder for other women to opt out. Welcome to the Patriarchy...."
Technically speaking, every time another woman who does have the choice of either:
* not removing her facial hair, if her face already grows a beard and moustache naturally
* taking whatever hormone drugs she'd need to grow facial hair, if her face doesn't already grow a beard and moustache naturally
* or at least wearing niqab to hide whether or not her face already grows a beard and moustache naturally
instead chooses to display a hairless chin and "upper lip" in public, she normalizes having a hairless face and makes it that much harder for me (an Iranian-American who has PCOS) to opt out of my daily routine of:
(1) shaving the thinner hairs to save time
(2) plucking the thicker hairs since what a razor would leave in their follicles would show through the top layer of skin
(3) applying makeup to buy more hours before the stubble shows again
(4) trying to save up for yet another laser treatment
Meanwhile, I still don't want to accuse those women of making it harder for me because that would be a racist thing to do! The problem is the stereotype of beards and moustaches being only for men (as if us women who inherited them aren't female enough). The problem is not women whose foremothers were Chinese or Swedish feeling comfortable with looking Chinese or Swedish instead of taking drugs to look as though they had Iranian or Mexican foremothers instead.
It should be possible to analyze how voluntary compliance with a particular aspect of compulsory femininity affects other women who lack the opt-out choice without having to go into detail on every single aspect of compulsory femininity. Since it is not, I will state that yes, your removal of your facial hair makes it that much more difficult for other women who have facial hair to opt out of removal. The more women who walk around with visible facial hair, the easier it will be for all women with visible facial hair to stop removal.
The place where visible facial hair removal departs from the wearing of make-up is that there are NO women (in my culture) who have the option of walking around with a beard. Any woman who walks around with a beard in the US will be stared at at best, probably be on the receiving end of multiple rude comments from strangers, and maybe even be assaulted for having facial hair at some point (think that's unlikely? you were clearly never assaulted for looking different.). A choice is not truly a choice unless it can be made without fear of harassment, violence, or docked pay.
On the other hand, there are plenty of women in the US who have the option of never wearing make-up. Those women who are able to opt out but continue to opt in make it that much more difficult for other women who do not have that choice to gain it.
"It should be possible to analyze how voluntary compliance with a particular aspect of compulsory femininity affects other women who lack the opt-out choice without having to go into detail on every single aspect of compulsory femininity..."
I sure wasn't trying to go into detail of every aspect of compulsory femininity. After all, there are a ton of details I left out!
I was showing one example of how, in at least one case for many women, loving at least one aspect of the way one's body is naturally and showing that in public is voluntary compliance with a particular aspect of compulsory femininity.
"...Since it is not, I will state that yes, your removal of your facial hair makes it that much more difficult for other women who have facial hair to opt out of removal..."
At the same time, another woman's refusal to take androgens in order to grow facial hair in the first place in order to display it also makes it just as difficult for other women who have facial hair to opt out of removal.
Likewise, when I was a preteen and felt like a freak because I didn't see any other girls around me with facial hair, seeing girls who didn't grow it in the first place affected my self-esteem just as much as seeing girls who removed it affected my self-esteem (and that was more than seeing models in the media who didn't have it affected my self-esteem). This was especially true since I couldn't always tell the difference! Sure, at recess one of the Italian-American girls said she waxed her arms (my guess was she removed facial hair too) and in response one of the Korean-American girls said she didn't grow arm hair (my guess was she didn't grow facial hair either), but I couldn't be sure if the Irish-American girls all didn't grow facial hair or all removed it or some did one and some did the other (I could be only sure that they weren't showing up in class with facial hair).
So, how could I say one way to voluntarily comply with this aspect of compulsory femininity (removal) was any worse than another (accepting one's face the way it naturally is) when they both had the same effect on another girl who lacked the opt-out choice (me)?
For that matter, for all I know you're one of the women who refuses to grow facial hair. If so, would it be fair for me to complain about you making it that much more difficult for other women who have facial hair to opt out of removal? Or would it be unfair for me to complain about that, instead of complaining about some jerks actually targeting women and girls who don't fit the stereotype for harassment, ostracization, etc.?
"...Any woman who walks around with a beard in the US will be stared at at best, probably be on the receiving end of multiple rude comments from strangers, and maybe even be assaulted for having facial hair at some point..."
Yeah, I got harassed a lot when I was 10 years old and went to school with a blonde beard and moustache (I was stupid enough to listen to my mother's just-bleach-don't-shave advice).
"...(think that's unlikely? you were clearly never assaulted for looking different.)..."
I don't think that's unlikely at all, and I know I'm just lucky that I wasn't physically assaulted for looking different.
"...A choice is not truly a choice unless it can be made without fear of harassment, violence, or docked pay..."
Exactly, I totally agree!
"...On the other hand, there are plenty of women in the US who have the option of never wearing make-up. ..."
Yes. For starters, their faces already meet the no-acne standards even if they don't put on a layer of foundation.
"...Those women who are able to opt out but continue to opt in make it that much more difficult for other women who do not have that choice to gain it."
Including the ones who "opt in" by default. For example, suppose a woman has a face that's naturally zitless.
She's probably able to opt out by trying to clog her pores (or at least using special effects makeup to add the appearance of pimples). If she instead continues to "opt in," that makes it that much more difficult for other women who don't already have the choice to show their facial acne in public (instead of using concealer, staying at home, taking anti-acne drugs, wearing niqab, etc.) to gain the choice.
Unfortunately, soap doesn't work for some of us. I do wear foundation because washing my face doesn't help. I don't think this means I've been bought by The Man (okay, maybe a little for being embarassed about it in the first place), but that I have really bad skin.
Ok, I have to ask. What is so wrong with combination skin?
Note: this is a genuine enquiry from someone who just doesn't get it.
because i have allergies to dust mites, i have sensitive/combination skin. when i was a teenager, i would get acne so severe it would physically hurt and often bleed, not to mention i still have scars on my face to this day, and i'm almost 30. but other places on my face could get uncomfortably dry, especially in the arizona summer. just last month, i had an allergic reaction to some facial sunscreen that caused me to break out in a rash on my nose and mouth, even though i applied the sunscreen all over my face. the rash felt like i had gotten a severe sunburn and then scraped it off with a rasp.
THIS is why i started wearing (hypoallergenic) makeup and continue to do so, without apology.
Except for cases like baddesign's, combination skin is mostly an invention of the cosmetics industry. Almost everybody has more oil on some certain parts of their face than on other parts. Voila, combination skin.
What's wrong with normal skin is what I want to know. People have pores, hairs, zits, wrinkles, it's NORMAL. When did it become so heinous for these things to show?
But "bad" skin by whose definition? Oil (at least some) is healthy. So how did you decide that your skin is "bad" necessarily? Probably from the messages you received from the media, advertising, etc., and as you were growing up.
It is definately true that as girls grow into women, they become more self conscious of thier beauty image. I think this due to the social messages young girls are told through the media about feminine beauty
-Nikki-
I totally am feeling these same sentiments right now (and I'm 27). I just started a somewhat corporate job, and started off trying to "make a good impression" - wearing heels (instead of my almost always Birkenstocks), makeup, and fixing my hair. I soon realized that I prefer staying in bed an extra half hour than primping. Maybe I look unprofessional, but I don't have big bags under my eyes :)
I got my (frizzy, big) hair cut recently at a salon in Atlanta, where I have lived almost all of my life. The stylist used a straightener on my hair and asked if I used one regularly. When I responded that I'd never used one, she was shocked. She added, "Welcome to Atlanta." Ummmmm, thanks? I've lived here longer than you have? Forgive me for flying in the face of the dress code for straight hair in a city known for it's ridiculous humidity.
I think the main thing I've been struggling with in getting ready for work is that I actually feel more grown-up and professional when I primp. I'm working on figuring out if that's me or if that's society's ingrained messages in my brain. Thoughts?
"I think the main thing I've been struggling with in getting ready for work is that I actually feel more grown-up and professional when I primp. I'm working on figuring out if that's me or if that's society's ingrained messages in my brain. Thoughts?"
For me, I definitely feel more grown-up and professional when I go through the routine, but I feel considerably less like me. It's frustrating, because it makes me feel that my 'natural' self is somehow not actually an adult, even though I think I'm reasonably mature. This inability to reconcile who I think I am with who I see in the mirror makes me think it really is more a product of socialization.
Hmmm, good point. I've been working with my therapist lately on trying to realize that I'm an adult and to empower myself. I'll definitely mention this in our next session. Thanks for the insight!
I wonder if feeling like a kid is a common thing for women? What with women having to be 'youthful' in order to be sexy/pretty and being called 'girl' no matter how old you are. I think you're on to something, ladies.
Last night I was watching NOVA and at one point they showed a press briefing where President Lyndon B Johnson had announced the cancelation of the manned outerspace labrotory (MOL) and referred to the 12 astronauts who were between 30 and 40 years old, and had ranks of Marjor, Lt Colonel, and Colonel as being "good boys."
My point is that the usage of dimunitive titles and names can only make you feel childish if you want it to.
Melissa, I feel the same way. I work in an academic library, so the dress code is pretty lax. I can wear anything from a suit to jeans and a t-shirt and I wouldn't really stick out as being over or under dressed. Given this situation, you'd think I would be able to find a happy medium.
I think the reason I tend to dress more nicely has to do with how I'm treated when I do. When I dress up, comb my hair, etc, people treat me more like faculty; when I dress down, I get treated like an undergrad. I'm willing to admit that some of this has to do with the way I feel about myself (i.e. I'm sure I give off a more confident/knowledgeable vibe when I'm dressed nicely because I feel better about myself), but I'm sure I didn't come up with the associations on my own.
I'm 27 an I still totally don't feel like a grown-up. It's also true that most of the women that I've worked with do not primp up- they wear casual business dress and maybe a little make up. Which is even more that I do- I'd rather pull something over my head and run out the door. Althought I admit that sometimes I do dress up a little sometimes just because it's fun or I feel like it- but at post that amounts to wearing a nice skirt and not pants. It's also not practical to wear high heals and then try to run after the bus.
Despite having managed to fight my way into behaving like a grown-up in a lot of ways (I've caved on makeup, for instance), I will never ever ever get my hair to behave the way people seem to think it should.
UM...wow. This is basically me. That's why I love feministing, so much of what I feel isn't actually particular to me or my struggle; countless women feel this way everyday. It makes the whole thing way better to bare, quite honestly.
So yes, I do indeed understand and commiserate, as one who is quite literally on the cusp of my 20s and, though unafraid of the more stereotypical elements of growing up: responsibility, etc, I struggle myself with this dilemma. I've been engaging in summer research for the past two months, my first foray into the graduate realm, and it's been very difficult for me bridge this gap between myself (comfy sweats, wearing my hair natural - i.e. an afro/incredibly curly, a slight goth addiction, feminist) and the reality of academia and professionalism. Hell, I read comic books for godssake! (sorry, bit of rant there)
At what point does fitting in to get success equivocate selling out? When have you lost yourself, or any chance of respecting yourself, for folding so easily to social norms? Those are the questions I am posed, and I battle with the reality that my conceptualization of femininity is clearly not reflective of the dominant society - but does that make it any less important? Heels and concealer do not make a woman, not to me, but in the world we head into, they do "make" a successful, respected woman. And for all that may not suit my comfort zone, my feminist beliefs, or my own life choices, it doesn't make it any less true.
So, with this quandary, I can only say that the likelihood of societal standards of beauty and professionalism bending to the whim of me, or, as sad as I am to say it, you - are incredibly unlikely. At some point conformity is the only option, at least, externally. For me, my one comfort is that out of the professional, public sphere, I'll always be myself, regardless of the face I don (comic books and all).
Sorry I can't be more insightful or inspiring, but it's all I've got, as one clueless "kid" to another.
"...I've been engaging in summer research for the past two months, my first foray into the graduate realm, and it's been very difficult for me bridge this gap between myself (comfy sweats, wearing my hair natural - i.e. an afro/incredibly curly, a slight goth addiction, feminist) and the reality of academia and professionalism. Hell, I read comic books for godssake! (sorry, bit of rant there)..."
I just want to chime in with the fact that personally I can't remember seeing Afros, Goth genres, and feminism as somehow not "academic" or "professional" and I learned half my life ago that some comics are actually literary stuff for adults.
Now I wanna know which Goth and/or comic books you'd recommend. :D
Ya know I've been interviewing lately to find a job ( here in Montreal), and it seems more and more places are adopting a casual (jeans)dress code- not the majority, but still.I wonder if this means a change of mindset- that they care about what's inside your head and not what you wear.
I love having the option to dress more casually, whether or not one chooses to do so. The funny thing is, I work is a traditionally very image-conscious industry, and as a lower-level support staff member, I've been free to dress how I want. Heck, some of the assistants wear sweats to work (although those are men...hmm). While I normally like to dress up a little more in an effort to "dress for the job you want," I really do appreciate that if some days I'm running low on laundry or feeling tired, jeans and a T-shirt will not be looked down upon.
"...I wonder if this means a change of mindset- that they care about what's inside your head and not what you wear."
That would be cool. :)
Also, maybe it means a changing of the guard even if very rarely an individual worker changes his or her own mindset?
I had the impression that the suit-preferring mindset is more common among older workers than among younger ones and the casual-preferring mindset is more common among younger workers than among older ones. So, as workers in one generation who rank highly and set policies retire and workers in the next generation get promoted to replace these retirees...
Most of my cohort have managed to extend our adolescence into our mid-late 20's.
Oh man me too. I just looked at my driver's license photos from when I was 16, 18, and 21 side by side and I look exactly the same in all of them! It's eery. Maybe I'll grow up some day, but right now I'm pretty happy being/looking like a kid. Working in a research lab has it's benefits given that no one cares whether you look professional.
Cank speaks the truth! I don't wear makeup on a regular occasion, just glitter b/c i still like to be shiny!
Your post is beautiful and really sad. I know what you are feeling very very strongly and all I can do is tell you that there are groups of people who will welcome you with open arms- shiny face, no make up, and all!
I think we all feel this as we are growing up. I personally have felt that way for the past two years (I'm 18) I am still sturggling with it. I do work in a corporate setting as a secretary (its the highest paying job I can get with only a high school diploma)and have to dress in a corporate way. I will leave school where I am wearing my casual wear and go to having to pair my skirts with a more professional top and heels. I feel like a little girl playing dress up when I am in those clothes but I feel like a confident grown young woman when I'm in flats and t-shirts with those same skirts
I'm about the same age as you (the big 2-0 coming up in a couple months), and I understand your struggle, although mine has not been exactly the same. I've worn makeup for several years now, and I've lately wondered if I enjoy putting on makeup because it makes me feel beautiful by society's standards, or if I'm really enjoying myself. I've lately compromised by having lots of fun with my eye makeup--doing unusual color combinations or maybe more than you usually see on a person. I like it because I'm using something for my own personal expression that might be used to maintain stereotypical standards of beauty.
I understand the struggle. In fact, just this morning a friend and I were discussing why, when, and in what volume we wore makeup. I've never been one for more than the absolute basics, and she has found that as she grows more confident, she uses less. It seems like the way to go is to figure how much (if any) makes you feel more like you, and go with that. Most employers will probably accept you the way you are.
I'm "technically" an adult (18), and even though I have not been interviewed for any job that would require fancy clothing I have had to "dress up" for job interviews. I hate having to abandon my doc martins for "more womanly" clothing. I hate having to abandon my plain oxford button up shirts for "more feminine tops".
Ok, its not really that big of a deal. I only did five interviews and they didn't last very long, but the collective experience of it all had a weird impression on me.
What is going to happen to me after I* finish college? Am I going to have to repeat that process? Am I* going to have to dress like that at work?
I mean, I was applying to work at Metropolitan Market, Barnes and Nobel, two local fancy restaurants and fancy catering company. While those are all considered "nice" places they are not exactly places where employees make tons of cash.
What is going to happen when I* apply to higher-paying jobs?
* I mean "I" in a collective, what is going to happen to everyone who does not conform to beauty standards sense. Not just for me personally.
But yeah, WONDERFUL post!
my experience, both as an interviewer and an interviewee, is that there are "more formal" ways to dress in a variety of styles, and that is acceptable on a job interview. to me, it shows diligence and respect to dress more formally for a job interview than one would for everyday activity, but i understand that people have different styles and personalities. i've worked with people who are more punk, or more stereotypically corporate, or more up to date on fashion, and there's never been a problem as long as everyone dresses in their more formal attire for the office (unless it's friday).
It depends A LOT on the local culture at your company, but a button down oxford for women is probably going to be ok. Hope that makes the professional future seem a little less bleak.
Wow. I can't relate to this at all. (Or rather, when I felt schloads of presssure to put on makeup and look nice was when I was 14/15, and I think it's lessoned slightly since then though never gone away completely.)
I think growing into a woman DOES carry a lot of stresses -but for me those are more things relating to dangers of dating like sexual violence, becoming more aware of instances when you're treated as different from men in the workplace, etc.
I just turned 21 and have very similar feelings. Its not just about looks though, I also feel anxious about behaviour, how do adults become adults?
I think being adult just comes to you gradually, same as being a teenager. I think I had a sort-of-realisation moment while washing dishes in my flat soon after I started working. Not that living on your own, or buying groceries, or paying bills makes you an adult. And then there are times when I still feel like such a kid, esp when I have to visit relatives or married people and have nothing to contribute to conversations that involve buying houses, investing money, having kids. Oh and when I am stopped at movie halls and asked if I am 18 or not! I am 24.
Re make-up, I have never used any. But now that I am getting married in a few months, I am getting quite a lot of advice on wearing make-up on that day. Why? For the photographs! That sounds so utterly ridiculous to me, I don't bother replying.
Since I graduated from college, I definitely noticed that I was more image conscienous and worried about not having a significant other---it was like I was so busy before with my studies and enjoying high school/college life, I had no need to worry about anything else!
On the positive end, now that I have a job and I'm making money, it's kinda fun shopping for nice clothes and make up--and going on vacations!
I work in a store that caters mainly to professional women, so I'm expected to dress up for work, and make-up is not mandatory, but strongly suggested. Honestly, I love it. I just turned 20, but I really feel like myself, whether I'm wearing skinny jeans and a casual top, or a LBD and a jacket. That doesn't mean that I always dress ultra-feminine for work. I've found ways to look professionable and fashionable, while playing with more masculine styles, like boyfriend jackets, cuffed blouses, masculine belts. Yes, there is pressure in most professional environments to dress professionally, but with a little imagination, you can find a style that works for you, if not on a day-to-day basis, at least on a 9-to-5, 5-days-a-week basis.
I am also turning twenty in a few months. Lately, I have been asking myself, 'how do I feel?' 'how am I "supposed to feel by societal standards?' 'am I subject to cultural norms now that I am a "woman" ?' I feel incredibly powerful at this age - moreso than I have ever felt in my life. While I feel my body softening and settling and my facial features a bit sharper, a bit more defined, I am still plaugued by how youthful (in the- I am incredibly self-reliant in my living, schooling, financial responsibility but not at all considering including makeup and high heels in my daily regimen or considering kids any time soon- way) I feel. I love wearing grungy plaid shirts and ripped jeans and I am not a fan of underwear and bras (Am I the only one?).
Recently, as in yesterday, I brought up the subject to my significant other of 3 years, because I know he finds underwear incredibly sexy. He said he was used to me not wearing it, and doesn't mind, but he said I would be sexier with it, that he would do sexier things to me if he knew I was wearing it. This began to spiral into a conversation about how, if only I wore makeup to "frame" my face, I would look "top-notch" (direct quotes), and that I won't have such a taut and youthful face forever. Now, I began to rant on how that hurt my feelings because I thought I was beautiful without makeup, and how it is a double standard for him to think I need makeup. He is a little of four years older than I, so I honestly do feel the pressure to appear older (his view of women are his friends-in their mid to late 20's who wear makeup and heels and have totally unblemished hair). I am really stuck because he has never so strongly implied that he would like me to wear makeup, and now I am really confused at how I should approach my older age. Will I be frowned upon by society if I don't submit to their totally unrealistic and time-consuming standards? Should I compromise for my boyfriend? Should I even care?
Gross. That's not an acceptable way to treat/talk to someone you're supposed to care for. If I told my girlfriend to wear makeup she'd laugh at me or beat me up.
Yeah, telling your significant other to wear more make-up is a big NO in my book. If my boyfriend told me that I'd look at him like he was insane.
I'm in the arts, and my worth as a professional is judged by my artistic skill, definitely not by whether I look 'mature' or am conforming to somebody else's beauty standards. I'm grateful everyday for this.
That's not nice of your significant other. I'd be pretty upset. Your SO should make you feel comfortable in your skin and good about the way you look because they are your SO and are attracted to you.
That's not nice of your significant other. I'd be pretty upset. Your SO should make you feel comfortable in your skin and good about the way you look because they are your SO and are attracted to you.
As someone who never felt too pressured to wear concealer or heels, I don't really know if I can offer words of wisdom or comfort. I can tell you though, that oil in your skin can be a good thing. Skin that is too dry (skin that does not have enough oil) is more easily damaged.
Take that as you will. I don't know how qualified I am to give advice on progressing to adulthood... given that I just got my B.A. but somehow I'm still living with the folks, working a poxy part-time job and have no car. It's like I never even graduated high school. But I think being an adult is really all about how you feel, and it's something that happens slowly.
I actually get a lot of pressure at home to NOT do things like wear heels. --Which is kind of a drag for me. I love 'em, I'm 5'2 and sickly looking, but standing in my 4 inch t-straps I feel like Queen-Bitch of the World.
As a feminist I am really shocked at the type of language used in these comments. For a long time I felt quite uneasy of my love for high fashion, sky high heals, flashy make-up, and push-up bras. This uneasiness did not come from the voyeuristic tendencies of men, but instead the critics from other feminists. I felt like I couldn't be a radical feminist AND be a fan of Vogue. Then I GREW UP and realized that I should have the right to choose to present myself in the way that I love instead of getting judged by my sisters. I do not wear the things I wear or like the things I like because of some patriarchal conspiracy, I am too educated for that. I am also not naive and know that their are women out there who do not feel as free to make choices about many aspects of their lives, including clothing. With that said, I shouldn't feel like any less of a feminist because of my choices just like a women who would rather wear a T-shirt than a suit should be able to choose for herself.
Although I now am faced with the amazing blessing of having a feminist boyfriend who compliments me when I leave my hair wild, face natural, and legs unshaved.
Lastly, I think it is wrong to think that men can just get up and go to work without having to primp or pay attention to their appearance. They too have standards of beauty. A man cannot walk into a boardroom in a T-shirt and sandals also. Men with acne is just as a no-no as women. They have issues with body image just like us. Yes, workplace bias leans towards the masculine side and yes a distinguished wise man will always beat out an assertive gray wrinkly old bitty, but at least we are now sitting at the table instead of taking notes in the background. The further that we go the more we can change the standards.
I look forward to the day that every individual can choose how to express themselves without feeling pressures from ANYONE. Being a kid was the most pressured and confusing time in my life, and I am so relieved that I am an adult.
"I do not wear the things I wear or like the things I like because of some patriarchal conspiracy, I am too educated for that."
I think you have underestimated the pervasiveness of patriarchal standards. Do you think you would like standing on stilts, forcing your breasts into an unnatural position, and covering your face in paint if you did not get positive feedback from society when you did those things?
I have no trouble believing that you like those things. People like things that make them feel good about themselves. When people complement you, you feel good. When you achieve a look that approaches what others consider beautiful they will pay you those compliments. I would suggest that your liking these things would not have occurred without a lifetime of positive reinforcement from society at large.
Certainly you can still enjoy those things, but wearing them isn't a feminist choice. You know the affect the prevalence of those images has on other women, it is unrealistic for you to expect other women to celebrate your choice in this regard. Instead I would suggest that dressing to a patriarchal beauty standard is an 'unfeminist guilty pleasure.' It is not morally wrong but nor is it doing anything to improve gender equity.
Feminism means thinking about the results of your actions. Sometimes it means recognising how your actions, wants, even the things you enjoy have been influenced by your socialisation. Maybe it also means making hard choices for the benefit of others.
"Instead I would suggest that dressing to a patriarchal beauty standard is an 'unfeminist guilty pleasure.' It is not morally wrong but nor is it doing anything to improve gender equity."
Doing something that doesn't necessarily improve gender equality does NOT mean that it should be viewed as a "guilty pleasure" or as "unfeminist". And it doesn't mean that it necessarily contributes to INequality.
"You know the affect the prevalence of those images has on other women, it is unrealistic for you to expect other women to celebrate your choice in this regard."
I really don't think Jillian was looking for celebration but simply for non-judgement and for acceptance. I think that it IS unfeminist to judge other women for their choices, even if they are influenced by society. ALL choices are influenced by society in some way. Jillian obviously has educated herself and still likes to wear make-up. I feel the same way.
what Jillian said was:
" I shouldn't feel like any less of a feminist because of my choices just like a women who would rather wear a T-shirt than a suit should be able to choose for herself."
And you decided to take an opportunity to call her (and other women like her) personal preferences "unfeminist".
We all exist within context, and often that context IS patriarchal. You exist within that context as well. None of us are immune. Instead of pretending that somehow all things deemed as "positive" by patriarchal standards are automatically horrible choices for women, it might behoove you to grant women some agency and validity - and recognize that there is no black and white here, but complexities that require understanding and acceptance.
"Doing something that doesn't necessarily improve gender equality does NOT mean that it should be viewed as a "guilty pleasure" or as "unfeminist". And it doesn't mean that it necessarily contributes to INequality."
In principle I agree. We know that the profligacy of a message does have an effect. Yet I wouldn't suggest that stay at home mothers are engaged in an unfeminist activity because they aren't engaged in the workforce.
They why relates to your next paragraph...
"We all exist within context, and often that context IS patriarchal."
We agree on this but Jillian said the opposite.
"You exist within that context as well. None of us are immune. Instead of pretending that somehow all things deemed as "positive" by patriarchal standards are automatically horrible choices for women [...]"
I don't suggest that all things deemed as positive by the patriarchy are bad. I do say that the beauty culture is though. I do say that high heels are bad for you - countless medical associations agree with me on this. I do say that dressing to enhance sexuality (a la the push-up bra) is a bad message to send other women when it id done en mass - most of us seem to agree on this - and I do say that liking your face better after it has been 'prettied-up' is ultimately bad for your self-esteem.
"[...] it might behoove you to grant women some agency and validity - and recognize that there is no black and white here, but complexities that require understanding and acceptance."
It's not black and white. I can see that, it's difficult to decide where the line is when it is so blurred. Yet I think it is important to challenge each of us on our positions of comfort.
I know a guy who despite understanding why chivalry is bad continues to engage in it because 'he gets more good reactions than bad.' It's good for him, because he likes the results, despite being bad for women as a whole. He also has agency, his choice is also valid, but how do you feel about it? Would you criticise it?
ugh, I'm so sorry. I replied to you but it didn't come out that way - to see my response, just scroll down a bit :)
Yep, after the next 2 parent posts. Got it. :)
why is feminists get berated for wearing what they want? Some women enjoy wearing heels. Some women like the way bras make their breasts feel (I am included in that category my breasts are very large and wearing a bra gives them more support and they do not feel as heavy as when I am not wearing one). Some women like wearing makeup because it gives them another place to have self expression. Feminism to me means having all choices available to you that there could possibly be, and choosing what works best for you.
I feel the discussion/debate with holmes is sufficient on this topic for now, but I'm responding to you to clarify a point. It was push-up bras I was criticising not all bras.
A bra is a utilitarian garment, for many it improves comfort or improves their enjoyment of sport. A very empowering garment for women I would have thought, especially when compared to the garments it superseded. The push-up bra is to be distinguished from it because it is designed to enhance a woman's sex appeal by (temporarily) reshaping her body to fit a beauty ideal.
If I may ask, what do you find so great about high heel shoes? Nobody has yet been able to give me an answer to this question that doesn't rely on the societal image of these shoes. And when they clearly reduce mobility and have injury and fitness issues associated with them... well, it is hard to see why every feminist doesn't awaken to the implications of the symbolism (if not the practical implications) of a movement restricting garment marketed only at women. (And marketed through the sole strategy of making her look good!) Wearing high heel shoes says 'I care enough about my sex appeal to restrict my mobility.' I don't think this is a good message for a feminist to send other women.
And now I'm beginning to go over the ground already covered in the other posts, so I'll leave it there.
Personally, I like high heels because I enjoy how they look. I like to splurge on nice, well made shoes, and I can appreciate the work that went into designing and making them, and wearing something that I find beautiful makes me happy. I expect a lot of people feel the same way - whether their "beautiful" item is a tee from their favourite concert or rubber boots or a pencil skirt.
I wear what makes me happy. Some days it's messy hair and old jeans and no makeup and some days it's immaculately applied red lipstick and my favourite cobalt blue mary jane heels.
I would ask you to look a little deeper. What is it that you like about the way heels look? Is it something that you could get from a more sensible shoe or is it something inherit to heels? If the latter, where is that grounded?
Consider that foot binding was also considered beautiful by the women and girls who undertook it (not just the men). It took a government ban, under pressure from the West for the practice to be ended in China. Without that pressure many would have chosen to continue that practice, and the profligacy of it would have meant it would still be practised today. How would you feel if you saw a community of women with their feet bound, would your reaction be to appreciate the beauty they saw in it?
To me high heels share the same attributes as foot binding albeit on a lesser scale.
I feel your pain...and frustration.
I'm 21 and haven't worn make-up at all. I live at home with my parents while going to school and I'm currently looking for a job.
Anyway, a few weeks ago my Mom bought me some blush and eye-liner and said "You need to look nice" because we were going out to eat at a fancy restaurant. I said "I do look nice" (not that I'm vain, I just think I look nice the way I am). Then my Mom said, "No one is going to hire you to work if you don't wear make-up"
After my Mom tried to get me to wear make-up, I told her that I wouldn't--and I was absolutely serious and looked her in the eye. After that, she's never spoken of it since.
Just keep your head up and try to ignore all the shit coming your way. :) Once you make your stance firm, people will start leaving you alone.
Maybe it's where I live (the southwest, land of rainbow sandals and shorts), but I'm not sure I've felt the pressure to the same extent to look more "grown-up" by applying more make up and changing my style even though I am now a college graduate. But we're a little more laid back out here.
I don't think you need to wear make up and heels to get a job. You need to look professional, but you could substitute the heels for a nice pair of flats and forgo the make-up as long as your hair looks kept. I don't get the impression it's much different for my male peers. They need to have a nice hair cut, smell nice, tuck in their shirt, a clean shaven face, and have to wear a tie.
I haven't been unemployed since I was 16, and every job I've had I've dressed up for the interview (unless told otherwise) no matter what the pay was and have adhered to the dress code. The dress code has never ever dictated that I wear make-up or uncomfortable clothing or shoes. I've never been told by an employer I need to put on more make-up or wear heels. I often do put on a bit of make-up and always fix my hair if I'm working in a more professional environment. I don't think it makes me aware of beauty standards or that I'm doing it to appear older but because it's important to me to both do my job and look the part. I feel like any pressures I have to put on make up or adhere to whatever standards are pressures I put on myself not pressures my employers have ever put on me.
The point I am trying to make is that I don't think beauty standards and professional standards are the same thing. You can look very professional without wearing skirts, heels, or make up.
I dress differently for my job. I dress differently when I attend class. I dress differently when I go hiking or work out, and so do men.
"I don't suggest that all things deemed as positive by the patriarchy are bad. I do say that the beauty culture is though. I do say that high heels are bad for you - countless medical associations agree with me on this. [...] and I do say that liking your face better after it has been 'prettied-up' is ultimately bad for your self-esteem."
but see, this is exactly what I mean when I talk about acceptance and understanding. A lot of us do things or LIKE things that others may deem as "bad" for us. Just because the judgement comes form other women doesn't make it any less demeaning as when it comes in paternalistic notions of "helping" or "protecting" women from their "bad" choices. So, high heels are bad for me. Okay, so are french fries and living in NYC (exhaust/smog) and not exercising.. I guess I don't see where it's any one else's position to judge others based on what they prefer, *especially* when it is another women who has clearly educated herself and considers herself a feminist.. I don't think that it is the position of feminism to "police" other women and tell them that they are doing things that are bad for them. Instead it should be to educate so that one can make INFORMED decisions. Just like I have, and it seems Jillian has - I know high heels are bad, I know about beauty culture, I have B.A. and an M.A. in Gender Studies. But I choose to wear make-up and high heels because I like them!
I like my face when I have rouge on my lips and cheeks but my self-esteem does not suffer because of it. I also like my face bare. Of course, I see your point that other girls and women certainly do suffer consequences of beauty culture - All I'm saying is that instead of reversing the "standard" and thinking feminists are "bad" for wearing make--up, I think there needs to be more choices, informed decisions, and non-judgement of each other. I would never judge a woman who chooses to never wear make-up or heels, etc. And for her to judge me is just simply unproductive.
"Yet I think it is important to challenge each of us on our positions of comfort."
You're absolutely right about this - that's why I'm really appreciating the discussion that we're having. In no way do I mean to convey that we should all remain comfortable and uninformed, that is not what I'm saying at all.
"I know a guy who despite understanding why chivalry is bad continues to engage in it because 'he gets more good reactions than bad.' It's good for him, because he likes the results, despite being bad for women as a whole. He also has agency, his choice is also valid, but how do you feel about it? Would you criticise it?"
You know, at the risk of making this a tangent, I would say that depending on that the "act" of chivalry is, I wouldn't automatically criticize it, no. For an example, I would say that a man holding a door for me does not bother me. I also hold doors for other men and women and I think it's polite. Courtesy and acts of kindness/politeness are rare where I live (nyc) and I try to appreciate each one I come across, from either gender. Of course if his actions demeaned or degraded someone I would criticize it. And let me say - I appreciate the analogy, but I still disagree with the correlation that women personally choosing to wear make-up is "bad' for other women. Or for themselves..
I agree that informed choices are desirable.
"I don't think that it is the position of feminism to "police" other women and tell them that they are doing things that are bad for them."
Maybe not, yet we tell people when things are bad for them all the time. We tell people that smoking will kill them, we warn them about driving when tired, we warn them about the dangers of fatty foods.
When someone smokes we accept that they have made an informed decision (nowadays) because there is plenty of advertising as to the damaging affects on their health and the affects on those around them breathing in their second-hand smoke. But mostly we aren't happy about it.
Well, what about the women metaphorically breathing in second-hand beauty? Those who aren't educated to the dangers of wearing high-heeled shoes etc. Society isn't saying 'those things'll twist your ankles.' Society is saying 'those shoes make your ankles look so slim and sexy (and you need to have slim and sexy ankles).'
You see, my problem is that there is no equivalent of the anti-cigarette messages prevalent in society. If there was It'd be easier to reconcile these particular choices. But since there isn't, feminists choosing patriarchal beauty seems to me less like the cool kids doing cigarettes and more like the doctors smoking them instead.
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Regards the chivalry. We seem to have more in common on this point. I tend to think of chivalry as more like random kindness, and when men and women both engage in that type of behaviour then it is a positive force. The problem occurs when the kindness isn't random but when men apply it to women because they are women.
"Maybe not, yet we tell people when things are bad for them all the time. We tell people that smoking will kill them, we warn them about driving when tired, we warn them about the dangers of fatty foods."
Right - I see what you're saying here. And I agree completely. So as a smoker, I appreciate the campaigns that educate me on the health effects. I like the becomeanEx campaign, knowing it will be there for me when I decide to quit. The information is out there and that is good - I still smoke (which I acknowledge is horrible for me) and I try to be a respectful smoker - I smoke out my window or around other smokers. Regardless - when things cross the line of information and education to JUDGEMENT, that's when I get really upset/offended - when people might say things to put me down, when people come up to me on the street and say things like, oh, you know that's really bad for you. And it's patronizing and ridiculous. YES. I know it's bad for me. Okay.
I use this analogy because I do agree with you that there isn't a comparable source of information on beauty culture. And I do think there should be. I would LOVE it if gender studies was a requirement in high schools and this could be included. All I'm trying to say is that ideally, the form should be information and education, not judgement - not "oh, if you wear make-up you're totally a pawn of the patriarchy and bad for other women"...
Anyways, thank you for the discussion - - I really think we are aiming for the same kind of knowledge even if we have differing strategies and personal preferences. :)
"All I'm trying to say is that ideally, the form should be information and education, not judgement - not "oh, if you wear make-up you're totally a pawn of the patriarchy and bad for other women"..."
I appreciate your point. The impact of profligacy is a difficult issue to deal with in this context, there aren't easy answers.
"Anyways, thank you for the discussion - - I really think we are aiming for the same kind of knowledge even if we have differing strategies and personal preferences. :)"
Ditto. It's good to be able to have this type of debate. Thank you too.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. I totally empathize with the questions you are describing.
Girl, your problems are just beginning. The to wear make-up or not to wear make-up and otherwise conform to conventional standards of beauty is one of the easy questions.
The real issue at stake is how do thoughtful, caring, create a life for themselves in the real world and define success?
Frankly, we all need to find a way to exist in the real world, and most of us will do that as salaried workers in the professional realm. Most of us will perform a professional persona at work which may or may not include high heels, lipstick, makeup, designer handbags, and other delightful if not completely superfluous trappings of modern society.
My thought process has over time evolved to, well, I’m stuck here for 8 hours a day anyway, I might as well act and look in a way that enhances the work I am doing. I admittedly want to be respected by my coworkers. I am ambitious, and I want to move up the corporate ladder.
I didn’t always feel this way, but I realized that there are benefits increasing your power and resources available. I think that as a feminist community we need to stop seeing the issue as black and white and recognize there are multiple ways to define success. I thought what feminism was fighting for were more freedoms for women, so that you may exercise the agency to never fight shine, whereas I may exercise the agency to powder my nose every day.
I completely understand. I turned 20 this year and will graduate from college next year but I still wear sneakers, cute t-shirts, and no make-up. Don't worry too much about it.
I have a question; what if you actually like make up and shaving? (personally I think guys should shave too) I think both men and women should try to look nice when they go out. Don't get me wrong, I certainly don't want men cat-calling me or thinking I'm just a pretty face, but I do want to look nice. Not really sexy, but just some concealer, a little mascara and a dab of lip gloss. Does that make me an anti-feminist?